Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
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Tuchel is fecked at big clubs imo. He should stick to mid tier clubs that have less volatile owners, since he himself is a volatile manager.
Tuchel a decent manager who won the champions league for them despite not having the best team.
Deserved better.
Deserved better.
god don’t remind me of fecking Therrien
To be fair, he has been a good head coach but that makes things even more challenging for fans when things go wrong. A bit like having to deal with Mourinho.
What makes you say that?
Yep, especially when they were about to go bust and there was hype we wanted him. Said he would drive a 7 seater across Europe If he had to.
Wouldn't have complained at all if we'd made a move for Tuchel during the clubs forced sale earlier this year, but he looked untouchable at the time, and it seemed impossible even if we wanted it to happen.
Funny how these things work out, and also funny how these sort of managers are never free agents when we need one ourselves.
Funny how these things work out, and also funny how these sort of managers are never free agents when we need one ourselves.
Will the Seagulls follow the Tuchel next?
A Brighton managers survives quite easily with a 30% win rate in the premier league. A Chelsea manager won't ever.
It wasn't that long ago people suggesting we go for Tuchel were laughed out of court for it being impossible.
How things change.
New owners nearly always want their own man in the job, and Tuchel was acting like a man who wanted out.
He was playing his best attacker at CB and also insisted on playing Mount out of position.
He’s a really good coach but it had run it’s course.
I don't know about that, but he's definitely in danger of acquiring a reputation as the sort of manager who'll inevitably fall out with the owners. That tends to cost you, at least with the biggest clubs.
Thomas Tuchel’s odd, briefly brilliant reign ends in familiar Chelsea sacking | Chelsea | The Guardian
Barney Ronay.
This feels like home, safety, a club coming back to what they know. Nature is healing itself.
Barney Ronay.
This feels like home, safety, a club coming back to what they know. Nature is healing itself.Well, I do think they are worse off than you can read out of the table alone. Arguably, they have dropped more bad points than any other team. Fell flat in the first CL game, looked awful in the pre-season and didn't finish last season well either. It's looked on the downturn for a while.
But apparently the main thing is his relationship with Boehly broke down. Over lots of things besides coaching, with all the outgoings on the management side this summer it seems Boehly has been relying heavily on him for things that would normally have been handled by Granovskaia, Buck, Cech etc.
I'm hoping they'll give Potter a chance. It'd be so interesting to see what he can do with a big 6 club.
Love reading him, great piece as always and chuckled at:Thomas Tuchel’s odd, briefly brilliant reign ends in familiar Chelsea sacking | Chelsea | The Guardian
Barney Ronay.
I like Tuchel. Great manager with a sense of humour as well which was fun to watch in his interviews.
Shame really because he was the only thing I liked about Chelsea. I hope they get screwed over.
Shame really because he was the only thing I liked about Chelsea. I hope they get screwed over.
Agree, he was outstanding after coming in and getting more from his team when taking over from Lampard. Mount was outstanding over the first 18 months of Tuchel’s tenure. So why hasn’t he been able to sustain performance levels? He’s demanding for everyone around him. Is it 100% the failure of Lukaku and Werner that they didn’t perform up to expectations? That’s 150m of cheddar that are dead assets… We don’t know the whole story, we just know that both Dortmund and PSG fired Tuchel due to difficult relationships with ownership. Now another?
why is it that both Klopp, Ancelotti and Guardiola can be so demanding yet maintain a calm, positive dressing room, yet Conte and Tuchel have well documented issues with management and players?
Fair enough lads. I hadn't been paying enough attention. I reckon that could be a bit of a poisoned chalice for Potter. He's got a good setup at Brighton and deserves a move up but if he's going to be expected to be relied on heavily by a clueless owner as @justsomebloke is suggesting it might not be the best move.
To me yeah. Chelsea's recruitment has been poor for a while now, Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, Lukaku none of them are of the level that allows you to challenge for a title and I don't think the signings made this summer elevate them either. I've just gone back to 2016 and the amount of shite Chelsea have bought since then with only around 5 players who can be considered a success for more than just the odd season
Sad to see him gone. Hope the club did this after serious thinking of all possibilities. It's only five days after the transfer window closed.
Look like proper mugs. I am really felt betrayed by this club. Should never invest any emotional attachment to any manager this club appoints.
Look like proper mugs. I am really felt betrayed by this club. Should never invest any emotional attachment to any manager this club appoints.
So busy with work barely had time to check the phone, saw a notification about Tuchel's last game and thought "clickbait nonsense", and then I checked this thread....
Well if they think Potter's football is more suited to Ronaldo they are in for a surprise.
Boehly clearly knows feck all about football.
He seems to go mental whenever it comes to transfers. Fell out with everyone at Dortmund because he wanted Oliver Torres. Bit harder to judge at PSG, but at Chelsea there was Lukaku last summer and this summer he looked like he wanted to do himself (or someone else in).
