Wrestling promoters have always listened to fans with regards to who gets pushed. It's all about following the money.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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I can't see him not winning at mania. Eventually people will get bored with the chase and Bryan fueding with the same people(HHH/Orton,etc). I know my interest has waned plenty of times since Summerslam and I have not brought plenty of PPVS because I thought the results were predictable or the cards overall not good enough. I remember that run of PPVS from Battleground through to the Rumble all being a bit disappointing and the Raws not being as good as they during the summer which I thought was a really good run of TV and had three really good PPVS in a row from MITB to Summerslam. The problem with WWE is if the main event angle is not hot it's quite rare, other than Mania, that the other fueds can make up for it as that's where all the attention goes. He needs to win the main event, and start a new fued.
I don't think they make much money trolling the IWC, who tend to stream PPVS or merchandise. The money is in the kids, families and casual fans and they are going want this paid off at mania.
They could take him in a programme with Batista after as that's new but he needs to get away from HHH, Orton and Stephanie Mcmahon. This is not an angle like the NWO or Austin vs Mcmahon where you can string it out for over a year because it's so good. Personally I think the authority angle overall has been a bit of a letdown and not as good as it could have been, but it's at least heading into a good mania main event.
There going want to keep interest in the network high as they have totally change how their PPVS are sold and that bargain price they have at the moment is going to rise over time.
The Authority angle has been a let down because they havent used it to push Orton as the top champion he should be that is backed by them to the hilt - it even had that crazy moment of HHH starting a Yes Chant against Orton in a promo. Its like HHH wants to be a heel but wants to get cheered for his own ego which ruins things. At least in recent weeks hes been the heel he should be. Stephanie on the other hand is a much better heel than HHH imo.
I know they go with the whole "theres no heels or faces anymore" but tbh, apart from Cena really, that shouldnt be the case.
I know they go with the whole "theres no heels or faces anymore" but tbh, apart from Cena really, that shouldnt be the case.
Not a single chance that Batista is walking out of Wrestlemania with the title. Not a single chance and I'd bet any amount of money on it and I'll allow anybody to quote me on it.
The WWE has fooled countless people with this story. They've had 95% of the people in the palm of their hands and played every single one of them. They were never forced into this. This was never a late switch because of how the crowd reacted to Batista. It was the plan all along. You don't put that much work and effort into a story and then have no payoff. Daniel Bryan was always getting his moment at Wrestlemania, ALWAYS. Win the title? Immense moment. But they've got that bit further. They're going to have Bryan defeat Triple H clean. Bryan is going to take a beating in that match and go on to the main event, beaten and broken down. He's going to overcome all of the odds, every single one of them and win the title. He's going to hold the title up and celebrate as Wrestlemania, the biggest platform show in wrestling, fades out with the crowd going mental.
In one night Bryan is going to get his revenge on the authority figure that has been holding him back for a year. He's going to finally get his moment and win the title properly with no bullshit, no dusty finishes, no aftermath screwjobs. He's going to win two matches in one single night. And he's going to do it at WRESTLEMANIA. All based on a story that's basically been running close to a year. Up's and downs, swerves (the Rumble, wanting just Triple H etc).
Tell me that's not booking at it's absolute finest. When the WWE want to, they can book and produce incredible stories with incredible payoffs. If you think for one moment there's going to be one final swerve at the biggest show, at the final stage of all of this, then to put it bluntly, you're wrong (no offence in saying that btw). It's going to be one of the greatest moments in Wrestlemania history.
Cant see or say that WWE planned the reaction to Batista and were always going to turn him heel expecting it.
Do you honestly think Bryan facing HHH and BAtista turning heel was how they had this booked and planned all along?
Bryan being in the main event and winning at mania I could see always being the plan but adding HHH and turning Batista heel all seem to have been last minute decisions. In fairness due to Punk leaving the HHH match was forced on them but I don't for a second think they envisaged Batista getting the shit storm of reactions since he has returned. I think they put him in an impossible position.
I'm not gonna pretend I know how much WWE has booked this angle.....I'd love to know honesty, theres no way it can all just fall into place so perfectly by pure coincidence going from reactions. They've put alot into making Bryan hugely mainstream outside of WWE, not just giving him headlines and plenty of Raw(and Smackdown) airtime.....far more than the champion over that time.
