Am I going mad or did he start in the middle in at least one game?
Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
- Thread starter #07
- Start date
- Status
Am I going mad or did he start in the middle in at least one game?
You're going a bit mad (jk). In the second half of the first and third group games Cleverley was moved into the hole ahead of the two centre midfielders and behind the main striker as the link man in a 4-2-3-1.
He never played in the role he has taken up in the last three pre-season games he's played in, which has been as an orthodox box to box centre midfielder. Against Chicago and Barca in a two man midfield and for "United" last night on the left of a central 3 man midfield in a 4-5-1.
The difference in productivity has been startling e.g.
Great assist:
Great goal. The use of Park's run for the dummy and the brilliant one two before the lovely curled finish...
Getting him in a position where he can get on the ball and make things happen instead of forcing him to wait for things to happen has been Fergie's tactical masterstroke of the summer so far. Once again the old man proves he's a genius.
His preseason performances have convinced me. If him and Anderson can successfully face off against the likes of Iniesta, Thiago, etc in midfield then he's capable.
He showed the ability but, still needs time to convince he can play for United in that role - that will only come as he gets more games though. Who was that young Villa duo that held their own and then some against our far better CM last season? One game didn't exactly make them ready to stake their claim.
Good thing about Cleverly's performances so far is that it's the first time we've really seen him given that role for United and he's taken it so far. Lets hope he continues.
For those who don't want to improve the express click thru rates:
Very much a squad player. We need 1st team.
We do, do we? Could you name our current "1st team"?
There are players who are definite starters in the biggest games when fit: Rooney, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra and maybe Carrick but that's about it. It'd be nice to have someone creative in midfield who is unquestionable first choice...
Toms created chances playing in the middle. He's even grabbed goals. So when people talk about creativity, you never know. I think this position will suit him as he was never a traditional sort of winger anyway. If he's productive who knows but then again we're hopefully seeing Anderson stepping up. We've options that's for sure and there are very few 'certainties' so sometimes you have to trust what you have
Why is it that Cleverley cannot be that player? In the summer of 1995 were Scholes, Butt, Beckham, and the Neville's unquestionably first choice?
It would be nice but we've coped fine without one over the last few years.
As it stands, Anderson and Cleverley are both competing for the role. Which isn't the end of the world. Be great if SAF lands the really top class addition to his squad he wants but the season would be no less fun if he has to rely on what we've already got. No less fun and potentially a LOT more satisfying.
He could be. But that is yet to be proven. Quite sobering really that you have to go back to 1995 to find examples of CM's coming from the youth squad to establish themselves as regulars in the first team.
That should really put into perspective how rare it is even for a club who places so much emphasis on allowing youth an opportunity, to see someone actually come through and make the grade.
So while i share your optimism about Cleverley's potential, it would be unrealistic and maybe a little naive to believe he is already the answer to problems that have persisted for at least 2 seasons.
He is one for the future, how soon in the future only SAF can determine.
If Wilshere did it for Arsenal why can't Cleverley do it for us? Based on what I have seen of Cleverley since Sir Alex let him off the leash and gave him a central box-to-box role I've every confidence that he can be the business for us. He just looks a Man Utd player: That little bit of swagger allied to skill. I just hope the Boss starts him in the middle at Wembley because I believe if given a chance, just like Chico did in the Shield last summer, he'll announce himself to English football.
No, it's enough to go back to 2003.
You reckon he's the new Chris Eagles then ?
Are you on about Fletcher? Seriously?
If you are then let me clarify i meant quality midfielders.
Even so using that as a barometer that would be only 1 midfielder of debatable top quality to make the grade in the last 16 years.
Are you on about Fletcher? Seriously?
If you are then let me clarify i meant quality midfielders.
Even so using that as a barometer that would be only 1 midfielder of debatable top quality to make the grade in the last 16 years.
Darren Fletcher IS top quality. Maybe not a 'world class' midfielder but there is probably only about 5 or 6 of those in world football.
Because Cleverly is a winger where we're stocked and can play in centram midfield when needed, but by no means established there?
Are you on about Fletcher? Seriously?
