The Trump Presidency - Part 2

KirkDuyt said:
So bottom line it just cuts funding for schools? That seems dumb even for Trump.
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There are members in the GOP who have been pushing for privatization of education for years. It is a gigantic business opportunity for them.
 
4bars said:
But what it means no department of education? I don't get it, genuinely.

How schools will function? funding and so?
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Most school funding is through things like state property taxes.

The Federal Department of Education does student loan funding, education research funding, and implements equal rights aspects of education like Title IX and special education.
 
Department of Education mainly disburses funding for several education programs, mainly Pell Grants and Federal Student Loans (for university-level financial assistance), special education funding, school district funding under Title I (for lower-socioeconomic status districts).

He's been saying that he's wanted to disband the Department of Education for a long time, and unfortunately, many MAGA folks will cheer this on alongside the move towards "school choice" (i.e. increased privatisation of education and movement of public funds into private entities), and "handing back control to the states" (which means deepening disadvantage between the haves and have-nots, and eroding safeguards against state-level politicisation of education).
 
Carolina Red said:
Most school funding is through things like state property taxes.

The Federal Department of Education does student loan funding, education research funding, and implements equal rights aspects of education like Title IX and special education.
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This and local county taxes - my property taxes include an amount for the local school district and some of it is broken down for specific elementary school
 
VorZakone said:
So you can get rid of a whole federal department through executive order?
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AFAIK it should be done with approval of Congress. The issue is that Trump's enduring business and political strategy is just do whatever he wants and force opposition to drag it through the courts.

Likely his EO wouldn't eliminate the department, but gut it to the point of being totally ineffectual.
 
thegregster said:
Why were standards higher before the department existed? It was founded in 1980.
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It existed as part of a different department prior to 1980.

Also, other then correlation, what can you point to as the things the DoE has done that destroyed education in America?
 
https://www.science.org/content/article/health-agencies-purge-trump-targeted-programs-and-websites

NIH staff have been pulling down web pages and canceling programs aimed at diversifying the biomedical research workforce. But they are not reviewing existing grants for the verboten topics—at least not at this point, according to NIH sources who declined to be identified. The National Science Foundation (NSF) has frozen payments for all grants in advance of any decision to terminate those that violate the orders. Other agencies, such as NASA, have halted diversity-related programs.

At the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a purge took place Friday, with multiple agency web pages involving race or containing the term LGBTQ (for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer) going dark. Many provided access to CDC data, which scientists and groups rushed to download before the deadline.

“All of the data for HIV is gone. Normally there’s a menu for medical professionals,” but that has disappeared, says Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at the University of Saskatchewan who says she was up until 2 a.m. trying to download data on influenza surveillance. Also no longer available is CDC’s social vulnerability index, which uses metrics such as poverty and age composition to rank communities’ vulnerability to natural disasters with the goal of helping emergency responders and public health authorities plan appropriately.

One shuttered site was a key youth risk behavior survey that has been collecting data on LGBTQ youth since 2015. It looked like this on Wednesday but as of Friday it is gone.

Also no longer available is CDC’s social vulnerability index, which uses metrics such as poverty and age composition to rank communities’ vulnerability to natural disasters with the goal of helping emergency responders and public health authorities plan appropriately.
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It is important for human knowledge to be taken away from this rogue state and the grubby capitalist fingers controlling it.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I think it will be done on a state level rather than on a federal level?
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RedDevil@84 said:
From their website: Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States but Education Department provides funds that help schools and districts reach their goals.

No more funding because no one needs to reach any goals.
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I see, so it will pin the responsability to the states.

Education medicare and more. I assume that not even GOP states can be happy about it
 
Carolina Red said:
Most school funding is through things like state property taxes.

The Federal Department of Education does student loan funding, education research funding, and implements equal rights aspects of education like Title IX and special education.
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Thank you
 
4bars said:
But what it means no department of education? I don't get it, genuinely.

How schools will function? funding and so?
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It goes back to states.

Right wingers say that the US school system was the best in the world before Carter created this system. My guess is that the US is not top of the word anymore because other countries (mostly East Asian ones like Singapore or China) improved a lot their system while the US didn’t spend much on it.

I think the true reason for why GOP has this fetish to remove this department is that in state level, they’ll probably can decide to not teach evolution, and instead teach Jesus and creationism. Probably also change history to celebrate Confederation heroes. And who knows, maybe in biology teach that HIV is send by God to destroy LGBT.

And full libertarians would want the schools to be fully private (or home schooled).
 
4bars said:
But what it means no department of education? I don't get it, genuinely.

How schools will function? funding and so?
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You are thinking a regular non federalised country. In the US state have significant autonomy w.r.t school funding, curriculum, etc.
 
Revan said:
I think the true reason for why GOP has this fetish to remove this department is that in state level, they’ll probably can decide to not teach evolution, and instead teach Jesus and creationism. Probably also change history to celebrate Confederation heroes. And who knows, maybe in biology teach that HIV is send by God to destroy LGBT.
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Curriculum is already made at the state and local level.
 
