Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

TBH, I think they should be protecting more people. Theres been too much 50/50 booking. I think they should pick about 3 or 4 people per brand and protect them as much as possible.

Raw: Balor, Seth, Roman and one more (possibly Braun and Joe as heels)
SD: AJ, Nakamura, Corbin, Owens. And Cena as the legend.

Make their clean losses really rare so when it does happen, it will mean a lot more.
 
Sylar said:
TBH, I think they should be protecting more people. Theres been too much 50/50 booking. I think they should pick about 3 or 4 people per brand and protect them as much as possible.

Raw: Balor, Seth, Roman and one more (possibly Braun and Joe as heels)
SD: AJ, Nakamura, Corbin, Owens. And Cena as the legend.

Make their clean losses really rare so when it does happen, it will mean a lot more.
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My personal opinion is that they should do like they've done in the women's division and have it so anyone can beat anyone. There's still room for someone to go unbeaten, but it'll look like more of an achievement if anyone's a threat. Additionally, I think they should have the US/IC title holders regularly talk up their capability to challenge for the WWE/Universal titles. Make them a real stepping stone and you won't have top talent sitting in the midcard for prolonged periods.

Also Sami Zayn needs to win the WWE title.
 
Top faces rarely lose clean, and (in WWE at least) heels rarely win clean. This isn't a new thing.
 
Welsh Wonder said:
Top faces rarely lose clean, and (in WWE at least) heels rarely win clean. This isn't a new thing.
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What are you on about? Roman Reigns is the only person to ever kick out after a finisher or chair shot, and the only person to rarely lose clean, ever.
 
Alex99 said:
As for Jinder, I never said he wasn't taking, but I remember so little about him from before that I also can't say with any certainty if there has been a change in his physique as noticeable as people are saying. However, given they suspended the man widely acknowledged to be their new top guy, I imagine they'd have no issue throwing the book at Jinder, a literal jobber, if he was using, particularly when he's stiffing top talent and injuring them.
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Yeah, you can tell he's definitely on something, and two things that give it away are the gyno and acne he's developed. As David Meltzer said, under USADA, Jinder Mahal would be in big trouble, but I don't think it's fair to solely target Jinder (not saying you are). PEDs go beyond aesthetics. I mean take a look at Lance Armstrong. Who would have thought he was juicing? I suppose half the locker room would get popped for PEDs, and I don't blame anyone for taking them because recovery is very important in such an environment, and there's only so much you can do to recover from getting banged up on a regular.

Name Changed said:
Being injured from mistakes by other wrestlers doesn't mean you're injury prone. If Mahal hits anyone else with such a stiff shot they'd also be legit hurt.
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dd0258d0555e82ff8702ce88aef91e2a.jpg


I was joking.
 
So was the UK championship just a dream I had?

What was the point of making a belt for it if you weren't going to do anything with it?
 
Alex99 said:
So something from near a decade ago then?

An upper-midcard feud such as a prolonged rivalry with first Rusev and then a shorter one with Chris Jericho for the US Title?

I'm really struggling to discern what you think they should have done. You say it was a slap on the wrist, but he lost his title, served a 30 day suspension, lost multiple matches on his return, spent months in the mid-card, and further months completely out of the title picture.

It'd been very easy for them to have done nothing. It'd have been very easy for them to give him a suspension on the sly and act like nothing was amiss. It'd have been very easy for them to suspend him and have him return right at the top of the card.

As it was, they very publicly acknowledged his violation (going as far as to call it an embarrassment to RAW), suspended him for a month and immediately removed him from the picture in regards to the top title, had him return in the mid-card and feud for the mid-card title, and then 9 months later have him in a non-title match against The Undertaker at Wrestlemania, the first real main event action he'd seen since he dropped the title at MitB the previous June.

The guy is one of their biggest draws, his merchandise sells more than anyone on else on the roster (exc. Cena), and is routinely praised by his colleagues for being an excellent in-ring performer and backstage presence.

