Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
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They finished second, I doubt any of their fans think it was in their top 10 best seasons ever, let alone second best.
That’s like claiming Mourinho’s 84 point season was better than a few of Fergie title wins
I think it was in some ways the best and in general the second best league season the club played.
Beyond parody now.
He did to be fair, actually managed less points per game than Poch, both managers made a right feck up of that season. Poch in his only full season though did win it with ease.
Was it a better league season than 2002, 2011 or 2012?
So did Tuchel. It’s stupid and honestly just boring troll behaviour to keep saying Tuchel lost the title that season.
2012 depends on how you look at it, but most people will probably call that one better. But I think it was comfortably better than 2002 or 2011.
Kin ell, soon we’ll have Liverpool fans on here claiming 2022 was better than their league wins
Kin ell, soon we’ll have Liverpool fans on here claiming 2022 was better than their league wins
I know some people are a bit challenged when it comes to numbers so large, they can't count them on their fingers, but 78 is indeed quite a bit more than 70.
A league win is worth much more, Mourinho’s 84 points season certainly wasn’t better than multiple Fergie titles with less points.
For a fan of a side with only 8 league titles in their history, I’m amazed you’d claim a second placed season was better than two of those.
I wonder if some Arsenal fans will be on here soon claiming this a better league season than 1998?
So higher points total + not the winning the title > lower points total + winning the title?
It means you were better but had an even better opponent. Not really a complex concept.
Depends on the context of the question. If it's about fan happiness then a title win with 40 points is better than a second place with 80 points. But the context here was coaching performance and Tuchel, in that season, absolutely delivered a title worthy performance. It was just bad luck for him that he was up a against peak Guardiola instead of an imploding Bayern or a choking Leverkusen. How is this so hard to grasp?
Maybe he’d have had a worse season if Bayern weren’t so good, we simply don’t know, hell Pep’s City started this season much slower but that in itself eventually brought pressure on Arsenal that they couldn’t handle.
It’s certainly not the simple concept you are pretending it is.
You literally just qualified your comment with context and an explanation and then end it with 'how is this so hard to grasp?'. If you don't like engaging in back and forth and explaining yourself as necessary why are you on a forum? The stick up your arse vibe is not it.
But it is as simple as "Kin ell, soon we’ll have Liverpool fans on here claiming 2022 was better than their league wins
", right?There's also the matter of having watched the football. Which - I know by now - isn't a requirement to formulate strong opinions on this forum.
I just repeated the context that was established earlier on this page. If you don't like to read more than two posts why are you on a forum?
No it doesn't. Not always. Fergie would often rest players and rotate once the title was sewn up which would result in dropped points. It's not a particularly complex concept, but it's one that you've not entirely got your head around.
Christ the Bunde boys are a humourless lot.
It also completely ignores how teams (like Arsenal) often buckle under the pressure of becoming a favourite and can far outperform themselves with pressure off.
There’s a good chance Pep’s Bayern being so dominant made the season a pressure free one for Dortmund that it actually had a positive influence on their season.
Fact is, they finished second, yet have won the league 8 times, so anyone claiming it their second best league season is just playing silly buggars.
If you think that comment was a literal repeat of what you already posted I'd be concerned, far beyond wasting your time on a forum being a grump.
Yep. It's why attempting to compare points totals across years and generations is just obviously stupid.
I neither said "literal" or "repeat", you're just inventing stuff at this point. The entry to this discussion was "but if you wanna be a top league side, he aint your man.", questioning (or rather denying) Tuchel's ability to perform in a league setting.
And his league record says he aint your man.
He may be your man if you wanna finish a valiant second mind.
Well, it is a simple fact that in some seasons he delivered excellent league performances, with different teams.
He didn't as regularly as for example Pep, I'm not going so far to claim that he is on par with the consistency he shows, but claiming that Tuchel is just a cup manager just isn't true.
I think you know what I meant. But if you two rocket scientists think that you don't have to watch any football, you don't have to look for nuance, all you have to do is look up the eventual winner and you know the entire story, then I'll leave you to it.
Good lord. You tried to say I was inventing things and when shown that I wasn't, you continue to double down with your snarky tone. Best leave it there.
Pretty much irrelevant in the discussed context
Nar, the best example so far is a second place finish with Dortmund with the pressure completely off as Pep absolutely spanked the league.
The following season, he was bumped into third place by Ralph fecking Hasenhüttl.
At PSG he was half at fault for losing a one horse race.
At Chelsea he failed miserably in the league (managing only a points haul even Ole has matched) and absolutely is at least part at fault for their shit season.
