The Trump Presidency - Part 2

As JD Vance takes ski weekend in Vermont, protesters give him the cold shoulder
More than 700 protesters stood on sidewalks and snowbanks along Route 100, cheering, singing and holding signs aloft. The demonstration, staged in front of gas stations and a skiwear shop, slowed traffic as what appeared to be mostly supportive motorists honked their approval.
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Trump supporters staged a counterprotest here in Warren, and some drove past the Waitsfield protest blaring their horns in disapproval. Anthony Levine, 50, of Barre, was among them, riding in the backseat of a gray pickup truck bearing Trump flags early Saturday morning.
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https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/03/01/metro/jd-vance-vermont-visit-sugarbush-resort/
 
RexHamilton said:
Side A - Awful on an issue I’m passionate about

Side B - Every bit as awful on the issue I’m passionate about and demonstrably more awful on a whole host of other issues.
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Vote for a third candidate and you get destroyed too.

If you have moral inclination to vote, a vote for the one which is moral, let's say Stein for hypothetical, people will just pretend you voted for Trump because the Democrats are so right wing banker centralist and morally bankrupt that they cannot win a fecking election. It's the DNC's fault over a long period of time if you really want to get into it. They failed to give people an alternative when one did exist. They actively destroyed that alternative (Sanders). But it goes back longer.

Also, this side-ist stuff does what it doesn't say on the tin. Divides people. You are looking at a class based political system. The only analysis I care about will address these class issues systematically. That doesn't exist in "side A/B".
 
IncyWincySpider said:
I hope the people who didn't vote are enjoying what they didn't vote for.
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There really needs to be some couter balance in US politics. An actual alternative option. There is only so many times you can ask an increasingly large section of voters to just vote against something before they give up and either check out or get swept-up by populist con-men with unprecedented power to manipulate people's psyche subliminaly.
 
afrocentricity said:
The thing is..... How do they think things got this far? .... and that he's gotten so brazen?
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His supporters don’t care that’s the thing.

They’re satisfied as long as he keeps “winning” the culture war.
 
We should ban this whole deontology vs utilitarianism discussion as it relates to voting in this thread. Been done to death and we all know where everyone stands by now.
 
Mike Smalling said:
We should ban this whole deontology vs utilitarianism discussion as it relates to voting in this thread. Been done to death and we all know where everyone stands by now.
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Very much agree. There are some good points to be made either way, but they've been sufficiently made already. And there are probably other threads where they can continue.
 
Mike Smalling said:
We should ban this whole deontology vs utilitarianism discussion as it relates to voting in this thread. Been done to death and we all know where everyone stands by now.
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It's just hard not to reply to the once per page "oh but the idiots who didn't vote harris ahah" strawman posts. I know it's bait but...
 
maniak said:
It's just hard not to reply to the once per page "oh but the idiots who didn't vote harris ahah" strawman posts. I know it's bait but...
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Everyone should vote on whether that stuff is off topic or not.

People who don't are obviously ok with it being in the thread.
 
Bert_ said:
There really needs to be some couter balance in US politics. An actual alternative option. There is only so many times you can ask an increasingly large section of voters to just vote against something before they give up and either check out or get swept-up by populist con-men with unprecedented power to manipulate people's psyche subliminaly.
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I think it does exist. What doesn’t though is an equally effective messaging approach.

It’s challenging because to give a balanced truthful view which captures nuance is difficult to do in a way that resonates like a short bullshit slogan purposefully designed to land a message true or false.

It’s also hard when many of the organisations that spread messages are inclined to support the right.

And, let’s be honest, the democrats have been shamefully slow to the table in social media communication and messaging.

Democrats definitely could have a better message - I definitely agree - but for me, the gap in messaging capabilities at this time is the stark difference.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
What I think might be happening here is that Trump, or the people behind him, have fully accepted that climate change is real and happening.