Again, it was his first violation, and may have been for something as small as taking sudafed without getting the okay from WWE doctors first. I know people don't like Reigns (although I don't quite understand why), but highlighting his career post-suspension as an example of the wellness policy not working just stinks of a dislike of him rather than any reasoned criticism of the policy and its application.

As I said, if you want to criticise it, the most obvious target is the application (or lack thereof) to part-time performers.

Might be worth remembering that this whole discussion started because people think Jobber-to-the-Stars, Jinder "Stiffy" Mahal has been on the steroids.
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Are you talking about the time he held a midcard title but was consistently beating the guy with the main title? Yes...thats a serious depush.

Then basically making him the central attraction at the Rumble eliminating the pre-match favourite. If you think that's being in the midcard then I can't help you.

The wellness policy has been in existence for a number of years but it's largely non existent for the top guys (not just Reigns, he was just the most recent example).

Vince only bothered with for a few years after its inception because of the fallout from the Benoit massacre
 
horsechoker said:
So was the UK championship just a dream I had?

What was the point of making a belt for it if you weren't going to do anything with it?
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Seems to just be defended on the indies and that's about it. Was a pure gimmick anyways, just wwe shat themselves over WOS and created it.
 
K2K said:
Are you talking about the time he held a midcard title but was consistently beating the guy with the main title? Yes...thats a serious depush.

Then basically making him the central attraction at the Rumble eliminating the pre-match favourite. If you think that's being in the midcard then I can't help you.

The wellness policy has been in existence for a number of years but it's largely non existent for the top guys (not just Reigns, he was just the most recent example).

Vince only bothered with for a few years after its inception because of the fallout from the Benoit massacre
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It was about as serious of a depush as they were going to give their top star, and in all honesty, I'm still surprised they did anything. The issue you have is very clearly not with the Wellness Policy though, and it's abundantly clear that it has everything to do with your dislike of Reigns and the push he is getting.

WWE is not a competitive sport. Unless someone is seriously endangering their own health, then there isn't really much of a need for them to do anything about any sort of substance abuse unless it could affect or endanger other performers. As WWE is a business, they certainly won't be removing their top talent for longer than they have to. The Wellness Policy exists so that WWE as a business can absolve themselves of responsibility in the event that someone overdoses or their health is seriously affected by abusing certain substances. As I highlighted earlier, they've had no issue letting the likes of Kurt Angle and Jeff Hardy go due to issues with drugs, and I can't imagine they'll hesitate to if the need arose again. As it is, Reigns took something he shouldn't have, had a very public suspension, and is now back at the top of the card, 9 months later because that's where he makes them the most money.

I get that the Wellness Policy could be better, and I get that it's not the most consistently applied thing, but as I've said, WWE is not a sport, it is entertainment, and given that it wouldn't make any business sense for them to pull the guy getting the biggest reaction of anyone on the roster, they're not going to punish him for violating it more than they have to.

I've asked a few times and you've still not answered, but what exactly do you think they should have done with Reigns after his first violation, which many think was for either Adderall or fat-burners?
 
horsechoker said:
So was the UK championship just a dream I had?

What was the point of making a belt for it if you weren't going to do anything with it?
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They sort of half announced a weekly 1 hour network show for it without actually announcing a time or when it was going to begin airing. I think they want something like 205 Live but for the UK Championship.
 
Loads of you are missing out on the point of Roman Reigns. He's the first baby face heel that's ever existed. The point of the heel was someone who could whip the crowd into a frenzy that people would pay to see them get beaten and lose. It's been harder to do in recent years. Roman is the first one that transcends that. Every time they push him and promote him, plus giving him the Undertakers retirement means everyone hates him all the more and people want to see him get destroyed yet all the WWE has to do is keep pushing him as a major character and the furore builds even more. It's fascinating to see for me.
 
Alex99 said:
It was about as serious of a depush as they were going to give their top star, and in all honesty, I'm still surprised they did anything. The issue you have is very clearly not with the Wellness Policy though, and it's abundantly clear that it has everything to do with your dislike of Reigns and the push he is getting.

