I will still happily vote for him if he has the better team, it is as simple as that.
The UEFA Euro Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter Balu
- Start date
I will still happily vote for him if he has the better team, it is as simple as that.
Effe 
So if you were doing a world cup draft. You'd pick El Hadji Diouf over Batistuta?
It's not because of having anything against the manager. If he continues to pick great players that never performed at the euros, how can anyone possibly justify voting for his team?
Batistuta was called out for being a flat track bully without any meaningful impact in the knockout stages during the World Cup draft and rightfully so, that's what he was.
Come on @Joga Bonito , post your pick along with a huge wall of text as usual to kill this discussion
There was nothing I could really say for Effenberg that people don't already know. 1. crappycraperson - 1. Platini 2. Figo 3. Tigana 4. Tardelli 5. Krol
2. Edgar Allan Pillow & MJJ & coolredwine - 1. Puskás 2. Masopust 3. Gullit 4. Breitner 5. Deschamps
3. Paolo Di Canio - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Blanc 3. Lev Yashin 4. van Nistelrooy 5. Gentile
4. The Stain - 1. Zidane 2. Czibor 3. Amancio 4. Förster 5. Zagorakis
5. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. van Basten 2. Netzer 3. Monti 4. Popluhár 5. Bonhof
6. Stobzilla - 1. Beckenbauer 2. B.Charlton 3. Bican 4. Gascoigne 5. Brian Laudrup
7. Joga Bonito - 1. Maldini 2. B.Moore 3. Sindelar 4. Bergomi 5. Effenberg
8. harms - 1. Dragan Džajić 2. Sárosi 3. Schuster 4. Voronin 5.
9. Aldo - 1. Xavi 2. Iniesta 3. Nedved 4. Lahm 5.
10. Raees & Gio - 1. Rijkaard 2. Facchetti 3. Kohler 4. Henry 5.
11. Theon & NM - 1. Matthäus 2. Bozsik 3. Davids 4. Desailly 5.
12. The Red Viper - 1. Gerd Müller 2. Sammer 3. Vieira 4. Shesternyov 5.
13. big red123 - 1. Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Stoichkov 4. Michael Laudrup 5.
14. Šjor Bepo & Physiocrat - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Nesta 3. Hidegkuti 4. Ivanov 5.
15. ctp - 1. Rummenigge 2. Scirea 3. Ocwirk 4. Mazzola 5.
16. PedroMendez - 1. Meazza 2. Thuram 3. Schmeichel 4. Netto 5.
@harms
Yeah, you are correct. Skizzo got it right. You will certainly get a good AM in Laudrup, but the 'world class' player that he was careerwise will not be considered. The point is he is not a bad player by any means...just that it was a bad pick, because the rules does not permit the best of him.
How can you prove to me how good Amancio was during Euro 64? I take it your using him as one of you 3 players? So he only played 2 games.
Luis Monti.
Yeah, and he didn't win it that year because Germany lost a penalty shootout, the only one we ever lost at all the World Cups and Euros
.He can send you a link to where you can download/watch the games, for example? I've been telling you this for ages, all footage from euros (1960 and so on) is available.
There are some problems with players from CEIC, apart from the most famous ones, but still, you can say a lot even from stats + descriptions + match reports.
By links to videos, stats and what has been written about him. How is this inconceivable to you? In hindsight, including the qualifications for those 2 tournaments might have been a good idea, though. Amaro scored 4 in 7 in qualification and i'll have a look to see if i can find assists at some point.
relax guys. The matches havnt started yet.
