Toby Alderweireld

[Havak]

Toby will get a nice sign on fee, but it will be in the region of £5-10million, wherever he goes. It'll be similar to what PSG gave Herrera as a sign on fee I reckon (estimated £8million sign on fee split over the first year of his contract is around £150k a week extra, hence the £300k a week wages he is touted at). It's highly unlikely the sign on fee is a lump sum, to prevent any potential fall out or injury clause early on when a player can just grab that big sum and run for the hills in a sense.

Despite his age and the likelihood of us planning for the long-term, buying mostly young players etc, I think he is still a no-brainer buy if de Ligt isn't on the cards. You need some experienced players that have undeniable quality. He will help us develop some younger defenders hopefully over Ole's tenure. Realistically, I'd take signing Alderweireld and de Ligt at any cost right now if we sold Jones, Rojo, Darmian, and Bailly.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Except that he has already lost a packet - probably more than £10m - by not signing the greatly improved new contract that he could have signed 2 years ago.

While that's true, I assume he will make up for it with a big bump in his wages at a new club and a very good signing on bonus.

It might not pay off for him, I guess that's his gamble to take.

 

[Ekeke]

Toby will get a nice sign on fee, but it will be in the region of £5-10million, wherever he goes. It'll be similar to what PSG gave Herrera as a sign on fee I reckon (estimated £8million sign on fee split over the first year of his contract is around £150k a week extra, hence the £300k a week wages he is touted at). It's highly unlikely the sign on fee is a lump sum, to prevent any potential fall out or injury clause early on when a player can just grab that big sum and run for the hills in a sense.

Despite his age and the likelihood of us planning for the long-term, buying mostly young players etc, I think he is still a no-brainer buy if de Ligt isn't on the cards. You need some experienced players that have undeniable quality. He will help us develop some younger defenders hopefully over Ole's tenure. Realistically, I'd take signing Alderweireld and de Ligt at any cost right now if we sold Jones, Rojo, Darmian, and Bailly.

Completely out of odds with the direction the club seem to be going. We have the experienced defenders, thats the only reason Jones got his contract extension and although no he isnt as good, he'll play longer, doesnt have to settle in at United, costs no transfer fee and less wages. And Smalling who is better at everything other than ball playing.

We need the prospects, players who will improve on Bailly and Lindelof in their roles as CBs who might end up good CBs for us longterm.

Lindelof improved but was still a fairly average defender over the season, meanwhile Bailly fell off a cliff. Theres a lot of room to improve on both of them. A 30 year old coming in for big wages being our Sanchez in defense won't help that.

 

[golden_blunder]

He is vastly better than any of your current defenders - not just in defending, which his main strength is positioning (top class) but his distribution from the back is extremely good. He would most definitely strengthen your squad.

He is our second best defender after Vertonghen who is an absolute Rolls Royce of a player and seems to go under the radar a bit - I'd be more gutted at losing Verts than Toby.

Veryonghen is the better player and makes him look good

 

[balaks]

Veryonghen is the better player and makes him look good

There may be an element of that but they do compliment each other very well - Vertonghen is a much classier and talented player generally though. Toby has been a bit overrated by the media but he has been fantastic for Spurs - he would be Utd's best defender if he signed and by quite a distance.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

A 30 year old coming in for big wages being our Sanchez in defense won't help that.

Getting fed up with this narrative. Why would he be our "Sanchez in defence"? Is there any other parallel with Sanchez other than the facts he's a mature, quality, Premier League and Champions League proven defender, who's available for a good price? I would obviously rather we sign De Ligt, but Toby would be a great addition.

 

[Ekeke]

He is vastly better than any of your current defenders - not just in defending, which his main strength is positioning (top class) but his distribution from the back is extremely good. He would most definitely strengthen your squad.

He is our second best defender after Vertonghen who is an absolute Rolls Royce of a player and seems to go under the radar a bit - I'd be more gutted at losing Verts than Toby.

Amazing positioning huh :

Many examples this season that disprove the myth.

