Top 5 biggest Football clubs in the world.

manutddjw said:
I live in Canada, where it’s a huge melting pot and we have access to almost all the big European leagues on tv. I’ve rarely ran into people who actively support Bayern and watch their games or even watch the Bundesliga. I can honestly say I know more Celtic fans than I do Bayern fans. Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea are easily more followed than Bayern by a wide margin here.
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Bayern are big in Eastern and Central Europe.

You need to take into account that there's a ton of countries east and south-east of Germany that don't have a strong league of their own and Bayern are the closest big club to them. That's quite a big market.

Growing up in different countries in Eastern Europe in 90s in 00s, the two most popular leagues were Seria A and Bundesliga, and most of the kids supported Bayern or one of the big three Italian clubs. Outside of that there were only some Real Madrid and United fans and a tiny number of Barca and Arsenal fans and that was it. This only started to change in the late 2000s with the Messi-Ronaldo era and the growth of the Premier League. So maybe eventually the Bayern support will decline in Eastern Europe too, but so far Bayern still draws ton of fans from that part of Europe.

When it comes to Africa, Asia and North America, Bayern does seem to have little support there, and this will hurt them in the long run too.

I think that in 20 years time, it's reasonable to expect that Bayern won't be as big anymore and might end up as Ajax.
 
LA BOMBA said:
Bayern are big in Eastern and Central Europe.

You need to take into account that there's a ton of countries east and south-east of Germany that don't have a strong league of their own and Bayern are the closest big club to them. That's quite a big market.

Growing up in different countries in Eastern Europe in 90s in 00s, the two most popular leagues were Seria A and Bundesliga, and most of the kids supported Bayern or one of the big three Italian clubs. Outside of that there were only some Real Madrid and United fans and a tiny number of Barca and Arsenal fans and that was it. This only started to change in the late 2000s with the Messi-Ronaldo era and the growth of the Premier League. So maybe eventually the Bayern support will decline in Eastern Europe too, but so far Bayern still draws ton of fans from that part of Europe.

When it comes to Africa, Asia and North America, Bayern does seem to have little support there, and this will hurt them in the long run too.

I think that in 20 years time, it's reasonable to expect that Bayern won't be as big anymore and might end up as Ajax.
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I think that's a fair take on it. I am not sure about the last part though as Bayern's might in Germany will ensure financial power I reckon but will be interesting to see how they address their commercial presence in other continents.
 
LA BOMBA said:
Bayern are big in Eastern and Central Europe.

You need to take into account that there's a ton of countries east and south-east of Germany that don't have a strong league of their own and Bayern are the closest big club to them. That's quite a big market.

Growing up in different countries in Eastern Europe in 90s in 00s, the two most popular leagues were Seria A and Bundesliga, and most of the kids supported Bayern or one of the big three Italian clubs. Outside of that there were only some Real Madrid and United fans and a tiny number of Barca and Arsenal fans and that was it. This only started to change in the late 2000s with the Messi-Ronaldo era and the growth of the Premier League. So maybe eventually the Bayern support will decline in Eastern Europe too, but so far Bayern still draws ton of fans from that part of Europe.

When it comes to Africa, Asia and North America, Bayern does seem to have little support there, and this will hurt them in the long run too.

I think that in 20 years time, it's reasonable to expect that Bayern won't be as big anymore and might end up as Ajax.
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I think we also have a respectable following in Japan and China. Especially after the 2002 World Cup. Oliver Kahn was incredibly popular over there.
 
Rojofiam said:
Milan's decline is bigger than United's and they don't have the fortune of playing in the Premier League so there's at least 10-13 clubs who they cannot really compete with on the transfer market: PL top 7, Real, Atletico, Barca, Bayern, PSG, I'd add Juventus as well + at least 15 more who they can compete with but not outspend, as basically every PL team can usually spend £100m+ in a transfer window.

