The Trump Presidency - Part 2

Invasion won’t happen, but the US could groom Greenland to come to their side, which is what they have started. And there is already an established process for Greenlandic independence - if that gets overwhelming support among its people, I don’t think there is much the Danish parliament can do beyond negotiating the terms.

And I still don’t see what it is you think European leaders should do right now. Start heavily criticizing Trump or threatening with some kind of diplomatic response?
Exactly. And not just diplomatic. Regarding trade, Usa needs Europe the same (if not even more) than Europe needs them. Europe, IF stands together (big, big if that) is equal to USA.

As you said, they already started to stir shit up in Greenland. That surely deserves some kind of reaction.
 
This post is a tad hysterical. Some countries in particular have been slow, yes, but we  are talking about a very large increase in Europe's spending.
Nowhere near enough, 2% is basically only enough to maintain the existing forces and considering years / decades of underspending huge gaps have formed in the European militaries, so you need to increase the spending massively from the current levels just to shore it all up let alone to build on top of it. I don’t think you realize how run down most European Nato militaries are in reality…
 
Exactly. And not just diplomatic. Regarding trade, Usa needs Europe the same (if not even more) than Europe needs them. Europe, IF stands together (big, big if that) is equal to USA.

As you said, they already started to stir shit up in Greenland. That surely deserves some kind of reaction.
You can’t seriously expect other European nations to hurt their economies by sanctioning the US over this Greenland debacle? I certainly don’t.

The worst Denmark could do alone would probably be to withhold Ozempic and Wegowy from Americans and blame Trump for it. Would be hilarious, although hugely expensive.
 
I don’t think you realize how run down most European Nato militaries are in reality…
And I don't think you realize the historical context for why this is the case. If the US wanted a militarily strong Europe they shouldn't have built bases all over it while doing their utmost to undermine the industrial base supporting it. That's why the whole spending critique is ridiculous, and they know it. They have us exactly where they want us, dependent and pliant. Trump doesn't want Europe to build up its own industrial base, he wants the increased public spending to be used on US equipment, propping up their industrial base, making us even more dependent on them.

You're right we're really run down, but the simplistic Trump rhetoric that it's simply because we're cheap and don't want to spend money on defense is silly. It doesn't change the reality that we are weak, but no European should buy into the idea that the US would like us to be militarily self sufficient. They don't.
 
And I don't think you realize the historical context for why this is the case. If the US wanted a militarily strong Europe they shouldn't have built bases all over it while doing their utmost to undermine the industrial base supporting it. That's why the whole spending critique is ridiculous, and they know it. They have us exactly where they want us, dependent and pliant. Trump doesn't want Europe to build up its own industrial base, he wants the increased public spending to be used on US equipment, propping up their industrial base, making us even more dependent on them.

You're right we're really run down, but the simplistic Trump rhetoric that it's simply because we're cheap and don't want to spend money on defense is silly. It doesn't change the reality that we are weak, but no European should buy into the idea that the US would like us to be militarily self sufficient. They don't.
I agree to an extent on why we have the current state of affairs but I couldn’t care less about Trump in all honesty we need a much stronger Europe and that includes strong military to be able to stand on our own in these volatile times, it is only going to get worse.
 
I agree to an extent on why we have the current state of affairs but I couldn’t care less about Trump in all honesty we need a much stronger Europe and that includes strong military to be able to stand on our own in these volatile times, it is only going to get worse.
I agree, but that would require rebalancing the relationship with the US, which I'm not sure we're capable of at this point. And even if we were, we'd then be considered a competitor instead of a friendly vassal, with all the consequences that would have. I share the dream though.
 
I agree, but that would require rebalancing the relationship with the US, which I'm not sure we're capable of at this point. And even if we were, we'd then be considered a competitor instead of a friendly vassal, with all the consequences that would have. I share the dream though.
It might get back to normal once we’re past the 2nd Trumo term, but strategically I think we should re-think this relationship as US can no longer be relied upon going forwards, we will always be one Trump away from this nonense but to achieve that you’ve got to have military and energy independence. All the money wasted on green initiatives should be redirected to more pressing matters in my opinion as the rest of the world simply doesn’t give a flying and we can really leave ourselves behind quite badly.
 
And I don't think you realize the historical context for why this is the case. If the US wanted a militarily strong Europe they shouldn't have built bases all over it while doing their utmost to undermine the industrial base supporting it. That's why the whole spending critique is ridiculous, and they know it. They have us exactly where they want us, dependent and pliant. Trump doesn't want Europe to build up its own industrial base, he wants the increased public spending to be used on US equipment, propping up their industrial base, making us even more dependent on them.

You're right we're really run down, but the simplistic Trump rhetoric that it's simply because we're cheap and don't want to spend money on defense is silly. It doesn't change the reality that we are weak, but no European should buy into the idea that the US would like us to be militarily self sufficient. They don't.
How has the industrial base been undermined?
 
