Time to get militant?

I was in here saying the reaction to Brighton wasn’t just one game but it was a reaction after 12 months of shit but even I think this is too far. The worryingly overreaction to transfer targets is a concern as well.
It’s as if our mind is made up and we aren’t giving Ten Hag time to fail. It’s already a failure
 
Militant :lol::lol:

It's an easy thing to type on your keyboard. Another thing to waste your precious weekend throwing carling cans at Old Trafford windows.
 
sglowrider said:
So if united was winning the urge to protest will subside?

I hate the cnuts but I really don't know if there is a solution unless you have some benevolent benefactor or some sovereign fund. Both aren't necessarily positive directions.
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It is not just about winning. Winning would slow down the protests but the lack of ambition has never been clearer. This makes supporters madder including myself.

I don't know. The current one is so bad I am cautious to say any other alternative would be bad. It is strange because they do not employ competent people and they do not want to spend. So this will only make the value of the asset diminish.
 
sglowrider said:
So if united was winning the urge to protest will subside?

I hate the cnuts but I really don't know if there is a solution unless you have some benevolent benefactor or some sovereign fund. Both aren't necessarily positive directions.
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That's been the historic issue - especially during Ole's time. Dissenting voices would be raised as results and performances tanked, but then Ole would pull a rabbit out of a hat (usually Ronaldo) and people would do the old fashioned 'turning the corner' shtick. We need consistent, driven action irrespective of the performances on the pitch.

- 90mins of consistent chanting, banners out (as a minimum)
- pitch invasions
- trespassing Old Trafford and causing games to be cancelled, especially when televised.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
If they keep allowing the club to spend more than any other club and pay the highest wages in world football, and if they follow through and let the DOF look after football matters, then things will improve in time

If people are upset about murtagh then that really is childish. Woodward is understandable, murtagh is a football person
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It's only childish if your head was buried in the sand throughout the whole summer.
 
This is obviously the only way forward.

People like JP (ex RI editor) helped run the last one against Liverpool. It took a lot of people to organise but true details of the event were never released outside of a small circle. The protest outside the ground was essentially a decoy for what happened outside the Lowry Hotel (blocking the coach).

Again, future protests needs to be organised by clued up match going reds rather than anonymous Twitter accounts.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Set the keyboard down, Karen.
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How else do you suggest we get these cancerous parasites out?

As other users have said, the PL has set rules out to prevent owners doing what the Glazers did to us. But sure, throw an impotent insult out.
 
Anyone deriding others for having the temerity to suggest ways of getting shot of the Glazers are oddballs.

The horrible cnuts won the golden ticket when Fergie was still here and it masked how bad they actually are. Fergie retired and the house of cards came tumbling down. We need them out or it's hard to imagine the club will ever be competently ran again.
 
AlexUTD said:
People could stop going to the matches and spend money in the Megastore but i guess that is too much to ask.
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Brilliant idea mate, if only it had been thought of, discussed, and tried numerous times to varying degrees before.
 
AlexUTD said:
People could stop going to the matches and spend money in the Megastore but i guess that is too much to ask.
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Who do you think is buying the tat from the megastore (and also a large chunk of the tickets)? It'll be tourists and kids. They aren't invested enough to engage in ways to hurt the owners of Man Utd.
 
Utd heap said:
Brilliant idea mate, if only it had been thought of, discussed, and tried numerous times to varying degrees before.
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Well i know it has been discussed mate and nerver been done anything about it, that is why i say that i guess it is too much to ask. Hurting Glazers is making them lose money.

Until we make them lose money we can rant as much as we want cause they will never leave then.
 
AlexUTD said:
Well i know it has been discussed mate and nerver been done anything about it, that is why i say that i guess it is too much to ask. Hurting Glazers is making them lose money.

Until we make them lose money we can rant as much as we want cause they will never leave then.
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Never done anything about it? About 5000 ST holders walked away from the club in 2005. That ship has now sailed, the form of protest is effective but is now entirely impossible at OT. It's alternatives or just don't bother at all.
 