Their short to medium term future also isn't looking bright at all, as both Juventus and Inter have considerably better managers than anyone AC Milan could get at this point, better squads, and more money at least in the case of Juventus. I don't get why you think they're getting back to where they belong, as they're incredibly unlikely to win a league title in the next 3-5 years.
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Because at the very least they're getting in the champions league consistently after winning the league a few years back. Like United, AC Milan simply belongs in the champions league. It's just one of those great historical clubs.

Also weren't they finishing in 9th or 10th place around ten years ago? Disgraceful for a club as special as that.
 
Rojofiam said:
If Bayern's last 15 years elevates them to the number 2 spot, why are Milan and Liverpool 3rd and 4th? Milan I think have 2 Scudettos since the turn of the millennium, last won the CL almost 20 years ago (and they're almost certain to go 20+ years without one) and Liverpool have 2 CLs and 1 PL title in 34 years. Neither are top 5 richest or have a top 5 biggest fanbase either.

Barca's 2005-2015 era is greater than any era Bayern, Liverpool, AC Milan, or United ever produced. How are they just 5th?

Why does United's 21 year period from 1992 to 2013 not matter as much as Bayern since 2009 until today?

What could Inter Milan possibly have over United?

Sorry but this seems like a personal preference rather than the real greatness and size of the clubs.
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I'm not actually sure on this. I think that we were as dominant domestically and in Europe in the mid-70s to mid-80s as Barca were during their golden period. I think they have us on the domestic cup count but we also bagged 1 or 2 UEFA cups. I could be wrong though, without checking.
 
With the structural changes in the game, a 5-years recency-bias top 5 is, possibly, the only relevant & accurate answer to the op… then:

Madrid
City
Liverpool
Bayern
Barcelona
 
Bepi said:
With the structural changes in the game, a 5-years recency-bias top 5 is, possibly, the only relevant & accurate answer to the op… then:

Madrid
City
Liverpool
Bayern
Barcelona
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No way is Liverpool ahead of Bayern and Barcelona even with recency bias.
 
Pascal Quiff said:
I'm not actually sure on this. I think that we were as dominant domestically and in Europe in the mid-70s to mid-80s as Barca were during their golden period. I think they have us on the domestic cup count but we also bagged 1 or 2 UEFA cups. I could be wrong though, without checking.
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I don't think football back then was even close to the level of modern day football. Sorry, but doing what Barca did and having a team like they did for example in 2011 is more impressive for me. It's difficult to compare eras for the reason I mentioned in my first sentence, but Barca had the greatest player of all time play for them for 17 years, won 4 CLs in that 9 year period from 2006 to 2015, won numerous league titles and dominated domestically over Real Madrid, also Guardiola revolutionized football and is the greatest tactical pioneer since Johan Cruyff. That La Masia golden generation not only produced Messi, but other all-timers like Iniesta, Puyol, Xavi, Busquets, and I'd list Piqué as well. It was simply the greatest mass integration of youth players into the first team in football history.

And even before and after that Barcelona's football history and legacy in unquestionable.
 
Theonas said:
I didn't say United were bigger as I don't know what criteria to use for that. I said United were more popular globally and a more recognizable brand globally. The reason for that is that United were the poster boys for the most popular league in the world at the time when the game became more globalized than ever and especially the Premier League. The German league has never enjoyed that kind of popularity in other continents.
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Exactly again, I thought it was pretty obvious.

Nowadays, more than ever, what makes a team be perceive Bigger it's the exposure, of course winning or not under such exposure will help or play against such perception.
Tradition and huge players will always help to increase such perception or even in the worse cases, at least keep a float the mere existance from a "global fame" point of view.
 
LA BOMBA said:
Bayern are big in Eastern and Central Europe.

You need to take into account that there's a ton of countries east and south-east of Germany that don't have a strong league of their own and Bayern are the closest big club to them. That's quite a big market.