Punk being a work and screwing Bryan over is the only way to not give him the title at WM though. Batista holding until Summerslam wouldn't quite be as fun and yeah as some have said, the chase will be getting boring, Batista isn't good enough to continue this.
Punk being a work and screwing Bryan over is the only way to not give him the title at WM though. Batista holding until Summerslam wouldn't quite be as fun and yeah as some have said, the chase will be getting boring, Batista isn't good enough to continue this.
No that's certainly not what I'm saying man. I don't think the WWE envisioned Batista returning and getting shit all over (I think the poor reactions he's getting right now might of been much more less had Bryan not of been seemingly out of the title picture and then Batista winning the Rumble. Those combined pushed fans even more to shit all over Batista).
I'd also expect you're likely right regarding Triple H. He'd of likely faced Punk instead and Bryan would of simply done one match on the night and won the title. Those things simply came together in the end and played into the story. I'm confident Bryan was always walking out of Wrestlemania no matter what. It's why I was pissing myself when people believed the rumors that they were going to do Bryan/Sheamus.
I always thought Bryan was going to main event mania as well, originally I thought they were going to do Bryan vs Cena rematch with Cena as the undisputed champion. What put some doubt in my mind was how the Rumble went down because that was really badly received from the title match to the actual Rumble itself. I never thought he would be facing Sheamus either but then I never thought Cena would be facing Wyatt either which was rumoured at the same time. There's no way they could have wanted such negative publicity from that event.
Like you still always think the plan was to get him into the main event but the anticipation for it is much higher than they expected because how they fecked up te Rumble and the negativity that caused and the HHH match never makes it a much more epic story when/if he wins on the night.
What I think they do deserve credit for is turning alot of the Rumble negativity and Punk leaving into the storyline to make Bryan's mania matches much more of a big deal.
Like you still always think the plan was to get him into the main event but the anticipation for it is much higher than they expected because how they fecked up te Rumble and the negativity that caused and the HHH match never makes it a much more epic story when/if he wins on the night.
What I think they do deserve credit for is turning alot of the Rumble negativity and Punk leaving into the storyline to make Bryan's mania matches much more of a big deal.
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They've managed to make Punk an afterthought, which is good going after Chicago's hissy fit last Monday. I can't remember a single Punk chant from this weeks show.
IMO WWE have dealt with the Punk situation brilliantly. They could have buried him after he stormed out like the did with SCSA but they've kept the door open for him. This also also helped them build this pseudo reality storyline where people are speculating whether this is a work or he'll return.
They have reacted quite well to the Batista issue and turned him heel rather than trying to force him down our throats (if only they'd do that with other "faces"). IMO their reaction to the Chicago crowd was excellently played. They let the fans create an amazing atmosphere and used the whole hijack RAW angle to their advantage, even taking it to another (albeit slightly cheesy) level this week with the ring occupation.
http://www.wwe.com/inside/how-sara-amato-is-changing-divas-division-26194085
This is a good article. Sara Del Rey is a great wrestler, and by the looks of it she's doing a great job of training as well.
I'm just hoping we'll see her back in the ring again one day.
This is a good article. Sara Del Rey is a great wrestler, and by the looks of it she's doing a great job of training as well.
I'm just hoping we'll see her back in the ring again one day.
I think they've played the entire thing great. They have the fans legit pissed off at them. HHH gets heat without even trying now. Fans actually hate him because they perceive Bryan to be being held down despite him being the focal point of the storyline with the most TV time for the last year.
The fans think that they're finally getting what they want, when they've been played the whole time. The heels have drawn immense heat and Bryan is getting the best pops.
The fans think that they're finally getting what they want, when they've been played the whole time. The heels have drawn immense heat and Bryan is getting the best pops.
It would have been interesting had Batista not got shit on by the fans upon his return (well from the Rumble onwards) and he was really popular with the fans going to the arenas which I think WWE was expecting.
If that had happened, it wouldnt have made sense to add Bryan to the title match
I agree, WWE did fantastic since the Chicago show and finally they now have focus going into WM. Personally I would have loved to have seen some other matches. It will be interesting to see what they do with the Shield, Sheamus, Goldust/Cody. Just having them in the battle royal after the years theyve had (well Sheamus less so) would be a bit lame imo.
If that had happened, it wouldnt have made sense to add Bryan to the title match
I agree, WWE did fantastic since the Chicago show and finally they now have focus going into WM. Personally I would have loved to have seen some other matches. It will be interesting to see what they do with the Shield, Sheamus, Goldust/Cody. Just having them in the battle royal after the years theyve had (well Sheamus less so) would be a bit lame imo.
