Dream job for every manager. With those two bashing every manager from day one.I'm sure it is only down to jealousy. I mean, Uli Hoeneß and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge are so genuinely wonderful characters, the only reason anybody could ever dislike them is because of envy
Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
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Rummenigge would never do that. I mean, he is a firm believer in the dignity of men after all! Hoeneß and Tuchel are a different story, though. I can only imagine how hard it has to be for Hoeneß to endure a vegetarian as a coach who probably doesn't even put sugar into his coffee.
As i said once regarding this topic; for me it was absolutely mind blowing how they took Pep's side (former manager) against Kovac (current manager) when those two had some public fight. Club hierachy which trash own managers in public.......is something else.
Don't remember that, what happened?
Success always looks like arrogance to the weaker onesI'm sure it is only down to jealousy. I mean, Uli Hoeneß and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge are so genuinely wonderful characters, the only reason anybody could ever dislike them is because of envy
It was something about Sane. Then they forced Kovac to apologise to Pep.
I know you're being a bit of a WUM here, but regardless of individual club personalities and their idiotic statements and behaviour, you will of course always find many people who are against the most successful club. In its heyday, United was probably the most unpopular (and at the same time the most popular) club in England.I'm sure it is only down to jealousy. I mean, Uli Hoeneß and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge are so genuinely wonderful characters, the only reason anybody could ever dislike them is because of envy
It wasn't particularly mindblowing. Kovac confidently talked about getting Sané and the club stated that they didn't like it which makes perfect sense when the deal isn't done and you will have to get around the table with the selling club. I'm more surprised by Kovac's comments than anyone else.
Definitely. However, Bayern offered more than enough to hate about them throughout the years
Maybe it gets better now that you have more likeable people like Eberl running the club but with Hoeneß and Rummenigge leading the club it was literally impossible to root for you. Among the biggest hypocrites the sport has seen. I mean, I've probably already forgot 90% of the disrespectful stuff they said about other clubs and yet I can immediately think of a dozen situations in which they were utter bellends. That's such a no go, Hoeneß would never ever talk about the players of other clubs. Unless it's a Bundesliga club, as everybody knows they have no rights to complain. Same goes for Tottenham. And ex-players are also fine, especially when they've been shit and almost singlehandedly cost Bayern the Champions League.
I have laughed at the idea that Bayern is a model to follow, their executives are lunatics and they deserve the FC Hollywood nickname, but in this particular case even if you believe that they are hypocritical. Kovac is the one that was wrong and there was nothing surprising when it comes to Bayern's reaction not for moral reasons(it would also be wrong but we are talking about Bayern) but for business reasons.
I like Bayern as a club, but there can be no doubt that they are a main cause of the bundesliga's poor brand value.
The last time they had a serious competitor, they effectively dismantled the side and have since gone on an 11 year run of title wins.
Before that, they did it to Leverkusen with Ballack, Że Roberto and Lucio.
Now they stand to finish second for once in over a decade and the first course of action is to try and get their rival's manager who bested them. While the season is still ongoing at that, utterly disrespectful to the league campaign unfolding.
The last time they had a serious competitor, they effectively dismantled the side and have since gone on an 11 year run of title wins.
Before that, they did it to Leverkusen with Ballack, Że Roberto and Lucio.
Now they stand to finish second for once in over a decade and the first course of action is to try and get their rival's manager who bested them. While the season is still ongoing at that, utterly disrespectful to the league campaign unfolding.
Nothing about poaching the manager from your closest rival, that promptly dropped in league standing the next season?
Yes, it was definitely correct to apologize in this instance but it generally highlights the hypocrisy of the people in charge there since Bayern and Hoeneß in particular loves to talk about players of other clubs and has done so before and after. I mean, in 2011 Heynckes joined Bayern after two years with us, and in one of his first interviews for them he said "One thing is clear: The player wants to join us. If he doesn't come this year, then he'll come next year. He is a free agent then so I think Leverkusen should give in." There are so, so many occasions in which they were outraged when they were on the receiving end but saw nothing wrong with their behaviour when they did the exact same thing. Makes my blood boil
That's show business, baby.
It is not important was Kovac right or wrong (btw, i also think that he was wrong). But, at least in public, you must defend your manager no matter what. When bosses treat manager in public like some poor schmuck that undermines manager's authority among players.
No argument from me about Hoeneß or Rummenigge who are, indeed, massive bellends.Definitely. However, Bayern offered more than enough to hate about them throughout the years
Most clubs have them (Völler, Callmund, Carro...) but the spotlight on those two highlights and amplifies them. I wish they'd should up.
There are countless other leagues that have way more parity than the Bundesliga. I'm not going to say no-one gives a feck about them because that isn't true, but there simply isn't a correlation between league parity/competitiveness and external interest.
City have won the PL 5 times in the last 6 years (that may turn to 6 in the last 7). United won 8 of 11 after Sky invented football in 1992, that coincided with rise in foreign interest in the PL. Meanwhile, look at Serie A. Interesting from top to bottom. Inter, Napoli, Milan and Juventus have won the league in recent years. Is the league popular?
