Theresa May

Her comments on the SNP left me gobsmacked. Has she no self awareness or sense of irony?

She said:

Theresa May said "facts and logic" are on the side of the case against independence during her speech to the Scottish Conservative party conference in Glasgow on Friday.
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It's a shame she can't apply the same facts and logic to Brexit.

"The fundamental strengths of our union, and the benefits it brings to all of its constituent parts, are clear."
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She was talking about the UK of course, these same facts and logic don't apply to the EU.

But we all know that the SNP will never stop twisting the truth and distorting reality in their effort to denigrate our United Kingdom and further their obsession of independence.
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That sounds awfully familiar.

"It is their single purpose in political life."
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The SNP's single purpose is to act in the interest of Scotland. Scotland in the EU and out of the UK is a much stronger position than in the UK and out of the EU. There will be a flood of businesses moving North if it happens.

We need to be equally determined to ensure that the truth about our United Kingdom is heard loudly and clearly.
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It's a shame she didn't have the same attitude towards the EU.

As Britain leaves the European Union and we forge a new role for ourselves in the world, the strength and stability of our Union will become even more important.
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"Leaving a Union is a great move but it's important you don't leave a Union because that would be a terrible move".



Nicola Sturgeon frightens the life out of May (what little life there is anyway). She's a strong headed politician with clear values and direction (whether you agree with them or not).
 
Whatever you think about May, I tend to agree with the general gist of her point about the SNP. The dust had barely settled on the Scottish referendum before they were floating the idea of another referendum if certain demands weren't met.
They want independence and they'll use whatever excuse they can to get it.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Whatever you think about May, I tend to agree with the general gist of her point about the SNP. The dust had barely settled on the Scottish referendum before they were floating the idea of another referendum if certain demands weren't met.
They want independence and they'll use whatever excuse they can to get it.
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Once in a generation chance...
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Whatever you think about May, I tend to agree with the general gist of her point about the SNP. The dust had barely settled on the Scottish referendum before they were floating the idea of another referendum if certain demands weren't met.
They want independence and they'll use whatever excuse they can to get it.
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It's a bit of an extraordinary situation, no? The majority voted to stay in the U.K. and the majority voted to stay in the EU. They didn't know it was mutually exclusive at the time. If I was Scottish, I'd pick the EU over the UK without a second thought. I also wouldn't care less if that didn't suit the UK just as the UK couldn't care less if Brexit is destructive to the EU.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Whatever you think about May, I tend to agree with the general gist of her point about the SNP. The dust had barely settled on the Scottish referendum before they were floating the idea of another referendum if certain demands weren't met.
They want independence and they'll use whatever excuse they can to get it.
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Like the things they were promised?
 
Pexbo said:
It's a bit of an extraordinary situation, no? The majority voted to stay in the U.K. and the majority voted to stay in the EU. They didn't know it was mutually exclusive at the time. If I was Scottish, I'd pick the EU over the UK without a second thought. I also wouldn't care less if that didn't suit the UK just as the UK couldn't care less if Brexit is destructive to the EU.
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Cameron had said there would be a referendum if he couldn't get a good deal for the UK.it was one of the pre-election pledges. Whether you blame Cameron or the eu for the failure of said deal, the UK 's continued eu membership was never certain. The Scottish voters and the snp were well aware of that.
The SNP want independence, they have a great excuse for it now, but any excuse will do.
 
Pexbo said:
Nicola Sturgeon frightens the life out of May (what little life there is anyway). She's a strong headed politician with clear values and direction (whether you agree with them or not).
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I tend to disagree with you a bit there. She.'s not frightened of her, she's just sick of every single utterance from Sturgeon revolving around a threat to have another independence referendum. May's right...she's obsessive about it. People are really getting sick of listening to Sturgeon constantly wittering about independence at every opportunity.
 
Pexbo said:
It's a bit of an extraordinary situation, no? The majority voted to stay in the U.K. and the majority voted to stay in the EU. They didn't know it was mutually exclusive at the time. If I was Scottish, I'd pick the EU over the UK without a second thought. I also wouldn't care less if that didn't suit the UK just as the UK couldn't care less if Brexit is destructive to the EU.
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Problematic though isn't it?

Let's say you are Scottish and you want the right to work abroad so obviously the EU is the place to be. Yet if you are Scottish and you work outside of Scotland the chances are you work in the UK.

Same goes for a free trade area. Do you want to be in the biggest or the one you sell and buy the most from?

What currency do you use when you leave?

Is it even possible for Scotland to stay in the EU when the UK leaves or do you end up outside of both?

Sturgeon keeps banging on about austerity but Scotland is running a 10% deficit and gains from the UK under the Butler formula, balancing the budget would see the mother of all spending cuts. Giveaway control is going to be a poor slogan on the big blue bus.
 
Red Defence said:
I tend to disagree with you a bit there. She.'s not frightened of her, she's just sick of every single utterance from Sturgeon revolving around a threat to have another independence referendum. May's right...she's obsessive about it. People are really getting sick of listening to Sturgeon constantly wittering about independence at every opportunity.
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It honestly feels like it's the Tories bringing up the independence debate every chance they get at this stage. It's the only policy of the Ruth Davidson party.
 