Cody and Goldust are a cert for the battle royal. They are going into Mania with nothing else. Looks like Sheamus, and Del Rio are going into there as well. They can't get a mania match out of Sheamus and Christian, surely? Does not look like IC or US titles will get a match with such little build unless they do the Real Americans versus Big E in a triple threat so that's probably Big E for the Battle Royale as well.
I'd guess the Divas title will get a match, tag titles will probably get a match(USos vs NAO) and Swagger vs Cesaro will make up the numbers as that is still being pushed on the shows..
There leaving breaking up the Shield pretty late for mania with only 3 raws left and them having a week of solidarity this week.
No problem if they put all the good midcarders and up and comers in the battle royal, it might be able to fill the void of the MITB match being taken off Mania. Give them 30 minutes and I think that would be a great opener to the show with the Bryan/HHH match second or third. If Reigns is in that he is certainly winning it.
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Agreed with most of that, but given its WM30, will it be five hours like WM20 was? That may burn the crowd out though, saying that the crowd exploded for Benoits title win 10 years ago despite five hours before that.
I still think the card is looking really weak for a WM.
I honestly think they shouldnt break up the Shield like they normally do with team breakups, but instead agree to go their seperate ways when they do.
Divas match has to be AJ vs Tamina? Or they should do a NXT push and have AJ vs Paige.
I still think the card is looking really weak for a WM.
I honestly think they shouldnt break up the Shield like they normally do with team breakups, but instead agree to go their seperate ways when they do.
Divas match has to be AJ vs Tamina? Or they should do a NXT push and have AJ vs Paige.
Well, normal Wrestlemania's are about 3 hours 40 minutes long - with about 2 hours worth of wrestling and 90/100 minutes worth of entrances/promos/concerts/dicking about. I can certainly see this going up to 4 hours though... Wrestlemania 20 had about 144 minutes worth of wrestling, so that could possibly be the case here.
I'm curious as to what will be the pre-show match though, with them making a big deal out of this Andre The Giant trophy, I think that'll open the show, which means either the Tag Match or Swagger/Cesaro match will go on the pre-show - probably the tag match.
Pre show - Tag Title Match - 15 minutes
Battle Royal - 15 minutes
Womens Match - 5 minutes
Cesaro vs. Swagger (vs. Langston?) - 10 minutes
Shield Triple Threat - 15 minutes
Bryan vs. HHH - 25 minutes
Cena vs. Wyatt - 25 minutes
Taker vs. Brock - 25 minutes
Byran vs. Batista vs. Orton - 20 minutes.
Which is about 140 minutes of matches on the main card... if we're going by Wrestlemania 20 standards.
I think they also might shove an NXT match on the pre-show too.
Just realized how long its been since Eddie Guerrero died. 2005. Such a horrible moment.
Eddie was great...
One of his funniest moments.
One of his funniest moments.
Loved that, also loved it when he auctioned off Kurt Angle's medals and other belongings
If the way Batista has been booked since coming back is on purpose, then it's even dumber than if it's happned by accident.
I mean, if you took him out of the WM main event, it would make no difference to anything. No one would care. Brian would beat HHH and face Orton.
Are people trying to say WWE brought Batista back in order to deliberately make him completely and utterly pointless?
Whatever way you try and work it out, there's been a major feck up somewhere down the line.
I mean, if you took him out of the WM main event, it would make no difference to anything. No one would care. Brian would beat HHH and face Orton.
Are people trying to say WWE brought Batista back in order to deliberately make him completely and utterly pointless?
Whatever way you try and work it out, there's been a major feck up somewhere down the line.
Jesus, his pretend selling was better than most actual injury selling is nowadays.
Giving him the Rumble win was where they went wrong, it was so obvious it he was winning it that it made the match itself pointless. He walked away for four years and came back and was given the main event, the fans were always going to be against it because he hadn't earned it. Punk and Bryan busted their arses all year and were booked as if it was one of them that'd win the Rumble, the other going on to face Triple H at Mania. I'd highly doubt Punk would've walked away had Bryan won the Rumble, I'm not saying it was that incident alone that did it for Punk but it'll of been the final straw.
