The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[NinjaFletch]

What kind of antibody test he undergone? Rapid ones won’t show it for the vaccine you need to do an antibody test called SARS-CoV-2-anti-S.

Ah, that sounds plausible. He did it himself at home.

I'm surprised the trial didn't debrief him properly on that though. He's panicking that he hasn't got any protection, so hopefully I can find out what he did and reassure him.

Edit: Nope just checked he got an email with a readout breaking it down into N and S and saying he had neither antibodies.

 

[zing]

Ah, that sounds plausible. He did it himself at home.

I'm surprised the trial didn't debrief him properly on that though. He's panicking that he hasn't got any protection, so hopefully I can find out what he did and reassure him.

Edit: Nope just checked he got an email with a readout breaking it down into N and S and saying he had neither antibodies.

@jojojo had given me an explanation earlier that testing for whether vaccines will provide immunity is commercially not straightforward. Tagging her hoping she can explain

 

[Rajma]

Ah, that sounds plausible. He did it himself at home.

I'm surprised the trial didn't debrief him properly on that though. He's panicking that he hasn't got any protection, so hopefully I can find out what he did and reassure him.

Edit: Nope just checked he got an email with a readout breaking it down into N and S and saying he had neither antibodies.

I reassure you that the one he used at home (it’s antigen test actually) definitely won’t show it. My Mum had a Pfizer vaccine (2 doses) a month ago, she with her vaccinated colleagues did these sort of tests at work as they have access to them (healthcare workers) and all of them came back negative. It’s the igG anti-S test from your vein what is needed to determine antibody level from vaccine.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I reassure you that the one he used at home (it’s antigen actually) definitely won’t show it. My Mum had a Pfizer vaccine (2 doses) a month ago, she with her vaccinated colleagues did these sort of tests at work as they have access to them (healthcare workers) and all of them came back negative.

Ah yeah, should have added that in the edit. He did it at home but sent it off and they emailed him results which specifically break it down into N and S.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ah yeah, should have added that in the edit. He did it at home but sent it off and they emailed him results which specifically break it down into N and S.

N = nucleocapsid. S = spike proten

If either of them are going to change after vaccination it will be S. But even with the expensive hospital based tests (from a vein) it’s possible that they might not test for the same bit of the spike that the vaccine stimulates.

Plus it’s possible that the antibodies in his blood have been and gone. Being immune is as much about being able to rapidly create the right antibodies next time they’re needed as it is about churning them as soon as you’re vaccinated.

Finally, T cell mediated immunity is important too. And that won’t show up on any antibody test.

 

[Rajma]

N = nucleocapsid. S = spike proten

If either of them are going to change after vaccination it will be S. But even with the expensive hospital based tests (from a vein) it’s possible that they might not test for the same bit of the spike that the vaccine stimulates.

Plus it’s possible that the antibodies in his blood have been and gone. Being immune is as much about being able to rapidly create the right antibodies next time they’re needed as it is about churning them as soon as you’re vaccinated.

Finally, T cell mediated immunity is important too. And that won’t show up on any antibody test.

That’s it basically. Please read this @NinjaFletch https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.im...covid-19-vaccine-qa-latest-news-antibody/amp/. Your grandad is protected mate (at least partially).

 

[NinjaFletch]

N = nucleocapsid. S = spike proten

If either of them are going to change after vaccination it will be S. But even with the expensive hospital based tests (from a vein) it’s possible that they might not test for the same bit of the spike that the vaccine stimulates.

Plus it’s possible that the antibodies in his blood have been and gone. Being immune is as much about being able to rapidly create the right antibodies next time they’re needed as it is about churning them as soon as you’re vaccinated.

Finally, T cell mediated immunity is important too. And that won’t show up on any antibody test.

Ah thank you, I had assumed it was probably more an issue with the test than the vaccine itself (although with the bold I do wonder if the decision to space out over 12 weeks heightened that effect, he must be very near his second dose).

I assume he probably have should been told all this by whatever trial he's signed up too. He's a man who thinks that he's being written to personally whenever he gets an email from a retailer, so I'm very surprised he hasn't read the debrief.