WWE is not a competitive sport. Unless someone is seriously endangering their own health, then there isn't really much of a need for them to do anything about any sort of substance abuse unless it could affect or endanger other performers. As WWE is a business, they certainly won't be removing their top talent for longer than they have to. The Wellness Policy exists so that WWE as a business can absolve themselves of responsibility in the event that someone overdoses or their health is seriously affected by abusing certain substances. As I highlighted earlier, they've had no issue letting the likes of Kurt Angle and Jeff Hardy go due to issues with drugs, and I can't imagine they'll hesitate to if the need arose again. As it is, Reigns took something he shouldn't have, had a very public suspension, and is now back at the top of the card, 9 months later because that's where he makes them the most money.

I get that the Wellness Policy could be better, and I get that it's not the most consistently applied thing, but as I've said, WWE is not a sport, it is entertainment, and given that it wouldn't make any business sense for them to pull the guy getting the biggest reaction of anyone on the roster, they're not going to punish him for violating it more than they have to.

I've asked a few times and you've still not answered, but what exactly do you think they should have done with Reigns after his first violation, which many think was for either Adderall or fat-burners?
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Is it possible that I have an issue with those two separate issues and can hold strong reasons for both independently from each other. I've thought the Wellness policy was a joke even before Reigns. Like 'Be a star ' it's just something the WWE does for good PR. Vince's attitude to steroids has always been lax and its one of the great mysteries how he avoided a jail sentence for his steroid case in the 90s.

You have basically admitted that too in your post. The wellness policy isn't to protect wrestlers like it should, but to protect the WWE. So it's only ever truly enforced when it suits them.

As to answer your question, if the policy was doing what it was meant to, and considering that three strikes means you are fired, any one with a strike shouldn't be pushed to the moon. For at least a year or two post their result.

And it's not just Reigns who this can be raised against. A two time violator was in the main title match at Wrestlemania and won the Rumble. This is supposed to be a man who should be fired if he fails again(You can bet your ass that third violation will never be announced)
 
Gambit said:
Loads of you are missing out on the point of Roman Reigns. He's the first baby face heel that's ever existed. The point of the heel was someone who could whip the crowd into a frenzy that people would pay to see them get beaten and lose. It's been harder to do in recent years. Roman is the first one that transcends that. Every time they push him and promote him, plus giving him the Undertakers retirement means everyone hates him all the more and people want to see him get destroyed yet all the WWE has to do is keep pushing him as a major character and the furore builds even more. It's fascinating to see for me.
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You give WWE creative far too much credit.
 
K2K said:
And it's not just Reigns who this can be raised against. A two time violator was in the main title match at Wrestlemania and won the Rumble. This is supposed to be a man who should be fired if he fails again(You can bet your ass that third violation will never be announced)
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they're removed from record after a couple of years, Randy is down to one strike again.
 
K2K said:
Is it possible that I have an issue with those two separate issues and can hold strong reasons for both independently from each other. I've thought the Wellness policy was a joke even before Reigns. Like 'Be a star ' it's just something the WWE does for good PR. Vince's attitude to steroids has always been lax and its one of the great mysteries how he avoided a jail sentence for his steroid case in the 90s.

You have basically admitted that too in your post. The wellness policy isn't to protect wrestlers like it should, but to protect the WWE. So it's only ever truly enforced when it suits them.

As to answer your question, if the policy was doing what it was meant to, and considering that three strikes means you are fired, any one with a strike shouldn't be pushed to the moon. For at least a year or two post their result.

And it's not just Reigns who this can be raised against. A two time violator was in the main title match at Wrestlemania and won the Rumble. This is supposed to be a man who should be fired if he fails again(You can bet your ass that third violation will never be announced)
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It is possible but until now it really hasn't seemed like it.

WWE are a business. Why on earth would they hinder their own business for the sake of punishing one of their biggest draws?