Pexbo said:
Her comments on the SNP left me gobsmacked. Has she no self awareness or sense of irony?

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Adisa said:
Brexiters complaining about independence. :wenger:
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I don't see a contradiction or a sense of irony.

At the heart of the Brexit argument is the belief in a strong, sovereign nation state able to act independently of a supranational body. Scotland is not a nation state and Britain is not a supranational body - Britain is a well established, unitary nation state with centuries of history as such and Scotland is a mere region of this nation state.
 
rednev said:
I don't see a contradiction or a sense of irony.

At the heart of the Brexit argument is the belief in a strong, sovereign nation state able to act independently of a supranational body. Scotland is not a nation state and Britain is not a supranational body - Britain is a well established, unitary nation state with centuries of history as such and Scotland is a mere region of this nation state.
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You are technically correct but what are you trying to prove with your statement? Yes the situation is somewhat different to Brexit geopolitically, but comparisons can definitely be made between the two. Smaller place leaving a bigger place it disagrees with. That's why May's statements are stupid.
 
altodevil86 said:
You are technically correct but what are you trying to prove with your statement? Yes the situation is somewhat different to Brexit geopolitically, but comparisons can definitely be made between the two. Smaller place leaving a bigger place it disagrees with. That's why May's statements are stupid.
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They are two completely different situations. What if Cornwall wanted independence? Or the City of London? Would May then also have to refrain from objecting or face contradicting herself? The point is total nonsense.
 
rednev said:
They are two completely different situations. What if Cornwall wanted independence? Or the City of London? Would May then also have to refrain from objecting or face contradicting herself? The point is total nonsense.
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Are you really arguing that Cornwall, and especially London, are in anyway comparable to Scotland in this situation? There is also, particularly in the case of Scotland and England, similarities in the Union of the Crowns and the EUs core principles.
 
Red Defence said:
Probably cos she's sick of Surgeon wittering on about it too so she's opposing it with the same obsessiveness.
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The UK government made a series of promises that were critical, and possibly decisive, in the referendum. There has also been a more recent referendum that changed the constitutional status of the UK (remaining in the EU was a big part of the "better together" campaign) which is utterly contrary to the vast majority of Scottish opinion. Furthermore, the wittering on about it is a direct response to May's complete refusal to debate or discuss the terms of leaving the EU unless she's, literally, taken to court.
 
Meanwhile in caring, sharing Brexitland...

Bereavement Benefit cut 'to help people readjust to single-parent life':
https://www.theguardian.com/society...elp-people-readjust-to-life-as-single-parents

'During the debate Harrington also addressed the issue of support for people with funding funerals. He said the government would not tell people what sort of funerals were right, but highlight a “number of low-cost alternative options” that were emerging, including direct crematoriums which do not provide a funeral service.'
 
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Fingeredmouse said:
The UK government made a series of promises that were critical, and possibly decisive, in the referendum. There has also been a more recent referendum that changed the constitutional status of the UK (remaining in the EU was a big part of the "better together" campaign) which is utterly contrary to the vast majority of Scottish opinion. Furthermore, the wittering on about it is a direct response to May's complete refusal to debate or discuss the terms of leaving the EU unless she's, literally, taken to court.
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Discussing the terms of leaving the EU would be quite difficult because they haven't been negotiated yet and no-one really knows how the EU are going to approach these negotiations, much less how they will end. For May to discuss these delicate issues beforehand would mean trusting the people she talks to and I honestly don't think for one second that she trusts Sturgeon or Salmond. (just realised both their names are related to fish :D ) Most people can see why she won't trust them and I'm sure they realise this too, but as part of the UK they really should be able to be trusted to keep her confidence.

Unfortunately their divisive, nationalistic attitude to the UK whilst simultaneously trying to suck up to Brussels, prevents them from ever being trusted in such delicate discussions. For things to improve they need to address their own attitude.
 
rednev said:
They are two completely different situations. What if Cornwall wanted independence? Or the City of London? Would May then also have to refrain from objecting or face contradicting herself? The point is total nonsense.
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Neither have devolution on the scale of Scotland. The United Kingdom is generally accepted as consisting of four countries. Scotland is one of those. England is another, meaning Cornwall and London are not. Of course, if either have a desire to pursue independence then best wishes to them...they're more than entitled to go for it.
 
SteveJ said:
Meanwhile in caring, sharing Brexitland...

Bereavement Benefit cut 'to help people readjust to single-parent life':
https://www.theguardian.com/society...elp-people-readjust-to-life-as-single-parents

'During the debate Harrington also addressed the issue of support for people with funding funerals. He said the government would not tell people what sort of funerals were right, but highlight a “number of low-cost alternative options” that were emerging, including direct crematoriums which do not provide a funeral service.'
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It would seem that the DWP is caught in a web of its own justifications. On the one hand, you could make a case that such payments through to sixteen-years have become less necessary over time; yet this reasoning runs into serious issues of inconsistency, if the money is then denied to cohabiting couples. The funeral funding thing just sounds like petty cost saving.
 
