UK vaccination uptake is excellent, across the board. Vastly superior to the US. It could always be better, obviously, but the UK is not somewhere that has serious issues around vaccine hesitancy. Amongst NHS staff, or anyone else. So what’s your point?
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
UK vaccination uptake is excellent, across the board. Vastly superior to the US. It could always be better, obviously, but the UK is not somewhere that has serious issues around vaccine hesitancy. Amongst NHS staff, or anyone else. So what’s your point?
My point is you blamed Joe Rogan for the hesitancy in vaccination uptake in the US. In the US only 75.06% of the population are vaccinated.
In the UK only 76,70% of the population are vaccinate. So clearly we need someone to blame here in the UK as well. But who? Why is this happening?
Based on a quick google, there are >1m frontline NHS staff, so this means a ~92% vaccination rate.
US' rate is in the mid-60s.
e - I'm still confused what this has to do with Brand and/or Rogan. Your post seems to assume that Rogan can't be influential outside the US, and that he is the primary source (patient zero?) of skepticism.
I’m assuming he’s a big Rogan fan (there must be some out there, right?) whose feelings got hurt by my comment which mentioned Rogan’s name in the context of vaccine hesitancy.
Either that or he doesn’t know what “et al” means…
Missed your comment under the tweet.
I checked around and apparently Rogan is the #1 podcast in UK, while Brand isn't on the list/is 82nd
I don't give two shits about that white, racist, meat head. Laugh out loud.
And yes, I do know what "et al" means. I have two degrees, one from the University of Leicester, and one from the University of Nottingham.
There was really no need to hurt my feelings insinuating that I'm not educated enough. I'm already struggling enough with my confidence, so your sarcastic comments are really out of place.
Last edited:
My point is that there are still 80,000 vaccinated NHS STAFF! They should know better! So I'd like to understand the reasons why they are resisting the vaccination program and what consequences should they suffer for their irresponsible behavior.
Last edited:
If you don’t want people to assume you’re dumb then maybe don’t act dumb?
I was a bit taken aback that anyone would be unaware that vaccines have been politicised in the US (much more so than EU/UK) with their constant online culture war a big driver of this division. A culture war that some of Rogan’s guests (and Rogan himself) has played a part in.
You know this, though. You’re a smart guy. So should I assume you’re just trolling?
I'm not trolling. Why would you assume that I'm not educated enough to know what "et al" means?
I never brought up your education, nor did I assume anything. I speculated that you didn’t know what “et al” meant when you went off on one, trying to blame Russell Brand for ~ 8% of NHS staff not getting vaccinated.
Ah ok, fair enough. Yes, I do know what it means.
I was only wondering that, if Joe Rogan is partly to blame for a negative vaccination uptake in the U.S. (due to the views he promotes on his podcast), could a similar case be made for the U.K., and a negative vaccination uptake in part be blamed on R. Brand and the unfavourable views he’s promoting on his podcast.
Maybe? But it’s not a big issue if it is, because uptake in the UK has been excellent. So there really isn’t any need for finger pointing.
In the US there’s been a big divide for political reasons, which is a disaster. And that divide has been made worse by the sort of right wing grifter that Rogan has often had as a guest on his show. So I can understand why there’s a bit of soul searching going on about how to rein in the sort of misinformation shared on shows like his. This also includes major news networks like Fox news. The issue is much bigger than podcasts.
Well, I'd say the vaccination uptake in the U.K. has been slightly better that in the U.S. The share of fully vaccinated people in the U.K. is 70.88% (the overall share is 76.70%) whereas in the U.S. it's 63.48%. Portugal has 90.45% but, of course, it's impossible to make a comparison between a country with a population of 10 million and a country with a population of 330 million.
Having said that, you could argue that the overall vaccination uptake isn't really that bad in direct comparison with the most populous European countries. Germany, for example, a country with a population of 83 million has a an overall vaccination share of 75.04%. It is almost the exact same number in the U.S. which has 75.06%. The overall numbers for France with a population of 67 million are only marginally better than those in the U.S. It's 79.66%.
