Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

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Skywarden said:
Ask yourself: Will they break news before the Spanish outlets, or anyone else for that matter? Most likely not.
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Good point. My guess is they're willing to stick their neck out there. Spanish outlets wont say anything until they know for certain.
 
He's more of a Pirlo than a Xavi... the thing about Thiago is that he's quite a unique player. He won't just fit into being your archetypal deep-lying midfielder who just seeks to set the tempo or a traditional number 10.. I think one of the problems he faces is that his style of play doesn't really fit into the Barcelona style. In most of his appearances for Barca he's having to play within himself and look to do the safe things with the ball with the occasional flourish... the only three players who can play their natural game within their set up is Xavi, Messi and Iniesta... everyone else is dictated to and limited in some respects by them.

To bring the best out of him he really does need to be given the main responsibilities of dictating the play of the side in a style he sees fit and play at his own pace with the freedom to get forward and score goals, which is a tad more direct than what the current Barca side permits. I don't think anyone can predict what sort of player or what level of player he can become as he possesses alot of attributes for a variety of positions... all I know is that a physically mature Thiago with plenty of match experience can become one of the world's stand out midfielders once he settles into a position and we should do what we can to sign him.

IMO I think he could be a technically gifted box to box midfielder, a guy who can dictate play from deeper areas and also make breaking runs from midfield and score a fair few goals, perhaps a mixture of the young and old Scholes. He reminds me also of Gundogan, very quick feet and alot of flair for a central midfield player but hopefully also capable of being positionally disciplined and likes to make a tackle.
 
Xavi isn't actually a sitting, deep player. He gets forward and Busquets or Alonso do that job. And like him, so does Thiago. Thiago plays it less safe, chooses more flashy options and has a lot more flair but he's still the one I'd liken him to most
 
Here's more news:
United set to sign Strootman, Thiago and Garay
Manchester United are expected to complete the signings of Kevin Strootman, Thiago Alcântara and Ezequiel Garay. United have been in very positive negotiations to bring the players in.

Talks with PSV to bring Kevin Strootman are at an advanced stage and United have made substantial progression for the Dutch International, with a move imminent. A deal in the region of £15m for the Dutch Under-21 Captain is close, with United, PSV and Strootman all happy with what's on the table and the announcement of the deal expected very soon.

United have also agreed personal terms with Thiago, with the club offering the player a 5-year deal, and willing to triple his current wages offering him a package of £5m per annum. Barcelona are trying to convince Thiago to stay, with the promise of more first team football. He had been told to be patient, however, the advice has fallen on deaf ears and the Spanish champions are looking to negotiate a first refusal option in the agreement should United ever decide to sell him. United will most likely reject this in the final agreement and have met the buy-out clause for the Spaniard and will this week expect to conclude a deal worth £15m rising to £17m. United have also promised Thiago that he will be an integral part of the first team, prompting him, his father Manzinho and agent Pere Guardiola to conclude the deal.

United and Benfica endorsed a 'gentleman's agreement' earlier in the year that would allow the Argentinian defender, Garay to join United in a deal worth £17m. Benfica's recent signing from Estoril, 26 year-old Canadian defender Steven Vitória is seen as the direct replacement for the Argentine defender.

Chief Scout Jim Lawlor and retired Martin Ferguson, brother of Sir Alex Ferguson, have watched all three players several times. These players were targets of Ferguson and David Moyes cosigning his predecessor will sanction their acquisitions.

Moyes is also expected to return from his holiday this week. His first task will be to clarify Wayne Rooney's United future ensuring the player stays, and reassuring him of his importance to the first team.

As a new era begins at Old Trafford, Moyes will look to put his stamp on the team. With a tough start to the season, the addition of the aggressive and imposing figure of Kevin Strootman, the speed, vision and eye for goal of Thiago and the combative nature and defensive assurances of Garay, will ensure that Moyes has the right players to begin United's title defense.2 minutes ago



http://sulia.com/channel/manchester-united/f/d154fa96-788c-4b6a-b2d0-3fe9f8665993/
 
I'm not familiar with that Sulia site, but as far as I can see that's just another random ITK Joe Bloggs (no pun intended) writing that, pretty much the same as a Twitter source, yeah?
 
