To the posters saying Mourinho is done

#07 said:
We are six points behind top spot with the bulk of the season to play. Neither we or Mou are done, not by a long way.
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But that gap looks like increasing rather than decreasing. If we were playing really well but unlucky then fine, but we're not. We look just as bad as last season.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
But can we afford a season in which we don't make top 4 AGAIN.

3rd time in 4 seasons.

Especially with no progress made. Look, there's no available alternative to Mourinho atm, but if we continue to be this poor and only show false signs of progress, how can we keep him?

I want him to succeed, but we've looked terrible lately. It's worrying. We just lost 4-0 to the team he coached last season. A team that had the worst title defense in PL history.
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I don't get why people keep mentioning that last bit. It was also a team that he saw stroll to the league the season before.

At the end of the day, you concede on 30seconds and it throws the whole plan up in the air.

If they'd had 30 shots and utterly battered us it'd be one thing, but instead they seemed to score on every shot.
 
#07 said:
We are six points behind top spot with the bulk of the season to play. Neither we or Mou are done, not by a long way.
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Yep agree, it's probably time for us all to leave the ranting, and re look at it when we're not playing 2 of the toughest away games over 6 days.

If we don't play well in the next 3 games, we've got big problems.
 
Count Orduck said:
Except Pep's "tough run" still leaves City first in the league. And Conte's "bad patch" still leaves Chelsea 4th.
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And how far behind them are we in terms of points.

It's utterly absurd and deluded to claim that Mourinho has a tougher job than Klopp or Conte, both of whom took over teams who finished below us last season and didn't win a cup, and both of whom who have got their teams playing good, successful football. They're in second and fourth respectively. And it's not like they've had an easier run of games than us - they've played just as many difficult matches.
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Klopp didnt take over this season. Also, Conte was bashed by Chelsea fans and people in here alike during their "crisis" last month. Also, both teams you have mentioned have one game each week. They have a week to prepare for every game while we have 2 or 3 days.

Even City only just pipped us to fourth last year and yet Pep has them top of the league.
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You could argie they have had comparitively easy fixtures than us. We have been away to two of our worst away grounds in years. And also they are not very far in front of us. Whats the gap between the top 8 teams like??.. Its too early in the season to say, they are ahead of us, so they are way better.

The odd one out here is Mourinho, and claiming he just needs more time and has the hardest job in the league is ridiculous when other managers have taken over worse-placed teams and have completely outshone him. It's damning evidence against Mourinho that Pep, Conte and Klopp have come in and had the exact instant impact on their teams that Mourinho has so obviously failed to achieve himself.
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Managing United will always be the toughest job for any manager and that included Fergie. We have a very large and diverse fan base and every fan has their own opinion of the game wand wants different styles of football from each other. The expectation levels are higher than any other club.

Like I said, Klopp no instant impact. had half a season to prepare and still not way ahead of us.

Conte and Pep- Just cos they beat us doesnt mean they are instant success. They have also been struggling in the league and if you dont see that, then there is no point further arguing it.
 
ManchesterUnitedFan said:
Yeah and we always say that as well, and we keep being shit, except we somehow become even worse as the season goes on. I can already tell nothing is going to happen this season, I'd EASILY take top 4 at this point. Heck even top 5.
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So you have came to the conclusion that Jose hasn't worked out after 9 league games? Jesus Christ. The rules regarding newbies needs to be reviewed.
 
Sandikan said:
I don't get why people keep mentioning that last bit. It was also a team that he saw stroll to the league the season before.

At the end of the day, you concede on 30seconds and it throws the whole plan up in the air.

If they'd had 30 shots and utterly battered us it'd be one thing, but instead they seemed to score on every shot.
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Yes he won the league title with Chelsea, but the last season is recent. It was literally the last season.

They did batter us though. 4-0 is a battering. Who cares how they scored the 4 goals? We took the piss out of City fans for saying they gifted Barcelona's goals mid-week, but yet we're making the same excuse.
 
