If Boehly tried to stop the sale of Gilmour, why did it happen ?
Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
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I had the impression for the whole transfer window (Chelsea fans and media) that Tuchel makes the decision on the players and Boehy fully supports the manager. Contrarily it seems Tuchel is not valued by Boehy. Even Roman was not trigger happy this early in the season. It would be interesting to hear from Chelsea, the reasons for sacking in the coming days.
Because unlike Broja, Gilmour wanted it. He wants to play, and Brighton was a very good option for him.
He knew Tuchel would t play him. Ironically he wanted to play for …. Uh oh.
I know it’s a loooomg read, but read the above post. They did try to back him. They did value him. But he didn’t want to be a part of what they envisioned. They didn’t want him enough to toss their plan for the club, the academy, everything really, out the window.
And I’ve been nice here. There were bits about his erratic temper and relationships with players and people at the club by mid Summer… stuff similar to what we’ve heard about at ALL his other stops, but I didn’t include those.
Tuchel is like the Pochettino’s, Conte’s, Sarri’s, and Mourinho’s (modern era) of the world. They’re all above-average managers that I would never, ever want my club to hire unless we were in the midst of a classic ‘Wow we have the talent, we just can’t put it together and we need to bring someone fresh in NOW’ season. None of them will bring long-term success, they will wear out their welcome, they don’t play an exciting brand of football, and they lack the ability to work in a modern footballing system to sustain success.
Football isn’t what it was when Ferguson managed. You need to have cutting-edge analytics, deep scouting networks, a director of football, roadmaps for academy players to reach the first team, the ability to rebuild on the fly, and stunning squad depth to compete in 4 competitions at any given time, along with deep pockets. You need to be able to juggle all of these at once.
If you’re a tactically brilliant manager in 2022 who can’t appreciate those other elements of the job, you are not fit to manage a top EPL team. That’s why many of these managers flee to France or Italy, where you can get away with winning a Scudetto while also financially running a squad into the ground with no eye towards the future, or where you can count on financially overwhelming your opposition.
Does anyone here actually think Tuchel plays exciting football? That he can build a juggernaut on the level of City or Liverpool that can compete year in and year out? That he understands that he’s but one cog in the chelsea football machine and that to succeed he has to be willing to work with the other parts?
The performances on the pitch since that champions league victory tell you the answers to all of those questions.
Football isn’t what it was when Ferguson managed. You need to have cutting-edge analytics, deep scouting networks, a director of football, roadmaps for academy players to reach the first team, the ability to rebuild on the fly, and stunning squad depth to compete in 4 competitions at any given time, along with deep pockets. You need to be able to juggle all of these at once.
If you’re a tactically brilliant manager in 2022 who can’t appreciate those other elements of the job, you are not fit to manage a top EPL team. That’s why many of these managers flee to France or Italy, where you can get away with winning a Scudetto while also financially running a squad into the ground with no eye towards the future, or where you can count on financially overwhelming your opposition.
Does anyone here actually think Tuchel plays exciting football? That he can build a juggernaut on the level of City or Liverpool that can compete year in and year out? That he understands that he’s but one cog in the chelsea football machine and that to succeed he has to be willing to work with the other parts?
The performances on the pitch since that champions league victory tell you the answers to all of those questions.
Tuchel is a manager of details, so not sure quite what you are on about here?
The Italian league is full of tactical managers, managers who utilise every stat, analysis and minimal gain to get success. Embarrassing to say otherwise.
Tuchel has been sacked for a poor run of form stretching back from last season, this poor run of form still managed to get Chelsea top three and into a cup final, not too bad really. The sacking owed more to the upheaval behind the scenes then Tuchel himself.
Can you give some examples?
Forest Green Rovers
Is finishing 5th, with 0 trophies, after 3 years to mould the team to his shape, considered progress these days?
Greenest club in the world
Was perhaps just a bit early. If the stuff I've seen were official accounts (I think so), there's been an outpouring of Thank You messages from the squad, old and new guys.
Tommy Tuchel's Troublesome Tenure Terminated
Wait what?
I would of dreamed of having Tuchel or Conte at Utd last season and even before that. They had success everywhere they went.
Let's just leave the Ferguson comparison aside, time has passed, football has changed and we can't live only in the past.
Big teams like Bayern, Real or Barca change managers all the time and win trophies left and right.
Smaller teams like Chelsea as well!
But they don't win trophies in the centre which is a big downside of this approach.
I think there is a massive difference if you compare Real and Bayern and Chelsea before Boehly, to this Chelsea move now.
Before this there was a clear structure behind everything in Chelsea, much like Real and Bayern have a clear and strong structure. There is a clear philosophy that they get players after and managers. And when those managers dont fit anymore its no issue getting rid and getting a new one, because the structure and philosophy remains.
Chelsea now got rid of the structure and put much more on Tuchel and even had him be the main decider on transfers and THEN they fired him.
Yep this seems to be overlooked by many
This is different than the usual Chelsea sackings.
Suddenly there are 2 good managers out of a job, Tuchel and Poch, i would imagine there may be some itchy fingers hovering over the fire button at some big clubs.
Compared to freefall we went under Ole and Jose? Yes absolutely. Let's be honest here, Ole would still be here if he finished 4th last season even after finishing 2nd the season before. Arteta finished 5th after finishing 8th which can be seen as progression by the owners and the fans hence, he's still in the job. Arsenal last finished inside top 4 in 2015-16 and the team Arteta inherited was nowhere near the other top 4 teams so, the expectations for him were set based on that. The 5th place finish last season where they almost qualified for the CL was seen as a huge progress by their fanbase. Based on your logic Arteta should be let go for finishing 1 point behind 4th place because it has been 3 seasons and he's out of time?
