I am like a hysterical child throwing a tantrum?.................
I have no idea what that means.
Tom Cleverley | 2014/15 Performances (on loan at Aston Villa)
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Exactly.
It's that feeling, somewhere between sheepishness and utter embarrassment, that you are feeling right now. Why? Because everyone can see that your argument has been torn to shreds and you've been made to look like an utter moron.
Whilst it's sad to see a local lad go, he's just not good enough, and I think he knew it. I don't agree with people saying that he didn't try, because I think he gave his all every time he played, the problem was that his all isn't that good. I think he was acutely aware of his general lack of ability compared to what was expected, which was reflected by him appearing to not want to play a forward pass or try and take someone on. He was scared of failing, and as such, was completely unambitious with pretty much everything he did on the pitch. I wish him well for his future. A fresh start might help him regain some confidence and he might start looking more like that creative centre mid we thought he was going to be.
@Red Pheonix Rising I think you are taking all the comments far too seriously.. Newly promoted I had the same problem/confusion. Just go with the flow, if someone is abusive or out of order towards any player etc, Mods will take care of it.
Sorry, but some guy on a forum making an absolute tool of himself isn't to high on my priority list. Nothing personal, if you don't like Cleveley and want to lash out and make silly (funny?) remarks about someone you'll probably never meet in your entire life then go ahead, you'll only look even more the tool. I think it's sad that you regularly watch a guy kick a ball around during the week and on a weekend and these are the emotions it conjures up.
If you want to call me a child and that I am throwing a tantrum then more power to you. Try not to do it before chucking a massive wobbly yourself next time.
Good to know. Genuine 'well, that is a rather grim existance' look on my face right now over that one. Thanks!
@Red Pheonix Rising I think you are taking all the comments far too seriously.. Newly promoted I had the same problem/confusion. Just go with the flow, if someone is abusive or out of order towards any player etc, Mods will take care of it.
I apologise for laughing at him earlier but, let me explain...
I've seen Brian McClair go into midfield and do a better job then "TC23"
I've seen Lee Sharpe do a better job in midfield then "TC23"
I've seen Giggs, O Shea,Phil Neville, Johnson, to name a few, go into midfield and do better then "TC23"
Cleverley offers nothing in defence, nothing in attack, his "hollywood" 5 yard sideways passes mean jack shit. Even before "that" tackle, he wasn't very good. With the exception of the City CS game.
I wanted this guy to do well. I wanted him to be the first name on the team sheet, purely because he was "home grown" but he's utterly useless to us!.....Sounds harsh? But it's the truth!
And people going on about Kevin Davis:
1. We had Eric, Pally, Bruce, Stam, Keane, Robbo, Moran, McGrath, Irwin, Neville, Parker, Hughes, Ince, McClair, Johnson, even Alan Smith who used to kick people around the place
2. If Cleverley can't get over a tackle made 3 years ago, it says a lot about him
3. I don't hate the guy. I don't know him but, as a player, he is a coward! Only time I've ever seen him call for the ball was around 20 yards from our goal, he'd turn around and pass it back to said player who passed it to him...Arsenal last year, attacking in the final minute. 5 vs 4 in our favour, and he passes it back to Carrick. The one time I agreed with Moyes(watch his reaction) ....When I call him a coward, I remember on here, after the Munich game in 2010, 99% of people here called Carrick a coward for not blocking Robben's shot properly....What does that say about Cleverley
But funnily enough, I don't blame him....As I said in the MK Done thread, what the hell are our players learning at under age level?!
I've seen Brian McClair go into midfield and do a better job then "TC23"
I've seen Lee Sharpe do a better job in midfield then "TC23"
I've seen Giggs, O Shea,Phil Neville, Johnson, to name a few, go into midfield and do better then "TC23"
Cleverley offers nothing in defence, nothing in attack, his "hollywood" 5 yard sideways passes mean jack shit. Even before "that" tackle, he wasn't very good. With the exception of the City CS game.
I wanted this guy to do well. I wanted him to be the first name on the team sheet, purely because he was "home grown" but he's utterly useless to us!.....Sounds harsh? But it's the truth!
And people going on about Kevin Davis:
1. We had Eric, Pally, Bruce, Stam, Keane, Robbo, Moran, McGrath, Irwin, Neville, Parker, Hughes, Ince, McClair, Johnson, even Alan Smith who used to kick people around the place
2. If Cleverley can't get over a tackle made 3 years ago, it says a lot about him
3. I don't hate the guy. I don't know him but, as a player, he is a coward! Only time I've ever seen him call for the ball was around 20 yards from our goal, he'd turn around and pass it back to said player who passed it to him...Arsenal last year, attacking in the final minute. 5 vs 4 in our favour, and he passes it back to Carrick. The one time I agreed with Moyes(watch his reaction) ....When I call him a coward, I remember on here, after the Munich game in 2010, 99% of people here called Carrick a coward for not blocking Robben's shot properly....What does that say about Cleverley
But funnily enough, I don't blame him....As I said in the MK Done thread, what the hell are our players learning at under age level?!