 

[Bosws87]

How are they taking it seriously? The UK are continuing to put AZ into people’s arms, with another big shipment due from India.

The UK are the one's not playing silly political games over a vaccine its been clear for a while now Europe has been doing this.

If you read into the stats the sample is smaller than you would expect of a random sample of people without any vaccination.

Ever since the doses were smaller then expected they have been pushing a negative image without applying any common sense, its only going to take them even longer then the already poor vaccination rate in Europe with this attitude as people are going to be wary of certain vaccines with no real cause to.

 

[Wibble]

With respect, people who are better qualified than you at assessing risk have decided that it’s better to hold off on using this specific vaccine until they have fully investigated these latest issues. The fact there are other vaccines available makes this a slightly easier decision. If this was the one and only vaccine available I think they would have been less likely to pause this one.

You won't be allowed to have it until that has occurred and countries decide to continue (or not). Many countries have carried on without a pause after examining the available data anyway.

In reality there has only been one country where anything at all might possibly be an issue. I very much doubt all these other countries would have reacted so cautiously with any vaccine under normal circumstances.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You won't be allowed to have it until that has occurred and countries decide to continue (or not). Many countries have carried on without a pause after examining the available data anyway.

I’m not sure what you mean by the bit in bold. There’s 30,000 people in Ireland due to get the AZ vaccine this week that have had their appointment postponed.

No one country has examined all the data. It will have been collected by the regulators in the countries reporting the serious ADRs and submitted to the EMA. Along with the latest update of the safety database maintained by the manufacturer. That’s what the EMA (specifically a committee called PRAC) will be going through with a fine toothcomb over the next 24 - 36 hours. Then and only then will we have the whole picture

 

[Wibble]

I’m not sure what you mean by the bit in bold. There’s 30,000 people in Ireland due to get the AZ vaccine this week that have had their appointment postponed.

No one country has examined all the data. It will have been collected by the regulators in the countries reporting the serious ADRs and submitted to the EMA. Along with the latest update of the safety database maintained by the manufacturer. That’s what the EMA (specifically a committee called PRAC) will be going through with a fine toothcomb over the next 24 - 36 hours. Then and only then will we have the whole picture

What I mean is that each country will look at the data and either carry on or suspend while they look at the data further. If you are allowed to have it the risk will have been assessed as acceptable so you personally don't need to agonise over it.

If further data emerges then of course be driven by that data but don't be driven speculation about data we don't have. Over caution can damage public confidence unnecessarily.

0.00022% incidents of blood clots close to the vaccination is lower than what you would expect by random chance so where is the justification for a pause? And that isn't even comparing the individual and collective increased risk (currently zero except possibly in Norway) of clots vs covid.

 

[Grinner]

I just got a note from my doctor in California saying I'm going to be able to get a vaccine in the next few weeks. I'm surprised it happened sooner than England but I'll take it. Presumably it'll either be Pfizer or J&J.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What I mean is that each country will look at the data and either carry on or suspend while they look at the data further. If you are allowed to have it the risk will have been assessed as acceptable so you personally don't need to agonise over it.

If further data emerges then of course be driven by that data but don't be driven speculation about data we don't have. Over caution can damage public confidence unnecessarily.

0.00022% incidents of blood clots close to the vaccination is lower than what you would expect by random chance so where is the justification for a pause? And that isn't even comparing the individual and collective risk from clots vs covid.

The justification for the pause is because there’s been a cluster of serious adverse events, with an unusual combination of symptoms, replicated in multiple cases in short period of time. Absolutely textbook reason for an emergency safety review of a recently licensed medicine.

Sometimes it takes a localised cluster to reveal important issues that aren’t showing up in the overall numbers. Obviously hope that isn’t the case here. In fact, my money’s on this turning out to be a false alarm. I understand the concern though. I wasn’t worried at all by what I read about the incidents in Austria/Italy but the Norwegian cluster is concerning.

