Not so much Silva as Iniesta.
Obviously he's not anywhere near that quality, but on the plus side, he's perhaps more of a direct player, and more of a goal threat, than an Iniesta-type of player.
Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
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Not so much Silva as Iniesta.
Obviously he's not anywhere near that quality, but on the plus side, he's perhaps more of a direct player, and more of a goal threat, than an Iniesta-type of player.
Well I think they are both excellent one touch passers, good appreciation of space. To some extent both can dictate the tempo of the game of course scholes is currently much better. Both have a great work ethic and not afraid to get stuck in. Also both have a good goal threat from range.
They are not identical but Cleverley is the most scholes like first team midfielder we currently have. More so than Ando, Carrick, Fletcher etc
Well that's because the others you've mentioned have nothing in common with Scholes.
Can't really say Cleverley has a good long range goal threat, I certainly haven't seen much to suggest it. Scholes is far more about the long range pass, Cleverley is all about the little 1-2s and dribbling into the box (which he is superb at). He's most definitely not as creative either (he's not really very creative at all), he doesn't have the through ball Scholes does. Very different styles.
If anything, Cleverley looks like the player we were assuming Anderson would be when we went and bought the lad. Let us hope he gets rid of these injury problems and pushes on now.
Is that a joke? Paul Scholes might be famous for his "Sat Nav" passes, but it's the tiki-taka short passing that makes up 99% of his game.
EDIT - In fact that whole post is wrong. Not creative at all? You actually haven't seen Cleverley play at all have you? I'm even wondering if you've seen Scholes play.
Cleverley's work around the box is a marvel, his short pass and move game is hugely creative at making space and pulling defenders around. Currently when they sit back around their 18 yard box we have Giggs doing that floated ball that mystifies and frustrates all the fans as it goes to their first defender who heads it away with ease every time. Cleverley's passing and movement around that area causes real problems and gives us great options and that's just in the few matches he's played for the first team. He was doing it in the ressies for ages and in the few games I watched him play for Watford, when they were in control, he was doing it for them too.
Not a creative player, feck me.
Exactly, scholes is the master of the one two. Absolutely phenomenal in his prime.
I'd say Cleverley's very creative. He's got a great through ball on him, but he's more fond of playing it into the feet of a teammate rushing towards the goal(again, Iniesta-like) rather than playing it into space.
Oh, and for those of you who've watched him a lot - I'd say Cleverley's got the long range pass in his locker. Watch the pass he makes as he injures himself vs Everton, it's a peach.
when is he back, 2 weeks?
Hopefully playing in the reserves on monday, should be back for next weekend.
He's about as creative as a potato. It's not a critiscism, it's just not his style of play. I've seen nothing to suggest he has a good through ball, with him it's all about the dribbling, one-twos etc, he cannot in any way dictate a match. What he can do is get the ball forward, cause the defense problems and bring the strikers and wingers into the game with his passes. He can dribble past players too, a very good trait for a midfielder.
I have high prospects, he's been impressive, he's just not the "creative" midfielder that people are crying out for at this club. But he has many other positive aspects to his game.
You clearly havent seen enough
I think you're wrong here, mate. Look at some of his passes to Welbeck, for instance.
Scholes doesn't spend the day playing through balls to our strikers either, nowadays. In fact, he very, very rarely provides an assist. But he constantly takes people out of the game, plays past midfields, and sets up our attackers in great positions.
Cleverley does the same, his awareness is one of his best traits, and it allows him to play the ball forward with his first touch a lot of the time. Also, I'd say it's a creative aspect of the game to be able to play one-two's and get yourself in behind opposition players.
Watch his link-up play with Welbeck as well, some of it has been as creative as you'll ever see. He'll thread the ball into the feet of Welbs inside the box quite often.
Yes I have. I've seen him in almost game he's played for Wigan and Utd, and quite a few of the highlights from Watford too.
People should take note that around 80% of midfielders classed as being "creative" are regarded as being some of the best in the entire world. It's a rare trait.
We clearly have different definitions of the term creative. Most of what you mentioned here involves the one-twos and bringing other players into the game, (like the passes to Welbeck) that I mentioned above. If that's what you define as being creative, then fine. It's not the case for me.
Also, the Scholes in recent years isn't as creative as he used to be, he sits a lot further back so he's forced to ping long passes and simpler passes from time to time.
You're joking right? Silva's through balls are ridiculous at times (the volley to Dzeko in the derby), Cleverley gets nowhere close in that aspect.
So basically, it sounds like Silva, if you take out the creative brilliance of his game.
I think Cleverly's certainly got the vision and ability to pick a through ball.
But his real strength is in opening up teams who defend deep.
You've basically just described how a player can dictate a match. No offense to you, but I think you're talking slight bollox (not full, as you make some valid points). With him in the team, I think we will create a hell of a lot more chances. He draws in opposition players and frees up space for the wingers and strikers.
