Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Big-Oranje said:
Attitude era had shit for the sake of it at times though, I don't think that can be argued. Hell in a kennel, ladder match for Terri Runnels, Big Show's daddy. feck me man, that while hugely entertaining at the time, you look back on and think...hang on a minute. Ruthless aggression began to move towards in ring action being what carried things and reduced a lot of gimmick matches. Then they lost their way again. I'd say the 2002 until it not being on Sky 1 anymore was some of the best.

The current product is much better in ring than it has been in recent years, it struggles in terms of giving stories to the undercard though. That is something the Attitude Era had in spades. The fact that any good comedy promo is on "the app" is a pain in the hole too.
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Yeah, while we had hell in a kennel we we're given numerous great hell in a cell classics! :) For ridiculous ladder matches for Terri Runnels it evolved into TLC at WM! Just had to laugh that shite off and stick through it to the good stuff I suppose...

Agree with you though, midcard needs more attention... the IC title has lost all meaning now, used to mean the holder would be challenging for the World Title then within the year generally... it was the stepping stone up to the big players. Now it means nothing at all. Don't get me started on the US Title.
 
Cantonarightboot said:
Yeah, while we had hell in a kennel we we're given numerous great hell in a cell classics! :) For ridiculous ladder matches for Terri Runnels it evolved into TLC at WM! Just had to laugh that shite off and stick through it to the good stuff I suppose...

Agree with you though, midcard needs more attention... the IC title has lost all meaning now, used to mean the holder would be challenging for the World Title then within the year generally... it was the stepping stone up to the big players. Now it means nothing at all. Don't get me started on the US Title.
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They keep putting the titles on solid guys to try propel them not realising they need to be engaged in stories AND NOT LOSING EVERY WEEK.
 
Cantonarightboot said:
Sorry but today's product is utter tripe compared to the attitude era, your entitled to your opinion but sorry facts are facts... there isn't a single damn wrestler today who could lace the boots of Kurt Angle (an olympic gold medal winning wrestler), Even Benoit or The Hart Family!!! Kenta, Bray, The Prince or even the God like figure of Punk (who loved the biz so much he turned his back on it)... PS don't give me excuses like he was banged up, what wrestler isn't? He doesn't give £uck about wrestling
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Kurt was nowhere near what he became in the Attitude Era. Hell he's better now than he was in the Attitude Era.

Benoit (who you seem to bring up in every single post for some unknown reason) was a very good technical wrestler, as were the Hart's, but better technicians than D Bry, Sami Zayn, Prince Devitt? That is one hell of a shout, and one that I can't agree with.

As for Punk, erm, ok? I don't disagree, but you can't deny the fact the guy is (was) a sensational pro wrestler.

There was clearly defined characters in the AE, the characters we're arguably the greatest to ever grace the business too from any generation... there was something there for everyone...
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Yeah? There are now if you look, hell half of them have equivalents now (Bo Dallas for instance is early Kurt Angle in pretty much every sense, only that he's a better talker than Kurt was at that point, Fandango is a very similar concept to Ravishing Rick Rude who I guess was earlier but still). I just don't see what point you're trying to make here.

So the talent was better, no doubt...
The characters we're clearly better...having honed their talents across the world in all kinds of organisations, giving them the time to learn their trade and develop their characters.
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Talent being better is far from beyond doubt, as mentioned, they may have had better promos around whereas now there's more of an emphasis on ringwork, it's a different style.

Just because they had chair shots to the head you say it pales in comparison? That they didn't know how to sell / or gave up... which is simply not true at all!
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That's far from what I said, to the initial part, and the latter is fact. They sold feck all. Just look at the main even of Mania 17 for instance, hugely iconic. That show is so good, then that main even is going so well, and it lasts about 5 minutes too long with needlessly laying shot after shot on Rock with him kicking out EVERY SINGLE TIME. It takes you out of it completely, where's the selling? Folks being put through tables then having a match the next show with no side effects. That's no selling.

