To the posters saying Mourinho is done

I violently dislike Mourinho. Always have always will. This isnt his fault though. The problem just wasnt LVG either, it's the lack of quality.

It's a rebuilding job. Mou isnt a rebuilding manager though, he's a short term succes who leaves after it starts going south.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
If City fans are criticising Pep already, that would be news to me. I see a degree of coherence and something new with what Conte had to implement, so I can understand the growing pains. I really don't see what Jose is doing differently that we need to be so patient with. He has had excellent investment, bought his first choice players at every position and still he has us playing wank football while looking helpless against any half good team we played this season.

I can understand someone being optimistic if there is a reason to do so and Jose has so far not inspired any degree of confidence from me.
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We've obviously trying to implement something drastically different from last season. The way we're trying to play is in many ways the opposite of what LVG drilled into the players. Makes no sense you're prepared to give Conte time but not Mourinho; the same Conte that previous to today lost to Liverpool and Arsenal.
 
I know it doesn't really sound right saying this about Mourinho because it comes with the package but he really needs to learn who to respect and who not to. Chelsea didn't deserve the respect we gave them today. Absolutely no need to setup the way we did.
 
IgnorantLobster said:
All I read in the summer was people saying that this was a good thing, and that Jose would thrive.
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Speaking personally, I think Mourinho was the best available option, and still is. If this club is going to insist on the current hierarchy where the manager is essentially an autocrat, then I can't think of anyone else who was available who would've been a better choice.
 
bosnian_red said:
Hes not done. But the tactics have been wrong from the start. Also wrong mentality and thinking in picking fellaini so often, hes awful and only meant to disrupt the game.
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He was in there like why he was in there for Liverpool. To offer a physical presence and disrupt Mata and Pedro going through the middle. The plan and set-up seemed to be to play for a point again and see if we can nick it with Martial and Mata in the second half. I am angry we lost the game we did but the 1st and 2nd goals were not down to bad tactics. Smalling was off today and Blind cannot handle speedy wingers. 3rd and 4th goals we were just throwing bodies up the pitch so nothing we can do.

People also overlooked one thing. Chelsea players clearly wanted to stick it to Mou today. They came out firing.

Don't get me wrong there are some serious issues to be addressed as the midfield needs fixing and guys like Miki and Martial need to play more. However, to say Mou needs to be sacked or anything is just crazy. Who are the alternatives?

Some players clearly need to be moved on but Mou can't clear all the Moyes and LVG deadwood in one year. I said in another post that some players are clearly psychologically damaged especially under the LVG era. Some were never United material in the first place.
 
1st goal: Collective feck up from Smalling, Blind and De Gea
2nd goal: Luckt deflection and Smalling lost his marker
3rd goal: Shit defence overall and Smalling again failed to do anything
4th goal: Embarrasing from Pogba and Smalling, made Kante look like Messi

Chelsea were clearly the better side and deserved to win today, but we pretty much gifted them all four goals. Some absolutely pathetic stuff from our defenders today, and especially Smalling who looked like an amateur out there.

Neither Pogba nor Zlatan had good games today, but singling them out today is unfair imo. Plenty of other players who did worse, and when you ship four fecking goals you can't really blame your striker can you?

Our attack looks really disjonted and it seems none of them have any understanding. When Zlatan tries to hold up play, both our wingers are usually nowhere near him and the distance between our attacking players is just massive. There are no runs in behind or clever movements and we are painfully predictable in attack.
 
And we always say that... "Oh just give him more time", accept that we're going to be utter shite this season, Mourinho hasn't worked out.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I violently dislike Mourinho. Always have always will. This isnt his fault though. The problem just wasnt LVG either, it's the lack of quality.
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this. LVG didn't help though. His transfers were just horrible
 
liamp said:
Speaking personally, I think Mourinho was the best available option, and still is. If this club is going to insist on the current hierarchy where the manager is essentially an autocrat, then I can't think of anyone else who was available who would've been a better choice.
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I completely agree!
 
Varun said:
I know it doesn't really sound right saying this about Mourinho because it comes with the package but he really needs to learn who to respect and who not to. Chelsea didn't deserve the respect we gave them today. Absolutely no need to setup the way we did.
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It comes with the Mourinho territory unfortunately.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
They played upto their talent level in his first year and now they are exceeding it. Can you say that we are playing to our talent level right now? I mean if the players are good, the blame rests with the manager right?
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No not at the moment, nor have we for the last 3 years, there's clearly some deep rooted problems at the club that were there well before Mourinho arrived, agreed? Maybe we should give him more than a dozen games to correct that.
 
Mourinho never given the chance to turn things around at Chelsea. We should be more patient with him. Not that he has no track record at all.
 
IgnorantLobster said:
Sorry but I seriously can't understand what you're saying. I'm personally a little frustrated with Jose's set up from the start (I posted this fact in the pre-match thread) but I think there has understandably been a massive overreaction. It's 9 Premier League games in, everyone will calm down soon.
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Let me try differently ( not first language, etc.). We have no identity. Can you tell me what we are working towards? What is the optimal play style of this team? Forget about the players' mistakes and losses. Tell me what brand of football are we trying to incorporate? It just feels random and clueless, regardless of who is playing.
 
