Oh that's just way too perfect
Absolutely spot on The Trump Presidency - Part 2
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
Oh that's just way too perfect
Absolutely spot on Democrat loyalists are also blaming the people who voted for 3rd parties for their loss.
That’s a rubbish point, honestly. None of the others had any chance, and the system is setup so they can’t have a chance.
We’re talking about a genocide here, and a corrupt political system. Vote 1, genocide. Or vote 2, genocide.
Abstaining is a perfectly logical and legitimate action to take.
But in your world, if I vote for some abject nobody in the race I somehow have some legitimacy. Okay.
How broken the democratic system has become (not just in the US) where you are told to vote just 'to keep the lesser of 2 evils out' I mean what's the point.
If every single person who didn’t vote, voted for a third party candidate instead, we’d be looking at a very different political landscape decades ago.
Heck, if we use reform as an example, in 2015 why would anyone vote ukip? They’re never going to win. Two party system fptp and all that jazz.
Only the pressure from those voters in 2015 ended up inadvertently causing brexit.
So yeah voting for an alternative is viable and if everyone has this mentality the landscape would have differed.
But alas, feel free to not take part in democracy and then complain about its aftermath.
In the UK, you could vote for ukip and potentially get an MP from it.
In the us, you can vote for 3rd partys, and you will never, ever, get anything in return. Those votes arent taken seriously, because there is no threat to the two parties from it. Jill could inn all the votes and become president, she has neither the infrastructure or support to run the country, and the two houses would make her entirely ireeevant and incapable of passing any sort of legislative program at all.
Its a fig to people who want to justify the two party system. Just like you are doing.
your entire point rests on the fact that if the world was entirely different, you'd be right
on that we can agree, at least
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Sorry, I don't think that the last paragraph has much relation to the rest of it, which I agree with. Where possible, people should vote for predictable sanity vs obvious loose-cannon unpredictable insanity. Especially when it comes with the implicit agreement that the second option will be legally untouchable for the rest of their lives.
Yeah, I know. Sorry!
Oh, not directed at you personally. More the entire conversation on that topic here
On the last paragraph, sure okay.. I believe it's not possible for me to know which president is best for the war, therefore I can't criticise others for abstaining. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
On the second part, I just said that's exactly what I would do in the post you responded to, so nothing else to add.
Difference is that in the US, the winner of the election takes all. In the UK (or other parliamentairy democracies) you at least get an MP.
Not voting for democrats in the short run might be frowned upon. But in the long it'll taught them a lesson that their voters actually vote for something, other than not as bad as the other party
As the champion () of whatever good virture they're championing they should strive for that.
Voted needs to be earnt. That's the essence of democracy, to empower the masses because their votes counts and party should strive to listen to them.
If the Democrats wins the election with a senile Biden, what does that tells them?
As the champion () of whatever good virture they're championing they should strive for that.
Voted needs to be earnt. That's the essence of democracy, to empower the masses because their votes counts and party should strive to listen to them.
If the Democrats wins the election with a senile Biden, what does that tells them?
yep you have to use as an UK example or the point doesn't work
in American all 3rd party voting options are basically power plays, right? Kennedy trying to weasel into a job, for example.
Couldn’t be worse and all that
Trump’s playbook is: if you bombard people with just enough ludicrous policies and baseless rhetoric, nobody will know what to challenge first. Paralyse the people with rubbish. This is the way.
Posted a while back in this thread that that was the view my family in the US took. It pained them, and they loathe trump but their opinion was if they vote democrat even now, then their vote is always a given. Short term pain in the hope that next time dems actually nominate someone who has their interests at heart (they have no hope or faith in the repubs)
All good and all, if there is a next time.
Also very true
My man says:
I seem to recall an awful lot of people getting pardons for, uh, I guess NOT rioting on January 6?
I guess the question is, what have the Republican party done to earn the votes?
That's not true, there are approximately 245m people eligible to vote in the US out of a total population of approximately 335-340m
You just have to read the election thread. 3rd party voters were labeled as morons all the time.