Just because you're always running away from confronting the player with the ball and dropping off doesnt mean you have great positioning.

It means you are very passive with your defending waiting for the opponent to give you the ball with their mistake, rather than forcing them to make one. It gives the attackers plenty of time and space to score goals just as it happened in a bunch of these goals from these matches.

 

[Ekeke]

Getting fed up with this narrative. Why would he be our "Sanchez in defence"? Is there any other parallel with Sanchez other than the facts he's a mature, quality, Premier League and Champions League proven defender, who's available for a good price? I would obviously rather we sign De Ligt, but Toby would be a great addition.

1) Both have been popular and good players for another premier league club
2) Both were near the 30 mark
3) Both would be signing for money. Even more-so for Toby who would be joining a team lower in the table
4) Both would get extra money personally due to their contract situations

 

[Cliche Guevara]

While that's true, I assume he will make up for it with a big bump in his wages at a new club and a very good signing on bonus.

It might not pay off for him, I guess that's his gamble to take.

That’s assuming anyone wants him at 31 1/2 and wants him badly enough to pay him that money.

By that time he’ll be a West Ham level signing at about £100k per week. They aren’t going to say we’ll pay you £300k because we’ve saved on a transfer fee.

For what it’s worth I’d be surprised if Hererra’s wages are anywhere near close to what’s reported.

 

[balaks]

Amazing positioning huh :

Many examples this season that disprove the myth.

Just because you're always running away from confronting the player with the ball and dropping off doesnt mean you have great positioning.

It means you are very passive with your defending waiting for the opponent to give you the ball with their mistake, rather than forcing them to make one. It gives the attackers plenty of time and space to score goals just as it happened in a bunch of these goals from these matches.

It's not a myth - I have watched every single game he has played for Spurs. His positioning is very good. Not saying it's perfect in every single game, but who's is?

 

[Ekeke]

It's not a myth - I have watched every single game he has played for Spurs. His positioning is very good. Not saying it's perfect in every single game, but who's is?

Watch those games from this season again. Thats quite poor positioning at times

 

[balaks]

Watch those games from this season again. Thats quite poor positioning at times

He has poor games - every defender does - I'm basing my judgement on the over 100 games I've watched him play in a Spurs shirt.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

1) Both have been popular and good players for another premier league club
2) Both were near the 30 mark
3) Both would be signing for money. Even more-so for Toby who would be joining a team lower in the table
4) Both would get extra money personally due to their contract situations

That's it, we should only sign players who are unpopular and poor for their respective Premier League clubs, who know they aren't worth high wages, and are closer to 21.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Toby will get a nice sign on fee, but it will be in the region of £5-10million, wherever he goes. It'll be similar to what PSG gave Herrera as a sign on fee I reckon (estimated £8million sign on fee split over the first year of his contract is around £150k a week extra, hence the £300k a week wages he is touted at). It's highly unlikely the sign on fee is a lump sum, to prevent any potential fall out or injury clause early on when a player can just grab that big sum and run for the hills in a sense.

Despite his age and the likelihood of us planning for the long-term, buying mostly young players etc, I think he is still a no-brainer buy

Are you Toby's agent?, or maybe mother?

 

[Ekeke]

That's it, we should only sign players who are unpopular and poor for their respective Premier League clubs, who know they aren't worth high wages, and are closer to 21.

How about players who have time to have a season to adjust to playing for United?

At 30 years old you don't.

You either deliver straight away or you flop. Having high wages will only make that harder because if we're spending a lot of money on a player who will be around for a short time, the expectation will be higher than if they were being paid the same as the other CBs which are middle of the pack in our wages at the moment, with Lindelof being the most at £120k.

This is the exact problem with Sanchez. If we signed him at 26 or so he could have come good in the end after an average start. If he wasn't being paid a lot more than players playing better than he is, again we could work with that and he could come good.

But instead he's being paid as our top player and came in with a small window of peak performance. Toby is the CB option version of that. He probably wouldnt be our highest wage, but he'd certainly be our top paid CB.