Growing up in different countries in Eastern Europe in 90s in 00s, the two most popular leagues were Seria A and Bundesliga, and most of the kids supported Bayern or one of the big three Italian clubs. Outside of that there were only some Real Madrid and United fans and a tiny number of Barca and Arsenal fans and that was it. This only started to change in the late 2000s with the Messi-Ronaldo era and the growth of the Premier League. So maybe eventually the Bayern support will decline in Eastern Europe too, but so far Bayern still draws ton of fans from that part of Europe.

When it comes to Africa, Asia and North America, Bayern does seem to have little support there, and this will hurt them in the long run too.

I think that in 20 years time, it's reasonable to expect that Bayern won't be as big anymore and might end up as Ajax.
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Not bigger than Barca, Madrid, Italian teams or PL teams. In fact they're much smaller compared to Madrid, Barca, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, and the 3 Italians.
 
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Rojofiam said:
Not bigger than Barca, Madrid, Italian teams or PL teams. In fact they're much smaller compared to Madrid, Barca, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, and the 3 Italians.
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Maybe today but in the 90s and 00s Bayern were definitely more popular in Eastern Europe than almost any club. Real Madrid and Barcelona only exploded in popularity there during the Ronaldo-Messi era and United was the only PL club that used to have any big support before late 00s.

Bayern, Juve, Milan and Inter were the most popular Western clubs in Eastern Europe in the 90s and early 00s.
 
Rojofiam said:
I don't think football back then was even close to the level of modern day football. Sorry, but doing what Barca did and having a team like they did for example in 2011 is more impressive for me. It's difficult to compare eras for the reason I mentioned in my first sentence, but Barca had the greatest player of all time play for them for 17 years, won 4 CLs in that 9 year period from 2006 to 2015, won numerous league titles and dominated domestically over Real Madrid, also Guardiola revolutionized football and is the greatest tactical pioneer since Johan Cruyff. That La Masia golden generation not only produced Messi, but other all-timers like Iniesta, Puyol, Xavi, Busquets, and I'd list Piqué as well. It was simply the greatest mass integration of youth players into the first team in football history.

And even before and after that Barcelona's football history and legacy in unquestionable.
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Side note:
More than youth, I would say home grown and related to the global exposure it's talked here from an historical point of view, lots of other teams integrated in great numbers home grown players in the past, the thing it's that it wasn't a "global game". Clubs like River, Ajax and such.
Of course what Barca did with such exposure and success would make it look even more grand, but from a historically point of view, it wasn't the first or biggest time that a team had an almost entire team of home grown players. Even Real in the past had great teams with lots of Home Grown talent too.

The thing with La Masia nowadays it's that being a global game and even more after Messi, they are more capable of grabing more youngsters from around the globe than ever. Yet as a an academy, historically, they have a very distintive style but some of the ones that put them on the top of the map are players that do not "fit" entirely that style. So in many ways that thing of "La Masia " being the ultimate academy historically it's way over the top.
 
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Swoobs said:
Is there really a metric in measuring popularity? Based on social media you will have this. PSG and City are 4th and 6th respectively. If popular means bigger as some here have allured to, does that mean PSG and City are in the top 10 biggest clubs?

https://jobsinfootball.com/blog/most-supported-football-clubs-in-the-world/
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Social media captures the younger audiences but isn't the absolute metric to gauge popularity. A lot of people, myself included, aren't on social media, but are no less interested in our teams.
 
LA BOMBA said:
Maybe today but in the 90s and 00s Bayern were definitely more popular in Eastern Europe than almost any club. Real Madrid and Barcelona only exploded in popularity there during the Ronaldo-Messi era and United was the only PL club that used to have any big support before late 00s.

Bayern, Juve, Milan and Inter were the most popular Western clubs in Eastern Europe in the 90s and early 00s.
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In my experience, people still mainly supported the bigger domestic clubs in the 90s. Having a favourite from a western league was expanding rapidly, but still often a secondary thing. The decline in quality of domestic football causing a lot more to ignore it, or only have secondary interest started to take off around about late 90s/early 00s.
 