You don't say
Fecking hell. Gutter journalism is alive and kicking.
It seems more than likely the actual truth. It perfectly explains why Ronaldo announced he wants to leave. Chelsea’s new owner seems a pure businessman who seeks profit more than anything else. This purchase is just another investment in sports for him to make profits maximized.
As opposed to, what exactly? Unless you want Oil money, what exactly should an owner want to do? You think if we got British ownership, the owner wouldn’t want to maximize profits? Sure they might be more in tune with the needs of the club from a sporting perspective but make no mistake, the bottom line is the same for any reasonable owner not backed by state money.
There are many owners treating their football clubs as part of communities, societies, philanthropy, etc.
I’m more into shades of gray on this one. Was it 100% their fault? No, I think the manager needs to make adjustments to fit his talent to some extent. They certainly didn’t help themselves, but tactics should reflect the squad’s strengths and weaknesses.
Agree with Ziyech… no end product. But generally, Chelsea have bought pretty well. Havertz is class, but they are playing him in the wrong position, James, Chilwell, Koulibaly, Silva, Kante, Jorginho… They’ve won the most trophies of any English team since Abramovich took over and had a very efficient acquisitions team, both at youth and senior levels.
Regarding Tuchel’s sacking…. You can only piss your boss off so many times before they say it’s not worth it. The minute results falter, they think, “why put up with this clown”? That’s in every industry by the way. Tuchel has been known to be very difficult to work with, enough so that everyone he’s worked for has mentioned it openly.
Boehly is tied in with Clear Lake Capital, a private equity firm. They have limited partners that sign over a wad of cash for these guys to manage. They have 72 billion under management. Their limited partners just want profit.
I assumed with the coloring you wanted me to fill in the answers. What a day to have a post limit.
You keep saying this, could you please quote the Chelsea fans that wanted him gone?
I think it the sense of general progression and how his team seems to be getting better every season. It was the other way around with Ole and Jose.
Actually find that fans of every other club kept saying he will/should get fired and now that it’s actually happened they put on fake empathy for Tuchel. It’s totally ludicrous. You can actually include those fools on the Chelsea forum too for the same thing.
I’ve never had a bad word to say about Tuchel, loved the guy. But no one can argue that after 7 months of inept displays and a badly planned preseason that it’s a shock that he lost his job. The timing is the only unusual part about it.
I respect Tuchel and even after the game on Tuesday I said he is lucky Roman was not the owner because our players just standing giving little effort would have had him sacked by Roman. There is a large difference between that and wanting him sacked. I can understand it after the terrible play at the end of the season, throwing the players under the bus during the summer, and then the start of the season. I really didn’t see Boehly doing it so quickly. I was surprised for sure. When he made the statement that the club was not performing because he has the same players… it was a turning point… the same players that won the UCL for him. I did think he would have more time to turn it around, but I understand why it was done.
*Raises hand*
Not so much that I wanted him gone, but more that I thought he should and would go.
There are a variety of reasons, which I’ve explained in other threads, but the fact is he didn’t align with what they want, and he wasn’t their hire. That matters. It just does. But it matters more so when there are serious philosophical reasons involved.
Imagine if I told you the next coach wouldn’t have a position in how he lined up for Reece James? Most of you would go ballistic. Well, I think they feel the same way about Mount.
Tuchel wanted to go in a direction Mount doesn’t fit in. If you play him in a position he can play and fails that is one thing, but moving to a double 6 setup meant he had to play as one of the forward attackers. It didn’t work. They played him as one of the 6’s … that didn’t work. He would be ok with Kante back. Kante hid the flaws of playing Jorgihno AND Mount in Tuchels system. But unless there’s a major breakthrough in negotiations over salary, Kante might not be back after his latest injury once the Winter window hits.
Im not here to argue whether Mount is worthy of this type of consideration, but it is definitely at least one factor. Things started to build up steam as soon as Mounts contract negotiations started.
We needed a different player in midfield. I’m sure Clearlake were told Gilmour could be that guy when Kante wasn’t available. Tuchel tells them we are set in midfield. Then he says right at the end of the window that he’s essentially not going to play Gilmour (after he was given a squad number), and sanctioned his sale. We saw on Football Therapy, Chelsea Tv, and other sites deadline day reports of how mad Boehly was, and that he was trying to block the sale, both at least an hour before the “shock” sale was announced. Unless Tuchel was willing to play Zakaria, or let Chalobah occupy the middle and take up positions in the midfield, Mount was looking at consignment to sub at least until Kante returned.
There are a lot of other issues, but that certainly seems like a major one.
I don’t think they wanted to have an incumbent manager forced on them to begin with. But one you have communication and trust issues with?
Managers tend not to last long under a new board. I'm kind of glad he isn't hanging around while things go south and bitchy.