 

[KW2006]

He could be our Ronny Johnsen. I remember Ronny was 30 when we won the Triple, and continued to offer good service for a couple more years.

 

[Ekeke]

He has poor games - every defender does - I'm basing my judgement on the over 100 games I've watched him play in a Spurs shirt.

Me too. I'm also looking harder providing examples

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

How about players who have time to have a season to adjust to playing for United?

At 30 years old you don't.

You either deliver straight away or you flop. Having high wages will only make that harder because if we're spending a lot of money on a player who will be around for a short time, the expectation will be higher than if they were being paid the same as the other CBs which are middle of the pack in our wages at the moment, with Lindelof being the most at £120k.

This is the exact problem with Sanchez. If we signed him at 26 or so he could have come good in the end after an average start. If he wasn't being paid a lot more than players playing better than he is, again we could work with that and he could come good.

But instead he's being paid as our top player and came in with a small window of peak performance. Toby is the CB option version of that. He probably wouldnt be our highest wage, but he'd certainly be our top paid CB.

If all our signings take a year to settle at United Ole will get sacked.

We have got to judge players on individual merits. Sanchez was brilliant for Barcelona and Arsenal, but he's flopped here, there's no argument. That being said, Ibrahimovic at 35 was immediately a leader for us, and had a great scoring rate. In today's market, a 26 year old of Alderweireld's quality is going to cost us £75m. We have the chance to sign him for a third of that. We can't just discard the opportunity to improve our squad within our budget just because we got our fingers burned with Sanchez.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

He could be our Ronny Johnsen. I remember Ronny was 30 when we won the Triple, and continued to offer good service for a couple more years.

Ronny was so good, a severely underrated player. If it hadn't been for injuries he would be better remembered.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's not a myth - I have watched every single game he has played for Spurs. His positioning is very good. Not saying it's perfect in every single game, but who's is?

Yh agreed, as is the case with every single one of these 'ratings' it's someone's opinion anyway. If someone understands football at more than a basic level (eg understands football has moved on from CBs like Vinnie Jones) it's clear Alderweireld is an excellent CB. Question isn't if he's a good player because look at where he is and how well he's doing - you can't be a passenger in this Spurs defensive unit, particularly when they don't have the best fullbacks in my opinion - but it's if he will suit our style of play under Ole.

If Ole wants to stick with using us as a counter attacking team, there's no point signing Alderweireld but if we want to develop into more of a possession based team I can't think of a more realistic (which is key) and better signing.

 

[golden_blunder]

There may be an element of that but they do compliment each other very well - Vertonghen is a much classier and talented player generally though. Toby has been a bit overrated by the media but he has been fantastic for Spurs - he would be Utd's best defender if he signed and by quite a distance.

Agree to disagree, more cultured maybe but smalling is our best out and out defender

 

[golden_blunder]

Amazing positioning huh :

Many examples this season that disprove the myth.

Just because you're always running away from confronting the player with the ball and dropping off doesnt mean you have great positioning.

It means you are very passive with your defending waiting for the opponent to give you the ball with their mistake, rather than forcing them to make one. It gives the attackers plenty of time and space to score goals just as it happened in a bunch of these goals from these matches.

You’ve nailed what I don’t like about him, he’s another passive defender and Lindelof is already that. Neither are great in the air either. Besides I think he’s already showing signs of his game standards dropping.

 

[Ekeke]

If all our signings take a year to settle at United Ole will get sacked.

We have got to judge players on individual merits. Sanchez was brilliant for Barcelona and Arsenal, but he's flopped here, there's no argument. That being said, Ibrahimovic at 35 was immediately a leader for us, and had a great scoring rate. In today's market, a 26 year old of Alderweireld's quality is going to cost us £75m. We have the chance to sign him for a third of that. We can't just discard the opportunity to improve our squad within our budget just because we got our fingers burned with Sanchez.

Ibra was free, didnt have huge wage demands and had just come off a great goalscoring season

He was worth a punt because he didnt cost anything. Toby costs a large chunk of money for someone in his position and if he signs for us it'll be for the money, so the money needs to be high

 

[golden_blunder]

He has poor games - every defender does - I'm basing my judgement on the over 100 games I've watched him play in a Spurs shirt.