Them putting Bryan in the match gives the fans a reason to care about it, Orton and Batista don't have it in them to carry it off on their own. The match would've been dire and the crowd dead, too many recent main event matches have been let down by WWE pushing something the fans didn't care about. Mania 27 and 29 were let down by giving the fans a match that no one wanted nor cared for, it would have been the same had it been a one on one affair between Orton and Batista.
Sadly it was, he was due to be pushed which'd have seen him win the Rumble and go on to Mania and win the belt for the second time.
There's no way WWE planned this from the start. They might have planned for Bryan to win the title or get his chance (which Zarlak said a few months ago), however, wrestling is constantly changing - and I don't believe they knew that Batista would receive a poor reaction. Batista was booked as a face, but because of what happened in the Royal Rumble, they had to change him to a heel. CM Punk left and subsequently, that had a change on the complexion of WrestleMania. Oh, and let's also not forget that the authority storyline has been a bore. Orton is putting on some of his best work ever, yet it has been brushed off by Bryan fans unfortunately. Looking back on the Royal Rumble, who was responsible for booking Rey Mysterio at 30? It should have been a heel. Jeez, what a monumental screw up that was. Vince can say what he wants about heels and faces, but there was no way Orton and Batista would have worked. Steve Austin said it best - WWE need to make use of Bryan now before it dies out. Some may not agree that the love for Bryan will fade, but this could be the hottest he'll ever be, so capitalise on it now...
/endrant
/endrant
Does anyone remember when Y2J won the title in the main event at Unforgiven after getting a severe ass whooping by HBK in an earlier unsanctioned match? I certainly didn't expect him to leave with the title when he replaced Punk in that match.
I think the same will happen with Bryan at Wrestlemania. He's going to get a severe beatdown by HHH and his buddies to weaken him. Then he'll sneak a win after interference by either Cena, returning Punk or Big Show. He's not getting a clean win over HHH. He'll then sneak a victory in the main event. He'll then lose the title to Batista in a rematch on Raw or the next PPV. That is how I see things. After Mania the WWE have no reason to pander to the fans they can push whoever they want.
I think the same will happen with Bryan at Wrestlemania. He's going to get a severe beatdown by HHH and his buddies to weaken him. Then he'll sneak a win after interference by either Cena, returning Punk or Big Show. He's not getting a clean win over HHH. He'll then sneak a victory in the main event. He'll then lose the title to Batista in a rematch on Raw or the next PPV. That is how I see things. After Mania the WWE have no reason to pander to the fans they can push whoever they want.
Its not just the "IWC" anymore though is it, he's one of the biggest merch sellers and a face to 99% of the crowds.
Aye, Bryan is now the second top selling merch guy in the company or something... He'll be staying as a top babyface for quite some time.
It's just occured to me that Randy Orton is the king of the Mania Triple Threat... this will be his Fourth Mania Triple Threat match - which must be some sort of pointless record.
It's just occured to me that Randy Orton is the king of the Mania Triple Threat... this will be his Fourth Mania Triple Threat match - which must be some sort of pointless record.
As much as I want Bryan to win, Orton retaining wouldn't annoy me.
Rey Mysterio was also a top merchandise seller in his prime. But the WWE kept rotating the titles between Batista, Orton, Edge, HHH and Cena.
WWE made Rey champion and did it the wrong way. They had him win the Rumble, then had him lose that to Orton before Teddy Long gave it back to him... just because. Then he won the title in a 9 minute match and then after winning the title was squashed by Khali and Mark Henry for some reason to be made to look weak. THe crowd turned on him cos it was seen as a pity reign due to Eddies death rather than his own merits.
WWE need to be careful and not have Bryan win every match by a fluke. WM needs to end with him winning the title by pinning Orton and the crowd all chanting yes. This allows Orton to still get a rematch but also allows Batista to say he was screwed as he wasnt pinned IMO.
WWE need to be careful and not have Bryan win every match by a fluke. WM needs to end with him winning the title by pinning Orton and the crowd all chanting yes. This allows Orton to still get a rematch but also allows Batista to say he was screwed as he wasnt pinned IMO.
Orton deserves to retain the title. He's been excellent.
I love you Orton <3
I love you Orton <3
I think they could have gotten away with Batista winning the rumble if they'd brought him back without advertising it at all. In the past this is what they would have done. I think they did this with Edge a few years ago too.