1. crappycraperson - 1. Platini 2. Figo 3. Tigana 4. Tardelli 5. Krol
2. Edgar Allan Pillow & MJJ & coolredwine - 1. Puskás 2. Masopust 3. Gullit 4. Breitner 5. Deschamps
3. Paolo Di Canio - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Blanc 3. Lev Yashin 4. van Nistelrooy 5. Gentile
4. The Stain - 1. Zidane 2. Czibor 3. Amancio 4. Förster 5. Zagorakis
5. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. van Basten 2. Netzer 3. Monti 4. Popluhár 5. Bonhof
6. Stobzilla - 1. Beckenbauer 2. B.Charlton 3. Bican 4. Gascoigne 5. Brian Laudrup
7. Joga Bonito - 1. Maldini 2. B.Moore 3. Sindelar 4. Bergomi 5. Effenberg
8. harms - 1. Dragan Džajić 2. Sárosi 3. Schuster 4. Voronin 5. Brehme
9. Aldo - 1. Xavi 2. Iniesta 3. Nedved 4. Lahm 5.
10. Raees & Gio - 1. Rijkaard 2. Facchetti 3. Kohler 4. Henry 5.
11. Theon & NM - 1. Matthäus 2. Bozsik 3. Davids 4. Desailly 5.
12. The Red Viper - 1. Gerd Müller 2. Sammer 3. Vieira 4. Shesternyov 5.
13. big red123 - 1. Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Stoichkov 4. Michael Laudrup 5.
14. Šjor Bepo & Physiocrat - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Nesta 3. Hidegkuti 4. Ivanov 5.
15. ctp - 1. Rummenigge 2. Scirea 3. Ocwirk 4. Mazzola 5.
16. PedroMendez - 1. Meazza 2. Thuram 3. Schmeichel 4. Netto 5.
@Aldo
I didn't include the qualifications, because it would have changed the playerpool quite signficantly and I didn't want players in the draft who never actually played in one of the final tournaments. I wouldn't mind if someone used the qualification games to further underly the quality of performances from the eligible players between 1960 and 1976 though, because 2 games really isn't much to go by. But every manager would have to agree to do that, because it wasn't part of the game when I started it. It would make sense to give it a bit more depth and I don't think it would take anything away from the standout performers in semifinals and finals.
Absolutely. And he was brilliant again in 1996 - second top scorer - in an otherwise lacklustre Denmark side.
ffs first Effe now Brehme, this game isnt fair
To add to the industry of Nedved, flair of Iniesta and control of Xavi, we add the elegance of "The Emperor".
Flórián Albert
About time.
1. crappycraperson - 1. Platini 2. Figo 3. Tigana 4. Tardelli 5. Krol
2. Edgar Allan Pillow & MJJ & coolredwine - 1. Puskás 2. Masopust 3. Gullit 4. Breitner 5. Deschamps
3. Paolo Di Canio - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Blanc 3. Lev Yashin 4. van Nistelrooy 5. Gentile
4. The Stain - 1. Zidane 2. Czibor 3. Amancio 4. Förster 5. Zagorakis
5. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. van Basten 2. Netzer 3. Monti 4. Popluhár 5. Bonhof
6. Stobzilla - 1. Beckenbauer 2. B.Charlton 3. Bican 4. Gascoigne 5. Brian Laudrup
7. Joga Bonito - 1. Maldini 2. B.Moore 3. Sindelar 4. Bergomi 5. Effenberg
8. harms - 1. Dragan Džajić 2. Sárosi 3. Schuster 4. Voronin 5. Brehme
9. Aldo - 1. Xavi 2. Iniesta 3. Nedved 4. Lahm 5.
10. Raees & Gio - 1. Rijkaard 2. Facchetti 3. Kohler 4. Henry 5.
11. Theon & NM - 1. Matthäus 2. Bozsik 3. Davids 4. Desailly 5.
12. The Red Viper - 1. Gerd Müller 2. Sammer 3. Vieira 4. Shesternyov 5.
13. big red123 - 1. Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Stoichkov 4. Michael Laudrup 5.
14. Šjor Bepo & Physiocrat - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Nesta 3. Hidegkuti 4. Ivanov 5.
15. ctp - 1. Rummenigge 2. Scirea 3. Ocwirk 4. Mazzola 5.
