Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Our team has never been a pressing team, does it mean we've always been crap? You're talking out of your arse, and it's boring me. Back to the match.
 
Good first half performance. Must be disappointed that he didn't follow his man for the winning goal.
 
He was ok today. Nothing extraordinary, but I think that only Januzaj, Chicha had good games while the others were 5-6 out of 10.

Good to see him going more forward and trying more 'positive' passes. He surely wasn't on 'pass to Evans everytime you have the ball' automode today, which is a good sign.
 
There was a moment in the first half where Cleverley drove forward with the ball in CM and carried the ball for a good 20-30 meters before laying off a nice pass. I also saw Anderson at one point get frustrated with the ball from the back, go and get it and then drive past 2 Newcastle players and was able to trigger a Utd attack from this action. Its the bit thats missing from Cleverleys play, he is nippy and can travel with the ball, just wish he would do it more often. Looking at all the other big sides and sides in form its one thing they all have, players who can happily travel with the ball and commit defences. We just never seem to do it. Januzaj has been doing well when running with the ball, we need the variety of passing and dribbling, at the moment we generally seem to only pass. Defences know what we are going to do, there is that lack of uncertainty coming from the fact we dont run at people.
 
In terms of quality he's good enough for a squad role here certainly. Not his fault we're relying on him too much.

In terms of personality though? He's one of the players that needs to show more fight and bottle here. He was alright today but generally he looks timid, something we don't need in our players at the moment.
 
Brighter performance from Cleverley today. Nice to see him 'attacking the space' (to use a cafism). He was positive in his play and not only drove forward, he also switched the play up nicely and played 5 or 6 nice cross field passes which set the wingers/fullbacks off on attacks. I'd like to see more of the same because there was a definite difference in today from his last couple of games. I'd rather he stayed on with Anderson coming on for one of the forwards to add more solidity to help us control the midfield more. I don't think Anderson for Cleverley achieved much whereas a think he could have shored up the midfield if added to support Cleverley and Jones. Something like this might have been more fruitful:

Jones​
Anderson --- Cleverley​
Nani - Chicharito - Januzaj​
​
Seems a negative move to put a CM on for a striker but I genuinely think it would have helped us to see more of the ball and helped us to create more chances. RvP also appeared miles off the pace and Cleverley wasn't playing badly. I'll have to watch the goal back to see him lose his man (as someone described above).​
 
Was quite good against Newcastle. I actually thought that Ando should have replaced Jones and not Cleverley as they are a better attacking outlet than Jones is...
 
He was okay, better than his recent dire performances any way. Still a long way off being a performance good enough for United.
 
Thought his first half was good but then fell away in the secong half. Still seems to go missing when we have the ball in defence, he needs to take responsibility to set the tempo of our play. Tbh I thought Ando came on and was an instant improvement in terms of drive there. But that only highlights the problem in the middle. It's an endless cycle of one player coming in and looking decent and then struggling only to be replaced by another player who looks like the answer who also then struggles etc.
 
Ive defended cleverley alot in the past but my god how can some of you think he was good against newcastle?!

it was one of the worst midfield performances ive ever seen and his part in their goal is simply unacceptable.

watch that goal again. hes beside cabaye, watches him run away from him, then tries to half heartedly to catch up whil watching him score, then throws a little strop because hes so angry with himself. how can anybody blame a manager for that??!?! those types of mistkaes were happening all day from lots of players, there was no way we could win the game. we could play it like that 10 times and we wouldnt win.

needs a serious look at himself. never has any inclination to beat a man, or advance the play. hides behind the notion of being a 'tidy player' and contributes a negative amount in terms of defence. not a young player either, just not good enough to start at man utd.
 