Since i joined this forum when Rangnick joined, because i like to watch new coaches at big clubs, i have never seen so much discontent like with McFred. I thought McT had some good games under Rangnick and is not that bad, at least he's giving his all. These young lads need a proper functioning axis to perform. That being said, i can't see them tuning it up the next games with all that pressure, add Ronaldo obviously not giving a sh1t, yes the Liverpool game will be interesting. I mean Neville said on TV it's time to sell.
I still think the club was run above average commercially since the Glazers took over. RR was their chance. He is not a genius like Klopp, but he has that methodical german autism like work ethic combined with tons of experience, he knows probably most talents in europe. I think he would have told them right away that Martinez and Malacia are too short.
 
redcucumber said:
Who do you think is buying the tat from the megastore (and also a large chunk of the tickets)? It'll be tourists and kids. They aren't invested enough to engage in ways to hurt the owners of Man Utd.
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Buy the kids non official merch. Tourists are also fans,if they see that season ticket holders and other regulars stop going it can change. A movement needs to start from somewhere and then get traction.
 
Utd heap said:
Never done anything about it? About 5000 ST holders walked away from the club in 2005. That ship has now sailed, the form of protest is effective but is now entirely impossible at OT. It's alternatives or just don't bother at all.
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5000 of awesome people,too bad they did not get backed by the rest of the fans.

The social media are way bigger now than in 2005,we need to use it.
 
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I think it would really have to be a fully fledged boycott, like in AC Milan case few years back. I'm not from Manchester myself thought, not a ST holder and only visited Old Trafford a couple of times, so I can't do much myself and can't be overly critical over match-going fans - to get rid of Glazers IMO we'd need much higher level of solidarity and drive to kick them out, you'd really need a coordinated effort without those sabotaging and calling out protesting fans. Can't see it happening anytime soon.
 
gica_7 said:
It is not just about winning. Winning would slow down the protests but the lack of ambition has never been clearer. This makes supporters madder including myself.

I don't know. The current one is so bad I am cautious to say any other alternative would be bad. It is strange because they do not employ competent people and they do not want to spend. So this will only make the value of the asset diminish.
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Let's look at it another way -- look at the destination and then work our way backwards -- a logical approach of what our objective is and then how do we get there.

I am also basing my premise on the fact that it will take £6-8billion at least to buy Manchester United. (Chelsea being the current benchmark of £4.3billion.)

Who do we want buying & owning the club? What do they appreciate and not? Then work our way backwards. These are my possibilities:

1. Sovereign funds from the more authoritarian regimes like the Saudis. I bet they won't appreciate militant protests considering that they would like to use United as a white/sportswash platform.
Chinese? Other Middle-Eastern funds? The best case is the Norwegians, Singaporeans sovereign funds but they won't touch United as the revenues are too unstable.

2. So 'benevolent' multi-billionaire like a Bezos. He will strictly look at United as an investment. Say he pays £ 6 billion to take over the club. How will he recover or get an ROI on that investment?
(Forget about Jim Radcliffe isn't rich enough to spend that sort of money unless he cobbles together a bunch of his friends. But Radcliffe doesn't strike me as the sort of billionaire who likes to make consensus-building decisions.)

3. The only ones will be the multi-billionaires who buy United for fun -- like Paul Allen. (Ok he is dead but he spent his billions for fun.) So like the Google Bros. They can afford to spend 6-8billion.
But will they if they see United as a non-fun entity to own? Militant fans, death threats, fire at their front gates or being hassled at car parks.
Will they want to spend their time looking over their shoulders?


Am I missing another type of potential owner?
 
There was people on this forum calling out protesters not entering the game against Norwich till the 17th minute as attention seekers. Until the fan base unites as one the glazers keep winning. The abuse the 1958 group get from people here and the 'real reds' is just absurd. Hopefully we see the same level of Protests that got the game against Liverpool cancelled, its the only way a message gets across.
 
sglowrider said:
Let's look at it another way -- look at the destination and then work our way backwards -- a logical approach of what our objective is and then how do we get there.

I am also basing my premise on the fact that it will take £6-8billion at least to buy Manchester United. (Chelsea being the current benchmark of £4.3billion.)