16. PedroMendez - 1. Meazza 2. Thuram 3. Schmeichel 4. Netto 5.
@Aldo
1. crappycraperson - 1. Platini 2. Figo 3. Tigana 4. Tardelli 5. Krol
2. Edgar Allan Pillow & MJJ & coolredwine - 1. Puskás 2. Masopust 3. Gullit 4. Breitner 5. Deschamps
3. Paolo Di Canio - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Blanc 3. Lev Yashin 4. van Nistelrooy 5. Gentile
4. The Stain - 1. Zidane 2. Czibor 3. Amancio 4. Förster 5. Zagorakis
5. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. van Basten 2. Netzer 3. Monti 4. Popluhár 5. Bonhof
6. Stobzilla - 1. Beckenbauer 2. B.Charlton 3. Bican 4. Gascoigne 5. Brian Laudrup
7. Joga Bonito - 1. Maldini 2. B.Moore 3. Sindelar 4. Bergomi 5. Effenberg
8. harms - 1. Dragan Džajić 2. Sárosi 3. Schuster 4. Voronin 5. Brehme
9. Aldo - 1. Xavi 2. Iniesta 3. Nedved 4. Lahm 5. Albert
10. Raees & Gio - 1. Rijkaard 2. Facchetti 3. Kohler 4. Henry 5.
11. Theon & NM - 1. Matthäus 2. Bozsik 3. Davids 4. Desailly 5.
12. The Red Viper - 1. Gerd Müller 2. Sammer 3. Vieira 4. Shesternyov 5.
13. big red123 - 1. Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Stoichkov 4. Michael Laudrup 5.
14. Šjor Bepo & Physiocrat - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Nesta 3. Hidegkuti 4. Ivanov 5.
15. ctp - 1. Rummenigge 2. Scirea 3. Ocwirk 4. Mazzola 5.
16. PedroMendez - 1. Meazza 2. Thuram 3. Schmeichel 4. Netto 5.
@Raees @Gio
2. Edgar Allan Pillow & MJJ & coolredwine - 1. Puskás 2. Masopust 3. Gullit 4. Breitner 5. Deschamps
3. Paolo Di Canio - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Blanc 3. Lev Yashin 4. van Nistelrooy 5. Gentile
4. The Stain - 1. Zidane 2. Czibor 3. Amancio 4. Förster 5. Zagorakis
5. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. van Basten 2. Netzer 3. Monti 4. Popluhár 5. Bonhof
6. Stobzilla - 1. Beckenbauer 2. B.Charlton 3. Bican 4. Gascoigne 5. Brian Laudrup
7. Joga Bonito - 1. Maldini 2. B.Moore 3. Sindelar 4. Bergomi 5. Effenberg
8. harms - 1. Dragan Džajić 2. Sárosi 3. Schuster 4. Voronin 5. Brehme
9. Aldo - 1. Xavi 2. Iniesta 3. Nedved 4. Lahm 5. Albert
10. Raees & Gio - 1. Rijkaard 2. Facchetti 3. Kohler 4. Henry 5.
11. Theon & NM - 1. Matthäus 2. Bozsik 3. Davids 4. Desailly 5.
12. The Red Viper - 1. Gerd Müller 2. Sammer 3. Vieira 4. Shesternyov 5.
13. big red123 - 1. Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Stoichkov 4. Michael Laudrup 5.
14. Šjor Bepo & Physiocrat - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Nesta 3. Hidegkuti 4. Ivanov 5.
15. ctp - 1. Rummenigge 2. Scirea 3. Ocwirk 4. Mazzola 5.
16. PedroMendez - 1. Meazza 2. Thuram 3. Schmeichel 4. Netto 5.
@Raees @Gio
Aldo knows his stuff .
.I don't see this just from draft point of view
Lots of time, we tend to try and fit into society on what is assumed to be norm, even though it contradicts with what we actually want. Those like big red123 stay true to themselves (or at least that is what I thought) despite appearing to be rebellious. He does has his unpopular opinion, but not because he purposely wants to create trouble or make a mockery of everyone. Though it is just cyber world, he is still the same from the day I know him, so I compliment him for that
As for this draft, I can argue that despite player A played well in Euro, he needed his teammates to support him, and played in specific role in specific system. With different players around him, he might not be able to perform as good as he did. Same goes for other way round. It is not that straightforward
Yeah we were mulling over Albert, trying to ascertain whether he took his World Cup form into the Euros. He was a lovely player.Aldo knows his stuff
Yes...but without getting into an actual 'Stuta debate here (opinions on him will be divided, no doubt), this thing is a bit different – what if 'Stuta was an undisputed monster at club level (let's say he singlehandedly won a couple of major trophies)? He wasn't - as we know. Which explains your stance on him, in general - right? If he had actually proven himself in the latter sense you couldn't call him a flat track bully and get away with it - but you could still claim he was nothing special as a WC player.