Instead they felt the need to try and use his return to sell the PPV, which is weird because for me The Royal Rumble is one of those events that just kind of sells itself, so I doubt they really needed to use Batista in that way. Generally I don't follow WWE and just pick up around the Royal Rumble and follow it through to WM each year....other than that I basically just follow this thread and a few weirdos who tweet about wrestling all the bleeding time on my twitter feed. This year, because of the way they advertised Batista (even on normal Sky programming it was cropping up in ad breaks all the time), as you said, there's no way he wasn't winning it, and, as you said, there's no way people were going to respond well to that.
You think "ok, so they were more interested in selling the PPV than making it a good watch" very cynical but not necessarily a feck up...but then what's happened since hasn't turned Batista into a heel, it's turned him into a non entity. He had to mither around for a month after the Rumble not fueding with anyone interesting or relevant...andd now he mithers around for another month while all the focus is on Brian's battle with HHH and Orton. He may as well not be there. For that to happen to someone penned in to main event WWE's biggest PPV, either plans have changed drastically or it is, in itself, a monumental feck up.
People can point to Punk walking out, but he wasn't directly involved in the title picture as far as I can gather, so it would be interesting to know what actually happenedand what the original plan was.
Also, as MoneyMay said, if Brian not being in the Rumble was an Authority holding him back work and planned all along to lead where it has, then Mysterio surely wouldn't have come out at 30...it would have been Bray Wyatt, or at the very least someone they actually wanted to get some heat. Mysterio being 30 was dumb.
If it is all a work, it's been incredibly poorly put together, imo. The Brian angle has worked out quite well in the end but everything around it and the way it has come together just has the feel of being a big mess.
They also ruined Kane - he should have been the mole inside the authority for Team Hell No. Would have worked perfectly. Instead we have a weird looking corporate Kane wrestling matches nobody wants to see in trousers. Kane should have been responsible for egging on HHH to face Bryan and to put the stip on the line. Kane could have been used much better and it would have been a very smart twist to make Bryan the guy after the initial screw job at Summerslam by HHH.
The worst thing about Kane is they actually call him "Corporate Kane". For feck sake......
There was plenty wrong with the authority angle, I think most would agree with that.
Same way as I think most would agree that the mania main event and card now looks pretty good.
Disagree on anyone saying Batista role is pointless in the main event though. The guy is legitimately disliked and getting booed and whether the perception is right or wrong, plenty of people have brought the rumour he is going to win at Mania. No one else can fulfil the role he has as being the most hated guy in the company going into that match. Orton's not really managed that kind of reaction in the last six months(and his work has been good) and HHH has only just managed to get those type of reactions in the last couple of weeks.
Same way as I think most would agree that the mania main event and card now looks pretty good.
Disagree on anyone saying Batista role is pointless in the main event though. The guy is legitimately disliked and getting booed and whether the perception is right or wrong, plenty of people have brought the rumour he is going to win at Mania. No one else can fulfil the role he has as being the most hated guy in the company going into that match. Orton's not really managed that kind of reaction in the last six months(and his work has been good) and HHH has only just managed to get those type of reactions in the last couple of weeks.
Agree with @noodlehair
It looks like the WWE are setting up a feud between Kane and The Shield... Anybody think that Kane will be partnered up with another two wrestlers and destroy The Shield? I don't think they'll have two triple threat matches on the same night.
It looks like the WWE are setting up a feud between Kane and The Shield... Anybody think that Kane will be partnered up with another two wrestlers and destroy The Shield? I don't think they'll have two triple threat matches on the same night.
The Authority storyline has been superb.
Superb like The Walking Dead is superb in character development..... ¬¬
Kane and Wyatts maybe? Though I think Wyatts vs Usos would be a good tag title match to have with Usos retaining just about.
Batistas role is fluked though. Orton hasnt had as much as a reaction as he should have cos they havent booked him as a strong heel champion. Its like they cant do a top heel that is hated, they are all wussy weak escape through cheating heels. There isnt one dastardly dick type, oddly kinda like Bully Rays character in TNA.
Kane and Wyatts maybe? Though I think Wyatts vs Usos would be a good tag title match to have with Usos retaining just about.
Batistas role is fluked though. Orton hasnt had as much as a reaction as he should have cos they havent booked him as a strong heel champion. Its like they cant do a top heel that is hated, they are all wussy weak escape through cheating heels. There isnt one dastardly dick type, oddly kinda like Bully Rays character in TNA.