He's underachieving with what he has. When you set your team up to defend and that's what you've been practicing to concede in the first minute is a blow. What do the players do now? He's too negative. I don't mind losing while going for it but this is tough to watch. People keep saying he has't sorted out his team. He is picking the players he fancies. Back four is sorted Shaw to come back in perhaps. Midfield isn't going to change apart from Mata in for felliani, he CLEARLY doesn't fancy Carrick and we know Zlatan isn't getting dropped.

We are a mess and he's the main reason behind it.
 
walkinhop said:
Let me try differently ( not first language, etc.). We have no identity. Can you tell me what we are working towards? What is the optimal play style of this team? Forget about the players' mistakes and losses. Tell me what brand of football are we trying to incorporate? It just feels random and clueless, regardless of who is playing.
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Sorry I thought you were attacking me personally. I agree with what you're saying, and I have seen a number of ridiculous overreactions.
 
Of course he's not done. And I'm willing to give him as much time as he needs.

Rooney and Ibra both losing form at the same time as well as the enigma that is Pogba is killing his calculations. Throw in out of form Martial and some Smalling idiocy and I can't see how he can plan for. Victory.

Will need alot more transfer surgery in ext 2 windows before this levels out.

Happy to be patient
 
It's best to avoid the forum after a loss really. Even when we win, fans still find stuff to criticise.

Best wait for a few days for the knees to stop jerking.
 
In the 10 games, what have you learnt about United? Have they improved the way they play?? Nope, it's still drab. The players who shone last season are still finding their feet. Depay has been left out in the cold, Morgan is not getting starts, Shaw is not throw under the bus in his post match interviews.Bastian has been removed, Mkhi is not even involved. Zlatan who was supposed to be the savior is not firing. Rooney is past it.

He knew all this before he joined United. Lost against City, lost against Watford, drew against Stoke, won against Leicester with mostly corners, drew against Stoke, drew against Liverpool and lost at Chelsea 4-0 with absolute crap football.

Is this how United wanted to start the season? Jose has told from the start that he got all the players he asked for. Yet it feels like he has no clue where Pogba is supposed to play. He has no excuses with time. He is not new to the league. He has lost it when he was sacked at Chelsea, we have got a washed up manager with no clue of winning a game of football without his boring tactics of putting 10 men behind the ball.

Conte is new to the league and he just won 4-0. You can feck off with your "give your manager time" but this is going exactly the same way how Moyes and LvG went. Not every manager needs a season to settle down, he is supposed to be one of the best managers, then why should be he afforded time?
 
Sandikan said:
I don't get why people keep mentioning that last bit. It was also a team that he saw stroll to the league the season before.

At the end of the day, you concede on 30seconds and it throws the whole plan up in the air.

If they'd had 30 shots and utterly battered us it'd be one thing, but instead they seemed to score on every shot.
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This a hundred percent.

It was our third game in 6/7 days: Already hard.
It was away from home: More hard.
Against Chelsea (who have had a weeks rest): More hard.
Then we gift them a goal at the start: It becomes harder again.

I think blind has been found wanting in the big games. I would also question Fellaini. I just dont think he is good enough.

But i still back Mourinho a 100% and see him as the best manager we can have bar Pep.
 
Chelsea 4-0 Utd
Liverpool 0-0 Utd
Utd 1-1 Stoke
Utd 4-1 Leicester
Watford 3-1 Utd
Utd 1-2 City
1 win and 2 draws in our last 6 league games. We are 7th in the league and going backwards. Jose was this bad last season as well. All the signs look dismal.

Can we turn it around? Yes, but it needs to start Saturday against Burnley. Then we need to go on a long run. One or two games of results is just not good enough.
 
Witchking said:
In the 10 games, what have you learnt about United? Have they improved the way they play?? Nope, it's still drab. The players who shone last season are still finding their feet. Depay has been left out in the cold, Morgan is not getting starts, Shaw is not throw under the bus in his post match interviews.Bastian has been removed, Mkhi is not even involved. Zlatan who was supposed to be the savior is not firing. Rooney is past it.