What we have here are a handful of undoubtedly great players, who performed brilliantly in other settings, but for some reason or another failed to impress in the one tournament (in various guises, granted, but we still treat it as one setting) which matters.
In the spirit of the draft (and as per the explicitly stated premise, for that matter), what counts here is the player's Euro level – not a damn thing besides that. What he did elsewhere is, actually, irrelevant. You could sport a player on Pele's level – and it still wouldn't matter if his Euro performances were lackluster.
I think some managers fail to realize how easy it might be to argue certain players under the table, given the premise of the draft. Then again, as always, it comes to down to the voters. If they fail to grasp what the draft is actually about, they may simply ignore the premise – and you could get away with sporting an underwhelming world beater or two. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
The qualifications could possibly be included for the players that played at the 60 and 64. It could be somewhat unfair though to the managers that have already picked these types, so all managers would have to agree with it.
If he wants to try to fool the voters, then hell, that's his prerogative. And for the last bit; we are all obviously trying to pick players that will compliment eachother. No, it isn't straight forward but here they will be playing with players that also had great tournaments. Probably better ones than their team mates. It won't be about how they hypothetically would perform with the draft team players.
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Yeah. We have a set of rules, explained what we want to achieve with this draft, but you can't stop the voters (be it the managers or scan voters or whoever) from having their own interpretation on the performance level in this set-up. It's the same as it is with the short peak vs very short peak vs longevity discussion we had countless times. Don't overcomplicate the voting, try to enjoy the draft and accept if not everyone shares your opinion on how peak form should be determined here. It's impossible to get everyone in the same small boat. Most of the time it worked out well anyway and all the drama in the draft threads was pretty pointless
No reason to be so anal about things. It’s absolutely reasonable to argue for/against players, who performed vastly different in the EC compared to the rest of their career. Still its simple impossible to completely ignore everything but EC matches.
We´ll all have slightly different criteria and that’s totally fine. I fancy team cohesion and playing players in their best role. Others focus on mismatches, individual class or other aspects. The most important thing is, that the managers stay consistent. Don’t argue one way in match A and the other way around in match B.
We´ll all have slightly different criteria and that’s totally fine. I fancy team cohesion and playing players in their best role. Others focus on mismatches, individual class or other aspects. The most important thing is, that the managers stay consistent. Don’t argue one way in match A and the other way around in match B.
- Player A performs best in Set up X. If you play that set up you get best. If you don't you don't get the best. Less subjective.
- Player B did not have a good Euro at all. So even if you tinker with set up, it's still is subjective to argue he'll somehow be better.
From a manager point of view, choosing option 1 above is easier to argue and convince voters.
In this context for bigred, Laudrup would still continue to be a good player, but if he's looking for a match winner to outclass his opponent, Laudrup won't cut it.
First and foremost i'll take EURO performances in to account. Rest of career, WC performances etc won't mean squat to me. Then it'll be if their playing in the position they played most in. Then match ups.
BRANKO ZEBEC
One of greatest players in Yugoslavian history. True leader, fast thinker, understood the game perfectly. Because of that, he played very, very good on almost every position in the field.
He was tall (for '40s and '50s), tough and a little bit skinny, but with muscles. He began his senior career when he was only 16 years old. Almost immediately he got chance to play left winger for the first team (instead of much older and experienced players).
Player with great acceleration, speed and mobility. He could ran 100m for 11s, in football boots (in the rank with the best Yugoslavian sprinters back in the late '40s and early '50s). Zebec played very good with his head and he was very calm in important moments (for example, when he was 19-20 years old, he scored 3 goals in decisive match for the title, two with his head). Beside the fact he was very, very fast, he was also very strong in duels and practically unstoppable on the left side. Zebec wasn't too sophisticated technical player, but he controlled ball very well with his left leg. In the game he was very brave and rational as well. Never made a move too much, used dribble only when it's necessary. For him, simplicity was a road to perfection (he achieved perfection in many, many games). Zebec really believed in his abilities on the court and he always gave his best in each and every game.