As for dates, the Attitude Era ended at the invasion, so Wrestlemania 17 would be the end of that.
 
I wish the Attitude Era had never ended but at least most of the episodes are on Youtube so you can relive them if you really want to.

We often look back on it with rose-tinted glasses and there was a tonne of shit during the time but they still stack good as good to watch entertainment. Something which just isn't true anymore.

I thought it might've been because I had grown up (was 8-12 according to the official dates people state for AE) but they're still fun to watch when you do catch an episode. The writing wasn't even that good but the characters, the commentators and the action keeps you watching.
 
matherto said:
I wish the Attitude Era had never ended but at least most of the episodes are on Youtube so you can relive them if you really want to.

We often look back on it with rose-tinted glasses and there was a tonne of shit during the time but they still stack good as good to watch entertainment. Something which just isn't true anymore.

I thought it might've been because I had grown up (was 8-12 according to the official dates people state for AE) but they're still fun to watch when you do catch an episode. The writing wasn't even that good but the characters, the commentators and the action keeps you watching.
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There's more wrestling from recent years I'd go back to watch over again, but the promos and such from Attitude and early Ruthless Aggression still hold up.
 
Big-Oranje said:
Attitude era had shit for the sake of it at times though, I don't think that can be argued. Hell in a kennel, ladder match for Terri Runnels, Big Show's daddy. feck me man, that while hugely entertaining at the time, you look back on and think...hang on a minute. Ruthless aggression began to move towards in ring action being what carried things and reduced a lot of gimmick matches. Then they lost their way again. I'd say the 2002 until it not being on Sky 1 anymore was some of the best.

The current product is much better in ring than it has been in recent years, it struggles in terms of giving stories to the undercard though. That is something the Attitude Era had in spades. The fact that any good comedy promo is on "the app" is a pain in the hole too.
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NXT is far closer to what the first 40-60 minutes of RAW/Smackdown used to be than the actual lower card is now.
 
Big-Oranje said:
There's more wrestling from recent years I'd go back to watch over again, but the promos and such from Attitude and early Ruthless Aggression still hold up.
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I suppose it does depend what makes you watch it.

I was never that arsed in the technical aspects in the ring, just the spectacular moves, spots and all the chair shots, putting people through tables, etc so the AE is better than anything more recent. I don't doubt that the actual wrestling has improved in recent years because all I hear is it was crap during that time.
 
phelans shorts said:
Kurt was nowhere near what he became in the Attitude Era. Hell he's better now than he was in the Attitude Era.

Benoit (who you seem to bring up in every single post for some unknown reason) was a very good technical wrestler, as were the Hart's, but better technicians than D Bry, Sami Zayn, Prince Devitt? That is one hell of a shout, and one that I can't agree with.

As for Punk, erm, ok? I don't disagree, but you can't deny the fact the guy is (was) a sensational pro wrestler.



Yeah? There are now if you look, hell half of them have equivalents now (Bo Dallas for instance is early Kurt Angle in pretty much every sense, only that he's a better talker than Kurt was at that point, Fandango is a very similar concept to Ravishing Rick Rude who I guess was earlier but still). I just don't see what point you're trying to make here.



Talent being better is far from beyond doubt, as mentioned, they may have had better promos around whereas now there's more of an emphasis on ringwork, it's a different style.



That's far from what I said, to the initial part, and the latter is fact. They sold feck all. Just look at the main even of Mania 17 for instance, hugely iconic. That show is so good, then that main even is going so well, and it lasts about 5 minutes too long with needlessly laying shot after shot on Rock with him kicking out EVERY SINGLE TIME. It takes you out of it completely, where's the selling? Folks being put through tables then having a match the next show with no side effects. That's no selling.

As for dates, the Attitude Era ended at the invasion, so Wrestlemania 17 would be the end of that.
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Wow! So many inaccurate statements! hmm....

Point by point I guess I'll go....

