Toni Kroos | Retired

[Kinsella]

The thing is, Kroos is not getting cancelled for these words. It's right wing populists who have you believing he is because it drives their narrative that they themselves are being cancelled. You don't have to agree with Kroos but if you voice your concerns in this fashion, nobody will demonise you. Well, "nobody" is exaggerated because you will always find one or two who will but it won't be a majority.

What you're (rightfully) being cancelled for by the lefts is scapegoating immigrants for problems they have nothing to do with just to deflect attention from the actual issues. You know, for example when people blame immigrants/refugees for unaffordable housing prices while wealth is distributed completely unfairly and corrupt politicians/lobbyists rip the public off billions of tax money with nobody batting an eye. Or blame sexual violence on immigrants as if European men weren't every bit as bad. As somebody said earlier, easy answers for complicated problems. Kroos didn't do that, he even pointed out how complicated that topic is. Many will not agree with what he said, which is fine, but he won't be cancelled.

That kind of sentiment hints at what I’m talking about though. You’re assuming that the ‘actual issues’ you mention are indeed the actual issues of concern in society and that other people who don’t agree are simply blinded to this obvious truth or perhaps just too ignorant to realise it. Invariably these ‘actual issues’ revolve around material concerns which again assumes that people are all just born again Thatcherites who care only about money and material things.

You then go on to talk about wealth as if it just exists…like it’s floating out there in the ether perhaps, and that the wealthy have just commandeered this vastly disproportionate amount from what was, or is (and should be), a common pot. This too is mostly a nonsense.

I agree with you on the sexual violence point however. That’s usually used as a trope by bad actors and/or ethno-nationalists to forward their particular agenda.

 

[Zehner]

That kind of sentiment hints at what I’m talking about though. You’re assuming that the ‘actual issues’ you mention are indeed the actual issues of concern in society and that other people who don’t agree are simply blinded to this obvious truth or perhaps just too ignorant to realise it. Invariably these ‘actual issues’ revolve around material concerns which again assumes that people are all just born again Thatcherites who care only about money and material things.

You then go on to talk about wealth as if it just exists…like it’s floating out there in the ether perhaps, and that the wealthy have just commandeered a vastly disproportionate amount from what was, or is (and should be), a common pot. This too is mostly a nonsense.

Wealth doesn't just float out there in the ether, it is created by human beings. Money as the quantification of supply and demand makes the value you created tradeable, allowing specialization and economies of scale. So in theory, based on the law of supply and demand, the money you get paid reflects the value you create for society. Anyway, the idea that this market mechanism assigns fair monetary values to products and services is based on the principles that a) human beings act rationally and b) everybody is making decisions based on the same available information and both is wrong. And as a consequence, wealth is as objective unfairly distributed as possible. The market mechanism favors those with a) more information available and b) better negotiational leverage. And since few human beings act rationally, the profiters from this are able to deflect attention from them and turn the poor against each other. I mean, I get that "fairness" is essentially a subjective concept but there are some basic rules that are commonly agreed on across all cultures. And if you look at the current situation objectively, it is so far away from the average understanding of fairness that many opinions can only be explained by blindness to the truth. Whether that truth is obvious or not is a different case.

For example, in German politics there is currently a corruption scandal taking place around the former minister of health Jens Spahn. They guy is a frequent guest in German talkshows and one of his favorite topic right now is the new welfare system, claiming that "work has to be worth it again". His bottom line: A family on welfare currently has only slightly less money to spend than a family on minimum wage, so we have to reduce welfare payments as well as payments to refugees/immigrants. Meanwhile, his corruption scandal will cost the pay taxer around €3.5bn (!), the equivalent of annual welfare payments to 500.000 citizens. And few are talking about this scandal or the fact that the conclusion of "work has to be worth it again" could be to increase minimum wages, no, people direct their anger towards welfare receivers. Honestly, if you are looking at this objectively, it is so far away from any concept of fairness that the idea this is just can only be classified as an irrational and as such an objective wrong take.

 

[HisNameIsEarl]

The thing is, Kroos is not getting cancelled for these words. It's right wing populists who have you believing he is because it drives their narrative that they themselves are being cancelled. You don't have to agree with Kroos but if you voice your concerns in this fashion, nobody will demonise you. Well, "nobody" is exaggerated because you will always find one or two who will but it won't be a majority.

