Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

To jump in on the KO/Cesaro debat I think theres no question that Kev is far more superior on the mic and has a clear vision for what his character should be and how to deliver to the people. Cesaro is arguably the better in ring talent but its close I dont think he blows KO out of the water but a case could be made that Cesaro is superior. I think Cesaro has so much in ring ability that he can get past his weaknesses by just wrestling. Bret Hart wasnt the greatest on the mic but he resonated with everyone because hes just so good in the ring I think Cesaro can do the same but WWE doesnt seem to agree.
 
K2K said:
I think Roman gets the hated because fans are tired of being dictated who the top guys should be. For two consecutive Wrestlemania's now they have had to alter their main event , which the crowd basically rejected.

If Reign's becomes the top face, he'll be the most un-charismatic top face in decades. But knowing Vince, they'll push him either way. I think this will harm in the long run. Its not everyone with enough staying power and ability to handle the hate directed at you for years. Reigns snapped recently while giving a promo, imagine him in New York or even worse Chicago giving a long winded promo. The crowd will have him for breakfast.
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I was listening to a podcast with Reigns on it, and if he's not forced to do these pre-written lines I think he can talk quite well. Not sure if that would work in an arena with a mic in his hand though...
 
Cesaro ain't that bad in the mike as made out here. Yes, Owens is better, but he has a built great character esp with the Sami Zayn rivalry, (and the current popularity of NXT) something which Cesaro never had the opportunity for. Give a bit of work, Cesaro can be as good in cutting Promos too. And that Cesaro doesn't connect with the crowd is just bs.

 
Mark_GrumpyLion said:
I was listening to a podcast with Reigns on it, and if he's not forced to do these pre-written lines I think he can talk quite well. Not sure if that would work in an arena with a mic in his hand though...
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He was decent in that Snowed in Raw at WWE HQ, its when he is in front of a live crowd when the poor boy looks lost. As the new face of the company, he'll have to learn fast.
 
phelans shorts said:
In ring the two are at a similar level, which is very high. What seperates the two of them is Kevin Owens brain is just incredible.

I mean, look at this from two different ways, Kevin Owens can talk to a level that very few in the history of wrestling can, he's genuinely that good, and he's pushed and pushed to be able to use a character that's close to his real life persona which makes it even better, he genuinely believes the majority of what he says, because of course he does. Kevin Owens is just Kevin Steen turned up to 11 as they always say. He says he only wants to face the best because that way he gets more money, and you know what, that is legit, it's the reason he signed with the company.

Another example, and not just the promos, look at the match from NXT Brooklyn, when the crowd (who being complete smarks adore Kev) start chanting olé and bang, he fist pumps and grabs his shoulder drawing massive heel heat, he's a master, he "gets it" on a level that is just in a complete different universe to most performers, even some of the very best.

Add in some other factors such as how great Kev's look is (seriously, Dunn can hate it as much as he wants, but Kev is the joiner you see in your local that you spend all night trying to make sure you don't get on the wrong side of), and above all else, Kev is over to a level that Cesaro has never got anywhere near. Have you seen the American WWE shop site and how much merch they release for him? It all sells. It's quite incredible really, there's only John Cena and Brock Lesnar selling more merch than him.

None of this is me putting down Cesaro, I do like him quite a lot, although I don't see him as a main eventer, in my mind he's an upper midcard/challenger for the title every 2 years or so guy.
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In my opinion, Kevin Owens and Cesaro are the two best wrestlers in the company, 3 best with Rollins, and should be feuding for the title. Cesaro is massively underused. He is the best technical wrestler around. He connects with the fans also. It wouldn't take much to evolve his character and make him huge.
 
I agree with @Name Changed
No reason why all three shouldnt be near the top along with Ambrose, Bray and Reigns.

That would give six legit new guys whilst also have veterans like Orton and Cena to use as and when.
 
Cesaro has the exact same problem that Daniel Bryan did for quite some time, he has vocal fans but every metric you can monitor says he isn't over.