You can’t seriously expect other European nations to hurt their economies by sanctioning the US over this Greenland debacle? I certainly don’t.

The worst Denmark could do alone would probably be to withhold Ozempic and Wegowy from Americans and blame Trump for it. Would be hilarious, although hugely expensive.

Wouldn't do too much, there's already bunch of generic semaglutide around now, Im on it but it comes from Florida
 
How has the industrial base been undermined?
By creating a depency on the US through the creation of NATO. By making massive amounts of aid contigent on US market access. By pushing the EU as a concept in itself, eliminating internal European competition. By using political pressure to make various govermnents favour US producers over European ones.

The list is long, and of course it's not all done for nefarious reasons. Good empire management, if anything.

It might get back to normal once we’re past the 2nd Trumo term, but strategically I think we should re-think this relationship as US can no longer be relied upon going forwards, we will always be one Trump away from this nonense but to achieve that you’ve got to have military and energy independence. All the money wasted on green initiatives should be redirected to more pressing matters in my opinion as the rest of the world simply doesn’t give a flying and we can really leave ourselves behind quite badly.
I'm not very optimistic about it, but I agree.
 
What kind of reaction do you think would be appropriate? Our elected leaders have to keep up the facade and say the right things. We’re a tiny nation, the US is a massive trading partner, and Trump is vindictive and childish.
Where’s your fighting spirit. Do the words John Jensen and Mads Mikkelsen mean nothing to you!?

Are the good people of Denmark going to lay down and spread open their nations legs so the
snake of Yankee imperialism can have its way?!

The imperialist mind is a simple one and it deeply fears having its treats taken away. Increase the price of legos by 200% and you will have every middle age American male rebel against their fascist leaders.

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By creating a depency on the US through the creation of NATO. By making massive amounts of aid contigent on US market access. By pushing the EU as a concept in itself, eliminating internal European competition. By using political pressure to make various govermnents favour US producers over European ones.

The list is long, and of course it's not all done for nefarious reasons. Good empire management, if anything.


I'm not very optimistic about it, but I agree.

NATO didn’t create a dependency on the US that wasn’t already there to begin with, and there’s nothing about NATO preventing countries from investing as they should in defense, there’s plenty of European suppliers to choose from and plenty of them also deliver equipment to US. How has EU eliminated internal European competition?

Political pressure to secure contracts is nothing new, happens at every level of the game. It’s like when we give massive new build contracts to shipyards in Korea but a large % of the equipment onboard has to come from Norwegian suppliers.
 
Where’s your fighting spirit. Do the words John Jensen and Mads Mikkelsen mean nothing to you!?

Are the good people of Denmark going to lay down and spread open their nations legs so the
snake of Yankee imperialism can have its way?!

The imperialist mind is a simple one and it deeply fears having its treats taken away. Increase the price of legos by 200% and you will have every middle age American male rebel against their fascist leaders.
I have a feeling that the median Trump supporter isn't the kind to spend his weekends assembling his $400 LEGO Death Star :(

If we can't take away their obesity medication, I don't know what we realistically take from them. Maybe we can convince Lars to leave Metallica.
 
NATO didn’t create a dependency on the US that wasn’t already there to begin with,
And it just lasted since the 1940s without the US doing anything to make sure it stayed that way? European countries are just too cheap and exploiting the goodwill of the US? Right.

there’s nothing about NATO preventing countries from investing as they should in defense
Except a political situation disincentivising it.

How has EU eliminated internal European competition?
By doing just that. Why should any European country not bordering Russia spend money on defence?

Political pressure to secure contracts is nothing new, happens at every level of the game.
That is true. But the country asserting that pressure then doesn't usually complain that the buyer doesn't have their own industry, or that they did in fact not buy enough to their liking.
 
Invasion won’t happen, but the US could groom Greenland to come to their side, which is what they have started. And there is already an established process for Greenlandic independence - if that gets overwhelming support among its people, I don’t think there is much the Danish parliament can do beyond negotiating the terms.

And I still don’t see what it is you think European leaders should do right now. Start heavily criticizing Trump or threatening with some kind of diplomatic response?
Panama can double tolls on US ships. Denmark can expel all American military personnel from Greenland.
 
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Invasion won’t happen, but the US could groom Greenland to come to their side, which is what they have started. And there is already an established process for Greenlandic independence - if that gets overwhelming support among its people, I don’t think there is much the Danish parliament can do beyond negotiating the terms.

And I still don’t see what it is you think European leaders should do right now. Start heavily criticizing Trump or threatening with some kind of diplomatic response?
Laugh and point would probably be the appropriate response as Trump is just shitposting.

How have we got to this that the President of the most powerful country is an impulse challenged giant toddler?
 
Fun NATO fact ....