Chelsea fans will remember him fondly, opposition fans will be glad hes gone and the manager leaves with a shitload of money and an improved reputation.
Chelsea fans will remember him fondly, opposition fans will be glad hes gone and the manager leaves with a shitload of money and an improved reputation.
Im not sure he leaves with a better reputation for Major clubs. He had a history and reputation that he falls out hard with the boards, which is pretty obvious happened here also. To us fans he absolutley leaves with a great reputation, we love him. For any major clubs though, that red flag is there and even more glaring now. To be sacked so quickly after being backed so hard, something major broke down between him and the board. Thats a major red flag.
Matt Law gave an interview an hour or so ago I just saw. It offers quite a bit of further insight. Apparently, the ownership group was. VERY willing to embrace Tuchel when they took over, but they had a vision of him embracing a “different culture” at Chelsea. And Tuchel apparently didn’t like it … at all. Being involved in WhatsApp meetings over transfers with multiple people, being in a more collaborative environment, being asked to explain “why” he made a certain decision.
Matt said some Chelsea managers in the past have longed for that sort of thing. But Tuchel just wants to coach on the pitch and actually preferred the isolation he had under the previous regime. He apparently only really had to talk to two people outside his players and staff. Which is fair, if that’s what Tuchel prefers, the new group isn’t what he signed up for <—Matt’s point.
On the flip side, the Clearlake group have apparently spent a TON of time trying to build relationships throughout every level of the club, and that structure or culture is important to them. They’ve hit every detail, down to how the non football staff are included and treated. They became frustrated with Tuchels unwillingness to be part of what they are building. Which is also fair… it is their team. If they want Tuchel involved in things like the “game plans” Academy players now get for mapping a possible path to the first team, then that’s what they want from their manager.<— also Matt’s point.
Frustrations grew, and both sides felt undermined to a degree. Law says Boehly and Tuchel had not met or really spoken since the Leeds defeat. Boehly went behind Tuchels back on both Broja and Gilmour apparently, with Broja deciding to stay. But Matt thinks the decision to move away from Tuchel was essentially made back then. It was just a matter of figuring out what they wanted to do.
Apparently, while it surprised him, Tuchel took it very well. He may not think this the right squad for him to be with anymore either.
Whether fair or not, Tuchel is a tactical genius who simply doesn’t care about long term projects, or integrating youth with a plan, or working collaboratively. He doesn’t want to explain his thinking on decisions, and probably doesn’t think he should have to.
It was about 45 minutes. You can find it on YouTube. What I took away from it was they were naive in thinking they could convince Tuchel to be something he’s not. And if they were starting from scratch, neither party would choose the other.
If I had an experienced squad that just could t get over that last hump, I’d go search out Tuchel in a heartbeat.
But Potter (if it’s him) would suit this team and ownership MUCH more.
Throughout the interview I kept picturing Tuchel looking at Boehly like a grumpier, fat version of Ted Lasso, and sneering anytime he asked what he considered a dumb question.
Matt said some Chelsea managers in the past have longed for that sort of thing. But Tuchel just wants to coach on the pitch and actually preferred the isolation he had under the previous regime. He apparently only really had to talk to two people outside his players and staff. Which is fair, if that’s what Tuchel prefers, the new group isn’t what he signed up for <—Matt’s point.
On the flip side, the Clearlake group have apparently spent a TON of time trying to build relationships throughout every level of the club, and that structure or culture is important to them. They’ve hit every detail, down to how the non football staff are included and treated. They became frustrated with Tuchels unwillingness to be part of what they are building. Which is also fair… it is their team. If they want Tuchel involved in things like the “game plans” Academy players now get for mapping a possible path to the first team, then that’s what they want from their manager.<— also Matt’s point.
Frustrations grew, and both sides felt undermined to a degree. Law says Boehly and Tuchel had not met or really spoken since the Leeds defeat. Boehly went behind Tuchels back on both Broja and Gilmour apparently, with Broja deciding to stay. But Matt thinks the decision to move away from Tuchel was essentially made back then. It was just a matter of figuring out what they wanted to do.
Apparently, while it surprised him, Tuchel took it very well. He may not think this the right squad for him to be with anymore either.
Whether fair or not, Tuchel is a tactical genius who simply doesn’t care about long term projects, or integrating youth with a plan, or working collaboratively. He doesn’t want to explain his thinking on decisions, and probably doesn’t think he should have to.
It was about 45 minutes. You can find it on YouTube. What I took away from it was they were naive in thinking they could convince Tuchel to be something he’s not. And if they were starting from scratch, neither party would choose the other.
If I had an experienced squad that just could t get over that last hump, I’d go search out Tuchel in a heartbeat.
But Potter (if it’s him) would suit this team and ownership MUCH more.
Throughout the interview I kept picturing Tuchel looking at Boehly like a grumpier, fat version of Ted Lasso, and sneering anytime he asked what he considered a dumb question.