SER19 said:
Ive defended cleverley alot in the past but my god how can some of you think he was good against newcastle?!

it was one of the worst midfield performances ive ever seen and his part in their goal is simply unacceptable.

watch that goal again. hes beside cabaye, watches him run away from him, then tries to half heartedly to catch up whil watching him score, then throws a little strop because hes so angry with himself. how can anybody blame a manager for that??!?! those types of mistkaes were happening all day from lots of players, there was no way we could win the game. we could play it like that 10 times and we wouldnt win.

needs a serious look at himself. never has any inclination to beat a man, or advance the play. hides behind the notion of being a 'tidy player' and contributes a negative amount in terms of defence. not a young player either, just not good enough to start at man utd.
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Good observation. His part in not following Cabaye aside, I thought he really struggled in the match. Bar a couple of nice long balls out wide, he was more often than not found wanting. Keeping possession is good, but ultimately means nothing if you take the safe option every single time. I don't think the partnership with Jones helped Cleverly at all though, seeing as how Jones is absolutely woeful on the ball beyond the short 5 yard pass.

Clevs needs to show a lot more if he were to stake his future here. At the moment he's barely good enough as a squad player.
 
I've been a big Tom Cleverley fan, but as somebody mentioned a few pages earlier - he is a coward. He is not of the standard we need right now as times are getting a bit tougher. I wouldn't want to go into battle with him. that much is certain.
 
he needs better players around him. Cleverley was never going to be our midfield general. I think we will see him play much better when he has players with movement around him. we saw beginning of last season how good he can be if we speed up our play and movement.
 
Bloxy said:
he needs better players around him. Cleverley was never going to be our midfield general. I think we will see him play much better when he has players with movement around him. we saw beginning of last season how good he can be if we speed up our play and movement.
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This, Clev is a water carrier and there is nothing wrong with that. Some players carve out very successful careers by merely providing a quick link between the defence and attack. He is suffering a dip in form which as has been said before down to a lack of confidence in himself and those around him. He is not the only one in the squad though, plenty others even Carrick prior to his injury wasn't exhibiting the calm and measured approach we have come to associate him with.

The single biggest challenge facing the gaffer is not to recruit new players but to get the ones that here to stop self doubting themselves. These are accomplished players who have demonstrated a trait for proving themselves. They need a conducive environment to do so, perhaps Rio was articulating a commonly shared view within the dressing room in relation to the timing of the naming of the team. Moyes could try and retrace his steps and alter things to provide the players with a little be more assurances in terms of their inclusion/exclusion; the roles expected of them; freedom to express themselves on the pitch without a fear of being hooked shortly past the hour mark and subsequently benched for the next fortnight or so etc.

Players like Clev would always struggle when those ones around them aren't playing well for they play a relatively specific and limited role. There is no doubt in mind that Clev and the rest of the squad have it in them to turn things around. A lot will nonetheless depend on how they are man-managed. Professional footballers are sensitive souls and need their egos massaged a bit.
 
I think he'll be fine as 4th choice midfielder once we sign a couple of first choice players to go alongside Carrick.
 
SER19 said:
Ive defended cleverley alot in the past but my god how can some of you think he was good against newcastle?!

it was one of the worst midfield performances ive ever seen and his part in their goal is simply unacceptable.

watch that goal again. hes beside cabaye, watches him run away from him, then tries to half heartedly to catch up whil watching him score, then throws a little strop because hes so angry with himself. how can anybody blame a manager for that??!?! those types of mistkaes were happening all day from lots of players, there was no way we could win the game. we could play it like that 10 times and we wouldnt win.

needs a serious look at himself. never has any inclination to beat a man, or advance the play. hides behind the notion of being a 'tidy player' and contributes a negative amount in terms of defence. not a young player either, just not good enough to start at man utd.
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you're right..i watched the game again...he was awful..it was like he forgot he was a footballer..i'm sorry it was that bad
 
Gladiator said:
you're right..i watched the game again...he was awful..it was like he forgot he was a footballer..i'm sorry it was that bad
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he wasn't the only one not performing on the day. I'm not defending Cleverley specifically but he seems to be the scapegoat.
 
He''s picked up since his shambolic display against Cardiff. His performances against Spurs and Newcastle games have both improved on themselves.
 
Bloxy said:
he needs better players around him. Cleverley was never going to be our midfield general. I think we will see him play much better when he has players with movement around him. we saw beginning of last season how good he can be if we speed up our play and movement.
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Not only better players around him but he , like a lot of our other players, could benefit from a more compact system. What do players like cleverley, nani, kagawa, welbeck and rvp have in common? They're very good at playing a quick 1 touch style. And we will only be able to do that when we play a more compact system not this wide winger system. I suspect these players would work perfectly in an arsenal styled system where the focus is on one touch quick pass and move football.
 
