I have zero qualms at all with this. He’s another I’d put over Zidane.
Top 10 greatest players of all time
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I have zero qualms at all with this. He’s another I’d put over Zidane.
Pele has all of it against lesser opposition and an absolutely phenomenal Brazil team. That makes a difference. I am married to a Brazilian actually, so have seen my fair share of Pele. He has Messi beat in terms of athleticism, but Messi is a better dribbler and his vision is on another level to anyone who has come before him. He just sees the game in a way no one has before.
He is clear first, with Pele and Maradona just below him on a tier of their own too.
I don't get how you can think Messi is a tier ahead of Maradona. No one who's played the sport is a tier ahead of Maradona.
I'll leave Pele out of this, since it's easier to compare Messi and Maradona directly considering their similarities in style.
850 goals and 400 assists probably.
Messi
Pele
Maradona
Best
Ronaldo
R9
Cruyff
De stefano
Zidane
Ronaldinho
Can’t believe I had to leave out Platini, Beckenbauer, Van Basten.
Pele
Maradona
Best
Ronaldo
R9
Cruyff
De stefano
Zidane
Ronaldinho
Can’t believe I had to leave out Platini, Beckenbauer, Van Basten.
The didn’t challenge himself in other leagues argument doesn’t really work for me, Pele was always considered the GOAT despite playing just for Santos. Eusebio just played for Benfica. Beckenbauer and Muller just played for Bayern Munich like Messi a few teams at the end of their careers. Charlton only played for United. Maradona mainly moved to Napoli because he fell out with Barcelona.
The idea that Beckenbauer, Maldini or Baresi are lesser defenders because they didn’t ‘test’ themselves in multiple leagues. Or Neuer or Buffon as goalkeepers. Nobody would make that argument.
The game is geared far more towards attack-minded players now and Maradona played most of his best years during the toughest defensive league ever. He also spent a few years in La Liga where brute force had zero repercussions.
Those stats have to be applied in context.
From a 10 year period of their best statistical output, Maradona's output is actually slightly higher than Messi's accounting for their own team's goals and their own output.
Messi was top scorer of La Liga 8 different times (that is in a league with Ronaldo) and was head and shoulders above his peers.
Maradona was top scorer in Europe just once. His output, in terms of goals, was comparable to the greats of his time. He was a phenomenal player, and consistently producing in a very tough league, but Messi’s consistency and longevity puts him ahead.
He was winning a World Cup at 34, while Maradona was sent home in disgrace.
Among so many others.
I really don't like at all the whole GOAT stuff, they always end in silly arguments demeriting at some point absolute legends of the game
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I was shocked not to see Best on most peoples list especially with the highly rated voice overs he’s had over the years. A lot of people have said he’s the best footballer they have ever seen live.
Neymar I had to put in as I don’t think we will see a player of his skillset performing the level he did for a long time now. Only thing that keeps him out of these lists it Messi and Ronaldo. If he didn’t have to play in their peak era he’d be more highly rated and also PSG would never of happened.
I don't have a problem with 'casual' GOAT / who's the greatest debates.
But I do think that it's utterly embarrassing and cringeworthy for anyone in their 30s or older (or maybe in their late 20s as well), to actually 'obsess' about silly GOAT debates in any sport, get riled up when other people have different opinions to them there etc.
IMO GOAT debates tend to be suited for 'kids and casuals'. In my second favourite sport tennis, the fans that have tended to obsessively debate who between Federer, Nadal and Djokovic was the greatest (again beyond just casually), have essentially been too lazy and stunted to actually follow and comment on much of tennis action and tournaments that were taking place throughout the year.
The same applies for the basketball fans that spend so much debating whether Michael Jordan or Lebron James is greater ad naseum, as Charles Barkley recently said.
In no particular order first tier is quite clear
Pele
Messi
Maradona
...
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Di Stefano
R9
C. Ronaldo
....
Xavi
Van Basten
The last 2 spots are really down to your personal preference and can easilly go to Platini/Zico/Puskas for example but am willing to give the nod here to (what were imo) the most dominant central midfielder of all time and most complete striker.
Pele
Messi
Maradona
...
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Di Stefano
R9
C. Ronaldo
....
Xavi
Van Basten
The last 2 spots are really down to your personal preference and can easilly go to Platini/Zico/Puskas for example but am willing to give the nod here to (what were imo) the most dominant central midfielder of all time and most complete striker.
Iniesta was more consistent and similarly skillfull. Zidane may have been more balletic but Iniesta wasn't far behind in that respect.
Both are amongst the best big game players ever scoring in world cup finals and producing great performances in ucl finals. Zidane's goal un 2002 was amazing ofcourse but Iniesta was motm in 2009.
The reason Zidane gets more recognition is because he did not have a player like Messi as his teammate or even in his generation. Iniesta was overshadowed by Messi and also by Cristiano.
Maradona had sufficient longevity and THAT world cup. After Mexico 86, he was already in the Goat conversation.Like Maradona, you mean?
Messi is the better footballer of the two and has better performances and stats vs the best the premier league has to offer (so called top 6) and has a much better international career which proves his adaptability. Therefore, your argument does not hold.