If you are then let me clarify i meant quality midfielders.
Even so using that as a barometer that would be only 1 midfielder of debatable top quality to make the grade in the last 16 years.
Well, you never said "quality midfielder", you said "CM who established himself as a regular", something Fletcher certainly did at some point (throughout 08/09 and 09/10).
Cleverley isn't a winger. If he plays wide he is invariably going to stay narrow and play more in the Iniesta/Park role. He's much better suited to playing in the middle.
I had my doubts when I saw him in the U-21 EC but he have proved me wrong in pre-season.
I'm in favor to see him start together with Ando on Sunday. They looked really good, both individually and together, against Barcelona and if they can handle a trio including Iniesta/Thiago/Keita there is potential.
Wilshere is an exceptional talent and has been widely touted as such for the last few years. Cleverley has never been associated with that type of talent.
Wilshire is possibly the most technically gifted player to break into the England team since Scholes, and Wenger has done an excellent job so far with his development.
Don't get me wrong i am a huge Cleverley fan, and have championed his cause since my joining the Caf. I was hugely disappointed that SAF left him out of the 25 last season in favour of Gibson, as i felt he had more to offer than Gibson. So again i am not disagreeing with you about TC's potential but you do seem to be placing a lot of faith in only a few pre season performances.
Arsenal by the way are not enjoying a period of success, while we currently are. So the expectations and pressure of being a main midfield man for United, especially so close after losing Scholes puts a lot of added scrutiny on whoever takes on that mantle. This is why i believe SAF is considering Sneijder, a proven, experienced player of undoubted quality has to be considered the best bet for replacing someone of Scholes' class and influence.
Cleverley imo, should be used carefully while he finds his feet, and should not be thrown into the fold too early. Look at the detrimental effect that such a scenario had on Evans last season after showing comparable early promise.
Fair enough, honestly though, Fletcher did not even come into my thinking when considering youth players making it in the first team.
While i am struggling to resist the urge to nitpick Fletcher's overall impact, my better judgement calls for me to simply concede this point to you.
most of the time he's played as a winger, he is a winger for the national team as well. He's still young of course and his position may change, but by no means he's an established(as a position) central midfielder.
He only played out wide in the euros because pearce is an idiot. Its clear as day light his natural position is in the middle. Hes not a winger.
Agree with this. I think there's a segment of fans who are so desperate for a youth player to make it that they're irrationally hyping the lad up beyond his abilities.
To be fair, that's why some would suggest we need someone who could stamp their authority over our midfield because there are a lot of players who can do a good job but noone is completely top drawer and in his prime or thereabouts. Hence one can't name a first team, particularly when it comes to central midfield.
Then again, it depends on what the need is. I reckon we could challenge for everything if a couple of young players (anderson, cleverly) step up big time but having said that it is a risk as investing your fortunes with young players always is. So it really depends on what kind of impact Fergie sees some of these younger players having.
Strongly disagree. His abilities when he's given the opportunity showcase them have appeared considerable. When the likes of Gibson came through there was, for me anyway, never the same anticipation about what they could become as there is with Cleverley. No offence to players like Chrissy Eagles but Cleverley is clearly the class above and that's why many fans are keen to see him given a go.
We're not wishing for Cleverley to have abilities he doesn't have we're looking at the abilities he has displayed last preseason and this and saying why not give him the opportunities to use them? As I recall many of said similar things about Chicharito last summer after the U.S. tour in spite the prevailing opinion that he was "one for the future" and look how that turned out?
I've yet to see anyone identify a proper reason that Cleverley cannot become our midfield general. Nobody has been able to highlight any significant flaws in his game from the matches he has played at centre midfield to suggest that its beyond him. The argument that its too early for him seems to be all that can be put up against Sir Alex giving him a chance. Yet, at United its always been the philosophy that there's no such thing as too young so long as you're too good.
Cleverley is too good not to get his chance.
Right now at this moment, team picks itself in all positions apart from central midfield tbf.