But, because of their neo-mercantilist, ultra nationalist persuasion, instead of trying to work with the world to reduce and eventually change course, they view everything as a zero sum game and to win, they have to simply capture as much natural resources as possible before things get worse in 10-20 years. Plunging things more toward a dystopia of haves and have nots that they believe they will control as technocrats.

Or maybe I just watched the latest episode of Paradise and I'm thinking too much like a sci wifi writer.
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Read this, and was listening to a podcast about good movies with right-wing politics. Ghostbusters, with the EPA as villain, came up. Someone mentioned something about Reagan's EPA chief, i looked it up, and,

Watt came to office flaunting a born-again religious persona that he often exploited to justify treating political and environmental opponents with contempt, prefiguring the rise of the evangelical right wing in American politics. Asked at a House committee hearing in 1981 to give his view of his agency’s statutory responsibility to act as a steward of natural resources for future generations, he replied, “I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns.”

Watt also should be remembered for his malign approach to California’s environmental concerns, particularly those related to offshore oil drilling. In 1982, he proposed to lease the entire outer continental shelf of 1 billion acres to oil and gas drillers.

Watt, a Wyoming native, consistently took the side of ranchers and growers who resented federal regulation of their access to public lands in the West. He proclaimed himself a partisan of the Sagebrush Rebellion, a political movement that had backed Reagan’s presidential campaign.

Watt stated bluntly, as was his style, that he would “always err on the side of public use versus preservation.” Reminded again that his department was entrusted with the stewardship of natural resources, he replied: “My concept of stewardship is to invest in it. ... Do we have to buy enough land so that you can go backpacking and never see anyone else?”
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obviously trump and musk aren't religious at all, but interesting to see that conservative insane fanaticism and deregulatory zeal has been in power before too.
 
afrocentricity said:
Honestly if I hear someone else state 'it's Trump, you have to play the game, compliment and butter him up and pretend to be his deferential buddy......'

Why? What is this shit?
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Because we must never ever annoy our big yankee overlord. It's disgusting.
 
Reditus said:
All European leaders are scared shitless of Trump 2.0

It’s different this term
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Not scared enough to not back ukraine though, it seems.

Although the only way to "work with" Trump is to act like his little lap dog when you visit him. A new kind of poltiics. :lol:
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Not scared enough to not back ukraine though, it seems.

Although the only way to "work with" Trump is to act like his little lap dog when you visit him. A new kind of poltiics. :lol:
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He’s been watching too much Game of Thrones…..got to bend the knee and show everyone he’s the top dog.

I’m surprised Vance didn’t demand it when he was frothing at the mouth.
 
afrocentricity said:
The thing is..... How do they think things got this far? .... and that he's gotten so brazen?
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Oh don't get me wrong. I don't condone playing this game. I am explaining that brownosing trump is playing the bullies game. Then it depends on the decency of the individuals, how much you gain, how much you lose and how much forced are you to play this game

Some people has no morals, don't care of looking as a bitch as long they gain what they want/can and hope that they are not chuck away when they are not useful anymore
Some people has morals, but have little/no other option or there is too much risk of not playing that game
Some people, regardless or morals, has little to gain or lose so they prefer to be out of the way just in case

This simply sucks. We are talking of the mightiest economy, the mightiest army and the country that controls the SWIFT international banking system, the de facto international currency and many more intricacies which they own control and the rest of the world has to say yes sir.

After the WWII, the US dealt with soft power with the West and beyond because they wanted to avoid countries destroyed by the war to fall under soviet influence. Also a lot of ties with europeans 1st and 2nd generation. After the end of the cold war it kept going and now we have an american (and european) society that collectively forgot about the WWII, with more distance ties with european identity and no need to protect europe from the soviet menace. So Trump it is exerting the hard power because he can. For me it just looks like a typical american high school movie from the 80s/90s where Trump is the quarterback (not because of him, but US power) and marcos rubio and others are the slimy sycophants in the team and they are bullying the entire school (whichever country crosses his way). Because they can and no one can oppose them at any level. Fortunately, high school only lasts 4 years and lets hope he doesn't destroy the school when he graduates
 
moses said:
So is deciding that other people's morals don't exist.
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It might have been a poor choice of words on my part, but I think that my point still stands.