At Dortmund, PSG and Chelsea, it’s been a consistent theme that every season he gets worse in the league with his club and eventually departs ways.
So how that equates to him being a top league manager I’ll never know.
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Guess Bayern didn't get the memo about what ever crazy stuff in Tuchel’s personal life, lost him our dressing room and got him fired.
He did win games against Everton, Leicester and West Ham (just) with us, kept us up...
He'll probably get fired again if Bayern don't win the league ? He's a very good manager going through bad shit in his personal life. In a year or two will be back to being a top manager most probably.
He did win games against Everton, Leicester and West Ham (just) with us, kept us up...
He'll probably get fired again if Bayern don't win the league ? He's a very good manager going through bad shit in his personal life. In a year or two will be back to being a top manager most probably.
Tuchel spanked the league in similar fashion with a much worse squad. And I guess PSG fans will still see him as the best manager they had since the takeover. The club is a very difficult environment for a coach - see Pocchetino.
I don't know where this motivation to belittle Tuchel is coming from but to me, he is one of the best managers in the world and I very much hope the terrible decisions at Bayern make it impossible for him to work his magic. Don't have much hope for an exciting league if Bayern get their shit together with Tuchel in charge. It would have been for his best to wait until the end of the season before taking over the team. Luckily he didn't.
He’s a good coach, a top cup manager.
He’s not the man if you wanna be a top league side. I mean, one second placed season with Dortmund before finishing third behind Ralph fecking Hasenhüttl certainly doesn’t dispel that.
Oh, and certainly nor does winning a one horse race with a squad the wage the size of the rest of Ligue 1 put together before ultimately half being responsible for them losing said one horse league.
Show me a good club in a good league where his league performances have been consistent and haven’t gotten considerably worse season on season.
No amount of complaining is gonna make a man with only 2 league titles in a one horse league where he also lost one look a top league manager.
Isn't Laurent Blanc generally regarded as being the most successful manager PSG have had (post takeover)?
I actually find it rather amusing that the Bundesliga defence league are in here, trying to pretend that a second place finish makes him a top league manager.
I guess that makes Ole one too right?
Or certainly Raneiri?
Funnier still is them conveniently ignoring him finishing third behind Hasenhüttl the following season, just two points above Hoffenheim.
If those two Dortmund seasons prove him a top league manager I don’t know what to say.
Considering how many people bring it up with Poch (indeed it was someone doing that that that Amadaeus was responding to), it's not really. Poch did better than Tuchel that season, and if you take his points per game over the season he would have won the title. Tuchel was obviously at least as much to blame as Poch for not winning the league, and in reality was more at fault (especially considering it was his team that he'd had a preseason with whereas Poch came in to take over someone else's team). If you extrapolate the points they each won over an entire season Poch would actually have finished 7 points ahead of Tuchel that season - 85 vs 78.
I know Amadaeus makes himself a bit of a mockery at times with his defending of Poch, but equally there's no doubt that others go overboard with their criticism.
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I'd bet money on his agent having installed a no sack clause for this summer.
It's known that he's very demanding in matters both on and off the pitch, and that it takes time for his systematic approach to grip. It's also accepted widely that Bayern bosses felt the title's in the bag when they fired Nagelsmann, so the conclusion sort of draws itself - he was installed to start the preseason campaign as soon as it was seen too unlikely they'd bottle the job this season. He'd have been foolish to not include such a clause, when hired with eyes already on 23/24.
It's known that he's very demanding in matters both on and off the pitch, and that it takes time for his systematic approach to grip. It's also accepted widely that Bayern bosses felt the title's in the bag when they fired Nagelsmann, so the conclusion sort of draws itself - he was installed to start the preseason campaign as soon as it was seen too unlikely they'd bottle the job this season. He'd have been foolish to not include such a clause, when hired with eyes already on 23/24.
I'm pretty sure that's not a thing.
And you may very well be right of course, but how comes you doubt what must look quite reasonable?
He’s always absolved Poch of that season and laid the blame squarely on Tuchel. This isn’t something new. It’s obvious troll behaviour.
A "can't be sacked" clause in an employees contract does not seem at a possible for any employee to have, let alone reasonable to be agreed by a club who has had 9 managers in the past 10 years.
While true, there are certainly workarounds to the same effect (so technically no such clause, fine by me), closest perhaps being a contract for this and a pre-contract for (at least) next season, to be withdrawn from only against a somewhat hefty fee. I doubt his management didn't go for some assurance, given how his last three jobs had all ended in close to reputation damaging ways, and that there looked to be no overwhelming reason to sack Nagelsmann. Best I come up with is Bayern eyeing for the next campaign. But ok, I'd loose my money with the bet