Is it any wonder we all despise politicians when we have a PM who has changed her opinion on something as important as Brexit simply to take the top job. And it is everywhere. We have a PM in Australia who is supporting all sorts of things he is fundamentally against simply to be PM - just to try to keep the right wing loons in his party happy. Oddly enough trying to keep everyone happy has been a disaster. And a former Labor government suddenly changed it's mind of marriage equality to try not to piss a few floating voters (who were never going to vote for them anyway) with an openly gay minister suddenly having to back the government's permission - they looked ludicrous. The politics of flip flopping to whatever 50.1% of the focus group think is idiotic. Live or die at an election standing up for what you actually think is the right thing to do FFS.
 
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SteveJ said:
Meanwhile in caring, sharing Brexitland...

Bereavement Benefit cut 'to help people readjust to single-parent life':
https://www.theguardian.com/society...elp-people-readjust-to-life-as-single-parents

'During the debate Harrington also addressed the issue of support for people with funding funerals. He said the government would not tell people what sort of funerals were right, but highlight a “number of low-cost alternative options” that were emerging, including direct crematoriums which do not provide a funeral service.'
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Why don't they just open soap factories up and down the country and have done with it.
 
SteveJ said:
Disability benefits process is 'inherently flawed', MPs told:

As many as four out of five cases where a claimant has been denied disability benefits are overturned on appeal because of systemic failures in the initial assessment process, MPs have heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...enefits-process-is-inherently-flawed-mps-told
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No surprise.

The soul aim of the benefit system under this Tory government is to get people off benefits but not by finding work(In some cases someone disabilities might mean they can't and shouldn't work)but by simply giving up hope.
 
I'd say that this kind of deliberately flawed' policy is actually criminal in intent.
 
hobbers said:
What alternate reality is that?
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Exactly. Scotland leaving the UK to join the EU would be disastrous for it. The vast vast majority of its trade is with England, all of its largest companies rely on Scotland's open relationship with England. Were tariff, and/or regulatory barriers to be erected between the two countries there would be no reason for a large number of those companies to remain in Scotland.

Despite what Sturgeon claims, Brexit makes an independent Scotland less, not more likely.
 
Wibble said:
Is it any wonder we all despise politicians when we have a PM who has changed her opinion on something as important as Brexit simply to take the top job. And it is everywhere. We have a PM in Australia who is supporting all sorts of things he is fundamentally against simply to be PM - just to try to keep the right wing loons in his party happy. Oddly enough trying to keep everyone happy has been a disaster. And a former Labor government suddenly changed it's mind of marriage equality to try not to piss a few floating voters (who were never going to vote for them anyway) with an openly gay minister suddenly having to back the government's permission - they looked ludicrous. The politics of flip flopping to whatever 50.1% of the focus group think is idiotic. Live or die at an election standing up for what you actually think is the right thing to do FFS.
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Unless of course you happen to disagree with what they think is the right thing to do i.e. Donald Trump. Then it's back to square one.
 
Trying to keep everyone happy has not and will not ever work. People are too different in their own objectives and prejudices and we hate conforming to anything, even if non-conformist beliefs tend to all conform to the same thing...
 
ThierryHenry said:
Exactly. Scotland leaving the UK to join the EU would be disastrous for it. The vast vast majority of its trade is with England, all of its largest companies rely on Scotland's open relationship with England. Were tariff, and/or regulatory barriers to be erected between the two countries there would be no reason for a large number of those companies to remain in Scotland.

Despite what Sturgeon claims, Brexit makes an independent Scotland less, not more likely.
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An interesting article that touches on what you say and how even rhetoric of 'indyref2' is already hurting the Scottish economy.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...t?zid=307&ah=5e80419d1bc9821ebe173f4f0f060a07
 
11101 said:
Unless of course you happen to disagree with what they think is the right thing to do i.e. Donald Trump. Then it's back to square one.
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He is more poll driven that most. He designed his whole campaign around what polling told him would work. We just didn't believe there were enough stupid people in the US for him to actually win. Of course he is also mentally ill and is quite happy to pluck "facts" out of his arse and to him they obviously become true once he repeats them a few times.
 
Wibble said:
He is more poll driven that most. He designed his whole campaign around what polling told him would work. We just didn't believe there were enough stupid people in the US for him to actually win. Of course he is also mentally ill and is quite happy to pluck "facts" out of his arse and to him they obviously become true once he repeats them a few times.
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I dont see much that he's back tracked on compared to other politicians. Ridiculous as he might be he's been clear from the start on what he would do, and now he's going ahead and doing it. The exact opposite of most politicians.
 
He isn't a politician - only in America and all that. But he hasn't backtracked because he still think the bullshit he spouted to keep the Trump demographic on his side will work and other batshit crazy stuff he probably thinks will work. I don't know if he believes in much of anything apart from his own wonderfulness.
 
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