Of course it's to protect WWE. They can only do so much, and if Reigns was addicted to painkillers or snorting a line before heading to the ring he would be severely punished, and probably let go if he didn't properly rehabilitate. Any company's wellness policy is there to protect them over their employees. They can't control what their employees do outside of working hours but there is a degree of responsibility there, particularly with WWE. If, for argument's sake, Balor had picked up a painkiller addiction during his time off injured, and continued to take painkillers once his prescription was up, he'd violate the policy and get a suspension, and probably be packed off to rehab. If he then continued taking them and ended up overdosing or doing something that severely impacted his health, he then can't turn around and point the finger at the WWE. That's why the policy is in place.

Once again, and it's getting quite tiring pointing this out, WWE are not a competitive sports organisation. Their events are entirely scripted, and no actual competition takes place. Whilst they shouldn't encourage the use of steroids, reliance on painkillers, etc., as long as other talent is not being put in harm's way by someone using something they possibly shouldn't be, there's not really a great argument for particularly harsh punishments. If someone makes them a lot of money then they're going to get more leniency than someone at the bottom of the card.

I really struggle to understand why people get so annoyed by this. The WWE aren't a perfect a business, and their current dealings with Mauro and JBL are showing that.

I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with Jinder Mahal potentially taking steroids though.
 
I know they do it for a good and obvious reason, but I hate when they get out the chairs and shit and don't hit each other over the head. They'd be better off not using weapons at all...
 
Valar Morghulis said:
I know they do it for a good and obvious reason, but I hate when they get out the chairs and shit and don't hit each other over the head. They'd be better off not using weapons at all...
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Valar Morghulis said:
I know they do it for a good and obvious reason, but I hate when they get out the chairs and shit and don't hit each other over the head. They'd be better off not using weapons at all...
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The PG era has certainly ruined the aul chairshot.
 
Talking about chair shots, I saw this posted in the comments of an article about JBL being a supercunt.



Timestamp doesn't seem to work, but 5m 20s in, Stevie Richards absolutely smashes him for the shit he done to the Blue Meanie.
 
Earthquake said:
Talking about chair shots, I saw this posted in the comments of an article about JBL being a supercunt.



Timestamp doesn't seem to work, but 5m 20s in, Stevie Richards absolutely smashes him for the shit he done to the Blue Meanie.
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:lol: Don't you just love wrestling kicks out of the Chair shot, DDT, moonsault trio, then gets pinned by a fecking spinebuster
 
Paige did a facebook live video with Alberto Del Rio & he took it over and just took a piss out of their Anti Bullying & Anti Hate Campaign :lol:

She just said "I still work there" but let him continue
 
Garethw said:
I really don't know how this WWE wellness policy works.

The ripped and shredded look that Jinder has is more than achievable via diet and lots of hard work in the gym.

What isn't achievable naturally is the size that the dude has gained over such a small period of time.

Factor in the ridiculous travelling schedule (probably on the road 300 days a year) he has,and I'd put money on him using steroids to achieve his current look.
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Christ, you're obsessed. literally anytime I see a post from you in this thread it's an opinion about a wrestlers body shape and muscles or something along those lines.
 
Alex99 said:
Roman's feud with AJ was a trade of stupid hits. AJ got clocked by multiple finishers, weapons and got attacked by The Usos and kept going, but someone had to win so they pushed the guy they've picked as the new face of the brand. It's such one-sided, blinkered view that Reigns is the only one winning after taking these hits. AJ took literally every move in Cena's arsenal, including some that weren't, and still came out on top, but no one mentions that because he's well liked. Rollins came out with one leg against HHH, took further leg punishment, yet still won.

I'm not trying to argue that Roman doesn't get pushed to high heavens, because he does, but 1) any anger in that regard should be directed to the show runners, which simply doesn't happen, and instead you've got the same people who absolutely adore hating on Reigns literally bowing down when Vince makes an entrance, and 2) they could have easily swept his violation under the rug and kept him at the top all year, but they didn't. He was kept as a main part of shows because he's a big draw and good in-ring worker. The fact still remains that he dropped his title, took the pin in the rematch, lost more times in the run up to the inaugural UT match, then was chucked into an elimination match alongside Big Cass to make up the numbers in a match centered around Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins and HHH.

