Television The Wire

Snow said:
I loathed Ziggy and I was probably supposed to but there wasn't anything to balance that hate.
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I felt sorry for him! He was a tragic character.

His dad spent almost no time on him because he was too busy with the Union and politicking. He grew up to be everyone's joke and at times he was desperate to be liked (which lead him to do stupid things to get attention), then he tried to prove that he was not the feck up he'd always been anymore (by trying to emulate what his dad had been doing for years) and got in way over his head.
 
Ziggy was a wonderfully designed character, I think. So many flaws, but every one of them extremely common around there and perfectly understandable considering his upbringing.

We "hate him" because he's incompetent, even as a lowlife. In a series with much more hateful and despicable people, that hate gives us something to think about.
 
I like Season 5 more than 2.

4 is the best though although every season except 2 is brilliant.
 
lunchforthesky said:
I like Season 5 more than 2.

4 is the best though although every season except 2 is brilliant.
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Drainy said:
I felt sorry for him! He was a tragic character.

His dad spent almost no time on him because he was too busy with the Union and politicking. He grew up to be everyone's joke and at times he was desperate to be liked (which lead him to do stupid things to get attention), then he tried to prove that he was not the feck up he'd always been anymore (by trying to emulate what his dad had been doing for years) and got in way over his head.
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Arruda said:
Ziggy was a wonderfully designed character, I think. So many flaws, but every one of them extremely common around there and perfectly understandable considering his upbringing.

We "hate him" because he's incompetent, even as a lowlife. In a series with much more hateful and despicable people, that hate gives us something to think about.
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Agreed.

I grew to like him much more after my second viewing of that season.
 
R.N7 said:
Agreed.

I grew to like him much more after my second viewing of that season.
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Much like me, I only saw him as an average twat in my first viewing.

This is probably the series I saw were there is more to gain in watching it again. Since you deviate your focus from the plot and action, you look much deeper into the characters and realize how well designed most of them are. I don't think there's a single person in the series I outright "hate". There's few villains in the traditional sense of the word, every character has humane flaws.
 
Rado_N said:
I'm near the end of Season 2 at the moment, watching for the third time, and I still struggle to pick a clear favourite season.

5 was definitely the weakest, but it was by no means shit (aside from the serial killer nonsense). The lying reporter annoyed me, though.
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Yeah me too, I felt like punching his face. He was the Samir Nasri of Baltimore. I agree with Drainy about him being a bit too one-dimensional, he lacked the complexity of most characters (well it's not even 'complexity' per se, it's just that there's more than one layer to them). Absolutely love Gus though, brilliant actor.

De'Londa is annoying as feck as well.
 
Ziggy's arc is incredible, and sad. He's a character to hate, for sure, though he gained a few points with the duck stunt.

As for him at the end of the season:

seeing him in the car after the shooting, all jumped up and at the end of his tether, and the "time's up" sign on his parking meter popping up... beautifully made scene
 
Rado_N said:
:eek: Last two seasons? Season 4 is fecking brilliant!
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I read this here but I didn't liked it that much, at-least not as second and third season.

Mockney said:
I hated Ziggy in Season 2, but again, I was probably supposed to.
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Ziggy is the most insane character in the show and I loved him.

Anyway, finished it yesterday and yeah, a great show. The conclusions of the characters were in overall good, though I don't think that they should have left Marlo free (I didn't liked this character at all contrary to Stringer and Avon). The serial killer thing was nonsense, McNulty was stupid at some things but that was lunatic stuff.

Definitely one of the greatest TV show ever made.
 
A feck-tonne of money and the connect to legitimate business?

He just didn't want it, hence he walked out of the networking thing in his suit and picked a fight with the first mopes he saw.
 
R.N7 said:
I liked how Marlo ended up getting everything Stringer wanted but was left ruined by it.
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Well, it would have been good if Marlo was a young Stringer, but in fact Marlo was pretty much a younger version of Avon. Anyway, the Marlo stuff from beginning looked silly to me, coming from nowhere and becoming the biggest drug lord on a city which had a lot of drug lords.
 
Revan said:
Well, it would have been good if Marlo was a young Stringer, but in fact Marlo was pretty much a younger version of Avon. Anyway, the Marlo stuff from beginning looked silly to me, coming from nowhere and becoming the biggest drug lord on a city which had a lot of drug lords.
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He's based on a real person.

In the mid-1980s, Timmirror Stanfield was a major Baltimore drug trafficker. In 1986 Stanfield was 25 and ran a gang which included over fifty members. The Stanfield gang controlled South Baltimore's Westport area and West Baltimore's Murphy Homes housing project.[26] The gang committed multiple murders, and drew the attention of authorities, who were able to persuade fifteen witnesses to testify. The core of the gang was convicted.[27] This real life criminal forms the basis of the character's origins while emphasizing the rise in brutality from the American heroin trade of the 1970s to the crack cocaine trade of the 1980s.
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I don't think he got what Stringer wanted, he was only in the first stages of his intro to 'legitimate' business, he could well have been taken for a ride just like Stringer did! And yes as Revan said, he didn't even want that, what was important for him was his name on the street which ultimately had been taken away from him.
 
Besides, Marlo was nothing like either Stringer or Avon. Both of them, whilst ruthless and brutal at times, had moral codes and had pretty endearing personalities at times. Marlo didn't, he was just a ruthless bastard with no emotion who couldn't give a feck, and would kill anyone who got in his way. Hell, he had a security guard of a shop killed for getting annoyed when he stole lollipops!
 