So when you actually look at the numbers I wouldn't say the vaccination uptake in the U.K. has been excellent, and the one in the U.S. has been the opposite. It seems to me the differences are quite small and, let's say the influence/impact of whatever Joe Rogan's podcast is doing is actually quite negligent.
The US is a big place. What's the vaccination rate in Alabama, for example? In a country that size, if you have large areas with low uptakes it is as bad as a smaller country having an overall lower rate. It doesn't matter if New York has a 99% vaccination rate, they can't share beds or patients with Alabama even if the statistics do get bundled together. So you do need to address why those regions have low vaccine uptake and Joe Rogan will definitely be one of the reasons.
Alabama is an interesting case. Apparently only 49.4% of all age groups of the state's population have been fully vaccinated. 61.2%, however, have had at least one dose. According to a study in the U.K. up to 96.79% of people have developed antibodies after the first vaccine. So maybe we could consider the 61.2% of partially vaccinated Alabama citizens as quite safe against the virus. I haven't yet looked into the most recent infection and death rates but it would be interesting to find out whether this is one of the reasons the partially vaccinated are deciding not to go for the second dose.
Furthermore, Alabama has one of the least vaccinated children aged 5-11. I'm not sure where I stand on vaccination of children, to be honest, as that is not something that's pushed in the U.K. Vaccination for children aged 5-11 is recommended only to those children who are in a clinical risk group or who live with someone who is in immunosuppressed. I've not yet looked into the possibility that the reason Alabama's low vaccination rate is influenced by the fact that it has the smallest share of vaccinated 5-11 year olds, and that the reason for this is that not every single 5-11 year old should be required or expected to be vaccinated in the first place. So how does this whole thing influence the numbers.
Furthermore, it seems that in the last election 89% of Black voters votes for Biden and only 11% for Trump. Regarding white voters, the majority voted for Trump (74%), and only 23% for Biden. Does this play a role in the attitude toward the vaccination program? The data suggests that the vast majority of partially and fully vaccinated people are White - but they're majority Republican. Wouldn't you expect that this racial group would be more influenced by Fox News and Joe Rogan and that their vaccination numbers would be lower than those of the Democrat voting population?
I don't know. I'm trying to research some more numbers as it seems a bit complex. You said that Joe Rogan is definitely one of the reasons. It would be interesting to examine your claim empirically and, if possible, quantify to the best of our abilities what percentage of people have actually been influenced by Rogan's podcast in their decision to refuse to be vaccinated.
Alabama is just an example as it's one of the more stereotypically redneck states. I'm sure there will be others that are lower still.
Short of going out and doing surveys you will never prove beyond doubt Rogan's influence. I think we all know he has an army of followers in states that also happen to have low vaccination rates, and that's enough for most to make an educated assumptions.
You could look at Texas as that's his adopted homeland and the state that seems most enamoured with him. What story does their vaccination rate tell?
I definitely will. I need to look into the methodology first before I try understand the projected potential Covid hospitalizations. I do have an issue with those classic 'Denmark comparisons' as some have also suggested the NHS adopts the Danish model. It's a small country with 5.8 million citizens and a different health care system, so comparisons regarding any aspects of primary and/or acute care, hospitalizations, hospital discharge and continuing health care, the interplay with CCGs and local authorities, the funding, the way we deal with commissioning and provider systems, and tons of other stuff.... it's really, really complex and I instinctively hesitate reading about 'if we were Denmark then we'd be way better of in this and that regard'.
You can over-think all these data IMO. There’s not many clear conclusions to be drawn but something which really leaps out is that countries with the best outcomes in the last two waves are the countries that got the highest vaccination uptake. With booster uptake particularly important for omicron (as it’s the most recent). There really isn’t any doubt about this by now. Vaxxes vs un-vaxxed ICU occupation data really just reinforces the point.