 

[Bosws87]

The justification for the pause is because there’s been a cluster of serious adverse events, with an unusual combination of symptoms, replicated in multiple cases in short period of time. Absolutely textbook reason for an emergency safety review of a recently licensed medicine.

the latest publicly available data showed there were 35 reported cases of thrombocytopenia (a low blood platelet disorder) out of 54,000 “yellow card” reports after nearly 10 million AstraZeneca vaccinations.

For the Pfizer vaccine there were 22 cases out of 33,000 reports and almost 11 million doses administered.

Why is one ignored and one made a huge deal out of? apart from politics.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

the latest publicly available data showed there were 35 reported cases of thrombocytopenia (a low blood platelet disorder) out of 54,000 “yellow card” reports after nearly 10 million AstraZeneca vaccinations.

For the Pfizer vaccine there were 22 cases out of 33,000 reports and almost 11 million doses administered.

Why is one ignored and one made a huge deal out of? apart from politics.

How many of those cases of thrombocytopenia hospitalised someone? How many ended up dead? These are young people too. Not frail or elderly. It’s the severity of these incidents and the fact they happened in the same cohort, in quick succession, that raised the alarm.

This pause wasn’t decided by politicians either. It was expert drug safety physicians working for regulators. The same people we rely on to tell us these vaccines are safe when they are first licensed.

 

[Wibble]

I just got a note from my doctor in California saying I'm going to be able to get a vaccine in the next few weeks. I'm surprised it happened sooner than England but I'll take it. Presumably it'll either be Pfizer or J&J.

So flying back to the us?

 

[Grinner]

So flying back to the us?

Well I might as well. It's a fecking ball-ache trying to get into the UK at the moment and I haven't even been offered the vaccine there yet.

 

[Bosws87]

How many of those cases of thrombocytopenia hospitalised someone? How many ended up dead? These are young people too. Not frail or elderly. It’s the severity of these incidents and the fact they happened in the same cohort, in quick succession, that raised the alarm.

This pause wasn’t decided by politicians either. It was expert drug safety physicians working for regulators. The same people we rely on to tell us these vaccines are safe when they are first licensed.

I don't know i haven't got the data to hand, but ill hazard a guess there is minimal difference its clear to me there is an agenda against a vaccine which is hilarious in itself and doesn't help anyone.

Ever since the ridiculous comments from Macron about the effectiveness in over 65 its been obvious, i'm not saying the regulators aren't correct in throwing up the issue i'm talking about the way its being spoken about in the public arena by the not qualified.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't know i haven't got the data to hand, but ill hazard a guess there is minimal difference its clear to me there is an agenda against a vaccine which is hilarious in itself and doesn't help anyone.

Ever since the ridiculous comments from Macron about the effectiveness in over 65 its been obvious, i'm not saying the regulators aren't correct in throwing up the issue i'm talking about the way its being spoken about in the public arena by the not qualified.

Haven’t noticed much (any?) of that since this recent pause was initiated. Seems to be all very sensible statements from the various regulators involved. Even the Norwegian regulator that raised the issue were extremely careful to make it clear that causality had not been established.

 

[massi83]

the latest publicly available data showed there were 35 reported cases of thrombocytopenia (a low blood platelet disorder) out of 54,000 “yellow card” reports after nearly 10 million AstraZeneca vaccinations.

For the Pfizer vaccine there were 22 cases out of 33,000 reports and almost 11 million doses administered.

Why is one ignored and one made a huge deal out of? apart from politics.

Norwegian and Danish health experts aren't playing any politics, can you stop with your bs.

 

[Penna]

How many of those cases of thrombocytopenia hospitalised someone? How many ended up dead? These are young people too. Not frail or elderly. It’s the severity of these incidents and the fact they happened in the same cohort, in quick succession, that raised the alarm.

This pause wasn’t decided by politicians either. It was expert drug safety physicians working for regulators. The same people we rely on to tell us these vaccines are safe when they are first licensed.

I try to be objective about these kind of things, but even if the numbers are small I agree with you on this. Something seems wrong.