The biggest % of GDP spent by a NATO member is not the USA, and neither is the second most %

23 out of 32 do meet the 2%, Canada is not one of them intertestingly which might explain Trump's stance
 
The population of Greenland is around 50,000. A million to each person will cost just 50 billion which I am sure would sway more than 50% of the population. How much would Denmark want to sell Greenland?

It is not going to happen but surely Trump is going to actually try to buy Greenland this time.
 
And it just lasted since the 1940s without the US doing anything to make sure it stayed that way? European countries are just too cheap and exploiting the goodwill of the US? Right.


Except a political situation disincentivising it.


By doing just that. Why should any European country not bordering Russia spend money on defence?


That is true. But the country asserting that pressure then doesn't usually complain that the buyer doesn't have their own industry, or that they did in fact not buy enough to their liking.

You’re funny, and you’re also throwing out daft claims that you seemingly can’t back up with anything else than «because that’s how it is»
 
The population of Greenland is around 50,000. A million to each person will cost just 50 billion which I am sure would sway more than 50% of the population. How much would Denmark want to sell Greenland?

It is not going to happen but surely Trump is going to actually try to buy Greenland this time.
Denmark can't sell Greenland. By greenland law, they can declare independence from denmark if they wish and denmark could not oppose (if not by force and against the law) Majority of greenlandic people wants independence but a bigger majority don't want it if that means lowering the living standards.

Your 1 million per capita could do the trick, but denmark would have 0 saying
 
I met a lot of family and friends from USA over the Christmas period. All these people are South Asian. Just a few observations on how they voted:
1) Doctor from California earning over 300k and about to retire. Her and her husband voted Trump. They are on a diet of Facebook/Twitter news and went on a rant about "Wuhan Virus". These are highly educated people yet still fell for the news.
2) 4 siblings and their families, mostly professionals (engineers, doctors, researchers) in Texas, New York, and Virginia. One of their 12 year old came home from school saying they think they are a girl in a boy's body. They blamed Democrats for this confusion and all of them voted Trump as well. LGBT issues have resulted in a lot of minorities/religious vote going to Trump they told me.
3) People in tech in Silicon valley. Not surprisingly all voted Trump because they want their stocks to go higher.
4) Family mostly doing gigs (delivery, Uber, etc.). All voted Trump because economy was better under Trump and crime was lower. They got robbed recently.

I was surprised how big a net Trump has cast. Other than Group 1, none of the other people were into politics at all.

Edit: Group 2 and 4 had previously voted Democrat.
 
1) Doctor from California earning over 300k and about to retire. Her and her husband voted Trump. They are on a diet of Facebook/Twitter news and went on a rant about "Wuhan Virus". These are highly educated people yet still fell for the news.
Depends on the rant, but isn’t there quite a lot of support for the theory that covid was an accidental mishap from a lab?
 
What will happen to Lego if USA invades Denmark?
Denmark can set a trap in the winter when its' always dark by pouring millions of small Lego pieces all over Danish soil. That'll teach those pesky Yank invaders
 
All the money wasted on green initiatives should be redirected to more pressing matters in my opinion
Because climate change isn’t a pressing matter? The rest of the world - India, Brazil, African countries - will rightly feel they don’t have any obligation at all to pay for climate initiatives until the West show a willingness to do more. China certainly doesn’t seem to think it’s a waste to invest in green energy either, though they keep building coal plants as well.
Also, climate policy can’t be separated from energy independence and the security question anymore. Europe needs to invest in alternative energy. It’s imperative and at least as important as defense which, though more spending is needed, really isn’t an imminent concern - while certain politicians, institutions and Russia itself have an interest in making them seem strong and willing to do anything, their military capacity and economic basis are eroding quickly. Even before the invasion they had much, much bigger problems than most European countries, not to mention the EU as a whole.
 
Denmark can't sell Greenland. By greenland law, they can declare independence from denmark if they wish and denmark could not oppose (if not by force and against the law) Majority of greenlandic people wants independence but a bigger majority don't want it if that means lowering the living standards.

Your 1 million per capita could do the trick, but denmark would have 0 saying
How Denmark found themselves in that shitty situation? Why they signed that kind of treaty with Greenland? They had Murtough to negotiate terms?

You can hate or love Trump but move for Greenland (not by force of course) is genius move in fact from USA perspective.
 
A thought just occurred to me…Greenland is obviously a huge landmass but I’d say Trump thinks its depiction in the typical Mercator projection map is its actual size. YUGE!!!
 
The population of Greenland is around 50,000. A million to each person will cost just 50 billion which I am sure would sway more than 50% of the population. How much would Denmark want to sell Greenland?

It is not going to happen but surely Trump is going to actually try to buy Greenland this time.
they’d only spend it on whale blubber and pictures of their cousins.
 
Can someone tell Trump that Greenland is in fact not that green, nor is it suitable for year-round golf?