What you're (rightfully) being cancelled for by the lefts is scapegoating immigrants for problems they have nothing to do with just to deflect attention from the actual issues. You know, for example when people blame immigrants/refugees for unaffordable housing prices while wealth is distributed completely unfairly and corrupt politicians/lobbyists rip the public off billions of tax money with nobody batting an eye. Or blame sexual violence on immigrants as if European men weren't every bit as bad. As somebody said earlier, easy answers for complicated problems. Kroos didn't do that, he even pointed out how complicated that topic is. Many will not agree with what he said, which is fine, but he won't be cancelled.

He's quite far from being cancelled - he is promoted honorary member of every "Rentnerstammtisch" at the age of 34.

Now, one of the problems of our days is, what happens on Rentnerstammtisch doesn't stay on Rentnerstammtisch any longer, but is spread on social and other media ad infinitum.

Happy were the days when you could keep yourself away from Rentnerstammtisch, they are gone.

 

[moses]

Freudian slip?

In all seriousness though…I do think that we’re almost in Orwellian territory when it comes to that particular issue.

We are, and in my opinion, it's largely because there is so much actual racism couched in palatable language, it's hard to know what is concern and what is dog whistling. So there is a knee-jerk to shut it down.

 

[Kwabs]

Yes, if you dare to say that mass immigration to Europe has been anything but the social equivalent of candy cotton, you are sentenced to public spanking, butt naked.

Maybe European countries should stop bombing, colonising, taking the resources of, and otherwise meddling in the countries that these immigrants come from? That might help a bit.

 

[Winrar]

Who is “you guys”, its literally just me, I speak for myself only, I and I.

There are topics I lean left on, some of them are completely unconditional, and there are topics I lean right, to me that seems normal, more people should be that way.

Regarding the fantasy comment, well, Toni is a beautiful man so you may have a point there.

I’m anti politics in general, politicians are some of the worst people in the world, the problem is humanity is hundreds years away from being able to function in a society where there is real justice and every human being takes responsibility for their action, anarchy.

Also no one should be cancelled over topics like this, whether you were sarcastic or not.

Germany is cool, we all love your cheap speed and beer and currywurst, and you folks really know how to party but its obviously an unusual place, given the history, so it sort of makes sense that certain topics are very extreme.

Thankfully I live in a place where we can still say whatever we want (not merica) and make dark jokes like its ninety nineteen fecking four and offend each other slightly, and its fine, being offended is a human experience, its part of our trip on this wee sphere sailing through space.

But, tbh we all have our red lines and triggers, to you it may be immigration, to me its cruelty to animals and violence against Women.

As for Toni Kroos, I believe he deserves a far better retirement topic that this, but it is what it is.
I still dream on what could’ve been if Moyes never got sacked and we could enjoy the Kroos - Fellaini pivot for years to come.

Actually it looks like he’s getting more sympathy and support than otherwise from what I’ve seen. Even in the comments on that linked video couple pages ago, most of the liked comments are supporting him, from what cursory German I understand.

At worst it’s a 50/50. You really won’t have to worry about him getting cancelled.

 

[Shark]

Maybe European countries should stop bombing, colonising, taking the resources of, and otherwise meddling in the countries that these immigrants come from? That might help a bit.

The EU has allocated €181.5 million this year for humanitarian aid in Africa.

 

[backpass]

I wouldnt let my 16 year daughter walk alone in Stuttgart in the dark. And yes, that has changed in the last 10 years. Stuttgart is by no means one of the unsavest cities, but yes if you look at 11 pm at the Freitreppe Schlossplatz which for many years was a popular meeting place for young people, today you have there quite an aggressive crowd of young man with unpleasent behaviour against especially young woman/girls and even with big police presence it is not really getting better.

I find it highly disturbing, that as soon someone says sth like my statement, he is instantly labeled as rightwing or worse.
Its a reality and while he spoke quite general I can absolutely see where he was coming from.

 

[moses]

If any of ye want to discuss the retired footballer Toni Kroos, open a thread. If anyone wants to discuss Toni Kroos the social commentator, do so in the Current Events forum.