I had to take a course of Heparin last summer, and I certainly wouldn't want the AZ vaccine right now.

 

[Bosws87]

Norwegian and Danish health experts aren't playing any politics, can you stop with your bs.

Please read what i actually just put i agreed with being cautious.

I'm talking about the clear political games being played around vaccines.

 

[Stanley Road]

I'd do cartwheels if I was offered the AZ vaccine tomorrow, I've had thrombosis years ago, unfortunately I don't see an offer of any vaccine coming any time soon in eu countries, total shitshow.

 

[Stanley Road]

Cause or coincidence?
The data supplied by AstraZeneca shows there have been 37 reports of blood clots among the 17m people across Europe who have been given the vaccine.
But the key question that has to be asked is whether this is cause or coincidence? Would these clots have happened anyway?
Adverse events like this are monitored carefully, so regulators can assess if they are happening more than they should.
The 37 reports of clots are below the level you would expect. What is more, there is no strong biological explanation why the vaccine would cause a blood clot.
It is why the World Health Organization and UK drugs regulators have all said there is no evidence of a link.
Even the European Medicines Agency, which is looking into the reports, has suggested the vaccine should continue to be used given the risk Covid presents to health.
Unsurprisingly, therefore, the decisions by individual nations to pause their rollouts have baffled experts.
Prof Adam Finn, a member of the WHO's working group on Covid vaccines, says stopping rollout in this way is "highly undesirable" and could undermine confidence in the vaccine, costing lives in the long-term.
"Making the right call in situations like this is not easy, but having a steady hand on the tiller is probably what is needed most."


From the BBC site.

The Guardian report said without a vaccine they would expect to see 100 blood clot cases per week in the age group being vaccinated now. Old people get blood clots and old people die. This reporting is harming the rollout in eu in a disastrous way and needs to stop.

 

[Wibble]

The justification for the pause is because there’s been a cluster of serious adverse events, with an unusual combination of symptoms, replicated in multiple cases in short period of time. Absolutely textbook reason for an emergency safety review of a recently licensed medicine.

Sometimes it takes a localised cluster to reveal important issues that aren’t showing up in the overall numbers. Obviously hope that isn’t the case here. In fact, my money’s on this turning out to be a false alarm. I understand the concern though. I wasn’t worried at all by what I read about the incidents in Austria/Italy but the Norwegian cluster is concerning.

I agree and in the case of Norway a quick pause (hopefully) to start again soon is most likely appropriate but under normal circumstances such a small a localised potential issue wouldn't cause other countries to pause as their data doesn't show this. We have had this occasionally in the past (with a flu vaccine I think) where a localised effect was potentially detected. That country paused, found the issue was real but so rare that although it increased risk compared to not being vaccinated there was a decreased risk compared to the same side effect being triggered by getting flu. So they carried on but excluded those who had had the disease that the vaccine could potentially cause in the previous 6 months (or something like that). I believe all other countries carried on without pause.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is lots of non-normal behaviour going on and not just with this aspect of covid vaccines.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

It’s caused enough signal to make multiple countries pause vaccination. It hasn’t been proven that it’s not associated with the vaccine yet either. The right response would be to wait and see what happens, not be so dogmatic that you keep doling out ‘All vaccine good’ advice.

People's desperation for the vaccine to work as intended is causing them to get dangerously defensive about possible concerns. Which is exactly what vaccine hesitant people worried about to begin with, and were ridiculed for: we desperately need it to work so we're willing to overlook some concerns for the greater good. Individuals are free to make that personal choice but it's not a remotely appropriate expectation of society as a whole.

Strange to see people move the goal-posts from "it is perfectly safe" to "it is almost definitely perfectly safe, but even if it isn't, the benefits outweigh the risks" without any acknowledgement of how fundamentally different those two positions are.

Exactly. We were told this vaccine was 100% safe and wasn't rushed... now the narrative is it's better to have it than to not have it. I think we should not lose sight on what we're taking this vaccine for. To save lives and not further complicate our health... given the number of countries that have acted so quickly, it's safe to say there's real merit on this.