If you want to compare the job that vaccines are doing, looking at population headline numbers doesn't help. In particular it masks the fact that the UK have consciously chosen not to vaccinate 5-11s (except those in clinical risk groups) and until recently were operating a single dose only policy for 12-17s. If you look at 12+ only the UK have given first dose to 91%, two doses to 84% and boosters to 65%.
Crucially to understand the biggest impact on hospitalisations you need to look at vaccine takeup in the adult population, particularly the over 40s. For fatalities, you need to look at the takeup rates in the oldest groups. Broadly the difference between 80% takeup in your over 70s and 95% takeup matters - in fact it's better to look at it by looking at the unvaxxed stat, 5% unvaxxed v 20% means you've got 4x as many highly vulnerable people.
It's possible to use age profiled vaccine takeup rates to look at how vulnerable countries are. By that criteria the US suffers, in fact if you look at individual states of the US the odds in certain states are even worse.
A recent look at the vulnerability basics for a few countries:
While I've got my graphics head on, an interesting site that compares various EU countries to look at the "vulnerable but unvaxxed" proportions left by the vaccine campaigns.
https://fdebarre.shinyapps.io/ecdc-vaccination/
The UK (of course) is not in that comparison app, but he does offer this, just to give a sense of how we fit in to the story by using a comparison with France:
https://fdebarre.shinyapps.io/ecdc-vaccination/
The UK (of course) is not in that comparison app, but he does offer this, just to give a sense of how we fit in to the story by using a comparison with France:
Here in Australia 95% of adults have had 2 shots or more. The 5% unvaccinated account for 50% of ICU beds with much of the remaining 50% being very old people or people with other serious health issues. The triple vaxxed account for zero or close to zero admissions to ICU.
Here in NSW we have had over a million confirmed cases of covid in less than 2 months (likely far more) and the hospitals were stretched but didn't collapse. This wave is now subsiding. So the importance of vaccination is surely well past debate.
Overall we have 78.5% of all people vaccinated which is just over 83.5% of over 5's vaccinated and nearly 95% of over 16's. The over fives have only just stated getting their shots so they will start influencing numbers soon as they get their second shot.
Last edited:
Maybe my Novavax vaccine doses (that appear on my NHS app) will finally get some respect
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60245736
Welcome to the respect.
Latest figures show double vaxxed 15 times less likely to be admitted to ICU than unvaxxed. Triple vaxxed only ever seem to be admitted when very old and even then very rare indeed.
Vaccines doing their job on mortality rates.
In fairness Russell Brand is a knob head
Got boosted last night, easiest of the three.
Had mine last week and it was the first one to affect me. Chills and body aches for 2 days
Interesting research from SA on what happens to your immunity and antibody responses following Omicron. It comes with the usual provisos about small scale study and how much weight we should attach to lab test antibody counts, but still, a reminder of why it helps to be vaxxed.
The vaxxed in the study had either had one dose of J&J, or two doses of Pfizer
The vaxxed in the study had either had one dose of J&J, or two doses of Pfizer
Interesting. This could mean the end of the search for an omicron specific vaccine.
Wasn't this study based on only 8 animal tests and hasn't been peer reviewed yet?
If confirmed with larger study it could mean that it is the manner of transmission that is the biggest issue or further research is needed. Or both.
Clotting issue with AZ not as bad as first thought.
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/02/23/astrazeneca-clotting-risk-overhyped/
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/02/23/astrazeneca-clotting-risk-overhyped/
Do any Germans know how ill fare on a stag next weekend without the booster? Will I get in everywhere?if someone could tag someone for me that'd be great
Probably going to open a can of worms here but has anyone read up on the Pfizer documents?
Watched this YouTube video earlier (the documents are contained in the description) on vaccine related injuries/deaths and it really did shock me. If I hadn't already been vaccinated I might have not taken it knowing this information and given how mild Omicron is for the majority of people in my age group who get it. I also know this logic is flawed in that others around you who are more susceptible to serious disease from covid benefit from you being vaccinated to reduce the likelihood that you can transmit it to them.