At the end of the day, WWE is not a competitive environment and any and all testing is done purely on a wellness basis. Any decision they make regarding talent is of course going to be dictated by what they bring to the WWE as a business, so by default their top talent is going to be given a bit more leniency than talent lower down the card. It's pretty much widely accepted that Angle was let go because of his addiction to painkillers, something TNA didn't give a toss about, and also that Jeff Hardy was let go because of his drug trouble. Even when they've not really been too hot on dealing with wellness violations, they've still washed their hands of top talent when it's gone too far.

My point was, and is, that the witch hunt for Reigns and his one wellness policy violation does not stem from any genuine concern for how the wellness policy is applied to WWE talent, but instead from the ridiculous hate directed in Reigns' direction. The man has been given one of the biggest pushes ever, that is undeniable, and I can fully understand why people would be unhappy with that, but to accept that WWE is a scripted wrestling show and then direct all anger towards the guy being pushed, rather than the people scripting it is just daft. It'd be like kicking off at the kid who plays Bobby Beale on Eastenders because you didn't think he should have been the main part of a storyline. It's entirely misdirected.
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Honestly mate, it's fecking tiring. The Reigns hate, it's beyond fecking stupid now, I know a lot of people on here and in general were waxing lyrical about the abuse he got on Raw after Wrestlemania but to me the only people looking like complete muppets were the crowd. It was embarrassing, as a wrestling fan I was embarrassed. Like a herd of sheep egging each other on, patting themselves on the back, thinking they're cool and edgy when really they're a bunch of massive idiots. It's got to the point where I'm actively wanting Reigns to win every match and every title possible, I don't even really like Reigns but i'm so tired of the nonsense. I think WWE fans at the moment are as low as they've ever been, in particular the more 'smarky' crowd.

And that point you made about wellness, I'd mention Edge and Randy Orton failing the wellness policy too and then headlining multiple Wrestlemania's.

phelans shorts said:
So booked like every top face in every promotion ever? How often did John Cena lose clean? Or The Rock? Or Steve Austin? Or Hulk Hogan? Or Bruno's Sammartino? Or Antonio Inoki? Or Kenta Kobashi? Or Big Daddy? Or Kazuchika Okada?
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Yep it's back again, moaning about a top face never losing clean. Honestly, I give up with these people.
 
Speaking of chairshots, probably two of the most vicious...



I understand why they stopped them but bring back dustbins and cookie trays. Those things offer no resistance and sound great!
 
K2K said:
You give WWE creative far too much credit.
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No, you're not giving them enough. The reaction on RAW after Wrestlemania to Reigns is music to their and McMahons ears. I know a cameraman who worked for them for 2 years and he was blown away by how in depth and on the button they are especially when it came to manipulating the fans emotions. Got to remember they've been doing it for decades now. What they don't want is silence. Boos, hatred, cheers, chants, anything that shows an emotional connection and engagement to a character or story line is what they're after. Silence is the killer for them. It shows the crowd don't give a shit.
 
Alex99 said:
It is possible but until now it really hasn't seemed like it.

WWE are a business. Why on earth would they hinder their own business for the sake of punishing one of their biggest draws?

Of course it's to protect WWE. They can only do so much, and if Reigns was addicted to painkillers or snorting a line before heading to the ring he would be severely punished, and probably let go if he didn't properly rehabilitate. Any company's wellness policy is there to protect them over their employees. They can't control what their employees do outside of working hours but there is a degree of responsibility there, particularly with WWE. If, for argument's sake, Balor had picked up a painkiller addiction during his time off injured, and continued to take painkillers once his prescription was up, he'd violate the policy and get a suspension, and probably be packed off to rehab. If he then continued taking them and ended up overdosing or doing something that severely impacted his health, he then can't turn around and point the finger at the WWE. That's why the policy is in place.

