Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich
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I absolutely have my doubts.
I'd also wouldn't like us to sign someone that'll result in us having to continuously play Kagawa out of position.
I need more rumours from papers and twitter to get all excited 
That's not bad either and if Welbeck can improve on his finishing the link up between him and Kagawa could be great to watch
Me niether and I have the same doubts.
All I and Jake were doing is suggesting a viable formation if that hypothetical situation were to arise - if we signed Thiago for a midfield three.
That's why I'm personally not too arsed about this transfer in the short term, but what Fergus said is absolutely true. Basically it would be an opportunity we shouldn't pass up, he's ridiculously talented and with our record in bringing players on he could turn out exceptional.
So yeah, two minds really.
Doesn't seem the type of player Moyes would go for.
I have always say thats a big if, that is, from a very poor finisher to a good finisher, thats a big jump out of nowhere. But saying that I do hope he could improve and turn out to be a decent finisher (10-15 goals a season is the best he should be aiming at).
If he has a clause in his contract that means Barcelona have no choice but to accept a (comparitively meagre) bid, would Madrid not go for him? It sounds like they're about to embark upon one of their "sell over half the squad and buy replacements" summers, and he ticks a lot of boxes. Young, extremely talented, Spanish, already has star quality and would get one over on Barcelona.
would be a brilliant signing hope its true.
This, if I was an Everton fan I'd be looking at this thread and thinking "cnuts".
Moyes tried to sign Banega and Moutinho, and was also quite fond of Arteta.
Well you surely must have thought the same thing when Cleverely came into the squad last season? If he can play there, then I dont see why Thiago cant play there. And Thiago is actually a playmaker. That might take a load of Carrick too, I mean he doesnt have to stop making plays from deep but it will be like having Scholes next to him, in the sense that he will have a better playmaker than either Cleverley or Anderson.
I still disagree with you lads. I think he is more than capable of playing in CM. I feel that is the position he can really flourish in especially when you have someone as good as Kagawa playing in front of him. He can also fill in for the CAM role but I think he is more versatile than many people think. He is not a strict CAM per se.
And who exactly is the type of player Moyes goes for?
Guys if a 40 year old giggs and 37 year old scholes can play in a two man midfield next to carrick am sure he can play there as well. He cant be worse defensively than cleverley either and his dribbling skills will more than make up for his defensive deficiencies in midfield. There is more than one way to hold on to the ball.
I'm sure people think Moyes won't have done any scouting or have any knowledge of foreign leagues. We're going to end up with Lee Cattermole.
I addressed the first part here, Cleverley and Carrick is okay defensively but it's still relatively weak. I wouldn't look to a Cleverley-Carrick midfield as a benchmark the way you are doing.
On your second point about having another playmaker next to him.. Not sure why that is particularly necessary. You don't need to fill your team with playmakers and ignore other facets to the game, such as being secure out of possession. More importantly you're forgetting Kagawa..
If we go for a Thiago-Carrick midfield then as Fergus, KC, Brightonian etc have pointed out it would free up Kagawa to play centrally. So you don't have two playmakers in there, you have three.
True.Moyes will have final say but we've already got targets identified it's whether we'll get them.
I think nani will go and now rooney too. Would love to see Bale here, Fellaini too would be a very good signing for us. There is Talk of Luke shaw left back at Southampton coming - this for me would be good as Evra cannot defend and is not getting any younger.
A fabregas, gundogan or thiago would be super but where would this leave Kagawa.
I think nani will go and now rooney too. Would love to see Bale here, Fellaini too would be a very good signing for us. There is Talk of Luke shaw left back at Southampton coming - this for me would be good as Evra cannot defend and is not getting any younger.
A fabregas, gundogan or thiago would be super but where would this leave Kagawa.
Well have to see how he can get along in that role. My point is that Barca don't play the same formation. In Barca's formation he is played most of the time alongside Xavi and Song/Mascherano.
If we play like this for example:
--------Jones/or a real DM----------
------Alcantara--------Carrick-------
--------------Kagawa--------------
-------RvP------------Rooney/Nani/Hernandez
with Rafael and Evra providing width on the flank, then yes I can see him in his natural position being besides Carrick.
But our midfield was always likely to be overrun so that's not a good for argument.
He will be an improvement over them both in CM so it wont be overrun that badly if at all. Secondly, even if he is a better AM than CM, we will be getting a player who can potentially be one of the best AMs in the future for 18m which is a very good deal.
Could turn out to be another anderson though.
Arteta.
Anyone can play there, but how regularly effective are they there is the issue.
I don't think any of our pairings are effective against top sides who mostly play 3 in midfield anyway. If we are stuck in a 4-4-2 i don't think it matters who we sign really, they will still be outnumbered and therefore conceding possession as we have seen in some recent big games.
I am hoping for a change to a 3 man midfield of some description to make us more competitive in europe. If we are moving towards a 3 then in my view we need another defensively competent CM, rather than an AM or playmaker. Someone next to carrick means we can play Kagawa or Rooney ahead of them, negating the need for another playmaker.
4-2-3-1 would be my choice. Bayern have Martinez and Schweinsteiger providing the security in front of the CB's, so the 4 attackers can move freely as they see fit.
If we sign a playmaker as opposed to a competent all round CM, then we are pretty screwed if Carrick gets injured. I think it's asking for trouble to leave ourselves with only one competent defender within our midfield. We have plenty of creativity further forward, but no other option for Carrick's role.