JezChan said:
AFAIK it should be done with approval of Congress. The issue is that Trump's enduring business and political strategy is just do whatever he wants and force opposition to drag it through the courts.
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A lesson for democrats. Fight fire with fire.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Our main parties are all pretty close and patriotic, so I'm not too worried. Only one side is disrupting 200 years of cordiality.
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Yeah, I'm not worried about Poilievre in that regard either. He has said some pretty feisty stuff yesterday and today as well. See also Ford, who was pro-Trump previously and is now going in hardest of them all.

I don't think Trump's US care what anyone thinks though. If they think the US will benefit from country X changing their laws and regulations, they'll push for it in whatever way they can (through tariffs first and foremost). It might not change Canada's banking sector, but the dairy sector is a big one also. And probably various sectors I'm unaware of.
4bars said:
But what it means no department of education? I don't get it, genuinely.

How schools will function? funding and so?
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You've received a bunch of responses already, but just to add that there is no federal Department of Education in Canada either. It's purely done at the P/T level.
 
It is funny (or sad) how the US goes on and on about being a pillar of democracy but all it takes of couple of weeks and a mad man to completely dismantle any due democratic process.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
US Banks wouldn't be able to cope under the Bank Act.

Their eight GSIBs would be the only ones to consider attempting it and Canadians, who largely hate big banks, would be unlikely to trust Wells Fargo, JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley or Mellon. Citigroup and Bank of America are the only one who might attempt it

Regional US Banks wouldn't be competitive and couldn't operate under our fairly stringent rules.
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Dr. Dwayne said:
Anyway, it's not economically viable for US Banks to set up shop here. They will have to comply with Canadian regulations, it's a saturated market, and they have worse reputations than our banks.

Indeed, foreign banks already operate here and are allowed to under the Bank Act. It's just Donald creating fantasies in his head again so he can present another bogeyman to distract the idiots who support him.
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There is now actually a CBC article that goes into all of this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-fact-check-us-banks-canada-1.7449233. It confirms most of what you're saying here. US banks can already operate in Canada, same as any foreign bank, but it's a fully covered market, so it's very hard to get in. Also:
Several U.S. financial institutions have operations in Canada. They fall under the Schedule 2 category (foreign-owned banks with Canadian subsidiaries), and they include JPMorganChase, which has about 600 employees on this side of the border, and Citibank, which has operated in Canada for more than a century.
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More Trump nonsense, then.
 
Man - Gabbard on her way to lead DNI concerns me more than almost any other appointment so far. It's that dark IMHO. It's about akin to putting Michael Flynn back into government. Worse arguably.

It's amazing how they paint her as some patriot when we know very well if she d still be a Dem they d call her out for having more than just extremely dubious opinions. The Nationalist Trump Party, scuse me...GOP continues to be a welcoming place for people who in a healthy country would be mostly regarded as the very fringes of society.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
This is why arguments by analogy are so poor.

What this really is, is what happens when a reactionary right wing movement gains traction in a liberal democracy and starts making it illiberal. This is not being driven by realpolitik, its being driven by a revival of a completely outdated mercantilist economic policy and regressive religious conservative social views powered by personal megalomania and sprinkled with some self-interested billionaires.. This is not at all Kissinger style realpolitik, its something much more nefarious and it needs to be opposed from within. If you actually care about these Western values you've gone on about, I hope you speak out for what it is and not just euphemistically reduce it to "just realpolitik".
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Who knew the US was playing with its kiddie gloves on when it instigated two disastrous wars in the Middle East, which destabilised the region and directly or indirectly lead to the deaths of more than a million people.

It's just such a weird way to describe it. "Actually the US could start WW3 if they wanted to and wipe out all of humanity, so this is basically nothing".
 
RedDevil@84 said:
It is funny (or sad) how the US goes on and on about being a pillar of democracy but all it takes of couple of weeks and a mad man to completely dismantle any due democratic process.
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The US could descend into full blown fascism, and many Americans would still believe they were the most democratic country in the world. There are plenty of Chinese people who say the same about China.
 

Trump Says Palestinians Have ‘No Alternative’ But To Leave Gaza, They Would ‘Love’ It​

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Trump spoke to reporters while signing various executive orders on Tuesday, including withdrawing the United States from the United Nations Human Rights Council, and he said Palestinians would “love” to be relocated out of Gaza.


“The Gaza thing has not worked. It’s never worked,” Trump said. “And I feel very differently about Gaza than a lot of people. I think they should get a good, fresh, beautiful piece of land and we get some people to put up the money to build it and make it nice and make it habitable and enjoyable.”
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https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-...rnative-but-to-leave-gaza-they-would-love-it/
 