To say he was shit against Newcastle is probably a tad harsh. It was one of his better performances this season. Problem is that doesn't say much. He is distinctly average right now, and unless he rekindles some of the form that made him look outstanding in his first season, I'm starting to wonder if he'll even be an effective squad player.
 
kouroux said:
Can he do more if he is a squad player ?
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Being a squad player means you're not a key player to the first team; that is, you don't get the nod in all the big games because there is someone else who is a key player and his fundamental to the team. If you're a squad player though, you're expected to still do a job when you come into the team. Honestly I don't even think Cleverley is meeting that standard right now. I do think he has it in him, but he needs to access it quickly before it's too late.
 
rpitroda said:
Being a squad player means you're not a key player to the first team; that is, you don't get the nod in all the big games because there is someone else who is a key player and his fundamental to the team. If you're a squad player though, you're expected to still do a job when you come into the team. Honestly I don't even think Cleverley is meeting that standard right now. I do think he has it in him, but he needs to access it quickly before it's too late.
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I guess I have lowered my expectations so much when it comes to him, Anderson, Nani, Valencia, Young .. that a bad/average performance is normal to me and a good one is highly surprising. Just to be clear I don't put Nani, Valencia in the same bracket as the other three I mentioned.
 
kouroux said:
I guess I have lowered my expectations so much when it comes to him, Anderson, Nani, Valencia, Young .. that a bad/average performance is normal to me and a good one is highly surprising. Just to be clear I don't put Nani, Valencia in the same bracket as the other three I mentioned.
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Shouldn't lower your expectations. It's one thing not expecting to win the league because you understand it's a transition, but completely another to expect your players to give you worse performances, or be satisfied if they give you worse performances than they should.

In any case, I think Cleverley suffers moreso than others when the team is out of confidence. The lack of confidence is reducing our tempo, it is reducing player movement. Cleverley is not a player to play cutting edge through balls between the lines. He needs fast tempo and players moving constantly to play quick one touch passing. Without that, he can't do anything and will end up passing sideways.
 
I dont know about you guys but I aired this in the newbies and got no love. I think Cleverley fits best in a midfield 3. His role can be more defined and he can just focus on being defensively solid and facilitating play. Against Newcastle, the boy looked ever so lost. He would get attracted to the ball leave space behind and then try and recover only for the ball to be recycled right to where he was just running from and he would run back to that exact same spot.

I agree he looks better with better players. I also dont think the current style suits him at all. He's a pass-and-move type player. What aspect of our play rewards that type of mentality?
 
TypeR said:
Good observation. His part in not following Cabaye aside, I thought he really struggled in the match. Bar a couple of nice long balls out wide, he was more often than not found wanting. Keeping possession is good, but ultimately means nothing if you take the safe option every single time. I don't think the partnership with Jones helped Cleverly at all though, seeing as how Jones is absolutely woeful on the ball beyond the short 5 yard pass.

Clevs needs to show a lot more if he were to stake his future here. At the moment he's barely good enough as a squad player.
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agree with everything here. possession football is an absolute waste of time if, when the time to find a pass comes, its delivered by your centre back who punts it upfield.

i think even more so than young, ive never seen a player at united playing within himself so much. he's utterly terrified of doing something wrong to the point he is frozen when he gets the ball. look at the young players that have come through our youth successfully. the things they had achieved by his age. not mentally tough enough it seems.
 
kouroux said:
Can he do more if he is a squad player ?
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I think he's capable of coming in and doing a specific job when alongside better players. He can play a supporting role when the team is performing well. In those instances he can look like a good player. He was pretty good last seasons in games against some big sides for example - Chelsea, Arsenal, Madrid etc.