One man's take on the Alcantara situation...


http://www.footandball.net/an-analy...aka-why-hes-probably-going-to-manchester/5014

An analysis of Thiago Alcantara’s situation (By a Barca Fan)
3
June 22, 2013 by Rami El Chamaa



There are so many layers of complexion in this situation, so I hope I’ll not ramble on for too long.

Man United have contacted the entourage of Thiago. They offer him a huge pay rise (Xavi-Iniesta salary) and to be starter from day one. [as]
If that’s true, you can hardly blame the lad. The World Cup is right around the corner, and becoming a starter at United severely increase his chances of a (starting) spot and/or higher involvement in the tournament. Further, Thiago has never struck me as a player that’s in it for the money, but such an extreme wage bump while playing for United would be hard for any player to turn down.

The thing is, you can hardly blame Thiago for wanting to leave Barcelona. We as fans expect our players to have 100% loyalty towards our club while we often forget that the club needs to show loyalty the other way around too. This is where Barcelona have failed under Rosell.

Let’s just start with his playing time. Look at any matchthread from /r/barca and you’ll see how people couldn’t believe that he started on the bench again. Xavi had fitness problems for large parts of the season but he still played so much even though he wasn’t anywhere near top of his game. Granted, Thiago has had the occasional lapse in concentration which has led to a few balls lost in midfield (huge no-no for Barcelona).

However, we won the season with fecking 100 points. Pep never reached 100 points because he was much more focused on playing the youngsters. Tito was showing signs of an OK rotation of the squad before his cancer “struck” but then it went down hill. Barcelona should never care about setting records but playing younger players in other to get them match experience.

In other words, at a sporting level Barcelona did not reward Thiago talents with adequate playing time. But it is much more interesting when we look at management issue

The problem with Thiago is that the club has grossly mismanaged his contract. Under Rosell, we have had our fair share of contractual problems:

Keita leaving on a free.
Youth players leaving.
Youth players banned from playing due to errors in the contractual process.
Abidal’s contract not being extended.
Tello’s release clause stands at a mere 10M which is way too little for such a talented player.
Muniesa leaves on a free due to the club not wanting to extend his contract. Should have had a longer contract and atleast made 4-5M on his sale if he wasn’t good enough.
The worst offense here is Thiago’s escape clause of 18M. You’re talking about one of the most talented creative midfielders in the world. 18M is a scoop any day in the week. Tito said he didn’t know anything about it. Rosell has kept his mouth shut. Either that’s extreme incompetence or it’s just not true. If they knew about it, it’s bad business from Rosell. Tito shouldn’t play players based on contractual clauses but he should be aware of them and Rosell should never have let it been so low.

You might have noticed how we are starting to see rumors of Mata joining Barcelona as soon as the Thiago rumors started to increase. This is by no means a coincidence – Rosell has leaked the “interest” in Mata in order to deflect attention from the Thiago case. Who honestly believes Chelsea would let him go?

The whole PR spin is working though. Fans are starting to turn on Thiago – “Club is bigger than one player etc.” which is all true. But the fault doesn’t lie with Thiago. It lies with the club. Tito for not playing such a talented player enough and Rosell for fecking up his contract. Rosell is just doing his best to deflect blame since we might have elections right around the corner and he isn’t exactly that popular.

Meanwhile, Marca are reporting Zubizaretta has contacted Thiago in order convince him into staying. A new contract ‘may’ have been offered. (@Youngcules)

So it seems like they’re trying to fix the situation in the last seconds. Hopefully he’ll take it, as I want him to stay. We can’t even find an adequate replacement for twice what were going to get for him. And people who will inevitably point at Sergi Roberto etc from La Masia is kidding themselves. Thiago is much more talented and ready now.

TL;DR; Club mismanaged both Thiago playing time and his contract. Part of a bigger problem with Rosell and management. Fans expect loyalty from Thiago but the club isn’t offering any towards Thiago.

This article was written by Bob_Swarleymann and appeared first on /r/soccer.

(Thanks to @Youngcules @euleri and @Barcastuff for insights/sources etc).



