Completely understandable.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
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Completely understandable.
Got my booster dose of Pfizer on Saturday, had a pretty rough Sunday with a really bad headache and just generally feeling crap but was okay by the end of the night. However I can't seem to shift my fecking sore arm which didn't happen to me on the previous two. It's somehow sore on the inside of my bicep if I fully stretch out my arm, and also a little sore to touch too. On Monday it felt like it was in my armpit area, then yesterday further down my arm towards the inside of my elbow but now is just right in the middle of the bicep. Fecking annoying.
A colleagues family and extended family(I am from India) is refusing to get vaccinated because they say that cattle foetal cells are used in the manufacture of all vaccines. They’re the very religious type and the link to cows is what they’re against. He googled and found that this is true of covaxin, the indigenous vaccine here.
https://www.businesstoday.in/corona...making-covaxin-what-experts-298775-2021-06-15
@jojojo, @Wibble, @Brwned, @Pogue Mahone is there anything that is available online that shows this isn’t true for AstraZeneca or Sputnik? These are vulnerable people and it’d be nice if I could help convince them. I am googling but just posting here as you guys have good answers usually.
https://www.businesstoday.in/corona...making-covaxin-what-experts-298775-2021-06-15
@jojojo, @Wibble, @Brwned, @Pogue Mahone is there anything that is available online that shows this isn’t true for AstraZeneca or Sputnik? These are vulnerable people and it’d be nice if I could help convince them. I am googling but just posting here as you guys have good answers usually.
I think it is used in the production but there are no traces left in the actual vaccine. Difficult one to argue that.
I don't know for sure but the most common use of bovine cells is in the growth medium when microorganisms are involved but there is no bovine material in the vaccines themselves as far as I can tell. With mRNA vaccine it is less clear (to me) but the same is possible/likely as the custom DNA is replicated inside bacteria. I also seem to remember (but could be wrong) that fetal bovine serum was used in the research/development stage of mRNA vaccines. So no cells as FBS is the liquid remaining after cells and proteins are removed from fetal bovine blood.
I actually don’t know. I could google but you’ve obviously already done that! To get a definitive answer you could phone/email the pharma company (“contact us” on website) They all have Medical Information departments who deal with enquiries like this every day. They’ve probably been asked that exact question many times before.
Amazed so many aren't getting their kids vaccinated. Kids may not have that much individual reward themselves but you get vaccinated to protect those who can't and for the benefit to society and the economy by reducing the overall spread. It will be interesting to see how many of our 5-11 year olds get the jab here as the uptake has been reasonably enthusiastic in the 12-15 ages group. 16+ is already North of 90% but the 20-29 year group are lagging with less than 87% vaccinated. 12-15s are climbing and are over 80% already.
Good idea. With 1.2 billion Hindus in the world you would think they really should have an answer readily available.
And I'm not sure the risk for kids of getting covid is insignificant in comparison to the miniscule risk of harm from the vaccine.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...covid-far-outweigh-the-risks-of-myocarditis1/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...covid-far-outweigh-the-risks-of-myocarditis1/
I can fully understand parents who would rather not vaccinate their U12s. We have a huge set of data to reassure us about safety in adults but the numbers aren’t anything like as big for kids and they’re physiologically very different. I’m not really worried about any nasty surprises but in the absence of any compelling upside for the kid getting the jab it’s far from an easy decision. Even at a societal level when we know how effectively vaccines have defanged omicron if enough adults get vaccinated there shouldn’t be any need for the youngest kids to follow suit. And that’s without even getting into the relatively low effectiveness vs transmission of omicron. Which weakens the notion of “taking one for the team”
I don't get it at all TBH. You get a benefit for your own kid and you also benefit the society you live in. But then I've always been a vaccine advocate and had my son vaccinated well beyond the normal kiddy regime. Omicron may evade vaccines in terms of infection to some degree but it isn't total or even close and protection will only get better when the mRNA vaccines are tweaked for Omicron (assuming we don't get another variant soon).
Efficacy of two doses against catching omicron is nowhere near 70%. Could be less than half that.
Also need to consider the risk of myocarditis from covid in that article is pre-omicron. I’d like to see some data on omicron but there’s an excellent chance it’s significantly lower.
Boosted last week. Caught it a few days ago. Perfect timing
That would be interesting data and you would hope the covid related harms in general would be less, hopefully far less.
Wouldn't it be nice if we got to a state where extra shots to maintain antibodies weren't needed and memory cells were sufficient protection? Might take a while of course with much of the world still not sufficiently vaxxed. I think the "end" of this shit show may be when we realise that covid hasn't been discussed in everyday conversation for a whole week. I for one am totally over it all.
Yeah, it’s really hard to predict where we go from here with vaccines. I think annual jabs are inevitable for elderly and clinically vulnerable. Not sure if this will be the plan for younger adults (never mind kids) where I suspect we’ll end up relying on repeat infections to keep their immune response topped up.
4th dose (second booster) not showing much benefit in Israel. Have to say I’m pleased. Seems a terrible waste of vaccines now omicron is dominant.
Yeah I feel like Omicron with two jabs and a booster is going to get us to a point where, and I hate to use this phrase, “it’s just a bad flu”.
It’s essential at this point that jabs are going into fresh arms around the world. Zero sum says that will save more lives long term than scraping the west up from 93% to 95% or whatever the difference is.
It feels like such a "rich problem". Wondering if we should move to a 4th dose when low-income states are <10% first dose and thus critical areas for variant production. I think the science of understanding the effect of a 4th dose is noble, but sheesh we have to move quicker on vaccinating the world.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Have a friend who decided to get a full set, he is missing Moderna and Sputnik, next week he is going for Chinese lul.