This is not Joses fault. This can be traced back to Fergie. When he made his speech on the pitch about the quality of the squad he was leaving I think he actually believed it. I didn't. Criminally neglected the squad. Handed over a squad in dire need of a complete overhaul and handed the keys to the Kingdom to Moyes.
 
VP89 said:
Can you feck off?

We're not even 10 games into the season, and there are post flying about already about how he's not the right man.

Blaming Mourinho after the 3rd and 4th goal when it has nothing to do with him anymore. Smalling might as well be a lamp post, we just lost Baily (again, not to do with the manager) and I'm finding countless posts about how finished our manager is.

Yeah, he shouldn't have started Fellaini IMO but that is the sole qualm I can have about the way we set out today. The laps in concentration in the first 30 seconds is all on our players shoulders, and they're the ones needing to talk a strong look at themselves. Its like the patience of some fans is getting worse and worse each year. Christ.
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The way he acts , the way he select his team , the way he get the team ready , the way he use his tactics , the way he organize , the way he uses his record signing , and tactics : A world class manager should be able to do some improvements with the style and organization . Early signs are not good at all .
 
He needs to adapt and be quicker in fixing things that just aren't working. The team is carrying too many lazy players in big games like this. Pogba strolling about in midfield was killing us. Today was a weird one though. We created as much as them but they finished absolutely everything. Mostly because we were under pressure on every chance we had and they had an eternity. The midfield have to be helping the defence and they were nowhere near.

Herrera is capable of putting in good performances but the reality is that he's not good enough to be our main midfielder, defending and setting the tempo. The formation isn't working either. He's got a lot of problems and some are of his own doing.
 
VP89 said:
I think the game would have been completely different had we not been chasing the game from 2-0. I don't think either goal had anything to do with the way Mourinho selected his first XI. They were just brainfarts from single players.
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The question is then, were we in a state to revive ourselves after going down? Do we have the quality to stem the rot and make ourselves back through?
 
Cheesy said:
Again, the vast, vast majority do not think we should sack Mourinho. But it is interesting to discuss how he's done so far and how he's arguably changed as a manager, to an extent.
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I don't think it's too far a journey from saying that the manager is done to saying that he should be sacked. Especially at a club, which let's be honest, whose fan base is a bit spoilt.

I do agree that he has changed and last season would have affected him more than anybody else. But he has to be given some amount of time at least. The best defender in our squad is Smalling. That says a lot about the job he has on his hands.
 
The guy at southampton started from the scratch this season too and he doesn't shit his pants in big games like today against city and it paid off, what a surprise, football in 2016...

I am not calling for Mourinho's head but we could have done better.. but no one has guts to make this kind of appointment, I mean manager with not big CV like Mourinho, UTD always going the safe way, the director of football would definitely come in handy..
 
bleedred said:
Didnt you hear the boos at HT today??

Conte has had all week to prepare for this game...We have had 2 days.

We beat Soton convincingly, who managed to hold off city and we won against Bournemouth, who drew with tottenham...so were helpless aginst them or were they not "any half good team".
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That was anything but convincing.
 
bleedred said:
And many in here were saying similar about Pep as well, You have conveniently left him out because they are in a tough run now..

Also, didnt conte also go through a bad patch like last month or so....
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Except Pep's "tough run" still leaves City first in the league. And Conte's "bad patch" still leaves Chelsea 4th.

It's utterly absurd and deluded to claim that Mourinho has a tougher job than Klopp or Conte, both of whom took over teams who finished below us last season and didn't win a cup, and both of whom who have got their teams playing good, successful football. They're in second and fourth respectively. And it's not like they've had an easier run of games than us - they've played just as many difficult matches.

Even City only just pipped us to fourth last year and yet Pep has them top of the league.

The odd one out here is Mourinho, and claiming he just needs more time and has the hardest job in the league is ridiculous when other managers have taken over worse-placed teams and have completely outshone him. It's damning evidence against Mourinho that Pep, Conte and Klopp have come in and had the exact instant impact on their teams that Mourinho has so obviously failed to achieve himself.
 
Sandikan said:
It's 9 games into the league season mate. At least hold off until Christmas!
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Yeah and we always say that as well, and we keep being shit, except we somehow become even worse as the season goes on. I can already tell nothing is going to happen this season, I'd EASILY take top 4 at this point. Heck even top 5.
 
redindian1987 said:
I don't think it's too far a journey from saying that the manager is done to saying that he should be sacked. Especially at a club, which let's be honest, whose fan base is a bit spoilt.

I do agree that he has changed and last season would have affected him more than anybody else. But he has to be given some amount of time at least. The best defender in our squad is Smalling. That says a lot about the job he has on his hands.
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And very few people are definitively saying he's done...just that there are some worrying signs.
 