Who do we want buying & owning the club? What do they appreciate and not? Then work our way backwards. These are my possibilities:

1. Sovereign funds from the more authoritarian regimes like the Saudis. I bet they won't appreciate militant protests considering that they would like to use United as a white/sportswash platform.
Chinese? Other Middle-Eastern funds? The best case is the Norwegians, Singaporeans sovereign funds but they won't touch United as the revenues are too unstable.

2. So 'benevolent' multi-billionaire like a Bezos. He will strictly look at United as an investment. Say he pays £ 6 billion to take over the club. How will he recover or get an ROI on that investment?
(Forget about Jim Radcliffe isn't rich enough to spend that sort of money unless he cobbles together a bunch of his friends. But Radcliffe doesn't strike me as the sort of billionaire who likes to make consensus-building decisions.)

3. The only ones will be the multi-billionaires who buy United for fun -- like Paul Allen. (Ok he is dead but he spent his billions for fun.) So like the Google Bros. They can afford to spend 6-8billion.
But will they if they see United as a non-fun entity to own? Militant fans, death threats, fire at their front gates or being hassled at car parks.
Will they want to spend their time looking over their shoulders?


Am I missing another type of potential owner?
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I know it’s hard to grasp and achieve, but.. the fans?
 
first and foremost, we need to educate and unite the fanbase.

unfortunately, there are still too many ignorant fans defending the glazers with repeated crap like: 'but we have spend so much money on players' or 'its the players/coaches/woodward etc'.
as if the glazers were only observing gods without any responsibility for the management of the club...

some people still don't get it after 17 years that 1) the glazers funelling over 1 billion out of the club and 2) the club grossly misspending IT'S OWN MONEY (repeat: not the glazers' money) are two different things. people still don't understand that the club burning cash for fun is not a defense of the glazers, it actually only adds insult to injury. Because the glazers have taken money out of the club AND let their buddies woodward and co. destroy the club from the inside with pathetic mismanagement.

maybe the @mods can create a sticky thread with the help of some knowledgeable posters to explain all of this? FAQs of some sort.
If i read 'but we have spent so much money, the glazers are not at fault' one more time I will pull my hairs out.
 
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To all the protesters who are at least trying. Thanks from a supporter on the other side of the world.
To all the people who give the protesters a hard time and no support. Feck off.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I know it’s hard to grasp and achieve, but.. the fans?
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Fan ownership? Have you seen whats happened to Barcelona? Bartomeu wrecked the club with his wild spending. Now Laporta's developed all his nebulous levers and their crazy business models that stretch into 25years out?

There is no accountability. They are in £1.3billion debt and now locked into 25years deals -- there is no way anyone can come in and bail them out -- because they are fan owned.
 
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sglowrider said:
Fan ownership? Have you seen whats happened to Barcelona?
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I was just adding the option, but yeah since you ask: it’s tough to decide what type of ownership is the best in modern football where the competition is actual statebacked clubs with neverending pockets.

From a romantic perspective, definitely fan ownership, from a cynical one it’s probably only viable via an Elon Musk owner.. hence the latter is unrealistic, I believe I’d want fan ownership and at least control the ship somehow partly - fans can after all decide the hierarchy and also decide which competence (or incompetence) that should lead the club. At least if we hire incompetence, then the clubs misery would be our own fault as fans, not misery caused by some american parasites
 
Salwan said:
first and foremost, we need to educate and unite the fanbase.

unfortunately, there are still to many ignorant fans defending the glazers with repeated crap like: 'but we have spend so much money on players' or 'its the players/coaches/woodward etc'.
as if the glazers were only observing gods without any responsibility for the management of the club...

some people still don't get it after 17 years that 1) the glazers funelling over 1 billion out of the club and 2) the club grossly misspending IT'S OWN MONEY (repeat: not the glazers' money) are two different things. people still don't understand that the club burning cash for fun is not a defense of the glazers, it actually only adds insult to injury. Because the glazers have taken money out of the club AND let their buddies woodward and co. destroy the club from the inside with pathetic mismanagement.

maybe the @mods can create a sticky thread with the help of some knowledgeable posters to explain all of this? FAQs of some sort.
If i read 'but we have spent so much money, the glazers are not at fault' one more time I will pull my hairs out.
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You need an objective and how to get there ie a plan -- that's how you unite the fan base. Otherwise its just a social-validation feedback loop.

