Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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amolbhatia100 said:
Well he's IMO clearly most similar to the likes of Scholes, Xavi and Iniesta in terms of playing style. He's a diminutive midfielder who relies on his ability to think extremely quickly, use his vision and pass the ball accurately. There's definitely a bit of those players in him. He's even commented about trying to learn from the way they play. And you can see it in how he does.

However, they aren't legends of the game because of just those attributes and that's why he's nowhere near their level right now. They are players who are well rounded and brilliant in many more areas than just those three (for example, Scholes' goal threat/long passing and Iniesta's dribbling) and know how to control big games and also have proper positional discipline. Also, they're more talented in those three aspects than him as well.

So yeah, he's not at that level. But he's in that mould for me. They're complete genuses. He's just a talented young player who shares some similarities.
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Fair enough he shares a few similarities (diminutive???) but you could say that about a lot of good midfielders. I don't think his playing style is similar to Scholes or Xavi not really. Cleverley is more box to box or a carrier so to speak. He picks up the ball, gives it and goes...or even carries it through the midfield. He is more of a link player than the two greats you mention and as you say he doesn't possess as varied attributes.

This is why I mentioned Keane. He had the ability and drive to be a link between defence and attack, he was very box to box up until about 2001 when Veron was bought in. He wasn't exceptional technically but he was more than competent. He was also very clever and at times pragmatic in his distribution of the ball. Cleverley mirrors this in his play.
 
Nobody commenting? Think he's having a good game tonight, looking lively, keeping possession well and getting back defensively. Big season ahead for Tom.
 
Walrus said:
Nobody commenting? Think he's having a good game tonight, looking lively, keeping possession well and getting back defensively. Big season ahead for Tom.
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Yeah, but it's pretty much what you expect from him in every game. It's only injuries that can hold him back. Fingers crossed.
 
Walrus said:
Nobody commenting? Think he's having a good game tonight, looking lively, keeping possession well and getting back defensively. Big season ahead for Tom.
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I'm one of Tom's biggest fans but I strongly disagree with this. He's having almost no impact on the game from the advanced midfield position and is looking increasingly frustrated/isolated being so far ahead of the play. His influence on the game would be a lot better if he was playing in the heart of midfield as he does for us.
 
Walrus said:
Nobody commenting? Think he's having a good game tonight, looking lively, keeping possession well and getting back defensively. Big season ahead for Tom.
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Aye, it's a quiet night on the Caf.
 
He was good in the first half; now Italy are getting really tight on him; quite a big compliment for Tom that.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
He was good in the first half; now Italy are getting really tight on him; quite a big compliment for Tom that.
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They were getting tight from the off. De Rossi almost Kevin Davies'd him after 2 minutes. The difference now is that the ball is simply nowhere near him most of the time. This invariably happens to Tom when he's not played in a role when he's guaranteed to see a lot of the ball e.g. centre midfield.
 
English players have a painful lack of passing vision, there have been several times when Cleverley has been in great positions but our lads just don't see him or have the technique to find him.
 
Keano was really impressed with his first half performance, he liked his movement and intelligence.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Keano was really impressed with his first half performance, he liked his movement and intelligence.
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If Keano is impressed, then he must have had an stormer.
 
I'm always right said:
Tom?

I didn't watch the game but the beeb said he was our best performer in the first half.
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First half was good but the whole performance from both teams became disjointed in the second half. All in - he has impressed me greatly this pre season.
 
Keane also mentioned he was "outstanding".

And he knows a thing or two about playing in midfield.
 
Played well tonight, I don't think he gave the ball away once and every time he passed it he moved to give the team an option.
 
Tom did well tonight. We know he would prefer to play deeper where he would see more of the ball and was starved of it at times. However he worked hard in terms of pressing for ninety minutes and when he did see the ball he showed good composure and link up play.

Its a compliment to him that one of the best DMs in the world had to pay such close attention to him and at times struggled with his movement. Good debut for him imo.
 
