Top 4 race 2016/17

It's not so much the gap that's too big for us to make up over the season. All the teams above us will drop silly points and even hit bad patches at some point. It's just that I don't see us capitalising on them, and dropping points ourselves like yesterday.

I think we will have a really good idea of where we stand no later than January.
 
There's 3 games I look at which we dropped 5 points in:

Watford away, we really should have got at least a point that day (+ 1)

Stoke, don't really need to say anything (+2)

Burnley, as Stoke above (+2).

Literally points just thrown away! We'd be sitting on 20 points and in amongst the leading pack.

We now really have to start winning games we're dominating in and grinding out wins in games we don't deserve anything from. This current squad needs to show some balls.

If we go on an undefeated run from now until Xmas, which is not completely beyond all realms, we'll be in a much better state.
 
Sandikan said:
Roll on Thursday, get that won and we're as good as qualified,
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My guess of the 8 CL teams who will be parachuted into the EL would be
Basel Besiktas B Monchengladbach PSV Leverkusen S Lisbon FC Kobnhavn O Lyonnais.
The EL will take some winning.
 
Is it not the case that most top teams dominate nearly all their matches so when they lose or draw it runs against the most likely outcome? 'What ifs' are pretty vacuous given all top teams could identify games where they should've won but didn't.
 
I said before the Chelsea game that I thought we'd be facing an uphill battle to get top 4 if we didn't win that game, and after that game that I'd be ecstatic if we get top 4. I stand by that.

The train hasn't left the station yet, but we really need to string together a few results in the coming weeks, or else the gap will be insurmountable by the new year, which will be an absolute disaster for the club. Even last year we were in with a chance until the very end, even if it always looked unlikely, and falling even further behind with a new manager and more millions invested is sure to cause even more turmoil around the club.
 
We have the capacity to string a few good results and bring ourselves back into the reckoning not only for top four but the title but we need to do it now. I don't think there is a team good enough to really shut us out if we got on a strong run. What we need is to win the next three games or at least beat Swansea and avoid defeat against Arsenal then build on from that.
 
BlueCelery said:
One of City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea will undoubtedly collapse this season. It's just a matter of pouncing on it by winning 5/6 games in a row.
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yes, we just need to wait for a Stoke or Burnley at home, those are bankers...
 
VanGaalEra said:
There's 3 games I look at which we dropped 5 points in:

Watford away, we really should have got at least a point that day (+ 1)

Stoke, don't really need to say anything (+2)

Burnley, as Stoke above (+2).

Literally points just thrown away! We'd be sitting on 20 points and in amongst the leading pack.

We now really have to start winning games we're dominating in and grinding out wins in games we don't deserve anything from. This current squad needs to show some balls.

If we go on an undefeated run from now until Xmas, which is not completely beyond all realms, we'll be in a much better state.
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Don't set yourself up for disappointment. I'm in a "expect nothing from the team" mode at the moment so that any good result will be appreciated. Yes it is that bad for me.
 
kouroux said:
Don't set yourself up for disappointment. I'm in a "expect nothing from the team" mode at the moment so that any good result will be appreciated. Yes it is that bad for me.
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Tbf I'm an eternal optimist and at the moment even my thoughts are split.

Say to myself we'll be fine, Jose is one of the best and will get it right, then remember saying that to myself last year with him under Chelsea.
 
Very early but we need to start doing something soon if we want to even get top 4. Drawing to Stoke and Burnely at home is a very poor show. Hardly like we are making up for it in the big games though...(the Chelsea tonking).
 
Swansea and Arsenal next. Current form indicates 3 or 4 points out of 6 is most likely. But scarily for Utd fans 0-1 point out of 6 is also not as ridiculous as it should sound.
 
It'll be City, Arsenal, Chelsea and United. Tottenham and Liverpoll drop out. That's my prediction.
 
What a rubbish start to Mourinho's United career. 7 points off 4th place is an unacceptable place to be after spending 150 million pounds in the summer. We need to make up that gap quickly and the issue is that the other teams look genuinely stronger right now. Can see this getting quite messy for us given we have some big name players who aren't used to being so far off the top end of the table, and a manager who tends to react very poorly to bad results.

Basically, we need to close the gap quickly or else things could irrecoverably tits up.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
What a rubbish start to Mourinho's United career. 7 points off 4th place is an unacceptable place to be after spending 150 million pounds in the summer. We need to make up that gap quickly and the issue is that the other teams look genuinely stronger right now. Can see this getting quite messy for us given we have some big name players who aren't used to being so far off the top end of the table, and a manager who tends to react very poorly to bad results.

Basically, we need to close the gap quickly or else things could irrecoverably tits up.
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We won't make it up. Really can't see us closing that gap on Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Chelsea...best to accept it now
 
Attila said:
We won't make it up. Really can't see us closing that gap on Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Chelsea...best to accept it now
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My expectations have already sunk this season. Amusingly it's happened even sooner than it did under LVG.

For me the problem is a pretty simple one - we dont score enough goals. We have 8-10 less goals than the top 4 sides. And it's not surprising. Other teams have quality in wide positions, or attackers supporting the striker. Chelsea have Hazard and Willian. Liverpool have Countinho and Sane. City have De Bruyne, Sterling and Navas. We have Lingard, Rashford and Mata, with our top scorer from last season and big summer signing barely featuring.

I still think it's possible. But things need to swing our way rapidly now.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
My expectations have already sunk this season. Amusingly it's happened even sooner than it did under LVG.