Juicy Juiced said:
No top 5 is serious without AC Milan 7 CL.
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Depends whether its historical or recent or a blend of both. Ac Milan have been a retirement team for a long time now. Personally i find it hard to rank Man Utd for this reason. We've been a laughing stock for a decade despite having the highest net spend of any club in the world. Biggest has to be balanced with best.
 
Tier 0
Real Madrid
Tier 1 - (hard to say which one is bigger than another).
Juve
Milan
Inter
Barca
Bayern
United
Liverpool
 
Honestly guys, as an Inter fan I gotta say I have the _utmost_ respect for Manchester United football club.

It's a tremendously iconic club, with peculiar epic tales that feels like dreams, or heartfelt tragedies - Busby Babes, Fergie Fledgings, Law, Best, Charlton, Cantona, Schmeichel, that '99 comeback, a quarter of a century with one manager, Old Trafford, that striking red shirt on white or black shorts...

You've got all of what a fan can desire from his club, and if I was born into Utd I'd feel so fekin proud about it all.

But.
This thirst of being recognized as the overall absolute second best club behind Real, that devalues it all a bit honestly. :/

I don't see any metric where you set yourself apart clearly on any of the other big clubs in that pack.

(other than the rise in global popularity that you experienced since the the turn of the century, as it happened that you were on a dominant league cycle when the PL was being marketed aggressively in untapped regions)

Trophy wise, 20 leagues, 3 CL, 1 CWC, 1 EL don't set you apart.
Consistency wise, you're a bit like my Inter, epic teams and golden eras interspersed by long patches of mediocre results.
Stars wise, again lots of great players and icons but not so different than all the others.

Teams wise, this is the chain of iconic, elite team of modern football, from the eighties to now
Paisley's Liverpool, Trap's Juve, Sacchi's Milan, Cruyff's Dream Team, Capello's Invincibles, LVG's kids, Lippi's Marines, Treble Utd (maybe?), Los Galacticos,
Ancelotti's Milan, Dinho's Barca, Ronaldo Utd, Pep's Barca, Josè's Inter, Heynecks' Bayern, MSN Barca, Zidane's Real, Pep's City, Klopp's Liverpool...

It's not that you stand out from the others.
 
LA BOMBA said:
Bayern are big in Eastern and Central Europe.

You need to take into account that there's a ton of countries east and south-east of Germany that don't have a strong league of their own and Bayern are the closest big club to them. That's quite a big market.

Growing up in different countries in Eastern Europe in 90s in 00s, the two most popular leagues were Seria A and Bundesliga, and most of the kids supported Bayern or one of the big three Italian clubs. Outside of that there were only some Real Madrid and United fans and a tiny number of Barca and Arsenal fans and that was it. This only started to change in the late 2000s with the Messi-Ronaldo era and the growth of the Premier League. So maybe eventually the Bayern support will decline in Eastern Europe too, but so far Bayern still draws ton of fans from that part of Europe.

When it comes to Africa, Asia and North America, Bayern does seem to have little support there, and this will hurt them in the long run too.

I think that in 20 years time, it's reasonable to expect that Bayern won't be as big anymore and might end up as Ajax.
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not sure about that
 
Rojofiam said:
If Bayern's last 15 years elevates them to the number 2 spot, why are Milan and Liverpool 3rd and 4th? Milan I think have 2 Scudettos since the turn of the millennium, last won the CL almost 20 years ago (and they're almost certain to go 20+ years without one) and Liverpool have 2 CLs and 1 PL title in 34 years. Neither are top 5 richest or have a top 5 biggest fanbase either.

Barca's 2005-2015 era is greater than any era Bayern, Liverpool, AC Milan, or United ever produced. How are they just 5th?

Why does United's 21 year period from 1992 to 2013 not matter as much as Bayern since 2009 until today?

What could Inter Milan possibly have over United?

Sorry but this seems like a personal preference rather than the real greatness and size of the clubs.
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What on earth are you talking about??