Once again, and it's getting quite tiring pointing this out, WWE are not a competitive sports organisation. Their events are entirely scripted, and no actual competition takes place. Whilst they shouldn't encourage the use of steroids, reliance on painkillers, etc., as long as other talent is not being put in harm's way by someone using something they possibly shouldn't be, there's not really a great argument for particularly harsh punishments. If someone makes them a lot of money then they're going to get more leniency than someone at the bottom of the card.

I really struggle to understand why people get so annoyed by this. The WWE aren't a perfect a business, and their current dealings with Mauro and JBL are showing that.

I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with Jinder Mahal potentially taking steroids though.
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It doesn't. Because I hardly ever touched on that. In your obsession to defend Reigns against supposedly unfair criticism you completely missed all that.

My argument was always that the Wellness policy isn't for the wrestlers well-being and its applied selectively. A point you have actually agreed with in your own posts. Everything else was secondary.
 
Gambit said:
No, you're not giving them enough. The reaction on RAW after Wrestlemania to Reigns is music to their and McMahons ears. I know a cameraman who worked for them for 2 years and he was blown away by how in depth and on the button they are especially when it came to manipulating the fans emotions. Got to remember they've been doing it for decades now. What they don't want is silence. Boos, hatred, cheers, chants, anything that shows an emotional connection and engagement to a character or story line is what they're after. Silence is the killer for them. It shows the crowd don't give a shit.
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They simply have to play with the hand they have been dealt.

There is no way they wouldn't want their top babyface getting Stone cold reactions because that means even more merchandise from a section of the fan base that tends to stick with them for the long haul


It's exactly that reason that the commentators basically lie as to why Reigns is being booed ( bizarro land and all that). It's simply to try and manipulate how the fans think but it simply isn't working with Reigns.

And not all heat is good. Especially when it threatens to turn into go away heat. Think of the heel heat that Triple H hot got in the mid 2000s during his Raw domination phase. That's exactly the type that leads to apathy from fans.
 
WWE know exactly what they are doing with Reigns. Anyone suggesting otherwise hasn't a clue. Sure, they'd rather he was being cheered than jeered but there is no such thing as a bad crowd reaction. Vince is neither deaf nor dumb. At this point he's just trolling the fans while still selling Reigns merchandise and getting huge reactions. It's a win win really.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Christ, you're obsessed. literally anytime I see a post from you in this thread it's an opinion about a wrestlers body shape and muscles or something along those lines.
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I've been a semi professional bodybuilder for nearly 20 years so I know more than most about steroids and HGH and I just share my opinion. If my opinions offend you mate then put me on ignore. I don't do it to upset anyone, as I said I'm just sharing my experience.

The WWE wellness policy is fecking bullshit. Juiceheads like Cena, Tripple H and this Jinder character would have been kicked out of the company if it was a real thing rather than a publicity stunt.
 
K2K said:
They simply have to play with the hand they have been dealt.

It's exactly that reason that the commentators basically lie as to why Reigns is being booed ( bizarro land and all that). It's simply to try and manipulate how the fans think but it simply isn't working with Reigns.
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Two parts I want to respond to. They're not simply playing the hand they'e been dealt. Everything is being done to make you hate him more and everyone is dancing to their fiddle. There's far more popular people they could replace him as main babyface with but no one is getting the kind of heat in the WWE that he is now and yes, everything they do and say is to try and manipulate fans and it is working perfectly with Reigns. Cena had the same for years, he sold great with the Kids but was hated by the hardcore fans for a long time and they manipulated that throughout his career, in the end respect for Cena's workrate came through. Now the same is happening with Reigns but with even more hatred and boy are they milking it. The whole Ambulance section people weren't cheering for Strowman, they were cheering because Reigns was getting battered. That's what they are after. 2 things will come out of Reigns career, either he'll become the babyface they'd love to have and the company wins, or he becomes even more hated and the company wins. The worst thing they could do now would be to turn Reigns heel.
 