Too many are still playing the blame game instead of looking at the reasons why people didn't vote for Harris.
 
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Red in STL said:
I think it did, it gave some people the excuse not to vote on 'moral' grounds, whether that made the difference is debatable, probably not but it certainly played a role
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Gotta love the wording here.

Her constant refusal to acknowledge that category of voters told us more about her as a human being than why she lost the elections. It was a PR faux-pas that certainly did cost her some votes, but I highly doubt that her losing all the swing states and the popular vote, by some margin, had anything to do with Gaza. Its impact on the elections is overblown, intentionally in some cases.

If I was American, I would've certainly exerced my constitutional rights and voted, according to what I personally deem right. That's the basic principle of democracy. And in this case, it would have been neither blue nor red.
 
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That_Bloke said:
Gotta love the wording here.

Her constant refusal to acknowledge that category of voters, told us more about her as a human being than why she lost the elections. It was a PR faux-pas that certainly did cost her some votes, but I highly doubt that her losing all the swing states and the popular vote, by a margin, had anything to do with Gaza.

If I was American, I would've certainly exerced my constitutional rights and voted, according to what I personally deem right. That's the basic principle of democracy. And in this case, it would have been neither blue nor red.
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I agree that this "blaming" people who voted their conscience on the Gaza stuff needs to end.

For 2 reasons:
1) At least they voted, even if you disagree - and believe me I DO DISAGREE with them, but it's their right. At least they read the news and were engaged and took a position, rightly or wrongly. I believe the majority of Americans didn't even vote and getting upset at that is like an old man yelling at the wind right now. IF you didn't vote, or have a position, they aren't reading this.
2) The deepest, darkest secret came out in the exit polling and some TV program/reading I did that I don't have links to, but it basically came down to this. Trump won because of those COVID stimulus checks where he had the treasury department print his name on them. There was a massive swing in his favour. Most Americans have never got a check from the government, for free, except for those they received from Trump. This is why he's looking into "DOGE checks". If you give someone who doesn't have shit a few thousand dollars, they'll vote for you. If Joe Biden had signed checks, things might be different.
 
0161_UNITED said:
I agree that this "blaming" people who voted their conscience on the Gaza stuff needs to end.

For 2 reasons:
1) At least they voted, even if you disagree - and believe me I DO DISAGREE with them, but it's their right. At least they read the news and were engaged and took a position, rightly or wrongly. I believe the majority of Americans didn't even vote and getting upset at that is like an old man yelling at the wind right now. IF you didn't vote, or have a position, they aren't reading this.
2) The deepest, darkest secret came out in the exit polling and some TV program/reading I did that I don't have links to, but it basically came down to this. Trump won because of those COVID stimulus checks where he had the treasury department print his name on them. There was a massive swing in his favour. Most Americans have never got a check from the government, for free, except for those they received from Trump. This is why he's looking into "DOGE checks". If you give someone who doesn't have shit a few thousand dollars, they'll vote for you. If Joe Biden had signed checks, things might be different.
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That's fine, but if you then complain about what Trump is doing then they need to a take a long hard look at themselves, the consequences of Trump were laid out out for everyone to see, they can't have it both ways
 
The MAGA lot are the thickest of the thick so they're going to be first in line for mass incompetency firings.
 
I work with some fairly bright trumpers. They're sick of the status quo, government in general and the high taxes. And some are probably racist as well.
So they're not all dopes, but a lot are.
 
My mom raised me to be an anarchist, and I adopted her feminism, egalitarianism and civil rights consciousness.

She’s gotten lost in the conspiracy world.

In the conspiracy world during Bush II, when I checked it out, the bad guys were definitely the republicans.

But the group in power are always the main conspirators in those articles, and so when Obama served for 8 years conspiracy world decided that it was the democrats controlling the Deep State and doing all the things.