He knew all this before he joined United. Lost against City, lost against Watford, drew against Stoke, won against Leicester with mostly corners, drew against Stoke, drew against Liverpool and lost at Chelsea 4-0 with absolute crap football.

Is this how United wanted to start the season? Jose has told from the start that he got all the players he asked for. Yet it feels like he has no clue where Pogba is supposed to play. He has no excuses with time. He is not new to the league. He has lost it when he was sacked at Chelsea, we have got a washed up manager with no clue of winning a game of football without his boring tactics of putting 10 men behind the ball.

Conte is new to the league and he just won 4-0. You can feck off with your "give your manager time" but this is going exactly the same way how Moyes and LvG went. Not every manager needs a season to settle down, he is supposed to be one of the best managers, then why should be he afforded time?
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This is just embarrassing.

Jose Mourinho is the most successful manager in the world
 
AndyJ1985 said:
But that gap looks like increasing rather than decreasing. If we were playing really well but unlucky then fine, but we're not. We look just as bad as last season.
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You just can't say that this early in the season.

A few weeks ago City were being compared to the invincibles and De Bruyne was the second coming of Cruyff. Because we have had some bad results, and came up against a Stoke keeper doing a Gordon Banks impression, it doesn't necessarily mean we'll fail to beat Burnley and Swansea.

There is a long way to go.
 
It's well too early to be thinking about changing managers yet ffs. This club has been sacking for fun and that's why we're struggling how we are. Yeah, Moyes should've gone he was shit. Van Gaal was insane and a poor choice. But Mourinho is a brilliant manager and needs to be given plenty of time. What is he supposed to do when Caf darlings Smalling, De Gea and Blind all feck up massively in the first 30 seconds? We need time to get it right. Klopp has been given time and they're reaping the rewards. Let's not panic just yet.
 
Hugh Jass said:
This is just embarrassing.

Jose Mourinho is the most successful manager in the world
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He might have been good. Right now i am frustrated and in hindsight, that statement does looks bad. But i don't think he has what it takes to get United to be above City, Arsenal or even Liverpool. It is going to be another fight for 4th place and Everton, Spurs are looking good as well.
 
#07 said:
You just can't say that this early in the season.

A few weeks ago City were being compared to the invincibles and De Bruyne was the second coming of Cruyff. Because we have had some bad results, and came up against a Stoke keeper doing a Gordon Banks impression, it doesn't necessarily mean we'll fail to beat Burnley and Swansea.

There is a long way to go.
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Last season and the season before there were people who chose to ignore the warning signs, and they were saying the same thing you are now. I don't buy it. All evidence so far points to us having another crap season. Obviously it's not guaranteed and things can change, but right now I'd bet on us finishing 5th - 7th.
 
Mourinho surely has made some mistakes, but I refuse to believe our best option is to sack him - implicitly saying "its all your fault".

I agree that the manager must take responsibility as well when the players don't show up for a game. But it has happened across several different managers now, last year e.g. we had the Arsenal game that looked very much like this one. It is not his sole responsibility.

Our players need to kick themselves in the arse and start playing with the required mentality, like we did 1st half against Pool. We must be able to handle it when we face adversity, which we just aren't capable of at the moment. And hasn't been for a long time.
 
I've never really warmed to Jose and still not, but to blame say he's finished is not accurate, these past three years have pretty much confirmed that every player that was here during the SAF era shouldn't be here anymore, and some of the ones picked up by LvG.

Its a strange situation for me because I really wouldn't be upset if every player we had was replaced, (bar maybe Bailly, DdG, Martial and Pogba) I find myself having no real connection to any of the squad, it might be because I'm getting older but I still love Evra, so I think its because these group of players look so disinterested in playing for this club it irks me.
 
I see many posters in here praising Conte but conveniently forget that they got thrashed in a similar way by Arsenal and liverpool just few weeks back...
 
Seems to have lost the personality that made him so successful, from day one at United I've never felt he looks as motivated.