Read more: http://www.footandball.net/an-analy...obably-going-to-manchester/5014#ixzz2X36J6QrP
 
Sir A1ex said:
I'm not familiar with that Sulia site, but as far as I can see that's just another random ITK Joe Bloggs (no pun intended) writing that, pretty much the same as a Twitter source, yeah?
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Duncan Castles is on there too. Guillem Balague is on there two. Christ! You lot are overly skeptical. Do you enjoy life?
 
Platato said:
Duncan Castles is on there too. Guillem Balague is on there two. Christ! You lot are overly skeptical. Do you enjoy life?
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I'm sure those guys are on twitter too, but that doesn't make every other twitter used a reliable source does it? (Hell, it's not even like more than about half of what those two predict actually happens!)

I'm just trying to clarify what that site is / how it works, in order to gauge how relevant the article is.
 
Platato said:
Duncan Castles is on there too. Guillem Balague is on there two. Christ! You lot are overly skeptical. Do you enjoy life?
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Sulia is the worst of the worst. They get paid per click on the site so naturally they just lap up whatever will get them page views.
 
Sir A1ex said:
I'm sure those guys are on twitter too, but that doesn't make every other twitter used a reliable source does it? (Hell, it's not even like more than about half of what those two predict actually happens!)

I'm just trying to clarify what that site is / how it works, in order to gauge how relevant the article is.
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No but applying sweeping generalisation is a grave mistake. I am probably less familiar with these sites than you are. I am not good with technology but I have seen enough of it to know there's some good with the bad. Twitter is very strange but the idea still applies (good with the bad). We all know the best thing to do is to wait for official confirmation. How that makes everything before that unreasonable is quite strange. The problem is fans think these guys are 100% right 100% of the time. That's impossible.

WR said:
Sulia is the worst of the worst. They get paid per click on the site so naturally they just lap up whatever will get them page views.
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And? If their view is correct, what does it matter? Get more money for having good reputation with news isn't a bad deal is it?
 
Ekeke said:
Xavi isn't actually a sitting, deep player. He gets forward and Busquets or Alonso do that job. And like him, so does Thiago. Thiago plays it less safe, chooses more flashy options and has a lot more flair but he's still the one I'd liken him to most
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Xavi's not a number 4, so I agree there but Xavi is alot more conservative. He prefers to kill you slowly and pass you to death and ensure his team has the control of the game even if he's not at the heart of creating the chances. In addition to this Xavi is quite limited in some respects in that he can't really beat loads of players or score rockets off either foot etc so it's meant he has fine tuned his game to making the best of what he does possess, a great first touch, quality passing technique, great understanding of the game in terms of positional sense and appreciation of how to support his team mates and where they're located on the pitch, great vision and fantastic stamina. There's a reason why alot of people were slow to see the hype about Xavi.. he didn't really grab people's attention even though he was to keen eyed observers - totally stamping his authority on the game, whereas someone like Pirlo is a tad more obvious in the way he goes about it.

With someone of Thiago's natural talent he's naturally going to want to express and indulge the more show-boaty side of his game. I'd argue Thiago is more of a Federer than a Nadal in terms of his approach, whereas Xavi's elegance masks the very efficient machine-like nature of his game. He'd have fitted in very well in that Rijkaard era and I also wish he'd have picked Brazil at International level as he's exactly the sort of midfielder they could do with right now.

Anyway lets not get too excited, he's a) not going to sign for us and b) might turn out to be the Brazillian/Italian/Spanish answer to Owen Hargreaves.
 
Raees How dare you. You come in here and tell us not to get excited!!!!!!
 
Yeah. I think we will hear something tomorrow.
 
My confidence is increasing again. Barca have truly fecked themselves on this. Am actually impressed with the speed of this saga. We seem to have a good hold of the situation. More and more papers are reporting that he's coming to united.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
I remember Sid Lowe saying on the Guardian podcast that Spanish release clauses are pretty much pointless for a foreign club. They really are in place to protect one Spanish club from another. Both of you seem knowledgeable on the Spanish game so not sure who to believe.