Add that to the fact that she hates the democratic party for their weakness, and placating of republicans and dropping practically every actual liberal policy.

1+1=3, so now she supports Trump.

Not to mention much of this conspiracy media comes from the Kremlin, and so will be pro-Trump. And Trump is an outsider, so he can’t be the Deep State.

Her BS radar is pathetic.
 
I can see why an anarchist might likr Trump. He is anti-establishment candidate and he's actually bringing anarchy to world order and world politics.
 
Jotun said:
I can see why an anarchist might likr Trump. He is anti-establishment candidate and he's actually bringing anarchy to world order and world politics.
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I can see you don't know the meaning of anarchism.
 
klsv said:
I can see you don't know the meaning of anarchism.
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Okay let me clarify. Trump was considered anti-establishment candidate as he is not a career politician. He would initially draw sympathy from all folks that dislike status quo. In fact when opposite to career politicians that are more about preserving status quo, such as Hillary, Biden and Kamala it makes sense that he would have SOME appeal to folks that want and demand change (such as Anarchists). Actually change is what they are getting. Then cognitive dissonance starts appearing and slowly people find themselves justifying everything he's doing. Some people that want change will often grab that change with both hands even when it's obviously harmful for them. It's not just about anarchists, but about all voters who often vote against their interests based on their gut feelings. And I don't consider anarchism a movement based on logic.

The part about bringing anarchy to world order is both true and meant as a joke. But has nothing to do with anarchism as a political movement.
 
Learned something new today. Apparently Ukraine has lots of "raw earth minerals" according to the genius POTUS. Who knew?
 
NICanRed said:
Learned something new today. Apparently Ukraine has lots of "raw earth minerals" according to the genius POTUS. Who knew?
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It's all relative but apparently it's not a lot.... It's likely a combination of things including fossil fuels, that are compelling them
 
The thing I don't understand is surely essentially all of the billionaires that normally back Republicans are sweating about this whole drawback plan for the US. How does the American MIC continue to rinse the country if they leave everything and avoid all combat outside of their own country? How does the tech industry continue to benefit from cheap labour if Trump makes it impossible to continue hiring outside of the US? Etc. etc.

Globalisation has made all of these current billionaires what they are, I don't see how moving away from it benefits them. It's just creating a breeding ground for local industries outside of the US to deliver the same things for less money and take over market share from the existing US leaders, no?
 
RedC said:
The thing I don't understand is surely essentially all of the billionaires that normally back Republicans are sweating about this whole drawback plan for the US. How does the American MIC continue to rinse the country if they leave everything and avoid all combat outside of their own country? How does the tech industry continue to benefit from cheap labour if Trump makes it impossible to continue hiring outside of the US? Etc. etc.

Globalisation has made all of these current billionaires what they are, I don't see how moving away from it benefits them. It's just creating a breeding ground for local industries outside of the US to deliver the same things for less money and take over market share from the existing US leaders, no?
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I think they are all frightened of him (Zuckerberg, Bezzos, etc.) and/or know they will make an absolute killing in the upcoming global financial crash.
 
RedC said:
The thing I don't understand is surely essentially all of the billionaires that normally back Republicans are sweating about this whole drawback plan for the US. How does the American MIC continue to rinse the country if they leave everything and avoid all combat outside of their own country? How does the tech industry continue to benefit from cheap labour if Trump makes it impossible to continue hiring outside of the US? Etc. etc.

Globalisation has made all of these current billionaires what they are, I don't see how moving away from it benefits them. It's just creating a breeding ground for local industries outside of the US to deliver the same things for less money and take over market share from the existing US leaders, no?
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Conspiracy hat on and a bit of an alternate take to the whole “end of democracy”. Maybe this is just four years of bog standard disaster capitalism. By the end of the four years when the damage is done and Trump’s four years is up, the project will be over and they will go back to backing both sides and support a democrat to fix the damage. Meanwhile they’ve all tripled their wealth once more.
 
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