On reputation alone you've gotta give him time to get the squad right though.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
But can we afford a season in which we don't make top 4 AGAIN.

3rd time in 4 seasons.

Especially with no progress made. Look, there's no available alternative to Mourinho atm, but if we continue to be this poor and only show false signs of progress, how can we keep him?

I want him to succeed, but we've looked terrible lately. It's worrying. We just lost 4-0 to the team he coached last season. A team that had the worst title defense in PL history.
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There is only one answer to your question. We can't push the reset button every year, we have to give Mourinho time and support, there is nothing else out there.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
Last season and the season before there were people who chose to ignore the warning signs, and they were saying the same thing you are now. I don't buy it. All evidence so far points to us having another crap season. Obviously it's not guaranteed and things can change, but right now I'd bet on us finishing 5th - 7th.
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What evidence? We were all over Stoke and a De Gea fumble cost us three points. Fine, we've been bad against other top teams but those are always a bit of pot luck. Van Gaal had a superb record in the big games. It generally doesn't mean much.

For me the worst game of the season has been Watford (A), because you need to pick up points against lesser sides to win the league. That being said, because other sides are stumbling we've been let off the hook for that. We now go into a run of games now where we're playing teams more of the level of Fenerbache than Chelsea and Liverpool. If we don't beat them then I'll re-evaluate my opinion. For now I'm not worried though.

Six points off first with 29 matches left is not an impossible bridge to cross.
 
I don't know where I stand but I see people bringing up the same points that fans used with LVG.

"Lots of deadwood to clear"
"He needs time"
"He inherited a disjointed squad"
"Track record"

It's far too early to think about sacking him, but FFS Jose stop playing Rashford at LEFT BACK. I defended Mourinho on Monday because in the first half at least, we were excellent in midfield and defence, it was just attack that let us down. Instead we've now gone backwards and let ourselves down in all 3 departments. I wanted to see us come and press Chelsea and get a couple of fouls in, to disrupt their play. Instead we sat off them and were asleep and we paid for it literally within 30 seconds.
 
JPRouve said:
There is only one answer to your question. We can't push the reset button every year, we have to give Mourinho time and support, there is nothing else out there.
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Yes that's really the only thing we can do.

Will Woodward do it though if we fail to make top 4?
 
bleedred said:
I see many posters in here praising Conte but conveniently forget that they got thrashed in a similar way by Arsenal and liverpool just few weeks back...
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They weren't thrashed by Liverpool.
 
I recall Mourinho saying something very interesting after the Liverpool game: that we have a tough sequence of fixtures coming up and that our time will come where we must reel off 5-6-7 victories in a row. I got the feeling he wasn't expecting anything from today.

Agreed with OP. We have a lot of short-termists on this board.

There's something wrong with the squad and it doesn't have to do with the abilities of the players. There's no way on paper we should be losing like this. I fear it's to do with the mentalities of the players. Jose is the right person to change that.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Yes that's really the only thing we can do.

Will Woodward do it though if we fail to make top 4?
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Top 4 isn't our goal, so who cares if we reach it or not this season? The goal is to build something that will make us the best team in the world for a prolonged period of time.
 
I'd sell the entire squad before I'd get rid of Jose however it's concerning that he's got his team so wrong in two big games now (today and City)
 
Irrational. said:
I recall Mourinho saying something very interesting after the Liverpool game: that we have a tough sequence of fixtures coming up and that our time will come where we must reel off 5-6-7 victories in a row. I got the feeling he wasn't expecting anything from today.

Agreed with OP. We have a lot of short-termists on this board.

There's something wrong with the squad and it doesn't have to do with the abilities of the players. There's no way on paper we should be losing like this. I fear it's to do with the mentalities of the players. Jose is the right person to change that.
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But that doesnt excuse Mou playing Rashford (a young striker still learning his game) as a fullback, likewise Lingard. And playing Fellaini because he offers 'physical presence' (which hasnt helped at all this season). Mou's making some basic mistakes, and he's got to wash last season out of his system, and stop approaching things so negatively. When we have the likes of Martial, Mkhi, Mata, Carrick, Shaw not playing, questions have to be asked - at least some of them are better than those in the first team, and can actually play in there preferred position.