Cina said:
Besides, Marlo was nothing like either Stringer or Avon. Both of them, whilst ruthless and brutal at times, had moral codes and had pretty endearing personalities at times. Marlo didn't, he was just a ruthless bastard with no emotion who couldn't give a feck, and would kill anyone who got in his way. Hell, he had a security guard of a shop killed for getting annoyed when he stole lollipops!
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He got killed because he stepped up to him, not because he got annoyed. Marlo was awesome, ruthless and the scene in the end defined him so well. He doesn't want suit and business, he want to be running the streets, be a crime lord. Alone.

In that way he had more of Avon, the corners, drugs, guns, crime and OG mentality. But ended in the same path Stringer did, that the game was just a meaning to a "bigger" end.
 
I don't see how anyone could think Marlo was awesome really. Most characters in the show were so multi dimensional, and had both good and bad traits, no matter what side of the law they were on. Marlo was basically just introduced as a gangster with no feelings or moral code, totally ruthless, no emotion, I never really connected with him in the same way as I did with the likes of Stringer and Avon. He just came across as a means to keep fighting the drug war after the B&B demise.
 
R.N7 said:
He's based on a real person.
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Didn't knew that. I know about real Barksdale and heard an interview of him but didn't knew that Marlo was based on a real person too.

Cina said:
I don't see how anyone could think Marlo was awesome really. Most characters in the show were so multi dimensional, and had both good and bad traits, no matter what side of the law they were on. Marlo was basically just introduced as a gangster with no feelings or moral code, totally ruthless, no emotion, I never really connected with him in the same way as I did with the likes of Stringer and Avon. He just came across as a means to keep fighting the drug war after the B&B demise.
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My biggest reason why I didn't like the two last seasons. Unlike Avon and Stringer who were likable characters I couldn't stand and couldn't connected with Marlo.
 
That's true, but there were so many other plots in the last two seasons (the schools, Carcetti, the newspaper...) that it wasn't that annoying, I found.
 
Season four is probably the greatest season of television I've ever watched so I really can't agree there. Marlo in my eyes is just a plot device to keep the drug war going past Avon and Stringer, but the season is far more about the school kids, Carcetti, and even Chris and Snoop than him. I had no issues with him as a character, I just didn't really care about him all that much, he just felt like a necessity to keep things going.
 
Cina said:
Besides, Marlo was nothing like either Stringer or Avon. Both of them, whilst ruthless and brutal at times, had moral codes and had pretty endearing personalities at times. Marlo didn't, he was just a ruthless bastard with no emotion who couldn't give a feck, and would kill anyone who got in his way. Hell, he had a security guard of a shop killed for getting annoyed when he stole lollipops!
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I think that Marlo had a lot of similarities of Avon, in fact I think that he was the new Avon (like in the end in the show when we saw every character replaced by a younger version). Also, in the show we have seen Avon after many years in the business and yeah he wasn't as brutal as Marlo. But I doubt that it was always in that way, when his gang was fighting for the towers and the corners I think that he could have been a much bigger and brutal killer.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
That's true, but there were so many other plots in the last two seasons (the schools, Carcetti, the newspaper...) that it wasn't that annoying, I found.
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Carcetti was great. Another example of an idealist who when came to position, well didn't do as much as he thought to change things.
 
Revan said:
I think that Marlo had a lot of similarities of Avon, in fact I think that he was the new Avon (like in the end in the show when we saw every character replaced by a younger version). Also, in the show we have seen Avon after many years in the business and yeah he wasn't as brutal as Marlo. But I doubt that it was always in that way, when his gang was fighting for the towers and the corners I think that he could have been a much bigger and brutal killer.
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I agree. And you can clearly tell that by the way that Avon wasn't at all attracted by the more business-oriented way that Stringer was using to run things.

Avon was softer than Marlo but that was probably due to being older and more mature. That aside, they are more similar than different. He's also explored in more depth, you see him in plenty of personal/family situations which aren't developed in the Marlo character.
 
I am watching season 5 on Atlantic and just don't get the man love the newspaper head honchos show Scott. Wtf do they see in him?
 
I don't remember that much about season 5 to be honest, I need to watch the whole lot again. I don't get the hate for season 2 either, I thought it was brilliant.
 
I'm glad people are coming round to my way of thinking on Marlo. Rap video gangster. Probably the main reason I rate S3 ahead of S4.

I did like his Stringer-esque ending though. But it's an ending that could've played out just as well with Avon, and I'd have given more of a shit.

Still, nit picking.
 
Badunk said:
I am watching season 5 on Atlantic and just don't get the man love the newspaper head honchos show Scott. Wtf do they see in him?
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He sells paper, and could get rewards. It's that simple, and to be honest, in the harsh context newspapers are going through, I don't think it's that unbelievable.
 
Badunk said:
I am watching season 5 on Atlantic and just don't get the man love the newspaper head honchos show Scott. Wtf do they see in him?
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Gus said it numerous times about the newspaper headmen; they smelt a Pulitzer from the homeless coverage, hence their infatuation with and promotion of Templeton's coverage.

By the way, Gus was one of my favourite characters from the entire show. I really enjoyed his scenes.
 
I love Gus, and the newspaper scenes in general were interesting. I like that the writers of the Wire have some insight into both the police and the newspapers, and get the difference in humour and social interaction in those two settings.

Season 4 is clearly the best... from the summer hijinx into the serious happenings that the kids we follow encounter towards the end, it really shows just how these are simply kids who find themselves in a society and system where they'll find it hard to find stability and safety for themselves :\

David Simon and the gang are brilliant at showing the humanity of any group... Generation Kill surprised the shit out of me too when, after the first episode where you meet all the jarheads, you suddenly start seeing glimpses of how they're all real people and you can relate at some level to them.
 
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