Nothing?... Nothing? I mean come on now - lets not rewrite history. It's almost as bad as the Fellaini thread in here.
A bit off topic, but taking a swipe at all the U21 teams is unfair. They have done well in recent times and a lot of the blame for the MK Dons game falls with the manager as well. We did the same vs Palace a few years ago under Fergie and got dumped out.
You're still doing it!
This is amazing. It might be the best meltdown in weeks.
Most people know Cleverly is a bit shit and will be happy enough to see him go but you're acting like someone's run over your dog.
Just give up kid, white knighting all over young Tom just isn't doing you any favors and you're getting worked up over nothing.
Tell me, what does he offer? I'm Irish and I hate Glen Whelan with a passion but, he offers more then Cleverley
No that came across wrong...I listed all the academy players we've brought through over the last 30 years in the MK Dons thread..In the thread my point was, what the hell are the scouts doing at that level...And to be honest, I believe it's a fair question, what the hell is going on down there?
Since Fletch and O Shea, we've produced Januzaj and Pogba....That is awful for a team who prides itself on youth....But different topic, different thread. My bad
I still struggle to see any meltdown here apart from yours on the previous page. This whole 'meltdown' thing is very strange to me.
I see what you did there. Not bad...
If he sticks around on a for a free transfer, I imagine a tribunal would probably give us 3+ million or more, which probably isnt far of what Everton would try to low ball us with at the moment.
This might be a bit sensitive from me, but some of the 'celebration' on him leaving (which might still not happen) was over the top and a bit disrespectful. "Get the feck out" is a bit harsh on Tom. Yeah he won't see it, but I bet a load of people on Twitter or whatever will have done similar. He did play his part in the 2012/13 winning side and I think after all the criticism he has received deserves a, "he isn't good enough, but good luck to him". I know people will probably ridicule this post, but whatever.
One question that has not been asked enough here....
Why was he kept, put on big wages and Pogba wasn't?
I don't want a Pogba debate again (There's been enough) but, it's a fair question
Why was he kept, put on big wages and Pogba wasn't?
I don't want a Pogba debate again (There's been enough) but, it's a fair question
Wow, are you okay? Look, just go have a cup of tea and a wee sit down. This madness can't be doing your BP any good at all.
Fair post....Nowt to ridicule nor should anyone ridicule people's opinions!
He deleted his Twitter btw awhile ago
Hold on, I thought tribunals were only for players who were 24 or younger? If Cleverley leaves for free next season, I think we will get nothing from it.
I wonder why
Could be worse...Check out Lineker's page.
Anytime he tweets something, he gets these responses:
"Shat on pitch"
"Shat on wife"
"Shat on walkers"
"Shat on crisp"
I feel like we're just covering old ground here but in the old scheme of things he would have been a classic central midfielder in the attacking role. Think Keane and Scholes, the attacking half of that. (Okay okay! It's a positional reference not talent and ability!) Now I think playing in that role at Watford he scored goals so it can be forgiven that it was the championship but it's something none the less. Wide left at Wigan he was actually pretty good with the quick release and get forward wing role that he played and he played more as a AM than a proper central player in the way I described it above.
Right now, I personally think that in this system he would benefit more playing as the AM/10 in this side. He doesn't have the defensive ability to be constantly dueling for the ball in deep areas then to break forward with short pass and move. Especially with a 10 he just ends up right beside the 10 waiting calling for the ball and usually the pass goes to the 10 instead of him. So in a system where the defensive position was reinforced and the load was taken off him and he was able to interact with a midfielder and go forward in that way (much like with Anderson) I think that would go a fair way to fixing him. Whether we have the time or the investment to go with that of course is out of his hands. He's not a regular 'main' squad player so building the system around him is moot, it won't happen. We've got too many 10's to move away from a proper string pulling 10 formation. In this day and age under stress and lacking confidence I just don't see him as an 8 without a midfield that takes the focus off him defending.
I suppose if we were to buy a 6 and put him there and play Herrera and Cleverley in front of him without a number 10 and Rooney dropping deep the way he does I think that could work potentially. I doubt it's going to happen though. The guy passes and shows for passes a lot, re-watch the Sunderland game and see just how many times he's stood there calling for the ball off Fletch even visibly getting the shits a few times that he's not played in. He fought for the ball a few times and won it as well, it must be tough in his situation.