Given all of that, I don't understand why Bayern should voluntarily neuter themselves relative to their domestic rivals for a premise that isn't based in fact. Also, why are their domestic rivals so useless in holding onto talent (coaches and players)?
Anyway, this rhetoric about Bayern "ruining the league" is partly driven by fans of PL clubs who are upset that Bayern, not their clubs, are where talent in the Bundesliga gravitates towards.
City have won the PL 5 times in the last 6 years (that may turn to 6 in the last 7). United won 8 of 11 after Sky invented football in 1992, that coincided with rise in foreign interest in the PL. Meanwhile, look at Serie A. Interesting from top to bottom. Inter, Napoli, Milan and Juventus have won the league in recent years. Is the league popular?
Given all of that, I don't understand why Bayern should voluntarily neuter themselves relative to their domestic rivals for a premise that isn't based in fact. Also, why are their domestic rivals so useless in holding onto talent (coaches and players)?
Anyway, this rhetoric about Bayern "ruining the league" is partly driven by fans of PL clubs who are upset that Bayern, not their clubs, are where talent in the Bundesliga gravitates towards.
I think there is a difference between a very competitive league in which the title races go into the very last rounds between teams that are roughly on par, both in terms of quality as well as spending power, and a league in which a team wins the league 11 times in a row, most of them being more or less uncontested. I mean, just think about it from the perspective of a marketer: Advertising the match between Bayern and Dortmund between 2010 and 2012 or after Bayern signed Lewandowski, Götze and Hummels?
Regarding Serie A vs. Bundesliga, here are the Google Trends graphs for worldwide search volumes from 2004 until today:
Serie A began to outperform the Bundesliga clearly from 2020 (Juve's last title) onwards and the bundesliga only came somewhat close when Dortmund almost won the title in May 2023.
100% truth. Every single word of it
That also coincides with things like Atalanta's surprising run while playing amazing football. Good football and/or Superstars in a league drives interest, I stand by that.I think there is a difference between a very competitive league in which the title races go into the very last rounds between teams that are roughly on par, both in terms of quality as well as spending power, and a league in which a team wins the league 11 times in a row, most of them being more or less uncontested. I mean, just think about it from the perspective of a marketer: Advertising the match between Bayern and Dortmund between 2010 and 2012 or after Bayern signed Lewandowski, Götze and Hummels?
Regarding Serie A vs. Bundesliga, here are the Google Trends graphs for worldwide search volumes from 2004 until today:
Serie A began to outperform the Bundesliga clearly from 2020 (Juve's last title) onwards and the bundesliga only came somewhat close when Dortmund almost won the title in May 2023.
What I can deduce from this graphI think there is a difference between a very competitive league in which the title races go into the very last rounds between teams that are roughly on par, both in terms of quality as well as spending power, and a league in which a team wins the league 11 times in a row, most of them being more or less uncontested. I mean, just think about it from the perspective of a marketer: Advertising the match between Bayern and Dortmund between 2010 and 2012 or after Bayern signed Lewandowski, Götze and Hummels?
Regarding Serie A vs. Bundesliga, here are the Google Trends graphs for worldwide search volumes from 2004 until today:
Serie A began to outperform the Bundesliga clearly from 2020 (Juve's last title) onwards and the bundesliga only came somewhat close when Dortmund almost won the title in May 2023.
1. Dortmund winning 2 titles under Klopp brought no increased interest. Didnt make a difference nor did Wolfsburg Stuttgart Bremen wins
2. Both leagues were neck to neck until around 2018. You know what happened in 2018? There was no league winner change in either league Juve was on their 7th title and Bayern on their 5th. A global icon Ronaldo joined the league and thus naturally more people were interested in the league Ronaldo played in. I bet if Bayern brings in Messi we will see a massive change in numbers
I will do this for Bundesliga vs Ligue 1 in the past 5yrs
If you notice Bundesliga vs Ligue1, Bundesliga was comfortable ahead UNTIL July 2021 when Messi joined and Ligue 1 caught up. after Messi left in Summer 2023, Bundesliga took the lead again
I am unable to embed image but you can check in this link for Bundesliga vs French league
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=/m/037169,/m/044hxl
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Isn't that on their pathetic rivals rolling over then? Why did Leverkusen sell all three to Bayern and why did Dortmund let Lewandowski's contract go into the final year? Bayern are bullies, but their rivals should grow a spine.
They actually did by telling Lewandowski that they wouldn't sell him to Bayern but demanded him to fulfill his contract. That's why he left on a free but a year after he afreed to join Bayern.
That's a very interesting way of interpretating that graph
The interest in the Bundesliga peaked in 2010 to 2012 and then dropped in 2013 again. The Serie A really outpaced the Bundesliga after 2020 which is the year Juve won their last league title and the only time the Bundesliga got close again was May 2023 when Dortmund almost won in a narrow final match day.