Bryan did turn it around, and I'm sure Cesaro could to, but not to the same level just because of Bryan's inherent like ability, they look at numbers, and his merch doesn't sell, house shows where he's prominent don't sell out etc… it's great to say he's one of the best wrestlers (to say he is the best is ludicrous imo) but so was Lance Storm, and he didn't move the needle either.

You've also got the problem of only so many guys can be legit top level. Owens has proved he belongs this year (again, every metric has him just behind Cena and Brock), Sami Zayn is more worthy of that spot than Cesaro, despite terrible booking Roman has something unique that can genuinely give a reason he should be up there, Apollo Crews is just money, pure and simple, Finn Balor when he's heel has everything to be up there and let's not forget Chad Gable, who is just incredible.

There's 6 off the top of my head that should be above Cesaro, not including Dean who I'm personally not big on but he's certainly unique enough to be a star, Seth who's been booked sub Honky Tonk Man standard, Bray who's a fantastic small doses performer and of course John Cena, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar.
 
phelans shorts said:
Cesaro has the exact same problem that Daniel Bryan did for quite some time, he has vocal fans but every metric you can monitor says he isn't over.

Bryan did turn it around, and I'm sure Cesaro could to, but not to the same level just because of Bryan's inherent like ability, they look at numbers, and his merch doesn't sell, house shows where he's prominent don't sell out etc… it's great to say he's one of the best wrestlers (to say he is the best is ludicrous imo) but so was Lance Storm, and he didn't move the needle either.

You've also got the problem of only so many guys can be legit top level. Owens has proved he belongs this year (again, every metric has him just behind Cena and Brock), Sami Zayn is more worthy of that spot than Cesaro, despite terrible booking Roman has something unique that can genuinely give a reason he should be up there, Apollo Crews is just money, pure and simple, Finn Balor when he's heel has everything to be up there and let's not forget Chad Gable, who is just incredible.

There's 6 off the top of my head that should be above Cesaro, not including Dean who I'm personally not big on but he's certainly unique enough to be a star, Seth who's been booked sub Honky Tonk Man standard, Bray who's a fantastic small doses performer and of course John Cena, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar.
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That's the problem isn't it? Maybe, there are just a few too much (potential) world stars. If Zayn is back too, that means that there are quite a few big guys on the card, not to mention the midcarders and their respective titles.

Another thought: Why don't they do Ring of Fire matches more often? Just too dangerous, because I quite like the concept.
 
Mark_GrumpyLion said:
That's the problem isn't it? Maybe, there are just a few too much (potential) world stars. If Zayn is back too, that means that there are quite a few big guys on the card, not to mention the midcarders and their respective titles.

Another thought: Why don't they do Ring of Fire matches more often? Just too dangerous, because I quite like the concept.
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It's another issue with a monopoly I guess, too many guys with not enough spots.

Ring of Fire has a tonne of issues, the matches never really get a good flow going as they're stuck in the middle of the ring, the live crowd can't see shit etc...
 
Name Changed said:
In my opinion, Kevin Owens and Cesaro are the two best wrestlers in the company, 3 best with Rollins, and should be feuding for the title. Cesaro is massively underused. He is the best technical wrestler around. He connects with the fans also. It wouldn't take much to evolve his character and make him huge.
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I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment..with only 1 world title nowadays, the days of token titles are over too. Cant see him getting a Swagger title reign for example.

I'd be suprised if he made it that far. I like him, just cant see it.
 
I stopped watching WWE for some years and am now back into it. On the WWE Network at the mo and just watched the 2012 Royal Rumble, surely this is one of the worst selection of entrants in WWE history?

To name a few: The Miz, Alex Riley, R-Truth, Justin Gabriel, Primo, Ricardo Rodriguez, Santino, Epico, Jerry Lawler, Ezekiel Jackson, Jinder Mahal, Khali, Hunico, Jim Duggan, Michael Cole, Kharma, Road Dogg, Jey Uso, Jack Swagger, David Otunga.