I think you are under esitimating his passing range as well. I think he is the exact type of player we need. I would say he's more similar to Scholes' style than Anderson's. Anderson was bought for mainly driving at the defence with the ball at his feet, pushing their back line deep. But I'd say Cleverley would spend a lot less time with the ball at his feet than Anderson would. He likes to get the ball quick and then give it back quick, keeping the tempo of passing high.
There is more to a creative player than playing trough balls.
He is comfortable on the ball, can pick passes, gets other players involved, has a good passing range, can play the final ball, can put a cross in, gets forward, is a goal threat.
Thats pretty creative.
Volleying through balls is something he might need to work on.
He is comfortable on the ball, can pick passes, gets other players involved, has a good passing range, can play the final ball, can put a cross in, gets forward, is a goal threat.
Thats pretty creative.
Volleying through balls is something he might need to work on.
Exactly. I'm not quite sure what Cina means when he says that being creative is a "rare trait". Ireland is a creative midfielder, doesn't make him one of the best in the world.
Thanks mate, so are you. We create a lot more chances because of Carricks reading the game and ability to get the ball forward to others when he intercepts it, does that make him creative too?
Did I say he wasn't? I'm not underestimating his "range", he's very good at passing, one-twos especially. He has done little to suggest he can pick out through balls. He was compared to Silva above which is a load of nonsense.
I agreed with that already, because that's not difficult to be, is it? I mean none of what you've said here is anything I've disagreed with, what I disagree with is that the above makes him "creative".
feck it, we clearly define these attributes in a different manner.
You can be a creative player without being a particularly creative passer, surely? Cleverley's a creative passer anyway from what I've seen, but ignore that. Dribbling for me is one of the most creative assets a player can have, probably the most creative actually.
Give us your definition of creative?
My definition is a player who through his actions, be it an assist, a pass to a player who makes an assist or a movement which creates space as well as many other actions, creates a goal scoring opportunity. I'd say 4 assists in 10 starts alone this season would hint to his creativity.
Sir Alex Ferguson has been boosted by the news that Wayne Rooney, Ashley Young and Nani are all available for Manchester United's Premier League clash against Chelsea on Sunday, with Tom Cleverley in the squad for the first time since October.
Rooney and Nani missed United's FA Cup defeat to Liverpool and league win over Stoke in midweek with foot injuries but returned to training this week and are expected to start.
Cleverley, who has been out of action since October, will travel with the squad but is unlikely to feature. Meanwhile Young, also out with a foot injury since December, is available for selection.
"We're a bit better in terms of injuries," Ferguson said. "We hope Wayne Rooney, Nani, Tom Cleverley and Ashley Young will all be in the squad. It's more likely Tom will play against Chelsea Reserves on Monday, but he'll travel. Rooney and Nani have trained for the last two days."
However, Ferguson confirmed Anders Lindegaard would be sidelined for at least four weeks with an ankle injury. David De Gea is expected to return after missing the midweek win over Stoke.
"It looks like Lindegaard will be out for at least four weeks, maybe five to six, with ankle ligament damage," Ferguson said. "We don't know what his recovery from injuries is like, so we'll have to wait and see, but I would have thought at least four weeks."
Wayne Rooney back as Tom Cleverley returns for Manchester United | Football News | ESPN.co.uk
Rooney and Nani missed United's FA Cup defeat to Liverpool and league win over Stoke in midweek with foot injuries but returned to training this week and are expected to start.
Cleverley, who has been out of action since October, will travel with the squad but is unlikely to feature. Meanwhile Young, also out with a foot injury since December, is available for selection.
"We're a bit better in terms of injuries," Ferguson said. "We hope Wayne Rooney, Nani, Tom Cleverley and Ashley Young will all be in the squad. It's more likely Tom will play against Chelsea Reserves on Monday, but he'll travel. Rooney and Nani have trained for the last two days."
However, Ferguson confirmed Anders Lindegaard would be sidelined for at least four weeks with an ankle injury. David De Gea is expected to return after missing the midweek win over Stoke.
"It looks like Lindegaard will be out for at least four weeks, maybe five to six, with ankle ligament damage," Ferguson said. "We don't know what his recovery from injuries is like, so we'll have to wait and see, but I would have thought at least four weeks."
Wayne Rooney back as Tom Cleverley returns for Manchester United | Football News | ESPN.co.uk
His website also hints of his creativity. It's quite creative to come up with a sure-fire way of getting every single football supporter in the land to hate you, after hitting the ground running in your first senior season as a United-player.
From what I've seen he isn't, maybe we're looking at it in a different way.
Despite that paragraph being a bit all over the place, some of what you're saying is true yes. I mean obviously it involves creating goal scoring opportunities, but then wingers aren't overly creative yet the likes of Valencia and Bale create loads through their crossing.