Liverpool 76-86:

7 league titles
4 Champions Leagues
2 Europa Leagues
1 FA Cup
4 League cups

Barcelona 05-15:

7 League titles
4 Champions Leagues
3 Copa Del Reys

Give your head a wobble with greater era
 
TheLiverBird said:
What on earth are you talking about??

Liverpool 76-86:

7 league titles
4 Champions Leagues
2 Europa Leagues
1 FA Cup
4 League cups

Barcelona 05-15:

7 League titles
4 Champions Leagues
3 Copa Del Reys

Give your head a wobble with greater era
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Compare the size, global popularity, and general overall level of those 2 eras in football: 1976-1986 and then 2005-2015. And then you'll have your answer.
 
TheLiverBird said:
What on earth are you talking about??

Liverpool 76-86:

7 league titles
4 Champions Leagues
2 Europa Leagues
1 FA Cup
4 League cups

Barcelona 05-15:

7 League titles
4 Champions Leagues
3 Copa Del Reys

Give your head a wobble with greater era
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Barcelona would be ahead on account of doing it while producing both the best player of his generation (if not ever) and the best manager of his generation (if not ever), pushing a style of play that led to long-running tactical changes in football, and winning a sextuple.

Also, Liverpool appear to have won 1, not 2 UEFA cups in that period.
 
City can be successful for the next 20 years, but they still won’t be a bigger club than Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, United and Liverpool. Juve was a big club but they cheated, same as City. Only difference is: City got away with it (I’m sure those Arab money can pay their way out of anything).
 
United, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca, and Bayern are the biggest five in no certain order.

Ac, inter, juve, ajax, arsenal in second tier.
 
JakeC said:
United, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca, and Bayern are the biggest five in no certain order.

Ac, inter, juve, ajax, arsenal in second tier.
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Hate to say but Madrid is surely a tier above all other clubs, in terms of all of on-field success, following and prestige.
 
I asked chatgpt the exact OP question. Here's its answer:

1- Real Madrid
2- Barcelona
3- Man United
4- Bayern
5- AC Milan

Answer in details: (P.S: not up to date. It counts only 14 CL trophies for RM)

Determining the "Top 5 biggest football clubs in the world" is subjective and can vary depending on the criteria used. However, based on a combination of history, power, prestige, wealth, reputation, trophies, and global fanbase, the following five clubs are often considered among the biggest in the world:

1. Real Madrid (Spain)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1902, Real Madrid is one of the most successful and storied clubs in football history.
  • Trophies: A record 14 UEFA Champions League titles, 35 La Liga titles, and numerous other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Consistently ranks among the richest football clubs globally.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Massive global fanbase with a strong presence in Europe, Asia, and Latin America.

2. FC Barcelona (Spain)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1899, Barcelona is known for its rich history and cultural significance.
  • Trophies: 5 UEFA Champions League titles, 27 La Liga titles, and numerous Copa del Rey and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: One of the world's richest clubs, with strong commercial revenues.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Boasts a massive global following, particularly known for its "Mes que un club" (More than a club) motto.

3. Manchester United (England)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1878, Manchester United is one of the most famous and successful clubs in English football history.
  • Trophies: 3 UEFA Champions League titles, 20 English Premier League titles, and many other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Frequently listed among the wealthiest football clubs, with significant commercial revenue and a global brand.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Enormous global fanbase, particularly strong in Asia and Africa.

4. Bayern Munich (Germany)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1900, Bayern Munich is the most successful club in German football history.
  • Trophies: 6 UEFA Champions League titles, 33 Bundesliga titles, and many other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Dominates German football economically and has significant commercial revenue.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Strong fanbase in Germany and a growing global following, especially in Europe and Asia.