I've only started reading and listening to this stuff today, so am still at the "taking it with a grain of salt" stage but this article is definitely nudging the unfamiliar conspiracy theorist in me:

https://www.thenerdreich.com/the-network-state-coup-is-happening-right-now/

Musk’s DOGE is a rebranding of Curtis Yarvin’s RAGE (Retire All Government Employees). This is what’s behind the buyout offers, firings, and elimination of entire departments. The strategy: Purge the government of civil servants and replace them with those loyal to a dictator. It’s about gutting democratic institutions from the inside out and turning them into something else:
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While the establishment press either cowers or kowtows, the architects of this takeover operate in broad daylight. Everything happening now has already been spelled out by the Nerd Reich tech bros manifestos, podcasts, and conferences: the tech CEO takeover of government, the institutional purges, crypto corruption becoming a dominant economic force, the quest for new territory. I didn’t guess this stuff – I just listened.
The playbook is no longer theoretical. It’s being executed step by step.
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Here's a link to "the network state" manifesto (I haven't read it): https://thenetworkstate.com/
Here's a profile of Curtis Yarvin in The Guardian last year: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/21/curtis-yarvin-trump
Here's a 2 hr (yes I know) conversation between this Curtis Yarvin and Michael Anton - the current Director of Policy Planning at the State Department:
Note: He sounds like a complete dickhead, so it's hard to take anything he says seriously, yet there he is talking to the (then future) Director of Policy Planning.

Here's a Verge article linking Yarvin's thought with that of Vance: https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24266512/jd-vance-curtis-yarvin-influence-rage-project-2025

I'm quite open to the idea that rich techbros have some quite niche beliefs and a penchant for megalomania. Given Musk's current actions; the parade of pasty faced billionaires flanking Trump at the inauguration, Altman getting promised hundreds of billions, AGI potentially getting ever closer, $Trump being pumped and dumped etc it's not beyond the realm of possibility that something like the above is occurring - at least in part.
 
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Ekkie Thump said:
I've only started reading and listening to this stuff today, so am still at the "taking it with a grain of salt" stage but this article is definitely nudging the unfamiliar conspiracy theorist in me:

https://www.thenerdreich.com/the-network-state-coup-is-happening-right-now/




Here's a link to "the network state" manifesto (I haven't read it): https://thenetworkstate.com/
Here's a profile of Curtis Yarvin in The Guardian last year: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/21/curtis-yarvin-trump
Here's a 2 hr (yes I know) conversation between this Curtis Yarvin and Michael Anton - the current Director of Policy Planning at the State Department:
Note: He sounds like a complete dickhead, so it's hard to take anything he says seriously, yet there he is talking to the (then future) Director of Policy Planning.

Here's a Verge article linking Yarvin's thought with that of Vance: https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24266512/jd-vance-curtis-yarvin-influence-rage-project-2025

I'm quite open to the idea that rich techbros have some quite niche beliefs and a penchant for megalomania. Given Musk's current actions; the parade of pasty faced billionaires flanking Trump at the inauguration, Altman getting promised hundreds of billions, AGI potentially getting ever closer, $Trump being pumped and dumped etc it's not beyond the realm of possibility that something like the above is occurring - at least in part.
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Are you familiar with Project 2025?
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I've only started reading and listening to this stuff today, so am still at the "taking it with a grain of salt" stage but this article is definitely nudging the unfamiliar conspiracy theorist in me:

https://www.thenerdreich.com/the-network-state-coup-is-happening-right-now/




Here's a link to "the network state" manifesto (I haven't read it): https://thenetworkstate.com/
Here's a profile of Curtis Yarvin in The Guardian last year: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/21/curtis-yarvin-trump
Here's a 2 hr (yes I know) conversation between this Curtis Yarvin and Michael Anton - the current Director of Policy Planning at the State Department:
Note: He sounds like a complete dickhead, so it's hard to take anything he says seriously, yet there he is talking to the (then future) Director of Policy Planning.

Here's a Verge article linking Yarvin's thought with that of Vance: https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24266512/jd-vance-curtis-yarvin-influence-rage-project-2025

I'm quite open to the idea that rich techbros have some quite niche beliefs and a penchant for megalomania. Given Musk's current actions; the parade of pasty faced billionaires flanking Trump at the inauguration, Altman getting promised hundreds of billions, AGI potentially getting ever closer, $Trump being pumped and dumped etc it's not beyond the realm of possibility that something like the above is occurring - at least in part.
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Here's another article that just popped up: https://www.404media.co/things-are-...musk-ally-plans-to-push-ai-on-the-government/

Thomas Shedd, a Musk-associate and now head of the General Services Administration’s Technology Transformation Services (TTS), told government tech workers in a meeting this week that the administration plans to widely deploy AI throughout the government. Shedd also said the administration would need help altering login.gov, a government login system, to further integrate with sensitive systems like social security “to further identify individuals and detect and prevent fraud,” which employees identified on the meeting as “an illegal task.”

Shedd, who is a former Tesla engineer, said the government should “try to get consent,” regarding login.gov changes but that “we should still push forward and see what we can do.”
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Or an article in the NYT if the above is an unfamiliar website (it is for me).
 
nimic said:
Who knew the US was playing with its kiddie gloves on when it instigated two disastrous wars in the Middle East, which destabilised the region and directly or indirectly lead to the deaths of more than a million people.

It's just such a weird way to describe it. "Actually the US could start WW3 if they wanted to and wipe out all of humanity, so this is basically nothing".
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Exactly! It's such a bizarre angle to take with everything going on, I was almost speechless.
 
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