Some questionable shit there ^^
 
Is that the one Sheamus won? If so, yeah that was truly terrible. I dont remember anything about that except it was silly that Jericho didnt win it.
 
Not seen wrestling in years but christ is this interesting for me...

 
Not sure if any New Japan followers are aware or not but there was a press conference today announcing that Kota Ibushi has herniated a cervical disc, and is out for a LONG time. Real big shame, Ibushi had something of a breakout year following the concussion that kept him out most of last year.

The good news for him is that Gedo loves a comeback story, so don't be surprised to see the rocket attached when he returns.
 
25 years of Undertaker at the Survivor Series with bits going now our is our time to stand for him is making me more think traditional survivor series match of Wyatts and another vs BoD plus others. Next few weeks should tell one way or another.
 
Pretty good Raw again: Reigns was OK on the mic, Bray Wyatt looked proper evil, Lucha Dragons are not getting squashed, Paige has the #1 contendership and a decent Survivor match. Writing seems to has upped a level since Cena's out.
 
TBF, Orton hasnt really been used in a top spot for a while now. Saying that, with him and Cena out, it would be nice if WWE actually built now (rather than putting it on holding pace until cena returns).
 
Del Rio had a big entry beating Cena. What's he doing squashing R-Truth and Neville and Swagger? <yawn> US belt has moved right back into it's mid-card slot. For all his faults, Cena did elevate that title superbly. Sad no one can continue to at least hold it at that level for 2 fecking months!

KO vs Ambrose is one :drool: feud! Hope creative doesn't feck the storyline.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Del Rio had a big entry beating Cena. What's he doing squashing R-Truth and Neville and Swagger? <yawn> US belt has moved right back into it's mid-card slot. For all his faults, Cena did elevate that title superbly. Sad no one can continue to at least hold it at that level for 2 fecking months!

KO vs Ambrose is one :drool: feud! Hope creative doesn't feck the storyline.
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That's not the talents fault though, it's booking. Cena was having great matches and elevating it simply because he was allowed to and was favored by the booking. It's lazy booking really that will potentially drag it back down a few levels.
 
Yeah I dont like Del Rio as US champ unless he actually changes the flag on the US title to MexAmerica and defends it (well by him, I mean WWE).

Think it really should have been Owens taking it off Cena, whilst they should have had the IC title go to Cesaro.
 
JP77 said:
That's not the talents fault though, it's booking. Cena was having great matches and elevating it simply because he was allowed to and was favored by the booking. It's lazy booking really that will potentially drag it back down a few levels.
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Cena vs Neville > Del Rio vs Neville. I certainly think this one is more of in-ring performance and less on WWE Creative.

Sylar said:
Yeah I dont like Del Rio as US champ unless he actually changes the flag on the US title to MexAmerica and defends it (well by him, I mean WWE).
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MexAmerica is just a lame ass plot. Hope Swagger gets the 'we the people' going, but this is a feud he is doomed to lose.
 
LatinAmerica from TNA sounded better anyway :P ADR and Zeb seem weird together. I want Ricardo back damnit.
 
Rollins may have injured himself in Dublin
 
What the feck was that Wyatt segment about on Raw? I know it's the 25th Anniversary of the undertaker and all but did they have to roll the SFX and Pyro back to 1990? it was dreadful.
 
Rolandofgilead said:
What the feck was that Wyatt segment about on Raw? I know it's the 25th Anniversary of the undertaker and all but did they have to roll the SFX and Pyro back to 1990? it was dreadful.
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I did not mind it, but only if taker loses to Wyatt. If they want (and they should, in my opinion) to build Wyatt as the new sumernatural/fearful character on the scene, he needs to stop losing his feuds.
 
Mark_GrumpyLion said:
I did not mind it, but only if taker loses to Wyatt. If they want (and they should, in my opinion) to build Wyatt as the new sumernatural/fearful character on the scene, he needs to stop losing his feuds.
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Yep I agree. I have a lot of time for Wyatt but I want to see him push the boundary and become properly 'evil'
 
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