Heck if even Carrick was fit I doubt we'd have seen much of Cleverley in this form.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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Heck if even Carrick was fit I doubt we'd have seen much of Cleverley in this form.
He's got good ball retention but that's about it. Squad player at best unfortunately. But I'd still have him ahead of Fellaini at the moment until Fellaini proves otherwise. Jones and Giggs ahead of him though.
Shitting your knickers and passing it half a yard is not good ball retention. That's not even counting that every time he does pass it, he usually plays the receiver into a tight spot.
Good ball retention my hole.
Real shame. Looked the real deal when coming through and when on loan, albeit a late bloomer.
Looks bereft of confidence at the moment. Maybe United's persistent pursuit of the likes of Tiago and Fabregas in the summer tells him his card is marked.
Difficult to see where his United career goes from here. He's too old for another loan. So he's either sold or will have to accept a very limited role when we almost certainly sign a midfielder.
Looks bereft of confidence at the moment. Maybe United's persistent pursuit of the likes of Tiago and Fabregas in the summer tells him his card is marked.
Difficult to see where his United career goes from here. He's too old for another loan. So he's either sold or will have to accept a very limited role when we almost certainly sign a midfielder.
We had Cleverley v Wilshere and Welbeck v Sturridge.
I still have some hope on this one, though Welbeck should accelerate his developing, something that Sturridge has done in the last year or though.
Cleverley vs Wilshere was nonsense from day one. Neither of them has developed as good as we thought, but even there Cleverley looked like a player who may become a good player (possibly good first team player) for us while Wilshere has mentioned with the likes of Thiago/Gundogan as one who may become one of the best in the world.
I mean even his ball retention, it's only because he passes largely backwards and sideways. I used to really like Cleverley and a while back I genuinely thought he would be a real first team player for us. Just don't know where that guy has gone in last year or so.
To be fair, Sturridge did absolutely nothing until he was given the opportunity in middle. Welbeck hasn't had that opportunity yet. I just don't think he's as clinical as Sturridge is though in any case. It'll be hard for him here as we have Rooney RVP and Hernandez. I fear that the only way he'll work out here is if he develops in his wide role.
I don't mind someone keeping the ball but it's only useful if we're struggling with possession like when he came on in the City match he was great for us or if he's alongside a ball player. For me he would be best in a 3 man midfield. But Cleverley will only amount to a squad player unfortunately, doesn't specialise in anything.
Much like Anderson, Cleverley just has not improved at all. At least fatty has the excuse of a million injuries, where as Cleverley has no excuse - he even gets lots of playing time.....how the feck is that happening. Fellaini must be so shit in training to not get in this current midfield. I know all the top reds will refuse to acknowledge that he is so average, but how much time should we give him?
The problem I have with him and Welbeck is that they would be world class if the point of the game was to maintain possession, but they just don't offer much in the final third.
Non more than most players, and certainly not more than Anderson. I don't think it's an excuse, he just isn't good enough. Hasn't improved one inch.
Based on high energy, good at keeping possession in tight spaces, not a bad tackler......but he's utterly agony to watch in midfield 2 when he is expected to open up defenses which he will never be able to do, starving our world class forwards of any decent service in the process
Fair points too. Maintain he has had injuries when he's been right on top form, which can be demoralizing. But he's been injury free for long enough now to come back from that.
He has shown enough in his tenure at United to be afforded patience from the fans. The development of young players into the finished product is rarely a linear, smooth process.
I'm inclined to give him time because for all his failings so far this season, his fundamentals are rock solid. He can pass, and he is one of the few players in our team that know how to move off the ball. With our disjointed play focused on feeding the ball to Rooney, it's a bit unfair to demand he become this individualistic player ala Gerrard. I'm confident in a fluid system he would thrive, and gain confidence to develop the skill of grabbing the game by the scruff.. yada.
I'm inclined to give him time because for all his failings so far this season, his fundamentals are rock solid. He can pass, and he is one of the few players in our team that know how to move off the ball. With our disjointed play focused on feeding the ball to Rooney, it's a bit unfair to demand he become this individualistic player ala Gerrard. I'm confident in a fluid system he would thrive, and gain confidence to develop the skill of grabbing the game by the scruff.. yada.
To be fair, it was never a contest and anyone who thought it was, was just deluded.
This whole anti Cleverley thing is a mixture of him not performing as people expected but also there is a bit of everyone waiting for a mistake and then hammering him all thread once the first mistake is made. Every player in every game makes a mistake. Cleverleys situation has now reached the point where people are so focussed on when he gets something wrong that they completely miss the good bits. So like the Fletcher scenario a few years ago. Someone a page or so back made mention of Cleverley lacking any long range passing ability but there was that inch perfect long pass forward that set Wellbeck free and that poster apparently missed that one. I switched on early in to the second half and checked the match thread and someone said " Cleverley, master of the back pass". For the next 10 minutes i watched him and didnt see a single back pass. I know he does them but thats kind of an example of his weaknesses being picked up quickly but the good bits completely ignored. Again, just like Fletcher a few years ago.