I stand by my opinion that there's no long term data on these vaccines and majority of the studies suggesting a big reduction in covid transmission has not been peer reviewed. Everything we are learning about this virus and vaccine is done in real time.. to have people take a position and not be able to be open to other people's opinion is pretty scary.

What makes it scarier is that the person who died was a nurse. She'd probably be hyper-aware of warning signs. And according to the newspaper she quickly got the best possible care at the best hospital.

2 other nurses(in their 60's I think) are also hospitalised.

Watch people come here defending this and say it's very rare but it happens.. just a big old coincidence.. nothing to see here.

No chance I’m getting this. 0%

You going to risk being called an anti vaxxer and a selfish prick! careful with your words.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

I got my first dose today. So far I'm still alive. I'm not feeling sick or anything yet. I just have some soreness around the vaccination spot. I have an underlying medical condition but they didn't even ask for proof. They just asked what or was. Easy breezy. My only challenge was finding my way back home since the vaccination site was in the middle of nowhere.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Cause or coincidence?
The data supplied by AstraZeneca shows there have been 37 reports of blood clots among the 17m people across Europe who have been given the vaccine.
But the key question that has to be asked is whether this is cause or coincidence? Would these clots have happened anyway?
Adverse events like this are monitored carefully, so regulators can assess if they are happening more than they should.
The 37 reports of clots are below the level you would expect. What is more, there is no strong biological explanation why the vaccine would cause a blood clot.
It is why the World Health Organization and UK drugs regulators have all said there is no evidence of a link.
Even the European Medicines Agency, which is looking into the reports, has suggested the vaccine should continue to be used given the risk Covid presents to health.
Unsurprisingly, therefore, the decisions by individual nations to pause their rollouts have baffled experts.
Prof Adam Finn, a member of the WHO's working group on Covid vaccines, says stopping rollout in this way is "highly undesirable" and could undermine confidence in the vaccine, costing lives in the long-term.
"Making the right call in situations like this is not easy, but having a steady hand on the tiller is probably what is needed most."


From the BBC site.

And if a very small % of blood clots is their issue, why haven't the EU raised the same concerns on the Pfizer vaccine... it has a small % too.

Odd that?

 

[One Night Only]

Never realised how old most of this forum is. Bunch of old fogies getting your vaccines already !

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

This news won’t surprise you then.

Hmm.. that's worrying. That makes it sound like AZ was rushing their vaccine. Not good news.

 

[berbatrick]

Is the AZ vaccine being taken in Europe made in UK or EU or India?

 

[Wibble]

Hmm.. that's worrying. That makes it sound like AZ was rushing their vaccine. Not good news.

It sounds like they have experienced not very surprising issues upscaling production under extraordinary circumstances. Quell suprise.

 

[Wibble]

Exactly. We were told this vaccine was 100% safe and wasn't rushed... now the narrative is it's better to have it than to not have it. I think we should not lose sight on what we're taking this vaccine for. To save lives and not further complicate our health... given the number of countries that have acted so quickly, it's safe to say there's real merit on this.

You were told the vaccines hadn't been rushed in terms of safety because ...... drum roll ..... they haven't been rushed in terms of safety.

Countries have acted out of caution and now you say that caution is a sign that there is a real issue? That makes no sense. If the facts were exactly the same and fewer countries made a temporary halt that wouldn't alter the data one iota.

I stand by my opinion that there's no long term data on these vaccines and majority of the studies suggesting a big reduction in covid transmission has not been peer reviewed. Everything we are learning about this virus and vaccine is done in real time.. to have people take a position and not be able to be open to other people's opinion is pretty scary.

How do you think every vaccine is studied post initial approval? Why do you want to ignore the very consistent data that shows the vaccines have a major effect reducing transmission? Based on your past posting history I simply don't believe that you form your opinions based on peer reviewed literature, so suddenly deciding that you will ignore very recent data that hasn't been published yet, emphasis on yet, seems to me to be disingenuous at best.