Sorry but how was Kurt never at it? the guy is a gold medal winner, his technical ability should never be called into question...If he so chose he'd fecking annihilate any talent past or present in WWE. His character from the start was great too, it just took him time (as it always does for all guys) to develop. I bought into it right away thought, my uncle and I loved how cheesy and arrogant he was..the stuff with Edge & Christian was brilliant!

I find it hilarious every single current talent today whom you consider to be better than Benoit, all idolize the guy... they've based practically either their entire in ring style on him or stole many parts of it, think I'm wrong? DBry? Flying head butt? Right out of the benoit play book. Cesaro has many elements of him in his style to, the fierce snap he has in his suplexes and slams have shades of Benoit... BTW, I know Prince Devitt (lives near me) and he's told me himself that he styles himself in ring on Benoit..christ his first gimmick in Japan was Pegasus Kid, who was the Original Pegasus Kid?? Benoit!!

Why do I mention Benoit in many of my comments? Simply because I feel the guy is one of the greatest talents in ring, no doubt. It is a fair argument to put him in as number 1!!

I'll be crucified for it but never bought into the Punk hype...He's good but still he's never personally gripped me! His "character" sucks! One match of his has really stood out so far for me and that was the Summerslam match against Lesnar! Some of the MITB matches at WM few years back too...
 
Cantonarightboot said:
Wow! So many inaccurate statements! hmm....

Point by point I guess I'll go....

Sorry but how was Kurt never at it? the guy is a gold medal winner, his technical ability should never be called into question...If he so chose he'd fecking annihilate any talent past or present in WWE. His character from the start was great too, it just took him time (as it always does for all guys) to develop. I bought into it right away thought, my uncle and I loved how cheesy and arrogant he was..the stuff with Edge & Christian was brilliant
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You are aware that professional and amatuer wrestling comparisons are completely different animals aren't you? You keep bringing up his gold medal, in AMATEUR wrestling, which is not in any way comparable to professional wrestling.

I find it hilarious every single current talent today whom you consider to be better than Benoit, all idolize the guy... they've based practically either their entire in ring style on him or stole many parts of it, think I'm wrong? DBry? Flying head butt? Right out of the benoit play book. Cesaro has many elements of him in his style to, the fierce snap he has in his suplexes and slams have shades of Benoit... BTW, I know Prince Devitt (lives near me) and he's told me himself that he styles himself in ring on Benoit..christ his first gimmick in Japan was Pegasus Kid, who was the Original Pegasus Kid?? Benoit!!

Why do I mention Benoit in many of my comments? Simply because I feel the guy is one of the greatest talents in ring, no doubt. It is a fair argument to put him in as number 1!!
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I never said Benoit wasn't a great wrestler, and I never said he wasn't incredibly influential, but there's no need to keep mentioning him. Benoit didn't "invent" any of them moves, he took them from elsewhere himself.

I'll be crucified for it but never bought into the Punk hype...He's good but still he's never personally gripped me! His "character" sucks! One match of his has really stood out so far for me and that was the Summerslam match against Lesnar! Some of the MITB matches at WM few years back too...
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Whether he grips you or not his talent and skill is not up for debate. He's had numerous 4.5/5 star matches, it speaks for itself.
 
In fairness, the way I understand it Puder went off-script, so Angle wouldn't have expected it.

Puder probably regretted it the second they set Hardcore Holly, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit on him at the Rumble :lol:
 
:lol: John Cena is the best wrestler, he has the most titles. Idiots.
 
phelans shorts said:
You are aware that professional and amatuer wrestling comparisons are completely different animals aren't you? You keep bringing up his gold medal, in AMATEUR wrestling, which is not in any way comparable to professional wrestling.



I never said Benoit wasn't a great wrestler, and I never said he wasn't incredibly influential, but there's no need to keep mentioning him. Benoit didn't "invent" any of them moves, he took them from elsewhere himself.