People are saying stick by him if he finishes outside the top 4, but i cant see the club being so charitable. They'll have a contingency, after the previous failures, whether that be eg Allegri or Enrique. But I really hope it doesnt come to that.
 
I'm not going to say he's finished, but he looks like the same guy who was on Chelsea's touchline last season when the bottom fell out. I don't see anything to indicate that he's back to the past manager that won titles or even could finish in the top half of the table. While there are still a lot of games to be played and we're doing alright in Europa and League Cup so far, today was damning. It was in a different context but I put this on the level of Moyes losing his first game against his old Everton, probably even worse. It was that bad.

When we hired Mourinho, I saw it as a quick-fix type of hiring where he would put his imprint on the team almost from the beginning and get us winning some games. Like was posted earlier, Mourinho doesn't even have the excuse LVG did of coming to a new league. He has been in this league for years and had months while out of a job to scout our existing players and have an idea of how he wanted to use them. Except for an odd few minutes, we don't seem to have any plan for getting forward and winning, which is a joke considering how much talent we do have.

Quite honestly, I think a few good/semi-decent results are covering up for how poorly he's done. For one, I think Ibrahimovic was a terrible signing for us. I like him and he will score goals but he's a 35-year-old striker coming from the continent who wasn't very fast to begin with. Ibra is the complete opposite of the striker that we badly needed last season, when Rooney was trudging around and failing again and again. Vardy, a quick-footed striker who can cut through the lines and is dangerous on counters (which actually would've fit Mourinho's style TBH), had put his name out in the transfer market but the club and fans seemed to want an anvil with a pony tail and cool accent. Pogba was also a ridiculous overspend when we could've gotten more support up front and another midfielder. Add to this the questions of where Miki. is and what he's doing (I found it a bit odd that he was in casual clothes for the Europa League match instead of the club jacket) and he's marginalized a world class MF in Schweinsteiger, who is not the same player he was but IMO doesn't deserve the shit he's gotten.

I'll readily admit that as a person, I think Mourinho is a piece of shit and it no doubt feeds my bias. But to say that he needs time when he's never a long-term manager is a real clutch at straws. I don't expect us to win every game, I don't expect us to even make a serious run at the title, I simply expect us to have a cohesive game plan, because I don't buy that our players aren't good enough. Mangers like Klopp, Bilic last season, Koeman, etc have set teams in cohesive plans with much less talent. We don't need a lineup of 11 world class players to look like we know what we're doing.

I'm not calling for him to be sacked, especially that there's no one around to step in, but his leash needs to be short. We can accept not being title contenders but results like today are beyond what this club should call acceptable.
 
He hasn't been the same Jose since his exit from Madrid. I'd argue the signs were starting to show as early as the first few months of his last year there. Still a Top 4 manager in the world IMO, and I wouldn't trade him for anyone but Simeone at the moment. However, I am starting to entertain doubts that his best days may be behind him.
 
Mourinho "siege" mentality doesn't work any longer.
 
redNATION said:
But that doesnt excuse Mou playing Rashford (a young striker still learning his game) as a fullback, likewise Lingard. And playing Fellaini because he offers 'physical presence' (which hasnt helped at all this season). Mou's making some basic mistakes, and he's got to wash last season out of his system, and stop approaching things so negatively. When we have the likes of Martial, Mkhi, Mata, Carrick, Shaw not playing, questions have to be asked - at least some of them are better than those in the first team, and can actually play in there preferred position.

People are saying stick by him if he finishes outside the top 4, but i cant see the club being so charitable. They'll have a contingency, after the previous failures, whether that be eg Allegri or Enrique. But I really hope it doesnt come to that.
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What difference would these players have made today to the goals conceded (First two atleast)??
 
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