You seem to be forming opinions based on evidenceless feeling so is it any wonder that people think you are talk out of your backside.

Watch people come here defending this and say it's very rare but it happens.. just a big old coincidence.. nothing to see here.

It is rarer than you would expect if you hadn't been immunised. There is no causation mechanism even suggested. You would have a better (but still incorrect) argument if you were saying that vaccination reduced the incidence of blood clots.

 

[Wibble]

I get the impression you’ve been almost willing this vaccine to fail for a while now. Have you shorted AstraZeneca?!?

Ronaldo's Mum Eh is another one in the same boat.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

You were told the vaccines hadn't been rushed in terms of safety because ...... drum roll ..... they haven't been rushed in terms of safety.

Countries have acted out of caution and now you say that caution is a sign that there is a real issue? That makes no sense. If the facts were exactly the same and fewer countries made a temporary halt that wouldn't alter the data one iota.



How do you think every vaccine is studied post initial approval? Why do you want to ignore the very consistent data that shows the vaccines have a major effect reducing transmission? Based on your past posting history I simply don't believe that you form your opinions based on peer reviewed literature, so suddenly deciding that you will ignore very recent data that hasn't been published yet, emphasis on yet, seems to me to be disingenuous at best.

You seem to be forming opinions based on evidenceless feeling so is it any wonder that people think you are talk out of your backside.



It is rarer than you would expect if you hadn't been immunised. There is no causation mechanism even suggested. You would have a better (but still incorrect) argument if you were saying that vaccination reduced the incidence of blood clots.

You were told the vaccines hadn't been rushed in terms of safety because ...... drum roll ..... they haven't been rushed in terms of safety.

I'm going by this source that indicates phase 3 trials can take one to 4 years: https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

Countries have acted out of caution and now you say that caution is a sign that there is a real issue? That makes no sense. If the facts were exactly the same and fewer countries made a temporary halt that wouldn't alter the data one iota.

There's potential for issue, yes. A few days ago Germany was disappointed that neighbouring countries had paused the AZ vaccine.. now they themselves have paused it. This is definitely a potential for a real issue.

Why do you want to ignore the very consistent data that shows the vaccines have a major effect reducing transmission?

Show me one peer reviewed study now that proves transmission is largely reduced after covid vaccination. From my research there wasn't one as it's currently too early to make definitive conclusions - which is my whole point to all of this.

There was the Lancet study that hasn't been peer reviewed https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

There's the cambrdige university one as well that hasn't been peer reviewed.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Ronaldo's Mum Eh is another one in the same boat.

Dude I have no problem with these vaccines, my problem is essentially forcing it on people and don't say it's not essentially because it is. If you don't get it you're not allowed to live life.. essentially that's forcing it. This is where our arguments differ.

My other problem with these vaccines is a lot of the people who can't wait to get one (anecdotally from my experience) are the same ones who have neglected their health all their life. Every person I know so enthusiastic of vaccines has barely stepped foot in a gym, eaten healthy and are avid drinkers.

Maybe the second scenario is what's bothering me more with society and humanity overall.

Otherwise I hope this vaccines cures everyone and we can all go back to living how we were living before.

Some of you have been so afraid of dying that you forgot to continue living.

 

[Wibble]

I'm going by this source that indicates phase 3 trials can take one to 4 years: https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

They can take longer but they didn't. Having a pandemic meant we not only did we have a need to conduct them quickly but it also provided the conditions that allowed them to be done quickly. You had populations where you could easily examine the affect of vaccination vs placebo when the virus was running wild. There was no need to spread them out over years or decades because we could get the necessary data.

Show me one peer reviewed study now that proves transmission is largely reduced after covid vaccination. From my research there wasn't one as it's currently too early to make definitive conclusions - which is my whole point to all of this.

There was the Lancet study that hasn't been peer reviewed https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

There's the cambrdige university one as well that hasn't been peer reviewed.