For me the problem is a pretty simple one - we dont score enough goals. We have 8-10 less goals than the top 4 sides. And it's not surprising. Other teams have quality in wide positions, or attackers supporting the striker. Chelsea have Hazard and Willian. Liverpool have Countinho and Sane. City have De Bruyne, Sterling and Navas. We have Lingard, Rashford and Mata, with our top scorer from last and big summer signing barely featuring.
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Yes I completely agree on Rashford and Lingard. They are both poor wingers and we struggle with them. But Ibra has had so many chances that our position seems a bit unfair. Stoke and Burnley are two games we should have easily won if not for his shit finishing.

I think we are going to take a season to fix...just hope our fans don't push for another sacking
 
VorZakone said:
It'll be City, Arsenal, Chelsea and United. Tottenham and Liverpoll drop out. That's my prediction.
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I feel like people consistently underestimate Spurs. They're a very well-balanced, good side that, while perhaps lacking a genuine world class talent, is full of very good players who all fill their roles well. Add in a very good manager who's been slowly building a strong side. They aren't strong enough to win the title but I think they'll be in and around the top four.

Liverpool will be inconsistent no doubt and will throw away some silly points, but again, hard to see them really fading away all that much with the manager they have and some of the talent they have in their squad.

It feels like if we want top four this season, we're going to have to achieve it on our own merits and on our own form, as opposed to relying on sides falling away. Could be a benchmark points total for reaching top four this season depending on how things go.
 
Attila said:
Yes I completely agree on Rashford and Lingard. They are both poor wingers and we struggle with them. But Ibra has had so many chances that our position seems a bit unfair. Stoke and Burnley are two games we should have easily won if not for his shit finishing.

I think we are going to take a season to fix...just hope our fans don't push for another sacking
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Agreed on Ibra. But I do have an issue with blaming one player who missed the odd chance or two for the team dropping points. If anything, I'd like to see genuine quality from wide players (like we saw from martial last season) to ease off the burden off the striker going through a bad patch. Ibra has missed too many chances. No doubt. But he does drop deep and help create openings as be did vs Burnley. It would help big time if we had others popping up to offer goals and goal threat as well rather just waiting for his goalscoring form to return.

Alternatively just stick martial up front I reckon.
 
42 attempts on goal by Ibra since he last scored: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37817095

What we're lacking is goals and thought it might be harsh to pin blame on Ibra, you can't really afford to be missing that many shots for a 1st choice striker in a team aiming to finish at least fourth (was the title before season started but thats looking unlikely).
 
Just waiting for us to click! By the time we get to February I expect us to be mounting what will be an unrealistic title chase.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
My expectations have already sunk this season. Amusingly it's happened even sooner than it did under LVG.

For me the problem is a pretty simple one - we dont score enough goals. We have 8-10 less goals than the top 4 sides. And it's not surprising. Other teams have quality in wide positions, or attackers supporting the striker. Chelsea have Hazard and Willian. Liverpool have Countinho and Sane. City have De Bruyne, Sterling and Navas. We have Lingard, Rashford and Mata, with our top scorer from last season and big summer signing barely featuring.

I still think it's possible. But things need to swing our way rapidly now.
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Your pretty much bang on there boss with regards to goals.
 
Top 4 will soon be gone. The other teams look better than we do (or at least take their chances)
 
Took too many games to drop Rooney, now too many games to drop Ibra. Meanwhile our young star striker is on the wing.

Bought a known slow starter in Mhki with no real idea who else he would play on right wing in the meantime.

Has no idea how to get the best out of Pogba, who should partner him or where to play him.

Doesn't know his best 11 and most agree is playing the wrong formation.

This season has more chance to be like Chelsea's last season than being champions.

He will do well to even equal LVG's first season.
 
With City, Arsenal and Spurs all losing points this weekend, a result against Arsenal will give us a chance to get properly back in the mix for the top four spots, and be within three points of fourth place. Similarly, if we lose that game we're probably looking at a gap of nine points to fourth place.

We've also got West Ham (H), Everton (A) and Spurs (H) coming up after the Arsenal game. So right about now would be a magnificent time to find some form and string together a few wins. I think these four matches could quite conceivably determine whether we'll spend this season in the mix four a top four spot, or firmly placed in the next cluster of teams on the table between 6th and 10th.

I'm optimistic, and have a feeling that a Zlatan resurgence (he won't feature against Arsenal though, obviously) mixed with Pogba's rising form will see us get through these next four games with 10 points (win the three first, draw against Spurs) see us right in the mix for a CL spot.
 
We need to improve our record against the teams in the top 7. Just 1 point from 3 games. In contrast:

Liverpool - 8 from 4
Chelsea & Tottenham Hotspur - 6 from 4
Arsenal & Manchester City - 4 from 3
Everton - 2 from 3

We're the only team in the league to have scored 1 goal against the top 7 sides. Everyone else has scored at least twice: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2016-2017/versus-top-third
 
Jed I. Knight said:
Wait, so you don't think we'll take 10 points from the next four matches?

I know you're probably right, but I feel like blind optimism after a good result is part of the deal :D
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I very much doubt we will, no. In fact i'll guess we get half of that.

But yeah, hence why the 'false dawns' thread is so popular :lol:.
 
We have to find a settled side that will go out each week and bleed for the cause, wondering why Schneiderlin hasn't been given a chance in the league he seems like a dedicated player who will battle through it all.
 
Damien said:
We need to improve our record against the teams in the top 7. Just 1 point from 3 games. In contrast:

Liverpool - 8 from 4
Chelsea & Tottenham Hotspur - 6 from 4
Arsenal & Manchester City - 4 from 3
Everton - 2 from 3

We're the only team in the league to have scored 1 goal against the top 7 sides. Everyone else has scored at least twice: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2016-2017/versus-top-third
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2 wins in 9 league games
Just 2 points from 4 games against rivals

Rubbish. Played well today but needed 3 points.
 
Basically gone in the middle of November. Fecking shocking that.
 
I think that's us done. Needed the win today but once again we blew it.
 
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