We have people saying they would prefer Giggs in CM over Cleverely and Giggs had a really good game last week in Germany but how many remember how bad Giggs was last season in CM and how many were suggesting he retire. Form comes and goes. He is a squad player, we need another high quality CM to be a starter alongside Carrick but he isnt the anti christ so many on here think he is.
We have people saying they would prefer Giggs in CM over Cleverely and Giggs had a really good game last week in Germany but how many remember how bad Giggs was last season in CM and how many were suggesting he retire. Form comes and goes. He is a squad player, we need another high quality CM to be a starter alongside Carrick but he isnt the anti christ so many on here think he is.
It was a silly comparison, but Cleverley showed promise early on, and Wilshere hasn't become the force everyone thought he would, instead being outshone by teammates (though he still can kick on to be World Class).
Injuries permitting Wilshere will go on to be world class. I have no doubts in my mind about it.
I agree.
Hopefully he sorts himself out as a person too.
He's a bad cliche of a London twat.
Hopefully he sorts himself out as a person too.
He's a bad cliche of a London twat.
I wouldn't sell him, but I think it's clear to everyone he should be nowhere near first choice. Until Moyes brings in some better midfield talent he will have the chance to prove us wrong.
This is true. Cleverley's faults are obvious but, realistically, he'd be a very good player to have as, say, a 4th choice squad player. It's not his fault that our midfield is so weak we're forced to rely on him as a first team player. Unfortunately he'll continue to attract criticism until we finally bring in players of the right quality (as will Fellaini, who could also be a very good squad player).
I know the opinion of him on the Caf is "oh he is an academy product...He's good and will be great"
I've seen him have two stand out games...Against City in a Charity Shield and the 8-2
Anderson was better in them two games....He's a fat feck!
People go on about how great Cleverley was against Madrid...He wasn't and I'll gladly argue that point
I've seen him have two stand out games...Against City in a Charity Shield and the 8-2
Anderson was better in them two games....He's a fat feck!
People go on about how great Cleverley was against Madrid...He wasn't and I'll gladly argue that point
Fair post.
Harsh on Butt.
I wish we had a Nicky Butt in our team. Sadly he had two of the best CMs we had at this club to compete against. Let's not forget his great performance for England at the World Cup. Cleverley would have been released, if he had played in that era.
He was far more talented than Cleverley. Cleverly shows no sign of creating anything. I hope we just go all in for Cabaye or Herrera.
It is his fault. He is a bottler, who quite simply does not want to play the ball forward.
Ha, I don't think that's the caf's opinion of him anymore. He certainly seems to be getting increasingly unpopular here. I doubt many still think he has it in him to be great, "squad player" seems like a fair and accurate description of how he is currently viewed.
I was leading the criticism/questioning of Cleverley after Cardiff (and before), but he was much improved yesterday.
Love for you to point to an example
I'm not saying Butt was a bad player or being harsh on him, but that was his role. It's why he left.
I'd agree, in terms of ability/potential, career to date, I wouldn't say the too are dissimilar, SAF said that it wasn't ever that Butt wasn't a good player, merely not good enough to start regularly in a midfield that had Keane, Scholes Beckham, Giggs etc
Those pointing to him being a bottler too, I thought he was certainly more positive yesterday and looked to go forward more often.
I was thinking the same thing. 'Keep things ticking over' has always been a funny description for a player imo, especially one who is meant to be the more attack minded. I think that description is closest to watch players like Carrick/Busquets/Martinez do and even then they provide a defensive screen and set the tempo for their teams. The fact he can't/won't complete more adventurous passes suggests he should be playing deeper. He would need to develop the defensive side of his game slightly imo.
I'm sure that he'd be a totally different and much better player in a 3 man midfield. He'll remain awful in a 2 man midfield though.
Agreed
I really like Cleverley, but I'm starting to think that he can only get away with playing the way he does when he is playing next to someone more penetrative and authoritative, because they are two things his game sorely lacks and we as a team lack it when he plays next to Jones/Fellaini who don't offer much going forward and aren't midfielders who control a game. Playing next to Jones, you would expect Cleverley, who is the only recognised CM take up the more dominant role in regards to our passing game but he doesn't and he doesnt seem to have that authority in him. It's okay when Carrick is there next to him because Carrick offers the forward passes and the penetration and will make 70+ passes per game but when the person next to him isn't very creative either we really miss out.
Despite that though, I felt that he grew into the game somewhat yesterday and grew more adventurous.
Despite that though, I felt that he grew into the game somewhat yesterday and grew more adventurous.
You still talking about Cleverley there LR?
I thought his passing was more positive in the middle-end of the game. Adventurous might have been a slight overstatement.
Think this is still a push =P. For me though, he has the technical attributes - he has shown it before. He really looks out of form with no confidence right now. I'm hoping he can kick on though as the season grows.
I still remember his first season with us; people, myself included, really thought he could become a regular for club and country.
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