There's more than enough cases in the vaccinated countries for variant production. It has been a boring mantra, with little basis on reality, from WHO for a while. Also African countries are wasting 100s of millions of doses through their own incompetence and lack of demand.
I'm pleased as well. Acknowledging the covid vaccines as a 3-shot seemed reasonable. Annual boosters (for those who need them or want them) seems inevitable. Things that encourage the idea that everyone keeps getting jabbed to topup circulating antibodies every few months just feel wrong.
Who would of thought piling people with a vaccine that is avoided by the most dominant variant isn't very useful, didn't see that one coming.
You have always struck me as a learned person and I haven't always replied when we have spoken in this thread due to the number of overwhelming replies but a question specifically for you, if you have had the virus (100%) both strains, your body builds an immunity based on antibodies. What is the point of that person getting the vaccine since the vaccine is essentially putting small amounts of the virus in your body to allow your body to create those antibodies (In a more controlled manner), is that correct? Keen to get your thoughts as I know some countries etc are starting to accept proof of having COVID in the past in lieu of a vaccination due to this. What am I missing or do you agree with that logic?
The 3rd shot gave a significant boost in protection vs omicron so it wasn’t a complete punt tbf.
The new vaccines aren't putting any virus into your body (MRNA ones) they are sending instructions to your cells to make a specific part of the original virus that attaches to human cells.
This is where all the scepticism and stupid gene therapy and altering your DNA crap came from.
for 2 months*
If they are sending instructions to your cells to make a specific part of the virus that attaches to our cells, is the point not that the body does the same thing and creates antibodies? Genuine question
It is not though.
If you’ve already had covid twice then yes, the additional protection from a vaccine is likely to be fairly minimal. I don’t think that applies to many people though. The best possible protection seems to come from catching covid once, followed by vaccination. Based on the data to hand anyway.
Goes without saying that choosing to boost your immunity by covid - when you could have the vaccine instead - would be a dumb decision for most people. Young kids being a probable exception.
Good response, thanks, I've only had it once (to my knowledge anyway) it was a hypothetical
Yes, in a perfect world you should be classed as just as well protected from recent infection or vaccination there should be no discrimination between the two for these covid passports.
Unfortunately its not guaranteed that you will be alive post natural infection or your quality of life would be the same as before infection. So it would be an issue morally going round telling people to catch the natural infection so they are trying to discourage this as much as possible.
You are correct in simple terms that post infection and vaccination should both be accepted if there was no politics at play.
Longer than that vs symptomatic illness. And still no evidence of waning vs sever illness/death.
Besides, booster did a great job of taking the edge off the delta wave. It could have got very nasty otherwise. Hopefully delta will be completely eradicated soon.
Again as a disclaimer, I don't wish to catch the new strain, I've had the first and was quite badly hit from it, I've recovered fully but also understand a lot haven't, this was purely hypothetical and appreciate the answers guys, thank you
I saw the data about how many times difference in Switzerland the other day (might of even been you who posted it)
Is this just because of the relative time the booster was given and we will all go back to the same baseline rather then it improving anything in the long term, has enough time even passed to answer this question?
That would be my thoughts anyway it certainly had its place for the vulnerable in this part of the pandemic not so sure it was necessary population wide apart from trying to ease disruption to society.
There could be a valid reason to get a 4th shot when the Omicron specific vaccine is ready to protect against any future nasty variants that come from that. I believe Moderna are in phase III trials and Phizer are aiming for March.
I also saw that Moderna are aiming for a combined COVID-19, influenza and RSV vaccine ready for Autumn next year with each element specifically targeted at what is around at the time (similar to influenza now). I can't see any reason not to do that annually as long as it's not a crazy cost to buy.
I also saw that Moderna are aiming for a combined COVID-19, influenza and RSV vaccine ready for Autumn next year with each element specifically targeted at what is around at the time (similar to influenza now). I can't see any reason not to do that annually as long as it's not a crazy cost to buy.
The trouble is that, it depends on how long ago you were infected, which variant and how powerful was your immune response at the time. We know that people with past infection + vaccination are better protected than those with vaccine alone or infection alone. Boosters also help both groups.
I've not seen data on a twice infected/no vaccine group as yet. In the UK at least they would be rarities, though I guess there are a lot more of them now - so maybe we'll know the answer next winter. That's always going to be an issue really, it's going to be hard to get evidence that's as up to date as the evidence we can get on the vaccinated.
Further shots could be to either keep active antibodies going so we don't have to rely on the slightly delayed reaction of memory cells or because a new vaccine, tweaked for Omicron (or anther new dominant variant), becomes available.
The former will be likely imo until most of the world is hugely vaccinated and we enter some sort of endemic state. The later until new variants stop arising, which is also largely dependent on vaccinating the world.
Looks like the majority of reported side effects aren't real
https://www.theguardian.com/science...eactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
https://www.theguardian.com/science...eactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
Boostered today after putting it off til we were back in work (get a half day off for it).
Briefed my boss there's a good chance I'll be sick tomorrow, having been sick after both previous doses and just worked through it.
He was fine with that, and told me, because I didn't take the half days for the first and second shots (was sick for 2 days after the second, but again, worked through it) my booster will be recorded as my first shot and I can take 2 more half days whenever suits.
Sweet!
Briefed my boss there's a good chance I'll be sick tomorrow, having been sick after both previous doses and just worked through it.
He was fine with that, and told me, because I didn't take the half days for the first and second shots (was sick for 2 days after the second, but again, worked through it) my booster will be recorded as my first shot and I can take 2 more half days whenever suits.
Sweet!