However, he's unfortunately proving nowhere near good enough when having more responsibility on his shoulders. He is not and will never be the main man in midfield. He does not look good when paired with another average midfielder, or when the team is lacking in confidence/rhythm, he is not the kind of player to turn things around. He won't dominate or provide cutting edge. That said, as 4th/5th choice midfielder then I think he can be a very useful option. Problem is, other than Carrick, all of our CMs are squad-option level players.
 
rpitroda said:
Shouldn't lower your expectations. It's one thing not expecting to win the league because you understand it's a transition, but completely another to expect your players to give you worse performances, or be satisfied if they give you worse performances than they should.

In any case, I think Cleverley suffers moreso than others when the team is out of confidence. The lack of confidence is reducing our tempo, it is reducing player movement. Cleverley is not a player to play cutting edge through balls between the lines. He needs fast tempo and players moving constantly to play quick one touch passing. Without that, he can't do anything and will end up passing sideways.
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When I said I lowered my expectation of certain players and their performances, I didn't mean to be happy with shitty average performances. I just don't spend energy hoping for things that aren't likely to happen.
 
He's a good squad player to have, unfortunately for us and probably for him it's the nightmare scenario. We need to rely on him and Fellaini but both are horribly lacking in confidence and both could use the protection of their partner to get them through it but there's just no one who do that for them with Carrick's absence. Then both are getting left out for others due to their poor form, when you'd assume they would be 2nd and 3rd choice, which is probably only lowering it further. Not good.
 
Ash_G said:
He's a good squad player to have, unfortunately for us and probably for him it's the nightmare scenario. We need to rely on him and Fellaini but both are horribly lacking in confidence and both could use the protection of their partner to get them through it but there's just no one who do that for them with Carrick's absence. Then both are getting left out for others due to their poor form, when you'd assume they would be 2nd and 3rd choice, which is probably only lowering it further. Not good.
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and ability
 
No issue with Cleverley playing along side Carrick or even Anderson. Put him next to Jones or Fellaini though and we have a serious problem.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
No issue with Cleverley playing along side Carrick or even Anderson. Put him next to Jones or Fellaini though and we have a serious problem.
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I think if he was playing even averagely for him then whilst it would be an issue and not ideal but we could get by, when he's horribly out of form as well then it's a real problem, especially when Fellaini is too.
 
Confidence is a big thing in this sport, and he's short of it at the minute. I think the big thing with Cleverley is that he hasn't really kicked on from the player that burst onto the scene a couple of years ago. Personally, I think he would look twice the player if played consistently in a midfield three, but it is what it is at the end of the day. I think he has plenty if potential if played in the correct role. In all honestly, I don't see him as this attacking threat that people appear to be making him out to be. He does the basics well in the sense that he can keep things ticking over, his movements decent and he can receive a pass, but take that confidence out of his game and there is an obvious impact.

The thing is, the majority of us believe that he is capable of more than he is showing. He's not poor, he's not Championship standard or whatever else. What he does need to do though is pick himself up and push on. He needs to start impacting games and bossing them. He has plenty about him, we just need to see more if it in my opinion. He just needs to pick his confidence up.
 
SER19 said:
agree with everything here. possession football is an absolute waste of time if, when the time to find a pass comes, its delivered by your centre back who punts it upfield.

i think even more so than young, ive never seen a player at united playing within himself so much. he's utterly terrified of doing something wrong to the point he is frozen when he gets the ball. look at the young players that have come through our youth successfully. the things they had achieved by his age. not mentally tough enough it seems.
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Wow that's interesting. I was reading an article the other day by Jonathon Wilson and he was talking about the same exact thing. He talked about how Cleverley's role this season seems to be as a facilitator (recycling possession and all that jazz). He made the point that this role is odd because in essence what good is it having a facilitator if there's nothing to facilitate?

That's exactly how I feel about Cleverley right now. He seems content with playing those types of passes but he needs to be more adventurous. He has it within him but he looks so far from it. Usually he would be the player who would up our tempo and provide some urgency with his passes and runs but he's not doing that anymore. There was one instance against Newcastle where Evans was on the ball and Cleverley slowly jogged towards him pointing at his feet. But what caught me out was that Cleverley did in the most sheepish way possible. It was infuriating. Show for the ball tom!
 
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