It is too soon for peer reviewed journal articles. They take time so they will appear soon especially as we are still adding to the data so when published the error bars will be much reduced and give us more accurate answers. However, the interim data is so overwhelming that it will only be a matter of how much infections are reduced (a difference of a percent or two most likely) and how hugely symptoms/hospitalisations are reduced when infected after vaccination. You seem to think it is possible that the results so far are imaginary.

 

[Wibble]

Dude I have no problem with these vaccines, my problem is essentially forcing it on people and don't say it's not essentially because it is. If you don't get it you're not allowed to live life.. essentially that's forcing it. This is where our arguments differ.

It isn't complusory. You just want the benefits of others taking it yourself. To protection everyone's health as many people as possible must take it and those who don't must be restricted to protect everyone's health, especially those who genuinely can't take. Not different from current practice were yo have to immunise to enrol your kids in school or to be eligible for certain family tax benefits in some countries. personally I'd add a 1% Medicare levy on anyone who refused a covid vaccination without a genuine medical exemption to help cover the cost of their selfishness.

My other problem with these vaccines is a lot of the people who can't wait to get one (anecdotally from my experience) are the same ones who have neglected their health all their life. Every person I know so enthusiastic of vaccines has barely stepped foot in a gym, eaten healthy and are avid drinkers.

Quite a task but you have topped yourself with baseless idiotic statements.

Everyone I know can't wait for a vaccination irrespective of their age, health or fitness level as it is the way back to normality and that is a country where we are more back to normal than most because we actually took the pandemic seriously. Since you like anecdotal evidence I'll give you 3 examples. Me, 57 years old, not medical predispositons, mild overweight but fit as a fiddle, probably drinks slighly more than is good for me at weekend. My sleeve is already rolled up for any vaccine that is authorsied. Two others I had salad lunch with today. My wife's 27 year old personal trainer, did a triatlon 2 weeks ago, runs daily and of course exercises constantly in his job. He wants the jab yesterday especially as he has elderly sick parents. Then my wife. Same age as me, very fit indeed, exercises more than once daily, runs 10km for fun regularly and will be a qualified PT by the end of the year - more enthusiastic than me for a jab.

Maybe the second scenario is what's bothering me more with society and humanity overall.

Otherwise I hope this vaccines cures everyone and we can all go back to living how we were living before.

Some of you have been so afraid of dying that you forgot to continue living.

Those who you think are "afraid" of covid (which really should be everyone given the way it has screwed the world) are exactly those who have come out of this the best. Those who haven't e.g. UK, US, Canada etc are the ones living in fear due to covid being allowed to run free. Vaccine reluctance and odd concerns that being made to protect yourself and others is some intolerable infringement to your "freedom" aren't logical. It is such a shame that vaccine refusal isn't just an individual thing as we could just let natural selection sort things out. No not entirely serious.

 

[Oggmonster]

Cause or coincidence?
The data supplied by AstraZeneca shows there have been 37 reports of blood clots among the 17m people across Europe who have been given the vaccine.
But the key question that has to be asked is whether this is cause or coincidence? Would these clots have happened anyway?
Adverse events like this are monitored carefully, so regulators can assess if they are happening more than they should.
The 37 reports of clots are below the level you would expect. What is more, there is no strong biological explanation why the vaccine would cause a blood clot.
It is why the World Health Organization and UK drugs regulators have all said there is no evidence of a link.
Even the European Medicines Agency, which is looking into the reports, has suggested the vaccine should continue to be used given the risk Covid presents to health.
Unsurprisingly, therefore, the decisions by individual nations to pause their rollouts have baffled experts.
Prof Adam Finn, a member of the WHO's working group on Covid vaccines, says stopping rollout in this way is "highly undesirable" and could undermine confidence in the vaccine, costing lives in the long-term.
"Making the right call in situations like this is not easy, but having a steady hand on the tiller is probably what is needed most."


From the BBC site.

It's funny that BBC posted that when they are one of the worst for scare mongering especially with vaccines etc, share all the news then "what is everyone worried about?" After it. They have been one of the worst for creating panics.

 

[Tony Babangida]

Some of the contraceptive pills cause blood clots and people don’t bat an eyelid.