Best:
1. Real
2. Barca
3. Bayern
4. Juventus
5. AC Milan
Biggest:
1. Real
2. Man Utd
3. Barca
4. Juventus
5. Liverpool
Juve's early mid 80s team and their late 90s team were sublime, potentially even better than Ajax's best.What do you mean by the best clubs in history? As in, which club has had the best teams? Certainly Juve has no business being there above Ajax?
And why omit Bayern from the list of biggest? Seems like they’re an elite club by all metrics and certainly among the biggest, probably right behind Real Madrid.
Again Juve has little going for them to be placed on that list and Utd in 2nd?
1.Madrid.
2.United.
3.Barcelona.
4.Bayern.
5.AC Milan.
3/4/5 are interchangable imo with Liverpool probably being in there as well.
Would probably have Ajax over Juve as well historically but not top 5.
Tell me, what makes Liverpool and Juve "bigger" than Bayern? What metric did you use?Best:
1. Real
2. Barca
3. Bayern
4. Juventus
5. AC Milan
Biggest:
1. Real
2. Man Utd
3. Barca
4. Juventus
5. Liverpool
I think that's a good list.Real Madrid
Liverpool
Barcelona
Bayern
It's out of Manchester United, Juve and Milan for #5 and I think it might be Milan as they had a European era of dominance.
Is that the “best” list?Real Madrid
Liverpool
Barcelona
Bayern
It's out of Manchester United, Juve and Milan for #5 and I think it might be Milan as they had a European era of dominance.
I would agree although if your going by dominance in world football it’sIs that the “best” list?
Surely, Milan should be higher than Liverpool, so should Barcelona.
Look at the players that played for Milan and Barcelona, no team in England comes close to that quality and amount of world class players who played for Madrid, Barcelona and AC Milan.
The biggest have to be:
1.Real Madrid
2.Barcelona
3.Manchester United
Was really irritated when I saw the list. But seeing that you’re a Liverpool supporter it makes more sense.I would agree although if your going by dominance in world football it’s
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Liverpool/ Bayern
Real madrid are the biggest by far,mostly because of their 15 european cups.You just cannot skip clubs with around double the number of european cup trophies.It really depends on what factors you are including in 'big club'.
For me, if you are combining absolutely everything that makes a club big, then Real Madrid & Manchester United are realistically the two stand outs. I'd put Real above United, but they're absolutely the top two when you combine on field success and brand recognition/popularity around the world (and everything in-between).
After that, it's a really close run thing with AC Milan, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and Liverpool. It would take far too much digging to to whittle one of them out of the top 5. Juventus probably have a shout to be included in that mix as well, but I think they'd end up behind all of the teams mentioned so far in my list (unless the combined credentials really do surpass the others). We're only really talking top 5 in this thread, so honestly, despite some other huge clubs in England, Italy, Germany, and Spain who would think they should be involved, they're only really part of a top 10 discussion in my opinion.
So:
Real Madrid
Manchester United
Chose 3 from AC Milan, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, and Liverpool and put them in any order you like.
Extremely flawed,each catergory is treated as equal,but some of those catergories are based off of unreliable data,or just simply not worth mentioning.Here's a somewhat mathematical approach:
1) Most fans
Social media (Insta, facebook, X, twitter)
1. Real
2. Barca
3. United
4. PSG
5. Juve
6. City
7. Chelsea
8. Liverpool
9. Bayern
10. Arsenal
Attendance
1. Dortmund
2. Bayern
3. United
4. Inter
5. Milan
6. Real
7. AS Roma
8. Tottenham
9. Arsenal
10. West Ham
Shirt sales
1. Barca
2. Real
3. Liverpool
4. Bayern
5. United
6. PSG
7. Arsenal
8. Chelsea
9. Juve
10. Tottenham
2) Most trophies
Domestic titles (in the top 5 leagues)
1. Juve
2. Real
3. Bayern
4. Barca
5. United
6. Liverpool
7. Milan
Inter
Arsenal
10. Atletico
UCL titles
1. Real
2. Milan
3. Liverpool
4. Bayern
5. Barca
6. Ajax
7. United
8. Inter
9. Chelsea
10. Juve
3) Club value
(according to Forbes)
1. Real
2. United
3. Barca
4. Liverpool
5. City
6. Bayern
7. PSG
8. Chelsea
9. Tottenham
10. Arsenal
RANKING
This adds up to this top 5:
1. Real
2. Barca
3. United
4. Bayern
5. Liverpool
(6. Milan, Juve)
What do we think? Seems reasonable to me...
I think that juventus has many more league wins than ac milan.I have no idea how inter would be considered as big as ac milan though.There is a clear top 5 and it's Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern, Manchester United.
I don't really see how this is even up for debate.
These clubs come come from the consensus top 4 football leagues and are by some margin the biggest in their respective countries.
Spain has two clubs among top 5 because of their specific history. Juve, Bayern and Manchester United dominate their respective countries in terms of number of fans and their institutional power.
Liverpool and Milan don't belong in this conversation. Liverpool is nowhere near United in terms of fans and Milan is not even the second biggest club in Italy, which is Inter. Juventus has at least twice as many fans in Italy as Milan. In its current state, Milan couldn't even be considered an elite club anymore. Liverpool has a case for being #6 biggest club in the world, but there's still a big gap between #5 and #6 when all things are considered.
Winning a bunch of trophies does not change the size of the club, City could win 5 more CLs and they would not be among the top 5 European clubs in size. By the logic that continental trophies determine the size of the club, Independiente is the biggest club in South America.