Gambit said:
Loads of you are missing out on the point of Roman Reigns. He's the first baby face heel that's ever existed. The point of the heel was someone who could whip the crowd into a frenzy that people would pay to see them get beaten and lose. It's been harder to do in recent years. Roman is the first one that transcends that. Every time they push him and promote him, plus giving him the Undertakers retirement means everyone hates him all the more and people want to see him get destroyed yet all the WWE has to do is keep pushing him as a major character and the furore builds even more. It's fascinating to see for me.
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Except Cena.

Gambit said:
Everything is being done to make you hate him more and everyone is dancing to their fiddle.
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Now? Sure.
But lets be honest, WWE are only doing that cos they are playing with what they have. Theres no doubt Vince wishes Roman was like Austin in terms of reactions for demographics.

Its like how they played with the hand they were dealt for WM30 and Bryan (rather than Batista)
Or the year later when Seth cashed in instead of Roman beating Brock like it was reported that would initially happen.

However WWE knew what reaction Roman would get by putting him against Taker and they played to it on the following Raw.
 
The Rocky Maivia all American good guy character got booed out of every arena back in '96. The Steve Austen "Ringmaster" gimmick got no reaction from the crowds whatsoever.

A gimmick and attitude change and two of the most iconic characters in professional wrestling were created.

It's not too late to get the fans back on Roman's side. He needs to drop all the shield stuff (entrance theme and ring attire) and be completely repackaged as an ass kicking heel.
 
Sylar said:
Except Cena.
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Not to this level though. There was a fair mix of dislike and like for Cena.

Now? Sure.
But lets be honest, WWE are only doing that cos they are playing with what they have. Theres no doubt Vince wishes Roman was like Austin in terms of reactions for demographics.

Its like how they played with the hand they were dealt for WM30 and Bryan (rather than Batista)
Or the year later when Seth cashed in instead of Roman beating Brock like it was reported that would initially happen.

However WWE knew what reaction Roman would get by putting him against Taker and they played to it on the following Raw.
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Vince wishes every single one of his Wrestlers was like Austin in those terms. WWE has a very strong roster still and they're constantly building up and swapping out. This isn't the Monday night wars of the 90's where they were in danger and needed to completely change tact and found a character to build the whole brand around. Bringing in the NXT system has been fantastic for them. Yes Reigns was turned Baby face, yes it didn't go how they expected but they soon figured it out and how to make it work for them.
 
Garethw said:
The Rocky Maivia all American good guy character got booed out of every arena back in '96. The Steve Austen "Ringmaster" gimmick got no reaction from the crowds whatsoever.

A gimmick and attitude change and two of the most iconic characters in professional wrestling were created.

It's not too late to get the fans back on Roman's side. He needs to drop all the shield stuff (entrance theme and ring attire) and be completely repackaged as an ass kicking heel.
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Neither are even slightly comparable though. Neither of those were on the level that Reigns currently is. He's over with a large portion of the younger audience and is one of the biggest merchandise shifters, which neither the Maivia character of Ringmaster characters were. Maivia HAD to have a change of character, there's no question about that. Reigns doesn't have to in order to succeed. Would I like them to switch it up at some point with his character? Sure, but I honestly don't think either of the two examples you've given are even close to being comparable to Reigns.

Turning him heel or overhauling his character gives no guarantees that those same people will suddenly stop hating on him and also comes with the risk of losing a percentage of his younger fan base or people who support him.

Gambit said:
Not to this level though. There was a fair mix of dislike and like for Cena.



Vince wishes every single one of his Wrestlers was like Austin in those terms. WWE has a very strong roster still and they're constantly building up and swapping out. This isn't the Monday night wars of the 90's where they were in danger and needed to completely change tact and found a character to build the whole brand around. Bringing in the NXT system has been fantastic for them. Yes Reigns was turned Baby face, yes it didn't go how they expected but they soon figured it out and how to make it work for them.
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Some fans have short memories, Cena was getting just as much hate at one stage. It took a long time and a lot of Cena busting his ass until a lot of people started to give him his dues and accept that he was a ridiculously good worker.
 