Sign a top all round CM and that's the only signing we need imo. Any other route leaves midfield issues unaddressed. We concede possession against top sides, but i believe that is because our centre halves and Carrick are the only naturally defensive minded players in our squad. Lose Carrick and Jones will be in there, lose anyone else and we're far more suitably covered. Seems obvious to me where our priorities should lie.
Could be another Veron. No doubting his class, but he didn't produce what we knew he was capable of.
This puts a question mark over any such mid we buy in my view. Not saying they can't ever be a success, of course they can, but only pointing out that there is far more risk involved. Which is probably why Saf was reluctant after similar purchases in the past failed to produce.
He would be cheaper than Veron and will have time on his side. I also feel that Veron will do a lot better in our current side compared to the one he walked into.
IMO our team seriously lacks dribblers, particularly in the middle of the park. If we do sign thaigo, it would add a whole new dimension to our attack while making us exciting to watch.
Plus I feel it is more easier and cheaper to find defensively stable midfielders than players like thiago so we shouldnt pass this opportunity. At worst, him and kagawa can rotate the AM position.
Really? Why haven't we found one then? That's all we need in my view, an Alonso or a Moutinho type. Both of those are still creative players, but work hard and are competent defensively. How many of those are there about really?
I bet i could name you far more players like Thiago than you could name like Alonso or Carrick. I think our problem is when good teams have the ball, we struggle to get it back. Thiago next to Carrick is not going to help that.
Barca have a far better midfield than we have, better dribblers and they keep the ball far better. But it didn't stop them getting bummed because they didn't have enough competent defensive players when they lost the ball. Pique, Bartra and Busquets, and the rest were rudderless attack minded players doing a sorely inadequate defensive job.
Got to strike a proper balance between attack and defence. How can we have that type of balance with only Carrick on the defensive side out of our whole midfield? thiago is a talent, but i just think we have far more pressing needs than a midfield playmaker personally.
Okay, I think we are getting a bit mixed up here. I was talking about midfield players who are defensively competent. They dont need to be as creative as alonso as their main job will be to add some steal to the midfield and win the ball back and lay it off simply.
Using us as an example really doesnt work well, as we havent signed a midfielder in six years now, creative or otherwise. As to examples of such players from the epl.
Bender.
Gundogan.
Schweighsteiger.
Martinez.
Gustavo.
Busquest.
Song.
Mascherano.
Khedira.
Alonso.
Modric.
Thats eleven just from the UCL semi-finalists with modric being the debatable one. Have included him in there as he can easily perform a similar role to arteta as well as playmake if needed from an advance position.
You cant use barca as an example as they have "bum-rushed" us twice in two finals using their midfielders. Besides struggling to get the ball, our team seems to lose it if someone presses us. If we have a player of thiago's ilk in midfield he will be able to retain ball much better and use his dribbling to great effect rather than just lose it like we are used to.
Plus Thiago's a very good ball-winner. Just because Barca have a lot of players who are too offensively-minded for their position, doesn't mean he is one.
It would leave him playing ahead of a much better midfield than he currently does.
Kagawa is a number 10, and at his best a very advanced one. Fabregas (how Arsenal played him, not how Barca play him), Gundogan and Thiago are all 100% central midfielders. Each of them would play alongside Carrick, behind Kagawa.
Thaigo has never played a similar role to that before, very strange that you are so certain he could do it. Anything to back it up?
The poster who has seen the most of Thiago (FCBarca) has said it wouldn't get the best out of him.
Thaigo has never played a similar role to that before, very strange that you are so certain he could do it. Anything to back it up?
The poster who has seen the most of Thiago (FCBarca) has said it wouldn't get the best out of him.
When he says "beside Carrick" are you picturing him deep next to Carrick in some sort of holding role?
I took it as "in a midfield 2" with someone like Kagawa ahead of him. I think he'd be bloody brilliant in that role. Like Anderson with none of the stamina issues and better technical skills.
Yeah in a midfield two Pexbo, a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1
He'd be good going forward no question, everyone has said that. But defensively it's still lightweight and even against a side like Spurs with a Sandro-Dembele midfield I think it would get overrun.
He'd be good going forward no question, everyone has said that. But defensively it's still lightweight and even against a side like Spurs with a Sandro-Dembele midfield I think it would get overrun.
Difficult to say really. I've always been if the opinion that better footballers play better football and win football matches. I think there'd be enough graft in the team to cope with the physical side.
Based on what we have currently, and what we've seen from our midfield in the better part of the past decade, it's hard for me to take anyone seriously who believes this guy couldn't fit straight in. Whatever formation/combination/permutation of midfielders we play.
Do it Moyes, if only just to make me happy.
I'd add at least a goalkeeper.
I'd agree with this.
Maybe against the big teams in the knockout stages of CL or in a one off game such as the final, you need to make sure your tactics are spot on. But for the majority of the games, better players win you games.
That's definitely been our advantage over the other teams in the league in the last few years. The fact we've got such a strong squad, and players in the squad who are willing to play in many different positions (Giggs, Welbeck, Rooney, Valencia, Jones and so on) is testament to that.
It might not always look 'solid' and 'symmetrical' on paper, but better players win you games over the course of the season. I would only disagree for one off tactical encounters.
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