Kinda. The last example of a powerful third party candidate was Perot in 1992, who at some stage was leading in polls. And despite withdrawing before the election date, he still won over 18% of votes.
Hindsight is a good thing, but Bernie should have run as third party in 2016. Trump would have still won, but Dems probably would have become more a people's party understanding that they cannot put zombie robots and still expect people to vote for them.
That sounds wild I'm gonna read it up on
I know nothing obviously but how do you know it was legit if he ended up dropping out? I assume there was a scandal then?
But Republicans make voting incredibly difficult in many states.
Yes they do but that's not relevant to your assertion that the majority cannot vote
Surely someone should show him this when interviewing him and ask him what has changed.
He dropped out in July 1992 but he actually re-entered the race in October 1992, he dropped out because he said he couldn't stomach the politics of it all, if he hadn't dropped out for that period the race would have linkely been a lot closer and he would have probably won some electoral college votes, possibly enough to prevent a majority
Thanks for the info. Shame he dropped out earlier on, would've been interesting to see how it played out.
Perot?
Also worth noting that this election and the following one brought about a change in how other parties must garner a certain percentage in combined polling to receive equal billing on stage with the main parties. For all their bickering and moaning whataboutism, the two parties were alright with this bit.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-the-hell-how-third-p_b_11277474
Hearing the Democrats talk about how they’re going to tackle Musk’s power grab, I’m reminded of that episode of Red Dwarf where Rimmer got turned into a wet liberal activist and he proposed fighting the alien monster of the week with a leafleting campaign
That bill does not protect women and girls, it only hurts trans people. It in fact mandates genital inspections for children. The opposite of protecting women and girls.
Israel-Gaza is not the only issue though, despite a few vocal posters focusing solely on that for the last year. Even if Trump and Biden are equally bad on Gaza (and after Trump's statements I personally don't think they are equally bad but whatever), Trump is so much worse on so many other issues. Just look at what he is doing and his executive orders.
Harris/Biden/Dems are not and were not pushing Trump's combination of extreme religious conservatism, neo-mercantilism, Russian 90s style oligarchy mixed in with full blown climate change denialism. Yes, the neoliberal status quo can be bad and obviously has problems but this current blend of extreme religious conservatism, neo-mercantilism, and Russian 90s style oligarchy mixed in with full blown climate change denialism is magnitudes worse and will, in the long run, cause massively more suffering in the world short and long term.
Nothing would have changed, he wasn't going to win but even if he stopped a majority electoral college win Clinton would still have been President because the Democrats were in charge of the House who would have slected the President
One future impact might have been to make 3rd party candidates more viable over time but that's probably gone now
I want to listen to that but frankly I have to be in the right headspace or I'll probably get too depressed. It really is terrifying but its good that at least people are talking about it and bringing it out in the open. These people are really a whole new beast that most of the population is simply unprepared for (including myself!)
Some more context here, he dropped out because he had received ominous threats to his family.
"I cannot prove that any of that happened. I just got reports. It was a risk I could not take," Perot said.
Perot said he was told by a "prominent Republican friend" whom he refused to name, that the Bush campaign had used a computer to create a "fake photograph" of Carolyn that would have embarrassed her and the family.
He said he was told Carolyn's face was superimposed on the body of another person in an embarrassing situation and it was to be distributed to supermarket tabloids before her wedding. Campaign operatives also planned to be at the church to disrupt the wedding ceremony, he said.
Perot said he abandoned his campaign July 16 to protect his daughter, who encouraged him to rejoin the race after her wedding."
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1992/10/26/perot-threats-drove-me-out/
Exactly. It's such a strangely narrow view - except I guess if someone felt that both candidates were disqualified from anything due to their stance/actions in relation to Israel/Palestine. But then they probably should not have voted Dem or Rep for decades now, cause it's not like the current Israel/Palestine conflict has taught us anything new about either party. But even so, what Trump is setting in motion now I think is abhorrent enough to justify voting for the other side - except I guess if you're the kind of accelerationist who thinks the US need to go through this, to be able to implode and rebuild itself as a better place. But that's another debate.
(More generally, I have been wanting to say that I have been really appreciating all your great posts in this thread btw.)