I'm not and have never been saying he's a potential world beater but 'nothing' is harsh if you ask me. There is something there, just have to dig it out.
This is pretty much how I feel, the personal stuff means naught to me. Certain 'celebrationists' just make themselves look like idiots. It speaks for itself.
No. He used to be one of my fav players when in the youth/reserve side, and was considered be the big deal when he rang rings around Yaya in the Community Shield. It's just a shame that it didn't work out.
He's 25, we wouldn't get any fee at all if he left on a free. Has to be under 24 for that.
I don't feel sorry for Cleverley. He's a big boy on big boy wages. He'll be fine wherever he ends up at. I just hope its not at United.
Very well thought out post and points are made very well but, I disagree.
Tom Cleverley is not Manchester United quality..And except for that City CS game, I never thought he was
Good point, very well made
Big wages in relation to what? Is this the same argument as 'Felaini on big wages'?
Eh? Welbeck & Evans are regulars in the first team. Cleverley has been here longer than a lot of other academy products. Blackett and Wilson look here to stay. You can't have a class of 92 every generation. Chelsea and City don't really have anyone coming through their ranks and haven't for a while. Liverpool hadn't had anyone regular since Gerrard until Sterling came along. Aside from Arsenal, we're the only top side that have regularly had youngsters making it to their first team squad. Everton and Spurs have had a few, but they're not exactly top level.
There's even an argument for Rafael and Fabio. Pique and Rossi both spent time in the youth set up as 17 year olds. We signed Jones and Shaw as 19 year olds. Even when we've not produced them from our academy, we've definitely been far more willing to give youth a chance than other top sides in the PL. Arsenal are probably the only real rivals in this regard, and Wenger's probably been guilty of being over-reliant or over-confident in their ability to produce, hence Arsenal spending the last few years trophy-less and in 4th.
You only have to look around the PL, Championship and some of the other top flights to see how many of our products are having decent careers. The likes of Brady, Chester, James, Macheda, Daehli, Eikrem and Gibson are all carving out decent careers, as well as many others from years gone by.
We can disagree, I don't know about your Manchester United quality though, seems like it could mean anything. You could go through hundreds of imports and not ever find 'Manchester United quality' there. If he comes good, what then? 'Was never Manchester United quality' but a good player?
I don't think it's criminal to hope that he does a bit better than he's doing right now.
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It doesn't bother me that some people are tickled pink that "TC23" is gone. I was annoyed too when he seemed to go Hollywood on us. I'm just sad that he never fulfilled the promise that he had before Davies took him down. I'm not claiming Scholes or Iniesta promise, but just enough promise to be a solid regular for us for a long time while we rebuild a great squad around him.
But there's no doubt that Cleverley regressed and then kept regressing. He had to go. I understand the desire for some to party over this news.
But there's no doubt that Cleverley regressed and then kept regressing. He had to go. I understand the desire for some to party over this news.
Not about the class of 92 at all....Players like Bardsley, Richardson etc etc were always good enough to play premier league football. Not for us, but good footballers all the same....All the scouting and all the "we've signed such and such" over the last 4-5 years has been dross! That's my point! We used to produce premier league quality players at ease....Hasn't happened in God only knows. Januzaj is still young. It can go either way. Wilson looks a quality player though. Chap looks fearless
In comparison to Tom Cleverley, I've seen Sharpe, McClair, Beckham, Johnson, Giggs, O Shea, Smith, Phill Neville and Fortune give better performances in midfield, then I have Tom Cleverley
I heard people say Richardson would be the next Ashley Cole and I myself thought Chris Eagles could have made it at United. I feel this is a pretty loose barometer to be running Cleverley through. Time is on his side at least, if he is awarded a new contract. From here I am not sure what else he can do in that regard. Not move, play his heart out this season and leave on a free.
Been on some Villa forums. Generally they aren't really happy with the buy, mostly due to the fee involved which they feel is to high.
Every single match, he plays like a youth player that got thrown into the first team due to a injury crisis.
My point is, these were all players played in midfield, completely out of position and out of their comfort zone and still done better then Cleverley....And he's a midfielder.
Lee Sharpe (Miss the guy) was an out and out winger! Could do a decent job at LB and was actually half decent in midfield....Still a better player then TC in that role.....Fortune, Neville. Same thing applies
So essentially we are ready to sell and he just has to choose from Villa, Everton and Hull?
I hear you. The old cliché 'the games gone n' changed'.
I thought Sharpey started out as a fullback and converted.I miss him too. We could do with someone like him today.
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