Is it not fair to say though that he’s not been as good in the season just finished as in previous seasons?

 

[golden_blunder]

If all our signings take a year to settle at United Ole will get sacked.

We have got to judge players on individual merits. Sanchez was brilliant for Barcelona and Arsenal, but he's flopped here, there's no argument. That being said, Ibrahimovic at 35 was immediately a leader for us, and had a great scoring rate. In today's market, a 26 year old of Alderweireld's quality is going to cost us £75m. We have the chance to sign him for a third of that. We can't just discard the opportunity to improve our squad within our budget just because we got our fingers burned with Sanchez.

A 26-28 year old TA was a much better player than the 30 year old version though. I feel like people are still basing opinions on how he played a few years ago without acknowledging that actually his game has declined since then

 

[Ekeke]

You’ve nailed what I don’t like about him, he’s another passive defender and Lindelof is already that. Neither are great in the air either. Besides I think he’s already showing signs of his game standards dropping.

Agreed.

Having said that, my examples were just to pop the myth of him having "great positioning". I dare say people invented this when his tackling, interception and aerials stats were poorer than a lot of other CBs, so they just came up with something else to say thats why he doesnt need to do any of those things.

I think he's still a decent defender, just wouldnt be the best here. And going forward I think he'd be our best passer from the back and have the best range of passes.

So if we got him for nothing and he had the same wages as Lindelof for example, £120k a week then I'd have no problem with it.

Paying £25 million for someone with his contract situation, paying him big money to come to United instead of Spurs who are doing better than us and have the Champions League which, they might even be the holders of soon - and at 30 years old thats why I think there are tens of better options. Not because I dont think he would add anything.

 

[balaks]

Is it not fair to say though that he’s not been as good in the season just finished as in previous seasons?

I wouldnt say that - we would have been in serious trouble this year without him - our defensive problems this year have been mostly due to Trippier's absolutely horrific performances and a lack of stability in midfield rather than Toby declining.

 

[lysglimt]

We need one central defender - we have Lindelöf, Bailly, Jones and Smalling - and you can claim that the majority of them aren't good enough - but they are not all bad enough to warrant spending big on 2 defenders. So if we sign Alderweireld, we are not signing anyone else. And why would we build our defense on a guy who just turned 30 ?

Sign someone at least 2-3 years younger so we can build a relationship for 3-4 years minimum.

 

[devilish]

At 25m, Toby is a great option. Having said that if he is asking for crazy salaries then he's not worth the bother. The last thing we need is another Sanchez. I find Maguire to be incredibly overrated. He's the typical British bruiser with a slightly better distribution of the ball. Koulibaly would eat all those options for breakfast. However it would be crazy spending 100m on a 27 year CB.

In my opinion we should see the defence as a whole unit rather then focus on individual players. For example Joachim Anderson would be a great addition to this defence. He's young, his distribution of the ball is mint and at 6ft4 he'll provide us great air dominance that currently only Smalling can provide. I think that Joachim is a better passer of the ball then Maguire is, he's young and he's leader material. He's not perfect though. He's not as good in air as Maguire is and he's slightly slow (not as Maguire is though). However I can see us tempting Sampdoria with a 40m bid. As RB I would go for Wan Bissaka. He's strong, he's fast and he's extremely solid at the back.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Agreed.

Having said that, my examples were just to pop the myth of him having "great positioning". I dare say people invented this when his tackling, interception and aerials stats were poorer than a lot of other CBs, so they just came up with something else to say thats why he doesnt need to do any of those things.

I think he's still a decent defender, just wouldnt be the best here. And going forward I think he'd be our best passer from the back and have the best range of passes.

So if we got him for nothing and he had the same wages as Lindelof for example, £120k a week then I'd have no problem with it.

Paying £25 million for someone with his contract situation, paying him big money to come to United instead of Spurs who are doing better than us and have the Champions League which, they might even be the holders of soon - and at 30 years old thats why I think there are tens of better options. Not because I dont think he would add anything.