Indeed, this all just opinions
People say this, but how then did he win Ballon D'Ors, FIFA WPOTYs, Serie A Footballer of the Year, even Ligue Un footballer of the year awards? Do you think that (especially with the domestic awards), that the people who voted for them were not watching him consistently? Think about the people who win the PFA or FWA Footballer of the year awards in the Premier League nowadays, do you think the voters do not watch the recipients play throughout the season? How did he break the world transfer record twice? Something is not adding up here.
I honestly believe that this view has become something people parrot about Zidane, without really thinking. And his meh stats then help them to bolster this view.
i mean, I'm sure if Zidane had played in a side that had another player that scored nearly 700 goals, then you might have a point. As it is, I don't think you do.
That team was not the greatest international side of all time in my view, but the key word here is 'arguably'. It was not arguable that Zidane was the linchpin of his French sides: the team went as he went. Iniesta can't say the same.
Whilst winning those titles
Zidane- 1 Ballon D'Or, 1 Serie A POTY
Iniesta - 0 Ballon D'Ors, 0 La Liga POTYs (Messi won 9)
Whist playing internationally
Zidane - I WC golden ball, 1 Euros Best player
Iniesta - 0 WC Golden balls, 1 Euros Best player
It's a team sport.
I love Iniesta, but It's not clear at all, for the reasons i stated
I mean, the last statement is clearly false. Even if you take the most basic metric of 'goals', Zidane has considerably more in less games. And more than double the goals internationally, also in less games. And he's far from a prolific scorer.
Whip out the Fifa Plus, chief. Holding your nose.
The 1994 team are unfairly pilloried and brightened up an already excellent championship.
86 were a great side. I've even forgiven Josimar for chipping our Pat on his birthday.
A lot of top players in the Magnificent Magyar side.
Pele scored 1279 goals in 80 different countries and played against all the top people of his era, Moore, Beckenbauer, Yashin, etc.
Maradona played in arguably the strongest league that has ever existed.
Pele, Maradona and Messi are on the same tier. Who one thinks is the best is a matter of opinion, but they are on the same tier.
- Messi
- C Ronaldo
- Ronaldinho
- R9 Ronaldo
- Zidane
- Henry
- Iniesta
- Scholes
- Xavi
- Rooney
This thread is bizarre, but needed.
Ronaldo fanboys really underrate that 2006-2009 side. Fergie in 2006 called the strongest team he'd ever assembled and was before he added to it. Strongest defense in the world. Giggs and Scholes were world class, getting old but had great longevity. Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Berbatov to choose from up front. Tons of squad depth and Fergie was the master at elevating players.
And Barca lost to 2 league titles in a row to a Real Madrid side that was not at its peak of its powers before Pep took over despite having Iniesta, Xavi, Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto etc.
1. Messi
2.C. Ronaldo
3. Maradona
4. Zidane
5. R9
6. Pele
7. Cruyff
8. George Best
9. Maldini
10. Di Stefano
2.C. Ronaldo
3. Maradona
4. Zidane
5. R9
6. Pele
7. Cruyff
8. George Best
9. Maldini
10. Di Stefano
Beckenbauer, Charlton, Puskas, Ronaldinho, Roberto Baggio, Van Basten, Cantona all deserve a mention . Its so tough. Why we love football because we all have different opinions on this.Best certainly had one of the most insane peaks in history of football but overall his peak was way too short and his decline was way too steep. Even between 1970 and 1972, when his numbers were still brilliant, he was already not the same untouchable flying winger with endless amount of energy and tricks, more like an extremely gifted but already a tad lazy technician, providing fans with a (fairly regular) moments of magic here and there.
Even the guys like Ronaldinho had more longevity at the top level. Still, If I want entertainment, I'd pick 04/05 Dinho on the left, 67/68 Best on the right and 86/87 Maradona with 97/98 Luis Ronaldo centrally though, not sure if you can top that if all you want is to sit back and enjoy watching some guys kick the ball around without a second thought.
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I wish I saw Bestie play. Law as well...from the footage I've seen of him he's one of the most underrated players of all time. But yeah a team containing Maradona, Ronaldo original, Best and Dinho would be insane. And in Maradona and Best's case two players who were tough as nails and all. Players just don't get that treatment anymore.
I wish I saw Bestie play. Law as well...from the footage I've seen of him he's one of the most underrated players of all time. But yeah a team containing Maradona, Ronaldo original, Best and Dinho would be insane. And in Maradona and Best's case two players who were tough as nails and all. Players just don't get that treatment anymore.
That's a good post. These days fans just look at numbers without context. Also players back then we're shot by age of 30 due to the physical/aggressive nature of the game.
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I can only provide my first two tiers (in alphabetical order!). After that it gets too murky. To me there’s probably 20 viable candidates for spots 7-10.
Maradonna
Messi
Pele
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
di Stefano
Maradonna
Messi
Pele
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
di Stefano
So many people ignoring how modern super teams have led to exaggerated individual stats making comparisons based on goals + assists across generations when talent was more evenly spread makes these threads pointless.