Devil may care said:
Played well tonight, I don't think he gave the ball away once and every time he passed it he moved to give the team an option.
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He gave the ball away a few times actually. I was probably being harsh with the being shite comment but he didn't look as good as he did for Team GB where I thought he was outstanding.

But this is just one game. I do worry that a few here are expecting too much from Clev though - can he become a true United great? All rival supporters I speak to think he's a good player but nothing special.
 
Pogue in red tinted specs shocker.

And did you read my post above? I admit that post was harsh but I fear we are all bigging Clev up a little to much around here.

But you have history of that, what with your obsession with Jonny Evans being the next Nesta :lol:
 
Plan M said:
He gave the ball away a few times actually. I was probably being harsh with the being shite comment but he didn't look as good as he did for Team GB where I thought he was outstanding.

But this is just one game. I do worry that a few here are expecting too much from Clev though - can he become a true United great? All rival supporters I speak to think he's a good player but nothing special.
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Rival supporters have said this about a few of our players over the years.

By a few I mean every single fecking one.
 
Plan M said:
Pogue in red tinted specs shocker.

And did you read my post above? I admit that post was harsh but I fear we are all bigging Clev up a little to much around here.

But you have history of that, what with your obsession with Jonny Evans being the next Nesta :lol:
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If you think people are bigging him too much, say so.

Your opinion on his performance tonight was fecking clueless.
 
I can see where Plan M comes from when he says that people do overrate him here, but that doesn't make him an average player by any means. There are some who are overrated a lot more than him and there are no doubts of his potential talent in my opinion. It does naturally happen with fans when they have a talented youngster.

I can't comment on how he played tonight as I was watching the Scotland game, however it sounds like he played well.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Keane also mentioned he was "outstanding".

And he knows a thing or two about playing in midfield.
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It's because he sees a bit of himself in Cleverley. Keane doesn't dish out praise without good reason.

For the record I thought he had a good debut against a fine side. Playing against top drawer midfield opponents will clearly improve him quickly.
 
Really all this Cleverley is overrated here nonsense has to stop. He ws overrated last season but after the injury struggles people have been a lot more realistic about him.
 
Plan M said:
But this is just one game. I do worry that a few here are expecting too much from Clev though - can he become a true United great? All rival supporters I speak to think he's a good player but nothing special.
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Do you think the general opinion from United fans is that Cleverley is special and/or going to be a true United great? Seems to me like you've taken the opinion of a tiny minority of fans and applied it to the majority, just so you could talk down to so and so with their 'tinted specs'.
 
Put it this way, he offers a different option and style to all of the midfielders we have at the moment. In that he doesn't stay static for one, that's why he's highly rated
 
All I can hope for him this season is that he stays fully fit all the way through ... the talent is undoubtedly there and getting to play and fighting for a place will definitely bring out the best in him. Have high hopes for the lad and the good news is that he realizes that this is a critical year for him.
 
Played well tonight. Nothing spectacular, but was one of England's best players.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/aug/15/tom-cleverley-england-italy?CMP=twt_gu

Fearless Tom Cleverley swift to show his class for England against Italy

The 23-year-old midfielder was not fazed on his debut for the senior team despite being pitted against the battle-hardened Daniele de Rossi


Tom Cleverley had cut and pasted a newspaper cutting on to his Facebook page before kick-off that summed up his thrill of the debut to come. It depicted one of the anticipated head-to-heads from the friendly with the Azzurri, a duel that pitted the fresh-faced youngster against the grizzled, battle-hardened Daniele de Rossi: a collision between a man with 76 caps against a boy with none. Yet, even 85 seconds into his international career, it was very clear Cleverley feels comfortable in this company.

By then the Manchester United midfielder was already picking himself from the turf with a wave of disgust offered towards the Swiss official, his flash of intuitive skill having hoodwinked Italy's captain for the night. De Rossi had ploughed through him regardless that the ball had long gone, a crunching tackle from behind that, if not necessarily intentional, would at least normally serve as a warning to any young pretender keen to dazzle. It said much about Cleverley's self-confidence that he did not shrink thereafter. This chance, even at 23, has been a long time coming and had to be taken.