Ibra was free, didnt have huge wage demands and had just come off a great goalscoring season

He was worth a punt because he didnt cost anything. Toby costs a large chunk of money for someone in his position and if he signs for us it'll be for the money, so the money needs to be high

Ibrahimovic was handsomely rewarded, don't kid yourself. Alderweireld has just been a part of a defence that reached the Champions League final with no midfield and fairly ordinary fullbacks. I don't take issue with the idea that there might be better options than Alderweireld, it's that you automatically jumped to comparing him with Sanchez that I have a problem with.

 

[Ekeke]

Ibrahimovic was handsomely rewarded, don't kid yourself. Alderweireld has just been a part of a defence that reached the Champions League final with no midfield and fairly ordinary fullbacks. I don't take issue with the idea that there might be better options than Alderweireld, it's that you automatically jumped to comparing him with Sanchez that I have a problem with.

Based on what? Your assumption?

Spurs midfield has been better than their defense

Toby is the CB option just like the Sanchez deal. Doesnt mean it wont work out, but if it doesnt work out right away we'd be in the same situation as with Sanchez. I'm sorry you dont like it but thats the truth

 

[roonster09]

Based on what? Your assumption?

Football leaks showed Zlatan was earning more than 350K per week (at that time best paid player in the league) and that was excluding few bonuses.

 

[Ekeke]

Football leaks showed Zlatan was earning more than 350K per week (at that time best paid player in the league) and that was excluding few bonuses.

If thats true then it was a shit deal as well

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Based on what? Your assumption?

Spurs midfield has been better than their defense

Toby is the CB option just like the Sanchez deal. Doesnt mean it wont work out, but if it doesnt work out right away we'd be in the same situation as with Sanchez. I'm sorry you dont like it but thats the truth

Just doing a quick google search on Ibrahimovic's wages...
Here's a quote from MEN:

"According to Football Leaks: The Dirty Business of Football, Ibrahimovic was just four Premier League starts shy of triggering a clause for an extension.
The book claims that the Swede earns a basic salary of £367,640 per week, or £19.11m a year, and is due a total goal bonus of £2.86m."

So it's quite likely you were the one making assumptions about Ibrahimovic's wages.

Sanchez is only a situation because it didn't work out. Why not compare him with Robin Van Persie?

You're covering yourself, comparing him to a player that has probably been a bigger flop than Di Maria, and yet, not saying it wouldn't work out.

 

[George The Best]

Daily Star (yeah, I know) reporting that Ole is trying to block Woodward’s plan to sign Toby.

 

[In Rainbows]

Daily Star (yeah, I know) reporting that Ole is trying to block Woodward’s plan to sign Toby.

Good. Not a fan of his signing if we're all in agreement that we won't seriously challenge for the PL next season. Time to start planning for the future and I would rather have someone who will be at United for when United are expected to challenge for the PL or CL.

 

[Jammiedodger]

Read a few times now that Ole doesn't want him as he wants to work on Smalling and Jones.
Jesus Christ if thats the case we have no hope next year. I would take Ald over those two any day of the week.
This is what worries me with Ole, he's starting to stand by the deadwood and I can't stand another season of those two as first teamers. I will literally give up.

 

[George The Best]

It’s also interesting that Ole seems prepared to take on our self-appointed DoF, if the report is true. Not sure that will end well either.

 

[Garethw]

Ibra was free, didnt have huge wage demands and had just come off a great goalscoring season

He was worth a punt because he didnt cost anything. Toby costs a large chunk of money for someone in his position and if he signs for us it'll be for the money, so the money needs to be high

The Ibra was on about £400k a week (wages plus signing on fee). It was a huge financial risk to the club.

 

[Garethw]

It’s also interesting that Ole seems prepared to take on our self-appointed DoF, if the report is true. Not sure that will end well either.

If he truly wants to stick with Smalling and Jones then he’s a dead man walking. Many of us questioned his suitability for the role and if this is true, it will just reinforce that point.