Is there a plan?
 
ROFLUTION said:
I was just adding the option, but yeah since you ask: it’s tough to decide what type of ownership is the best in modern football where the competition is actual statebacked clubs with neverending pockets.

From a romantic perspective, definitely fan ownership, from a cynical one it’s probably only viable via an Elon Musk owner.. hence the latter is unrealistic, I believe I’d want fan ownership and at least control the ship somehow partly - fans can after all decide the hierarchy and also decide which competence (or incompetence) that should lead the club. At least if we hire incompetence, then the clubs misery would be our own fault as fans, not misery caused by some american parasites
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1. Elon is batshit crazy and a media whore. I wouldn't count him as one of the good potential owners.

2. Fan owner seems like a good idea but the worst case scenario we are seeing in Barcelona. The club's in a financial clusterfeck -- and since its a fan-owned club you cant have some rich billionaire swoop down and bail them out.
The problem with fan-owned clubs is that every few years you have elections -- then every president of the club sounds like he is running for election every day. Look at the crap laporta is spewing out now?
If you think United is divided and toxic now, imagine the situation where we are in debt of $1.3 billion and sold out a bunch of your assets?

3. So who has money -- Chinese, Americans and Middle Eastern billionaires. Ratcliffe cant afford to buy United and besides he looks like he runs each of his sporting clubs like its a business -- like the Glazers.
 
If you’re not going to go full-on militant, why not turn on the players who aren’t good enough?

Mass booing of your own players would get more media coverage than a semi-walk out. And some of those players (Maguire, Rashford etc) would not be able to handle it and would be looking to get out the door asap. Pogba’s booing got loads of coverage, and if it was at the start of the season the pressure would be right on.

And if you sign Arnautovic, you have the power to drive him out of the club if you turn on him from the off.
 
Rocksy said:
If you’re not going to go full-on militant, why not turn on the players who aren’t good enough? Mass booing of you’re own players would get more media coverage than a semi-walk out. And some of those players (Maguire, Rashford etc) would not be able to handle it and would be looking to get out the door asap.
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In a sea of terrible ideas - you win.
 
Utd heap said:
We've been militant before, and we'll be militant again. Lacking a figurehead(s) currently. The 1958 are having a crack but there's no real momentum yet - if we lose to Brentford...

Liverpool might get tasty.
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Plenty of them about, they just need a gentle nudge to get back involved
 
Rocksy said:
How’s it a terrible idea?
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because it would make us look like a bunch of classless idiots?

or because the players themselves aren't at fault for the glazers mismanagement?

or because your actually supposed to support your team?

or because it will achieve nothing other than upset the players we have resulting in a worse performing squad than we have?
 
distant_red said:
Where's a horde of Karens when you need them. "I want to speak to the owners! I don't care if they're busy, get them, NOW!"
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Maybe that's why we're signing Rabiot. His mother will be the first general of our army of Karens. The Glazers are falling into Arnold's trap.
 
AdNani said:
because it would make us look like a bunch of classless idiots?

or because the players themselves aren't at fault for the glazers mismanagement?

or because your actually supposed to support your team?

or because it will achieve nothing other than upset the players we have resulting in a worse performing squad than we have?
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- Classless idiots? So what? It’s football. You’ve changed anti-dipper songs before, I’m sure.

- The players aren’t at fault? The players have a lot of responsibility for the results and performances.

- It will achieve nothing? Really? It will get coverage and put the Glazers etc under pressure and in the spotlight. Lisbon fans turned on their players 4 years ago, sorted things out and won their first league for ages.
 
It'll simply never get to that point. People just don't care enough to damage the team long term.

Look at the melt downs when we lose just 1 game, or can't complete a transfer for FDJ.

You think fans will want that over the next 5 years?
 
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