The trouble I have with Cleverley at the moment is I think he is more of an all-rounder rather than having the specialist skills to excel in one position. He is the sort of player who would be great in a 5 a side but when changing to 11 you don't know quite where to play him. I think somebody like Gareth Barry is a player who had a similar problem before he reached maturity as a centre midfielder.
He is by no means a natural wide man. He has good but not exceptional pace and isn't the best at beating his man. He does have good delivery though when he gets in the right positions.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that he will be a central midfield player for us either. I think in a 2 he would be too loose, for want of a better word. I think he would give the ball away a fair bit and would be restricted from showing his best stuff which tends to be in the final third. As the most attacking of a 3 I think he would maybe lack a bit of guile and craft.
For me, his best qualities are his intelligence, work rate, attitude and also his finishing when he gets into a good position, so I think at this time his best position would be playing from wide and drifting inside to provide a threat. I think he could be a good impact player for us from here and a matchwinner in the mould of somebody like Ljungberg or, to use one of our players, Park.
Will be interesting to see how he features for us this season.
He is by no means a natural wide man. He has good but not exceptional pace and isn't the best at beating his man. He does have good delivery though when he gets in the right positions.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that he will be a central midfield player for us either. I think in a 2 he would be too loose, for want of a better word. I think he would give the ball away a fair bit and would be restricted from showing his best stuff which tends to be in the final third. As the most attacking of a 3 I think he would maybe lack a bit of guile and craft.
For me, his best qualities are his intelligence, work rate, attitude and also his finishing when he gets into a good position, so I think at this time his best position would be playing from wide and drifting inside to provide a threat. I think he could be a good impact player for us from here and a matchwinner in the mould of somebody like Ljungberg or, to use one of our players, Park.
Will be interesting to see how he features for us this season.
Not really. One striker or two strikers? Which wingers should play with Park, Nani, Young and, allegedly, Valencia all fit now? Who's the first-choice right-back, Rafael or Fabio?
I have my opinion about these questions, you certainly have, too and they might vastly differ for all we know. So the team hardly picks itself in all positions, even if we take CM out of the equation.
Also worth bearing in mind that no matter what any of us think Fergie can and will rotate the team constantly throughout the season. And that's without even allowing for injuries/suspensions. Cleverley is making a good case for himself as a talented and versatile option as part of this rotation. Which is good news.
well we played 4-4-2 all last season so i think that answers the one striker Vs two argument.
Valencia hasnt had a preseason while nani and young have. Rafael to me seems more likely to start right now than fabio. Not because ones been performing any worse than the other, more to do with the fact that rafael started with what will be the the defence that will play again city tomorrow. It makes more sense.
Team picks itself apart from midfield IMO.
Park will probably start against City.
Really hope Cleverley becomes a regular squad player for us, he has that drive and passion, not to mention the energy that Gibson doesn't quite have. The quick feet he demonstrated in midfield against Barcelona is something we are very much lacking, whether or not he could do a job for us week in week out is another matter entirely, but he's definitely worth giving a season or two to establish himself with the first team squad.
Don't see him as a wideplayer at a club of our standing, but as an attacking-mid, he has every chance of being a decent player.
Don't see him as a wideplayer at a club of our standing, but as an attacking-mid, he has every chance of being a decent player.
City away
City home
City FA Cup semi
Arsenal home
West Ham away
Everton away
Valencia away
Bursaspor away
Birmingham City away (Rooney started out wide)
Blackpool away (see above)
Marseille away (again, Rooney wide)
Fulham home
Schalke home
Blackpool home
Crawley Town home
In no chronological order: all the games we started in a 4-5-1/4-2-3-1/4-3-3 formation. 15 games, a 25% of our season.
Gonna stick my head out and say Cleverley will get around 30ish games for us this season contributing around 6-8 goals and a similar amount of assists.
Like Nani, he's very productive even when he seems he's having a bad day on the pitch.
Injuries permitting, I reckon Cleverley will make his mark this season in our team and in the league. He and Welbeck are the ones to watch this season.
Like Nani, he's very productive even when he seems he's having a bad day on the pitch.
Injuries permitting, I reckon Cleverley will make his mark this season in our team and in the league. He and Welbeck are the ones to watch this season.
- Status