That bringing in international superstars increases the attention is beyond doubt but I don't really get why you keep bringing this up. I'm arguing that Bayern should focus on that instead of pursuing players of domestic rivals. Besides, Ligue 1 signed three of the five most popular players in the world and was still behind the Bundesliga. Superstars are the cherry on the cake of a competitive league.
Well you are assuming that competitiveness is immediately related to external interest but I don't think that is true. It takes time. Serie A had the same champion for 9 years.
Tired of the constant whining here. Oh terrible Bayern bought half of Leverkusen's winning team..... Hmm I don't remember they win anything though.
Oh Bayern destroyed there rivals Dortmund by poaching Götze, Lewandowski ans Hummels.
Götze had a release clause. Is it Bayern's fault Dortmund included one in his contract?
Hummels comes from the Bayern youth team and weren't the idiot Klinsmann the coach back then, Dortmund would never have gotten him.
Lately, Bayern didn't buy any Dortmund players but rather the opposite happened. Of course nobody complains that Dortmund Süle on a free.
It has been United, City and Real who poached their players. Thus for Dortmund actually nothing changed. They are still a selling club.
Oh Bayern destroyed there rivals Dortmund by poaching Götze, Lewandowski ans Hummels.
Götze had a release clause. Is it Bayern's fault Dortmund included one in his contract?
Hummels comes from the Bayern youth team and weren't the idiot Klinsmann the coach back then, Dortmund would never have gotten him.
Lately, Bayern didn't buy any Dortmund players but rather the opposite happened. Of course nobody complains that Dortmund Süle on a free.
It has been United, City and Real who poached their players. Thus for Dortmund actually nothing changed. They are still a selling club.
I think it's telling when you have to use that kind of rhetoric
Bayern are obviously free to do whatever they want but it is hypocritical to complain about the disappointing international revenues of the Bundesliga as long as they keep trying to dismantle every team that poses a real challenge for them, ruining the brand of the league they want to market internationally in the process.
Luckily for the league, Bayern gets increasingly regularly outbid for the best talents of these clubs. It doesn't has to be that way but a weak Bayern means the league profits. And that's by Bayern's own choice.
The broader issue with 'competitiveness' is that, to the non-local fan, Bundesliga doesn't seem to have 'strong' clubs other than Bayern. You can say the PL, La Liga, Serie A are/were uncompetitive. But those leagues are able to produce 'strong' clubs (other than the perennial league champions) that win titles (especially internationally), which gives them a better reputation and the chance to get followers. I'm guessing that's how many people get into a league: by following a club, rather than the league as a whole.
Kinda. I dunno.
Are we still counting Juve as champions for the years they got their titles stipped?
For this argument (the competitiveness of the league), I think we should still count their titles.
Wow. Now Bayern is also responsible for the disappointing international revenues? I'm living in South East Asia for the last 25 years. If it weren't for Bayern nobody without even care about Bundesliga here.
Maybe the ultras and other conservative groups should finally acknowledge football in 2024 isn't the same as 30 or 40 years ago. Vetoing any changes and refusing any investors while the rest of the world is accepting or even embracing them will only miniscule the Bundesliga further. Protests like they happened lately will drive away investors from Bundesliga and they will just invest their money in other leagues. Soon it's not only the EPL but also la Liga and Seria A which will be far ahead of us when it comes to TV revenue.
I'm sure you are also a staunch supporter of the "Gesamtschule" concept. Just weaken the strong so the weak don't look weak anymore. Except in the CL and Europe league it will be a disaster.
That's @Zehner's theory, which I challenged.
And you need to bring proof for your theory of there being a lag. I'm too lazy to dust off my econometrics textbook but 5 years ago I would offer to test the hypothesis
I just love it how defensive Bayern fans get. What I love even more though is when bundesliga fans defend Bayern.
You'd never see rival fans in the EPL defending another club would you.
Never change bundesliga fans, I love you
You'd never see rival fans in the EPL defending another club would you.
Never change bundesliga fans, I love you
Bavarian elitism at its best. I bet you are a staunch supporter of separating young children and cementing their path of life at the first possibility.
Edit: feck it, I misused an idiom at first. I hope it makes sense now.
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How was his football at Chelsea? Didn’t really pay much attention as I thought he’d never realistically be an option for our manager position.
This
Btw increased interest so far isn't translating into increased revenue for Serie A
It's never a good sign when you have to use whataboutism in a discussion
Yes, Bayern is reponsible. Brand is one of the most important aspects when it comes to marketing and there is no denying that Bayern's transfer activities in the past have severely hurt the Bundesliga brand.
What kind of rant is that
The comparison makes no sense at all since I am not demanding that Bayern weakens itself but that they should stop targetting players and club officials of their direct rivals everytime somebody manages to challenge them.Can we perhaps stop the pretentious behaviour here and concentrate on the topic of the thread? I'm sure there are plenty of other threads where you can have a good cry about the evil FC Bayern.
I'm sorry, I didn't want to keep you from talking Tuchel. Please share with us whatever you wanted to discuss about him