Varun said:
I know it doesn't really sound right saying this about Mourinho because it comes with the package but he really needs to learn who to respect and who not to. Chelsea didn't deserve the respect we gave them today. Absolutely no need to setup the way we did.
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The setup was not the reason we lost today. This was not a tactical loss.. This was player turning to shit...
 
Member 5225 said:
agreed with this

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But can we afford a season in which we don't make top 4 AGAIN.

3rd time in 4 seasons.

Especially with no progress made. Look, there's no available alternative to Mourinho atm, but if we continue to be this poor and only show false signs of progress, how can we keep him?

I want him to succeed, but we've looked terrible lately. It's worrying. We just lost 4-0 to the team he coached last season. A team that had the worst title defense in PL history.
 
It the run of games that's horrible. Which team would like to play Liverpool , Fenerbache, Chelsea , Man city in a week and half? We need to come out of some cups for us to survive.
 
Member 5225 said:
Sorry but Jones, Rojo, Lingard (arguably), Smalling, Fellaini, et all just aren't good enough...
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He has alternatives for every one of those players if he thinks they are not good enough, well except may be Smalling. He could as well have Darmian, Shaw in place of Rojo, Carrick or Schneiderlin in place of Fellaini, Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata or Young in place of Lingard if he wanted to. I'm not sure if the fact that he is still playing over the other options suggests he doesn't agree with your assessment or if he thinks the others are even worse.
 
redindian1987 said:
I don't think it's too far a journey from saying that the manager is done to saying that he should be sacked. Especially at a club, which let's be honest, whose fan base is a bit spoilt.

I do agree that he has changed and last season would have affected him more than anybody else. But he has to be given some amount of time at least. The best defender in our squad is Smalling. That says a lot about the job he has on his hands.
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No it's not!!!
 
Esquire said:
He was in there like why he was in there for Liverpool. To offer a physical presence and disrupt Mata and Pedro going through the middle. The plan and set-up seemed to be to play for a point again and see if we can nick it with Martial and Mata in the second half. I am angry we lost the game we did but the 1st and 2nd goals were not down to bad tactics. Smalling was off today and Blind cannot handle speedy wingers. 3rd and 4th goals we were just throwing bodies up the pitch so nothing we can do.

People also overlooked one thing. Chelsea players clearly wanted to stick it to Mou today. They came out firing.

Don't get me wrong there are some serious issues to be addressed as the midfield needs fixing and guys like Miki and Martial need to play more. However, to say Mou needs to be sacked or anything is just crazy. Who are the alternatives?

Some players clearly need to be moved on but Mou can't clear all the Moyes and LVG deadwood in one year. I said in another post that some players are clearly psychologically damaged especially under the LVG era. Some were never United material in the first place.
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I agree the individual defensive performances were awful, but be proactive. Chelsea isn't very good. Look at how Arsenal and Liverpool dismantled them. We can go there and dominate them and outplay them, we don't have to fecking contain any half decent team. Liverpool I understood and agree with. Chelsea? feck that. Us conceding in the first minute ruined that tactic but if we had the right set up from the start, then we would've been better prepared to get back into it.

As for the players being fired up. It's a big game. Everyone should be fired up. Van Gaal, for all his faults, managed to get us fired up against Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal/City almost every time. Why have we under Mourinho been lacking in intensity against both City and Chelsea so far? Decent intensity against Liverpool, but clearly lacking in the other 2 and it costed us big time.

Anyway, not saying Mou out or anything. He's the right appointment, but he himself needs to change loads, including his mentality. Don't play shit like Fellaini with the goal being to disrupt. Be proactive and outplay the opposition. Play our most talented players and put some faith in those who are the best on the pitch when they play like Mata and Carrick.
 
thegregster said:
All the other top teams in the PL bar Arsenal change managers and players constantly. They are like a revolving door as well.
Managers have a shelf life of around 3-4 seasons max these days.
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Managing United is completely different from managing any other club in England. Also, look at Klopp. It's only now after 8 months that we're seeing what he can do. Spurs: their manager had a whole year before his methods really started working. Conte had the advantage of working with a set of players who won the league not soo long ago, yet he lost to Arsenal and Liverpool. Managers need time to work with players.
 
Member 5225 said:
agreed with this
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The majority of the mess last season was in attack - particularly not creating or scoring enough goals. Defensively we were no VDS/Rio/Vida but it wasn't a complete shitshow either.

Fast forward a transfer window with the three biggest signings being attack minded, a new manager and 5 months and we're putting up two scoresheet blanks in a week and shitting the bed 4-0 away. The majority of the deadwood is still here, he's just decided to aim his ruthless wrath at one player in particular.

If last season can be labelled a mess, his tactic of clearing up so far involves ripping the kitchen unit doors off their hinges and throwing plates, pots and pans around to try and find the mop, giving up and just vomitting on the original mess.
 
We are six points behind top spot with the bulk of the season to play. Neither we or Mou are done, not by a long way.
 
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