We’ll, yes, but that’s because he didn’t actually DO the job after it was given to him. He asked for it, then refused to DO it. And even the little bit he did do left him frazzled and out of balance as a coach.
Ben Jacobs just confirmed, again, that Tuchel asked to have that extra power. He did not want to work under a DoF. But then his idea of getting involved with transfers was a thumbs up or thumbs down emoji;he tried to pawn off those responsibilities to assistants, or just ignore them altogether. He didn’t get involved in the transfers in even the way you saw Xavi.
He wanted to have no one telling him what to do, and power over decisions without doing any of the other work and communicating involved with that job. It destroyed the relationship with the owners, it affected his ability to coach, and hurt his relationship with a lot of the players.
This should be a “beware what you wish for” moment for Tuchel. If you are someone that JUST wants to coach? Great. But then you need to be willing to work with someone willing to actually do the other parts of the job like a Director.
I have a hard time believing that given we had several reports of Tuchel complaining about Cechs sacking. Isnt Ben jacobs chelseas mouthpiece?
Keep the timeline in mind. Cech and Granovskaia were gone very quickly, the described development likely happened when they were gone.
That he didn't want to work under a DoF selected by the new ownership might already have been the result of initial distrust? Like "before they make an idiot my new boss I'll do it myself"?
My issue with this whole narrative is that we never heard any issues between them while Abramovich was owner. All of these issues and Tuchel changing in attitude began after Boehly came in.
You are too fast, I updated my post
Yes I don't think he has an issue working under a competent DoF, it was actually what he publicly liked about the Chelsea setup. I think he just didn't trust the new ownership to get the right structure in place again, and if they started their relation like that and then clashed over players like Ronaldo, it could only result in a downward spiral.
Exactly. He was being rightly praised during the end of last season with how he’d become Chelsea’s spokesperson and led the club through a very rocky period.
It now seems some are happy to throw him under the bus and totally align themselves to Boehly.
Same team immediately came to my mind.
| First 50 games | Last 50 games | |
| 32 | Wins | 28 |
| 11 | Draws | 13 |
| 7 | Losses | 9 |
| 81 | Goals For | 87 |
| 24 | Goals Against | 53 |
| 31 | Clean Sheets | 18 |
You can see the negative trend in his last 50 games
He'd be good in stable environments as long as he's got no recruiting duties and feels the backing of the board. Chelsea after Roman, Marina, Peter Cech, etc left the ship was always going to be a struggle
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Yes, and everyone who dreamed of having Tuchel or Conte should be ashamed. They have no idea how to build a squad. You think they would have pushed for Malacia or Antony? Does anyone actually think United would have a better record now under either of them rather than ETH?
Fans will literally sit and cycle through the same hang average managers rather than try something new.
Building a squad isn't what you hire them for, coaching a squad is.
But yes, anyone who wanted them before first signing a truly competent DoF doesn't understand their value and abilities.
Right and wrong.
Tuchel was sacked because he was unable to properly cooperate with the new front office, because they wanted him to explain certain transfer decisions and he didn’t believe that to be necessary, because he pushed for record signings that were laughable, and because he wasn’t putting incredibly valuable players in a position to succeed, and the loss was just a convenient time to part ways.
I’m not sure about you, but if my manager is in his third season and we’re celebrating missing first and second place by 20+ points, then there’s a problem. Can you honestly sit here and say Chelsea was ever going to challenge City for a title?
No they weren't, but then only one team has challenged City for the title on the last 5 years, so a modicum of realism has to be at play here.
I'm not debating that Tuchel should have been doing better, his last 25 games haven't been great, but should that lead to the manager being sacked when they are still highly competitive with domestic trophies a real achievable aim?
There seems to be a lot more behind the scenes than what has really come to light.
I'm fully behind a manager who after two seasons at the helm claims he knows more than an owner who has never been involved in premiership football before.
I mean with Boehly being appointed interim DOF and supposedly Boehly favoring a revolutionary 4-4-3 system, I'm surprised Tuchel lasted that long
That’s because we know our onions
Hoping to get anyone better than tuchel by many chelsea fans they will get a big slap.
Potter ffs. No experience to manage teams in Europe . Not managed bigger squad before.
Todd think he is messiah.Brighton always got space to attack. Teams like them thrived as underdogs and opponents always try to get front foot against them. Todd made a biggest mistake by sacking tuchel.
I think we will finish around 7-10 th. Good bye Europe.
Potter ffs. No experience to manage teams in Europe . Not managed bigger squad before.
Todd think he is messiah.Brighton always got space to attack. Teams like them thrived as underdogs and opponents always try to get front foot against them. Todd made a biggest mistake by sacking tuchel.
I think we will finish around 7-10 th. Good bye Europe.
Your way of understanding football is odd.
I personally would of chosen Tuchel or Conte over Ole or Rangnick any day of the week. I can't project what would any of them would have done at Utd but I can assume that it would have been a better job. Conte and Tuchel won trophies in major leagues RECENTLY if that is average than yeah right.
It's difficult to judge ETH at this point as it is too soon and what ETH did until now with the results he got and players he bought is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Much more football has to be played in order to properly asses his work.
Please explain what is something new in terms of management.
I think they fell out when the owner wanted to force Ronaldo into the squad
Even I’ll admit that the level of toxicity to ruin a team you didn’t actually sign for is impressive.
Indeed we do, my friend. Indeed we do.