5. AC Milan (Italy)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1899, AC Milan is one of the most successful and recognized clubs in Italy and Europe.
  • Trophies: 7 UEFA Champions League titles, 19 Serie A titles, and numerous other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Historically one of the richest clubs, although recent years have seen fluctuating financial fortunes.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Strong fanbase in Italy and significant global recognition, especially in Europe and South America.
These clubs are often seen as the epitome of football greatness due to their rich history, consistent success, and global influence.
 
Avatar said:
I asked chatgpt the exact OP question. Here's its answer:

1- Real Madrid
2- Barcelona
3- Man United
4- Bayern
5- AC Milan

Answer in details: (P.S: not up to date. It counts only 14 CL trophies for RM)

Determining the "Top 5 biggest football clubs in the world" is subjective and can vary depending on the criteria used. However, based on a combination of history, power, prestige, wealth, reputation, trophies, and global fanbase, the following five clubs are often considered among the biggest in the world:

1. Real Madrid (Spain)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1902, Real Madrid is one of the most successful and storied clubs in football history.
  • Trophies: A record 14 UEFA Champions League titles, 35 La Liga titles, and numerous other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Consistently ranks among the richest football clubs globally.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Massive global fanbase with a strong presence in Europe, Asia, and Latin America.

2. FC Barcelona (Spain)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1899, Barcelona is known for its rich history and cultural significance.
  • Trophies: 5 UEFA Champions League titles, 27 La Liga titles, and numerous Copa del Rey and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: One of the world's richest clubs, with strong commercial revenues.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Boasts a massive global following, particularly known for its "Mes que un club" (More than a club) motto.

3. Manchester United (England)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1878, Manchester United is one of the most famous and successful clubs in English football history.
  • Trophies: 3 UEFA Champions League titles, 20 English Premier League titles, and many other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Frequently listed among the wealthiest football clubs, with significant commercial revenue and a global brand.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Enormous global fanbase, particularly strong in Asia and Africa.

4. Bayern Munich (Germany)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1900, Bayern Munich is the most successful club in German football history.
  • Trophies: 6 UEFA Champions League titles, 33 Bundesliga titles, and many other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Dominates German football economically and has significant commercial revenue.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Strong fanbase in Germany and a growing global following, especially in Europe and Asia.

5. AC Milan (Italy)​

  • History & Prestige: Founded in 1899, AC Milan is one of the most successful and recognized clubs in Italy and Europe.
  • Trophies: 7 UEFA Champions League titles, 19 Serie A titles, and numerous other domestic and international trophies.
  • Wealth & Power: Historically one of the richest clubs, although recent years have seen fluctuating financial fortunes.
  • Popularity & Fanbase: Strong fanbase in Italy and significant global recognition, especially in Europe and South America.
These clubs are often seen as the epitome of football greatness due to their rich history, consistent success, and global influence.
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Chatgpt knows it’s stuff.
 
SirAF said:
1. Real
2. United
3. Liverpool
4. Barcelona
5. Bayern
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If this is by number of fans, sounds reasonable, but I could swear Barca has more fans than Scousers?

Is this based on some data?
 
Botim said:
Here's a somewhat mathematical approach:

1) Most fans

Social media (Insta, facebook, X, twitter)

1. Real
2. Barca
3. United
4. PSG
5. Juve
6. City
7. Chelsea
8. Liverpool
9. Bayern
10. Arsenal

Attendance

1. Dortmund
2. Bayern
3. United
4. Inter
5. Milan
6. Real
7. AS Roma
8. Tottenham
9. Arsenal
10. West Ham

Shirt sales

1. Barca
2. Real
3. Liverpool
4. Bayern
5. United
6. PSG
7. Arsenal
8. Chelsea
9. Juve
10. Tottenham

2) Most trophies

Domestic titles (in the top 5 leagues)

1. Juve
2. Real
3. Bayern
4. Barca
5. United
6. Liverpool
7. Milan
Inter
Arsenal
10. Atletico

UCL titles

1. Real
2. Milan
3. Liverpool
4. Bayern
5. Barca
6. Ajax
7. United
8. Inter
9. Chelsea
10. Juve

3) Club value

(according to Forbes)

1. Real
2. United
3. Barca
4. Liverpool
5. City
6. Bayern
7. PSG
8. Chelsea
9. Tottenham
10. Arsenal

RANKING

This adds up to this top 5:

1. Real
2. Barca
3. United
4. Bayern
5. Liverpool
(6. Milan, Juve)

What do we think? Seems reasonable to me...
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It's as good as any metric we see. Obviously if people are passionate about this type of thing, they could make arguments against some of it, but I'm personally not worried either way, I just want a good united team on the pitch.
 