I'm a total neutral on this question btw, as a fan of Atletico Madrid I have no reason to be particularly fond of any of those teams.
Why not? Are Ajax bigger than Man Utd?Real madrid are the biggest by far,mostly because of their 15 european cups.You just cannot skip clubs with around double the number of european cup trophies.
1)Real madrid
2)Ac milan
3)liverpool
4)Barcelona
5)Bayern munich
It makes a lot of sense when looking at success.Was really irritated when I saw the list. But seeing that you’re a Liverpool supporter it makes more sense.
Because Pool were so successful these last 20 years? They’ve won the cl twice and one a single league title. If Pool‘s success warrants a ranking that high, we need to have a discussion about Ajax. And if it’s about success, they are certainly not on par with us.It makes a lot of sense when looking at success.
Because Pool were so successful these last 20 years? They’ve won the cl twice and one a single league title. If Pool‘s success warrants a ranking that high, we need to have a discussion about Ajax. And if it’s about success, they are certainly not on par with us.
Why, it's one of the most iconic things in football.(They share a stadium with inter, i am not impressed by that)
Cannot put United above Barca or Madrid, but we are definitely 3rd IMO and the only club who currently has the potential to rival the greatness of the two Spanish giants.
I'd say Arsenal and Chelsea still have a lot of untapped potential and a 10-15 year period of continued success could elevate them to bigger levels than ever before. For now, though, they're not cracking top 5.
Liverpool are the least attractive big club IMO, most players would easily choose United, Arsenal, Chelsea or City over them IMO and those are just clubs within the Premier League. It also needs to be considered that 2017-2022 was comfortably their peak period in the modern era and their appeal never really rose to the levels that it should've if they really were a top 5 biggest and greatest club ever. They also cannot compete financially with a good number of clubs, and never really signed truly big names, be that players or managers. I get that it isn't their approach but even if they tried, I don't see a 23 year old Paul Pogba going there, or a 20 year old Bellingham, or a 22 year old Haaland, or a 26 year old Di Maria, etc there are several other examples where Liverpool didn't really have a chance to get a highly-coveted superstar even if they wanted them. They need to get it absolutely right almost every time in order to be able to build a superteam, like they did with Klopp, Alisson, van Dijk and Salah.
The three big Italians are handicapped by the decline of Serie A and financial disadvantage compared to other clubs their size...the Italian teams would probably be the biggest beneficiaries of a potential Super League or something similar. Would suddenly have the two things they most desperately need: A competitive, higher level league and a much better financial situation.
Bayern are a huge club but for some reason I cannot put them in the highest tier. The Bundesliga is not popular enough and there isn't enough competition in it. No one in Africa supports Bayern. It's mostly United, Arsenal and Chelsea if I'm not mistaken. Asia and the US are similar IMO. They are a big power in football, though, and their European legacy speaks for itself...but not top 3 for me, probably somewhere between 4th and 7th.
Ajax are also a huge club but haven't really been relevant in Europe in the modern era, or at least for almost 30 years now.
PSG and City's success is artificial and comes from very unethical sources, and they have no history either. No one considers them on the level of historical giants other than kids and uninformed people. Chelsea too, btw, but it's been 21 years since Abramovich bought them and people forget with time.
I was just going to write this. Bayern are huge within the footballing fraternity. They are a legacy club. But they are far behind the Spanish, Italian and English clubs in terms of global popularity. They just don't have the iconic household names that kids grow up idolising like Real, Barcelona, Milan and Juve boasted over the years. You can say that about the English clubs as well as they've been traditionally insular and not very attractive to the biggest legends of the game, but the English clubs have a very popular league and a bigger reach due to the power and influence of the English language worldwide and since the inception of the Premier League, a far more successful and popular product.I’m genuinely curious about Bayern being on nearly everyone’s list. Great club no doubt, that is known worldwide by football fans but I don’t see them being supported on a large global scale the way Real Madrid, Barcelona and United are.
I live in Canada, where it’s a huge melting pot and we have access to almost all the big European leagues on tv. I’ve rarely ran into people who actively support Bayern and watch their games or even watch the Bundesliga. I can honestly say I know more Celtic fans than I do Bayern fans. Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea are easily more followed than Bayern by a wide margin here.
I was just going to write this. Bayern are huge within the footballing fraternity. They are a legacy club. But they are far behind the Spanish, Italian and English clubs in terms of global popularity. They just don't have the iconic household names that kids grow up idolising like Real, Barcelona, Milan and Juve boasted over the years. You can say that about the English clubs as well as they've been traditionally insular and not very attractive to the biggest legends of the game, but the English clubs have a very popular league and a bigger reach due to the power and influence of the English language worldwide and since the inception of the Premier League, a far more successful and popular product.
Bayern generate more shirt sales than any English club. In this day and age that defines popularity to a huge degree. If people are willing to shell out 100s on a football shirt for a team that tells a lot on the current size of a club.I was just going to write this. Bayern are huge within the footballing fraternity. They are a legacy club. But they are far behind the Spanish, Italian and English clubs in terms of global popularity. They just don't have the iconic household names that kids grow up idolising like Real, Barcelona, Milan and Juve boasted over the years. You can say that about the English clubs as well as they've been traditionally insular and not very attractive to the biggest legends of the game, but the English clubs have a very popular league and a bigger reach due to the power and influence of the English language worldwide and since the inception of the Premier League, a far more successful and popular product.
I would class Arsenal as a bigger club than Ajax, even though they haven't won a single European Cup and their only European success of note was a Cup Winner's Cup.