I'd probably have got the vaccine anyway but I do find it quite disgusting how they have redacted the total number of vaccine doses administered for the period which would then allow us to know the probability of suffering an adverse effect.
Watched this YouTube video earlier (the documents are contained in the description) on vaccine related injuries/deaths and it really did shock me. If I hadn't already been vaccinated I might have not taken it knowing this information and given how mild Omicron is for the majority of people in my age group who get it. I also know this logic is flawed in that others around you who are more susceptible to serious disease from covid benefit from you being vaccinated to reduce the likelihood that you can transmit it to them.
I'd probably have got the vaccine anyway but I do find it quite disgusting how they have redacted the total number of vaccine doses administered for the period which would then allow us to know the probability of suffering an adverse effect.
Last edited:
Am I mental? Why has no one even bothered to respond to this? I accept that many of the results in the papers could be noncebo but the fact that these results have been and continue to be hidden from us is certainly alarming.
The results haven't been hidden. They haven't been published in that format before and the court have ordered release of individual report forms (which will have to have personal data like name/date of birth redacted) before publication of those "tens of thousands" of pages are produced.
The UK and EMA have been open and prompt with publishing throughout. The FDA less so with national figures, because they are generally slow and seem to have trouble collating data from all their States.
The core data is public domain. To understand what it looks like you need to read something like:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ary-of-yellow-card-reporting#analysis-of-data
The current report is available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...group-on-covid-19-vaccine-safety-surveillance
For context, around 23m people in the UK have received (at least) two doses of Pfizer, and around 37m have received it as a booster.
They've had around 150,000 event reports - mostly about "mild flu-like systems" or "injection arm pain" that go after a couple of days - without medical intervention.
Essentially anyone (health professional, person affected, friend etc) can fill in an adverse event report. There's no vetting at that stage to see if the information is accurate, and none at all to see if it relates to the vaccine. You can try making a report now, if you like.
https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
It will get added to next week's surveillance report without comment, it will become another data point in the report.
Some side-effects are so common that they put them in the leaflets they hand out at the vaccine sites. In fact, some are so common, that people don't bother reporting them - like the "punched in the arm" sensation that a lot of people get. Lots of reports at clinical trial stage (where you get asked specifically about such things) but now viewed as a running joke on here - certainly not hidden, or not discussed, just not worth avoiding given covid's potential to do worse.
Deaths and events that put people into hospital get analysed more closely. The fact is though - on average about 12,000 people die each week in the UK - many of them suddenly or unexpectedly, when you give 80m doses of vaccines of vaccine to more than 30m people, some of them will inevitably die of non-vaccine related causes within a couple of months of their vaccination. The analysis of whether a death is caused by (or triggered by) the vaccine takes both genuine medical expertise and a fundamental understanding of the statistics.
You can see what the experts think on the pages I've linked to. They do see "signals" in the data and when they do like with myocarditis in young men, they form part of their public briefings. They don't need to hide the data, to suggest that doctors and public health authorities the world over are hiding these things is frankly ridiculous. Billions of doses of Pfizer have now been used - there's no mass media cover-up of deaths, and there's no public health cover-up either.
As to why Campbell has tumbled down this rabbit hole at this stage - you'd have to ask him. I've been talking about adverse reactions and the underlying statistics for over a year now - because the key data had been public domain throughout.
He’s been an interesting case study in what happens to people that get a bit of fame/following online. They invariably end up going down a clickbaity rabbit hole, because that’s how they get the most interactions. First invermectin, now this nonsense. It’s a shame because he was clearly very well intentioned at the beginning.
@jojojo @P-Ro
The EU transparency with adverse events is exceptional. Have a look at this database. Every adverse event for every licensed medicine in a searchable database. All available online to anyone who is interested.
https://www.adrreports.eu/
The EU transparency with adverse events is exceptional. Have a look at this database. Every adverse event for every licensed medicine in a searchable database. All available online to anyone who is interested.
https://www.adrreports.eu/