JakeC said:
United, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca, and Bayern are the biggest five in no certain order.

Ac, inter, juve, ajax, arsenal in second tier.
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Historically, Liverpool should be there, but most of their success was achieved before the 1990s.

In terms of attractiveness, they're not even ahead of Arsenal or Chelsea. Probably behind them post-Klopp tbh.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Barcelona would be ahead on account of doing it while producing both the best player of his generation (if not ever) and the best manager of his generation (if not ever), pushing a style of play that led to long-running tactical changes in football, and winning a sextuple.

Also, Liverpool appear to have won 1, not 2 UEFA cups in that period.
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La liga has always been a lesser league than the premier league and copa del rey will always be inferior to the fa cup.You should also remember the fact that barca were paying refs.Pep didnot revolutionize football,he simply took from previous managers and had his way of putting those things together.Most of his success was through having an already great side,which included messi,or massively outspending other teams,and cheating while at man city(who had won the prem not long before he arrived).Pep has never actually overachieved considering his spending power and the number of great players he has had.
 
Rojofiam said:
Historically, Liverpool should be there, but most of their success was achieved before the 1990s.

In terms of attractiveness, they're not even ahead of Arsenal or Chelsea. Probably behind them post-Klopp tbh.
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The only thing that chelsea have over liverpool or man united is the pull of london,and the fact that their owner will pay crazy wages.

If you want to consider when each team won their trophies,we would have lfc( prem and ucl winners in last 6 seasons)above chelsea( ucl winners afew seasons ago)then man united(last prem title 11 years ago)then arsenal(19 years since they were last champions)

Arsenal have the best team at the moment,and probably the best manager aswell, but they are still the smallest of the four clubs mentioned.
 
Havak said:
Why not? Are Ajax bigger than Man Utd?

Fully entitled to your metric of most European cup wins = biggest team. But really, it isn't as straightforward as that in the slightest. Manchester United are a bigger team globally than every side except Real Madrid and maybe Barcelona.

Most successful doesn't have to mean biggest IMO. I would class Arsenal as a bigger club than Ajax, even though they haven't won a single European Cup and their only European success of note was a Cup Winner's Cup.
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The thing that massively goes against Ajax is the fact that the dutch league just seems so insignificant compared to the premier league(though it is a decent league).Therefore Ajax history in the european cup is near enough everything that they have in terms of prestige, because their league or domestic cup records are just not a big deal to fans around the world,or a big draw for players.I feel certain that consistantly coming fourth in the prem,winning the odd fa cup etc puts a team in the global limelight more than winning multiple titles a lesser league would.(However the caveat here is that you need to be able to point at a number of titles that you have won at some point,aswell as going far in the champions league)

Most people around the world only see Ajax in the ucl and even then they donot tend to do so well.Arsenal and chelsea donot have that issue.

For me Arsenal = afew titles and alot of fa cups.

Chelsea= afew titles,2 european cups,fa cups,league cups

Ajax = much better european cup history(aswell as being dominant in a decent league)

Man united = 20 titles,3 european cups,1 europa league,massive stadium(not that big a deal because it is all about the number of fans trying to get tickets)huge glabal fan base,alot of fa cups and league cups.

Liverpool=19 titles,6 european cups,3 uefa cups,alot of fa cups and league cups,huge fan base, but less than man united because less of their success would be labelled recent.
 
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