He occasionally played as a little bit defensive CF (very successfully). Against France he played as defensive CF, who had assignment to go back to defense, and guard Raymond Kopa (Real Madrid player at the time). He did that so successfully, that it seemed that Kopa didn't played at all. On the same game he also played very good in the attack, and journalists gave him 10, for his perfect game.
After all that, he was transformed into a CB (but he also continued to play as winger/attacker, wing half and full-back) and he was very good on that position. During the one of the most important games for the national team (qualifications for World Cup 1958), in which Yugoslavia played against Romania he played as CB. Many claim that this was his best game for national team at that position. Every high ball was his (very superior in the air), he won every 1 on 1 play against opposite attacker, also during the game he was in every place in the defense. In one word: Perfection! One of the coaches came to him after the game, grab his shoulder and said: "Are you a man or are you a beast? I've never seen anybody playing the whole 90 minutes so perfect and without any mistake!"
After his first game for national team in CB position (a few games before the one I mentioned before), many foreign journalists and football experts wrote that he's one of the greatest discoveries in CB and libero position (CWP) and that he played in those positions even better than on his original position. Many journalists, football experts, coaches and players, from 1950s, agree that Zebec was the best center-half during that era. Some of them even said, that he should be among Best 11 squad of all times.
One of greatest players in Yugoslavian history. True leader, fast thinker, understood the game perfectly. Because of that, he played very, very good on almost every position in the field.
He was tall (for '40s and '50s), tough and a little bit skinny, but with muscles. He began his senior career when he was only 16 years old. Almost immediately he got chance to play left winger for the first team (instead of much older and experienced players).
Player with great acceleration, speed and mobility. He could ran 100m for 11s, in football boots (in the rank with the best Yugoslavian sprinters back in the late '40s and early '50s). Zebec played very good with his head and he was very calm in important moments (for example, when he was 19-20 years old, he scored 3 goals in decisive match for the title, two with his head). Beside the fact he was very, very fast, he was also very strong in duels and practically unstoppable on the left side. Zebec wasn't too sophisticated technical player, but he controlled ball very well with his left leg. In the game he was very brave and rational as well. Never made a move too much, used dribble only when it's necessary. For him, simplicity was a road to perfection (he achieved perfection in many, many games). Zebec really believed in his abilities on the court and he always gave his best in each and every game.
He occasionally played as a little bit defensive CF (very successfully). Against France he played as defensive CF, who had assignment to go back to defense, and guard Raymond Kopa (Real Madrid player at the time). He did that so successfully, that it seemed that Kopa didn't played at all. On the same game he also played very good in the attack, and journalists gave him 10, for his perfect game.
After all that, he was transformed into a CB (but he also continued to play as winger/attacker, wing half and full-back) and he was very good on that position. During the one of the most important games for the national team (qualifications for World Cup 1958), in which Yugoslavia played against Romania he played as CB. Many claim that this was his best game for national team at that position. Every high ball was his (very superior in the air), he won every 1 on 1 play against opposite attacker, also during the game he was in every place in the defense. In one word: Perfection! One of the coaches came to him after the game, grab his shoulder and said: "Are you a man or are you a beast? I've never seen anybody playing the whole 90 minutes so perfect and without any mistake!"
After his first game for national team in CB position (a few games before the one I mentioned before), many foreign journalists and football experts wrote that he's one of the greatest discoveries in CB and libero position (CWP) and that he played in those positions even better than on his original position. Many journalists, football experts, coaches and players, from 1950s, agree that Zebec was the best center-half during that era. Some of them even said, that he should be among Best 11 squad of all times.
Poor stamina.
Crap, really really wanted Zebec!
That makes the blow of losing Florian a little sweeter, thank you.Crap, really really wanted Zebec!
If you include qualification then Cruyff is the best player in the draft.
I'll be expecting all these.
Thanks for telling, then i'd rather we didn't include qualification.
Right back at ya.
I will be actively not supplying them.