I think they really need the final ball, the defense splitting ball that you don't see coming, that's the biggest trait. Creative players should be able to do something out of nothing, for me anyway, that's not something Cleverley can do. Maybe that'll change in the future, very few youngsters have it in their locker until they start hitting their "peak", unless their name is Cesc Fabregas.
But you don't think you can be a creative player without being a particularly creative passer? For example if Cleverley takes it past two men, gets to the edge of the box and then slips a simple sideways pass to Rooney taking out another man with that simple pass and giving Rooney a free run at goal, that's not him being creative? He's created space for himself and Rooney and created a goalscoring chance, and taken three players out of the game - in the same way Silva would with a cutting pass - but that's not him being creative?
I think Cleverley is creative in the sense that he always aims to take players out of the game, and make progress towards the goal. Also, he's a very, very astute one-touch passer, and a good dribbler, so he'll look to drive the team forward all the time.
Honestly, I can't understand you saying Cleverley isn't a creative passer. I don't think we have any other midfielder who's that adept at playing through the midfield of the other team with one-touch-football, or give and go's.
Honestly, I can't understand you saying Cleverley isn't a creative passer. I don't think we have any other midfielder who's that adept at playing through the midfield of the other team with one-touch-football, or give and go's.
If you can't pass, or be creative in the middle, what's the point of a midfielder?
Do you think Cleverley's a creative player?
Ask Javier Mascherano.
Not really Brwned, Evra is great at beating his man too, so is Valencia, and generally they'll usually find a player in the box. Welbeck has great link up play, is he creative?
Also, 3 players? Christ, he must be the worlds best midfielder then.
To be fair, our other midfielders consist of Carrick, Andrerson, Fletcher etc. So hardly a comparison worth making. In terms of players considered creative in the PL, surely it's Silva, Mata, Arteta, Modric we should be comparing him to? Maybe not quite fair as he's younger and not at their level yet.
I mean I've agreed with all of the above, so I don't know why people keep bringing this up to me, it's clear we define creative different, the above are all great traits to have for a midfielder. My original point was that he's not the creative player people want at the club, but that's no problem for me, we create loads of chances anyway because mainly because of Rooney and our wingers. What I think Cleverley does is bring them into the game and get the ball forward so that they CAN make those chances.
Not sure what you mean by this Sultan. Sarcasm I would guess.
I'd certainly call Welbeck creative because of his great link-up play. Seems you just have a more limited definition of it than others.
We've seen Cleverley take it past two players in one movement, it's not a stretch to think he can do that and then play a smart pass into feet. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he has taken three players out of the game in one sequence to be honest.
I don't want a "creative" player the way you want, but Cleverley do create loads of chances, in addition to provide more fluidity to the link-up between attack and central midfield. In fact, when he's played, we're looking more likely to break through the middle in addition to the threat of the wingers, which is one of his plus points as a midfielder.
I don't really think we're in the need for a player like Silva or Mata. They would not be at their best the way we like to play, and we would have to change our entire system to accomodate them.
In a side which plays two central midfielders and two wingers, I don't think you can ask for a much more creative player who'll still function in the side than Cleverley.
I can remember several instances where he's taken the entire midfield out of the game with one pass.
And what about the chance vs Arsenal, when he first drove past their midfield, then played a one-two with Rooney(I think) to send him clean through? Surely that's considered creative, as it creates a goal-scoring chance from nothing?
I guess so. Though I class Giggs, Rooney, Berbatov, to a lesser extent Nani, all as being creative. I should also add that trying "tricks" or crazy passes is something I find creative too, albeit they don't always work, but the aforementioned players have certainly had their fair share of them.
Obviously the 3 player quip was a bit of a joke, but as said, non-creative players are very good at beating their man too. I've seen Ramires do a few tasty dribbles for Chelsea and god knows, I don't think he's creative.
I think I have the same definition of 'creative' as you, I had this argument before Cleverley came back from loan. I'd class Ronaldinho, Veron, Xavi, Silva etc. as creative players. As in, players that can consistently pick out a killer pass from midfield, or create it through dribbling.
Just depends how you define 'creative', but if Cleverley is creative then I'm scratching my head as to why so many still claim we need a 'creative' midfielder. The thing is, most people roll off names of potential targets that fit in more with the way I've described a creative player ie. Sneijder.
An artist is creative, a musician is creative, an architect is creative
Just because they dont do things the same way doesn't make one less creative than the other.
Just because they dont do things the same way doesn't make one less creative than the other.
Sorry but, do you read what I post? I just said that we don't in any way need a creative midfielder...
So where do you draw the line? Is Carrick creative because he makes passes that assist the goals? What about Anderson, who can play a killer ball every now and then?
You're talking about 3 entirely different professions, we're talking solely about footballers. What a daft comparison.I could basically replace one of them and go
A footballer is creative, a musician is creative, an architect is creative
Just because they dont do things the same way doesn't make one less creative than the other
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