Ofcourse, a lot depends on what is actually in Thiago's contract. Perhaps he has a clause that frees him up for any club.
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If he said it prior to the end of August last year that would be no surprise. When Bayern Munich went after Martinez and Athletic said they'd fight every step no one was quite sure how it would work - indeed even now, some sports law firms still think that IVA (VAT) should have been applied.

As I've said before, it's very rare for a selling club to actually force the issue once the release clause has been met, so there's not much case law and as far as I know no foreign purchases (prior to Martinez) since the current regulations have been in use.

The LNFP (Spanish league clubs association) had to take advice about how to marry their release clause to a FIFA ruling and get tax office approval of the interpretation. In the Martinez case, no income tax was due because Munich paid the release fee with his permission rather than on his behalf. They also got a ruling that no IVA was due as no goods or services were being exchanged - instead it was an indemnity for the loss of a service on which IVA would not be levied, ie: a human being who was going to be paid wages.

Messy and fun for the lawyers and undignified for the player and the clubs. But doable, if you have to.
 
That's what he tweeted De Gea, so I'll go with tomorrow too.
 
"We want the finest players available to humanity, and we want them here, and we want them now."
 
Regarding buy-out clauses:
Rummenigge explained that the buy-out clause in Martinez's deal stipulates he can only leave Bilbao for a fixed sum of 40 million euros ($49.8 million, £31.5 million).
"It's a very complicated clause, so the whole subject would cause certain legal and tax problems," added the Bayern chairman.
The Bayern boss said Athletic Bilbao were showing little cooperation, but added: "We're working on it and I hope we can announce a deal by the end of August. But it's not entirely easy."
Due to the fact he's prepared to forego a great deal of money in return for the five-year contract we intend him to sign here, he's indirectly contributing to the transfer fee," added Rummenigge.
"It definitely means the total investment would be significantly reduced."
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AND:
Spain's buyout clauses have often been set up as a deterrent -- symbolic, gigantic figures to warn off suitors. Sergio Busquets has just renewed his deal with Barcelona for example and his buyout clause is now €150M ($204M). But they do also have a practical use. They form part of a legal framework and also a gentleman's agreement between clubs. Which is why the price is not always the price. Because clubs are not always gentlemanly about it.
Under the terms of that basic agreement, clubs accepted that another club which paid the buyout clause could sign a player without resistance. If it's €45M, you pay €45M and you take your player, no mess and no fuss. It is, essentially, a price set at which you say you will sell.
But you don't necessarily have to sell at that price; that agreement has a legal foundation that is a little different. At an informal level, the modus operandi has been altered since Real Madrid walked off with Luis Figo for the symbolic but just about manageable figure of 10,000M pesetas. The buyout clause remains, but the application of it is different.
Now most clubs are saying: this is the buyout clause, sure, but if you make a hostile bid, a bid that we do not welcome, we will force you to apply the clause legally. And when you apply the law legally, that is a different issue. When you apply the law legally, it is a different price.
That means one of two things, both of which increase the price. Firstly, it can mean adding the VAT at 18 percent. In the past, clubs have agreed to include VAT in the invoice for a player's transfer (which of course can be claimed back from the state). Now, if the bid is hostile, they will not. In other words, the buying club will have to pay the clause plus the 18 percent. So, Aguero's price rises from €45M to €53.1M ($72M).
The other option is for a club to simply refuse to sell -- until, that is, it is forced to. That's where the legal buyout clause kicks in, Decreto Real 1006/1985. But that decree is exactly what it says it is: a buyout clause. A player (not the club) deposits the money, the value of the buyout clause, at the Spanish league and unilaterally breaks his contract. That money, of course, would be given to him by the buying club in order to buy himself out. The problem is that as soon as that money hits his account it counts as income -- even if it is then deposited elsewhere. And so it is liable to taxation at 44 percent. In other words, the €45M is the amount left after taxation. That is to say that Aguero's overall cost is €80.2M ($109M).
The other factor that's significant is that the buyout clause is a Spanish agreement. When it comes to international transfers -- to bids from aboard like the one supposedly from Chelsea -- it is irrelevant. Except as a symbolic price, a reference point from which you can negotiate.
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