My point was rather that you said Robaldo's knee injury was his saving grace because of his lifestyle when a player you have in your top 4 only trained twice a week because he was too busy snorting coke and getting drunk. Who knows how Maradona's career would have went on had he suffered a serioursly grave injury. After all, Ronaldo also had two of the absolute best individual world cup performances in 1998 and 2002. And many already claimef he was the best in history back then as well, just like it was the case with Maradona after 86.
Worth mentioning as well that Inter's physicians claim that Ronaldo showed remarkable dedication and professionalism in his rehabilitation process after the knee injury. Apparently he worked tirelessly on his comeback back then.
Tier 1: Messi, Pele, Maradona
Tier 2: Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano
Tier 2: Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano
Messi
Pelé
Cristiano
Maradona
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo
Iniesta
Zidane
Toni Kroos
Johan Cruijff
* Considered but not included: Romario, Thierry Henry.
Pelé
Cristiano
Maradona
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo
Iniesta
Zidane
Toni Kroos
Johan Cruijff
* Considered but not included: Romario, Thierry Henry.
C Ronaldo
Messi
Maradona
Zidane
Pele
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
L Ronaldo
Di Stefano
Best
Messi
Maradona
Zidane
Pele
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
L Ronaldo
Di Stefano
Best
Any tier one that doesn't include C.Ronaldo is invalid let's be real.
Messi
C.Ronaldo
Pele
Maradona
....
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Cruyff
.......
Romario
Best
Zidane
I tried to consider influence on the game, talent and longevity also while making the list.
So many names on my mind to include in tier 2 like Maldini, Beckanbaur, Henry, puskas etc but we want a list of just ten names so.. but I don't think ten names for this sort of list is fair.
Messi
C.Ronaldo
Pele
Maradona
....
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Cruyff
.......
Romario
Best
Zidane
I tried to consider influence on the game, talent and longevity also while making the list.
So many names on my mind to include in tier 2 like Maldini, Beckanbaur, Henry, puskas etc but we want a list of just ten names so.. but I don't think ten names for this sort of list is fair.
Oof, a real rollercoaster post!
This and that is invalid and “let's be real”... followed by no Alfredo Di Stéfano or Franz Beckenbauer in the Top 10?
Why should Ferenc Puskás be in Tier 2, when players with lesser talent and weaker resumés are in Tier 1?
- Age 19: already scoring more than a goal per game.
- Age 22: scores almost 60 goals in a season for club and country.
- Age 23: can't play in the 1950 World Cup as Hungary withdraw from the competition for political reasons. Has just scored 23 goals in 14 matches for Hungary, so very much in the form of his life.
- Age 25: wins the Olympics when it meant something.
- Age 27: World Cup Golden Ball and runner-up. Also helps Hungary defeat England by margin of 13—4, a real watershed moment.
- Age 29: At this point he has a record 84 goals in international matches (no one will touch this for decades). And Hungary has lost just 1 match in the last 6 years. Puskás is arguably the greatest player in football history, already.
- Age 31: joins Real Madrid.
- Age 33: wins the European Cup.
- Age 34: wins his second European Cup. Also the top scorer, and scores 4 goals in the final.
- Age 39: wins his third European Cup, leading the new generation of Real Madrid.
I like you!
As a Bayern fan, would you agree that had Gerd Muller had those accolades, records & stats he had in Bundesliga, European Cup, World Cup and Euros in today's stat obsessed generation (if he played in this era), he would be considered a rival to Messi as a GOAT candidate?
I'd think he would win 4-5 Ballon D'ors in this era and Beckenbauer probably 1 at most, opposite of 70s.
Thinking of tiers, longevity, impact maybe international achievements are overrated sometimes? If you look at Maradona and Zidane for example they exploded brightes on the biggest stage but their league achievements and longevity was noting exceptional compared to some other greats. Ronaldinho I love him to bits but such a short and explosive peak. Then defenders not getting any real recognition. Also goalkeepers. So many exceptional players that you cannot decide on who to pick in all time top ten. Depends on criteria.
I would go with tier 1 in no particular order:
Maradona
Messi
Pele
C. Ronaldo
Tier 2
Cruyff
Di Stefano
Ronaldo
Tier 3
Best
Maldini
Buffon
I would go with tier 1 in no particular order:
Maradona
Messi
Pele
C. Ronaldo
Tier 2
Cruyff
Di Stefano
Ronaldo
Tier 3
Best
Maldini
Buffon
No, I don’t think so. I mean he was „only“ the second best player in his own team.
As a Bayern fan, would you agree that had Gerd Muller had those accolades, records & stats he had in Bundesliga, European Cup, World Cup and Euros in today's stat obsessed generation (if he played in this era), he would be considered a rival to Messi as a GOAT candidate?
I'd think he would win 4-5 Ballon D'ors in this era and Beckenbauer probably 1 at most, opposite of 70s.
He was absolutely fantastic though and far more of an allrounder than people sometimes give him credit for. His goal record is more impressive than C. Ronaldo‘s btw. To me he is top 20 but not top 6. That top 6 is set in stone for me.
We could use a Venn diagram at this point. Best of his generation, stats/scores/records, silverware in the Big stage (maybe one for clubs and one for NT) as the main circles.