Cleverley has already publicly conceded this must be a defining season for him at Old Trafford but, even before the domestic campaign is sparked, he had already been presented with an opportunity to become an essential member of England's future. Roy Hodgson was in experimental mood against the Italians, his team's conquerors at Euro 2012, and the novice had been granted a key role in the side's evolution. Gone was the rigid 4-4-1-1 from Ukraine and, instead, came evidence that the English have players who can thrive in the more fluid and sophisticated surroundings of a 4-2-3-1.

"We do have quality players with good technique," Hodgson had claimed on the eve. His faith in a player who has made only five Premier League starts for Manchester United to revel in that central attacking trio was evidence to back up that conviction. Cleverley has not been employed in the hole for his club. Indeed, with Team GB this month he had busied himself collecting the ball from deep, alongside the impressive Joe Allen, before meandering into more attacking positions. Here he darted into pockets of space, teasing Federico Balzaretti and Angelo Ogbonna when he escaped De Rossi's maniacal stare. The United player buzzed and prompted, fizzing passes to team-mates with the confidence of one who belonged. He appeared to be enjoying himself.

The eagerness was refreshing to behold, though it was also understandable. Had things turned out differently, Cleverley might have imposed the same qualities a year ago only for last summer's surge in form to prove a false dawn. He had dazzled as the then champions recovered a two-goal deficit to eclipse Manchester City in the Community Shield curtain-raiser, would have made his England debut against Holland a few days later only for the game to be postponed due to the London riots, then impressed again in the demolitions of Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal that followed.

Such form hinted at a watershed, yet it was the frustration endured on the sidelines recovering from injury, damage initially sustained in a tackle from Kevin Davies in the rout of Bolton in mid-September, that came to define his campaign. Club appearances were sporadic thereafter, his involvement reduced to cameos in the Spring. An insistence earlier this week that "I was 30 seconds from winning my first Premier League winner's medal" was him painting an optimistic picture. Had he not already sported a crew cut, he would have been tearing his hair out anyway.

His, at least, is an old head on relatively young shoulders. On the pitch, he boasts a maturity that has long been recognised by Sir Alex Ferguson – "He has a great understanding of the game," the United manager had said a year ago" – with his diligent and instinctive tracking back into the space vacated by Frank Lampard when the captain ambled up-field an indication of his thought-process. Off the field of play, he has recognised there is time aplenty ahead to make his mark, even if need only have glanced at the club-mate at his back to comprehend that chances must be seized.

Michael Carrick was making his 23rd England appearance over 11 years since his debut in Sven-Goran Eriksson's first game in charge, his return here a recognition of England's principal failing at Euro 2012: an inability to retain possession. His range of passing is more impressive than that of most, but he has not demanded inclusion enough in the seasons since. He rarely imposes himself on contests at this level. He could be England's metronome, setting their tempo, if he was more dynamic.

Maybe that role still awaits the 31-year-old, who took the armband from Lampard upon his substitution and whose ability to summon flashes of class will surely appeal to Hodgson. Certainly, Cleverley's energy and eager quality on the ball will also be on the manager's mind when it comes to selecting his squad for next month's World Cup qualifiers. One sharp rat-a-tat exchange with Ashley Young and Lampard, culminating in the veteran having a shot saved by Salvatore Sirigu, had demonstrated both his awareness and his potential. He pushed up further in support of Jermaine Defoe after the interval and sought out possession even if he, too, must develop that knack of conjuring magic from occasions this scrappy. Yet he has time on his side. A refusal to cower in De Rossi's presence represented a promising start.
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Just watched the highlights of the game now, saw that challenge. De Rossi is such an absolute cnut. Did any England player pay him back for that ludicrous challenge (in an alleged friendly)?
 
R.Nilsson7 said:
It seems like he's on the receiving end of an akward looking tackle in every game I see him play in. My heart's in my throat everytime!
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tell me about it. FWIW I thought the De Rossi challenge looked worse than Davies' challenge on poor Cleverley...phew tho
 
yeah that challenge at the end of the game!

and the sight of carrick holding his leg after being fouled around the 80 minute mark.:nervous:
 
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