Gambit said:
Two parts I want to respond to. They're not simply playing the hand they'e been dealt. Everything is being done to make you hate him more and everyone is dancing to their fiddle. There's far more popular people they could replace him as main babyface with but no one is getting the kind of heat in the WWE that he is now and yes, everything they do and say is to try and manipulate fans and it is working perfectly with Reigns. Cena had the same for years, he sold great with the Kids but was hated by the hardcore fans for a long time and they manipulated that throughout his career, in the end respect for Cena's workrate came through. Now the same is happening with Reigns but with even more hatred and boy are they milking it. The whole Ambulance section people weren't cheering for Strowman, they were cheering because Reigns was getting battered. That's what they are after. 2 things will come out of Reigns career, either he'll become the babyface they'd love to have and the company wins, or he becomes even more hated and the company wins. The worst thing they could do now would be to turn Reigns heel.
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The Roman Reigns hate is different because its not fans hating his character as they should with a great heel but him and the push he represents. Fans are tired of the whole superhero act and unfortunately for Reigns I think this extends all the way from Cena's push. Thats the fundamental difference. The hate Reigns receives isnt kayfabe heat, but perilously close to X-pac heat.

Can you honestly say hand on heart that the hate Reigns generates leads to fans wanting to see More of him or it's led to a case where a significant majority would be happy with a prolonged absence from him? That's not the kind of heat you want to be drawing as either heel or face.

It's simply a case that Vince has chosen Reigns as the next face of his company and he will be damned if wrestling fans think they can go against that. I expect the Roman hate to intensify and its a case of who blinks first.

Reigns gets similar hear to the one that Sheamus was getting during his megapush and that wasn't good heat either.
 
K2K said:
The Roman Reigns hate is different because its not fans hating his character as they should with a great heel but him and the push he represents. Fans are tired of the whole superhero act and unfortunately for Reigns I think this extends all the way from Cena's push. Thats the fundamental difference. The hate Reigns receives isnt kayfabe heat, but perilously close to X-pac heat.

Can you honestly say hand on heart that the hate Reigns generates leads to fans wanting to see More of him or it's led to a case where a significant majority would be happy with a prolonged absence from him? That's not the kind of heat you want to be drawing as either heel or face.

It's simply a case that Vince has chosen Reigns as the next face of his company and he will be damned if wrestling fans think they can go against that. I expect the Roman hate to intensify and its a case of who blinks first.

Reigns gets similar hear to the one that Sheamus was getting during his megapush and that wasn't good heat either.
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You've missed the point though. Regardless of what kind of heat he's drawing, until he stops getting a reaction and his merch stops selling in the numbers it is, he'll be there week in, week out. If people didn't react to Reigns then they'd have to rethink the push, because no reaction is the worst thing imaginable for WWE. As it is, any appearance is met with the entire crowd in uproar, which, if what Gambit says is remotely close to the truth, is exactly what they want. I still find it incredibly odd that the people who go to such lengths to hate on Reigns were the exact same literally bowing down to Vince when he appeared on RAW the other week.

Kids love Reigns. I coach a junior football team and they're always doing the fist-shotgun thing and the punching the ground thing when they score, and when they talk about the WWE version of Match Attax, they all get most excited about who has a Reigns card. The WWE are used to their live audience being a bit more smarky, and while their shows are still pulling in millions of worldwide viewers and the merchandise sales are still high, they're going to let that do the talking rather than the few thousand filling an arena. Reigns will never get X-Pac heat because X-Pac was never over with anyone to the degree Reigns is. Just because you can hear a load of grown men booing when Reigns steps out, doesn't mean there isn't a large number of kids going absolutely nuts because their favourite is there. This was never true for X-Pac because no one gave a toss. Same for Sheamus.

If people genuinely want Reigns out of the picture, they need to stop reacting when he appears, but even then he's still their highest merch seller outside of based-Cena.
 
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