Whether he grips you or not his talent and skill is not up for debate. He's had numerous 4.5/5 star matches, it speaks for itself.
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I was wondering if you we're aware of it being pre-determined funnily enough! I mention his medal in amateur wrestling because it shows his actual in ring ability, be it amateur or pro... the man could and still go with some of the best ever! I did also mention his character, I enjoyed it from the start, yeah he was pretty raw, but he worked at it and in such a short space of time he really upped his game! In ring, on the mic and character development all improved very quickly.

The point I was making about Benoit and Angle is because its unquestionable their talent is far greater than anything currently in there, I am aware of Benoit taking moves from other talents before him, like the flying headbutt from Dynamite Kid...but you can argue he made it his own, if WWE didn't have this ridiculous ruling of not mentioning the "unspoken ones name" then Bryan's flying headbutt would be referenced back to Benoit, instead now its not mentioned at all... He made the move his own, like he done with many other maneuvers. Yes Lock = Crippler Cross Face... I could go on on....

Punks talent and skill is of course up for debate, like saying a footballers skill or talent cant be up for debate...of course it can! I feel he is vastly over rated tbh... As mentioned his gimmick positively fecking sucks! What is it? I don't smoke or drink, voice of the voiceless? yeah yeah...Screaming I'm the best in the world? His in ring ability is good but I really do not buy into the current day internet goons who idolise him and then shout his name at events and make him into a god of wrestling...I don't get why supposed fans of wrestling follow him so much and sing about his greatness, he turns his back on the biz without a care in the world...but god forbid when the Rock does it he is heckled for it and doesn't care about wrestling?
 
Cantonarightboot said:
I was wondering if you we're aware of it being pre-determined funnily enough! I mention his medal in amateur wrestling because it shows his actual in ring ability, be it amateur or pro... the man could and still go with some of the best ever! I did also mention his character, I enjoyed it from the start, yeah he was pretty raw, but he worked at it and in such a short space of time he really upped his game! In ring, on the mic and character development all improved very quickly.

The point I was making about Benoit and Angle is because its unquestionable their talent is far greater than anything currently in there, I am aware of Benoit taking moves from other talents before him, like the flying headbutt from Dynamite Kid...but you can argue he made it his own, if WWE didn't have this ridiculous ruling of not mentioning the "unspoken ones name" then Bryan's flying headbutt would be referenced back to Benoit, instead now its not mentioned at all... He made the move his own, like he done with many other maneuvers. Yes Lock = Crippler Cross Face... I could go on on....

Punks talent and skill is of course up for debate, like saying a footballers skill or talent cant be up for debate...of course it can! I feel he is vastly over rated tbh... As mentioned his gimmick positively fecking sucks! What is it? I don't smoke or drink, voice of the voiceless? yeah yeah...Screaming I'm the best in the world? His in ring ability is good but I really do not buy into the current day internet goons who idolise him and then shout his name at events and make him into a god of wrestling...I don't get why supposed fans of wrestling follow him so much and sing about his greatness, he turns his back on the biz without a care in the world...but god forbid when the Rock does it he is heckled for it and doesn't care about wrestling?
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Nope.
 
Cantonarightboot said:
It really is the same move, only difference being DBry doesn't lock the arm into his legs... that aside its the same!

Catching up on this weeks Raw, hows Payback shaping up? Main Event Shield v Evolution...should be good!
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LeBell Lock
 
trying to build your man Rusev up, had to go over! that was over very very quickly!

Booking is pretty much always rubbish these days! they change their mind far too much!
 
Zarlak said:
It should have been a dirty heel finish or a pinfall. Making him tap is unnecessary imo.
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well if he gets a dirty heel finish ie cheating then Rusev looks weak... all they had to do was have the match run 5 mins more, did that match even last 5mins? doubtful! If it had run longer than Big E could of looked like a proper threat...

I get what you mean, 2 or 3 months ago they we're pushing Big E it seemed!
 
Ideally this match would end after Barrett elbows RVD in the face straight after the opening bell.
 
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