The Trump Presidency - Part 2

Shane88 said:
So Mexico and Canada are bending the knee to him?
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No. The media just doesn't do their jobs properly.

Orange man is not getting anything the Biden administration didn't already have. And they don't report on the concessions he made verbally (which I know he won't keep but we know how this goes) like addressing the flow of guns from the US to Mexican cartels.
 
Canada and Mexico hit back and Oompa Lumpa shits the bed. Then we have the same old shite of MAGA trying to claim some sort of victory when in reality Canada and Mexico are doing nothing different to what they previously have.
 
Wow, reading this thread it really becomes apparent that European / US left is just another side of the same coin (right wing) when it comes to stupidity.
 
Redplane said:
I wonder what foreign leader holds the record for most platforms given in this country. The amount of times Netanyahu has been given the benefit of receptions at the WH and speeches before congress etc must be way up there. Id love to see Trump demand equal treatment for shit show reasons.
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That's because he is only a foreign leader in name, he's the head of the US colony in the Middle East and has far more influence on US policy than any other politician.
 
langster said:
That's exactly the way I see it too.
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Not me. I look at the way they treat the Uyghurs and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. That’s not a power I want to depend on or have tight relations with.
 
HTG said:
Not me. I look at the way they treat the Uyghurs and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. That’s not a power I want to depend on or have tight relations with.
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I don't like how they treat the Uyghurs or the Tibetans either but who said anything about having tight relationships with them? I was just saying about who I feel is worse overall and who is a bigger threat to world peace and security and I definitely think the USA is both, far more than China.
 
langster said:
I don't like how they treat the Uyghurs or the Tibetans either but who said anything about having tight relationships with them? I was just saying about who I feel is worse overall and who is a bigger threat to world peace and security and I definitely think the USA is both, far more than China.
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Can’t agree on this.
But I believe it doesn’t matter much anyway. Both shouldn’t be regarded as close partners. Europe really needs to work on its independence, no matter who the biggest threat is.
 
Rajma said:
Wow, reading this thread it really becomes apparent that European / US left is just another side of the same coin (right wing) when it comes to stupidity.
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The US doesn't have any significant left wing movement. Just your standard centre-right neo-liberal politics with a dusting of socially liberal feel good policicies at one end, and the neo-nazis at the other.

Europe used to have one buts that's almost completely disappeared too.
 
HTG said:
Can’t agree on this.
But I believe it doesn’t matter much anyway. Both shouldn’t be regarded as close partners. Europe really needs to work on its independence, no matter who the biggest threat is.
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Yeah we can agree to disagree, but I agree with you that neither should be regarded as close partners.
 
langster said:
I don't like how they treat the Uyghurs or the Tibetans either but who said anything about having tight relationships with them? I was just saying about who I feel is worse overall and who is a bigger threat to world peace and security and I definitely think the USA is both, far more than China.
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Totally agree. The US is and has always has been the biggest threat to the world. Through its imperialism, and financial and military intimidation.

None of these so called super powers are great however, and every country has its chequered history on human rights, including the UK.
 
Bert_ said:
The US doesn't have any significant left wing movement. Just your standard centre-right neo-liberal politics with a dusting of socially liberal feel good policicies at one end, and the neo-nazis at the other.

Europe used to have one buts that's almost completely disappeared too.
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Such a good summary
 
Bert_ said:
The US doesn't have any significant left wing movement. Just your standard centre-right neo-liberal politics with a dusting of socially liberal feel good policicies at one end, and the neo-nazis at the other.

Europe used to have one buts that's almost completely disappeared too.
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It's just Bernie isnt it.
 
I feel like people who are comparing US to China unfavourably after Trump's first few weeks and his threats against his allies and partners haven't actually followed the "diplomatic" interactions between China and most of its neighbours since Hu Jintao finished his term.

It's the same shit.
 
KirkDuyt said:
It's just Bernie isnt it.
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And AOC. But even she seems to be leaning more into the Democratic Party machine these days. She probably wants to be senator soon.

The best the US can hope for is probably just semi-competent neoliberal administration by the Democratic party, in the style of Clinton and Obama. There isn't going to be a realignment to the left. Their best bet is probably to go with someone like JB Pritzker for the next presidential election. A sort of brash, fat, white guy with a business background from a swing state.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I feel like people who are comparing US to China unfavourably after Trump's first few weeks and his threats against his allies and partners haven't actually followed the "diplomatic" interactions between China and most of its neighbours since Hu Jintao finished his term.

It's the same shit.
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I bet they don't even speak Mandarin either. Suckers.
 
Wibble said:
I'm hoping he will gradually lose concentration and spend most of his presidency chasing a ball of fluff, kitten style. Although I'm not hopeful.
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It probably won't change much. Biden was quite demented and people behind him were able to fill his/their agenda.

I guess the same will happen if Trump becomes mentally uncapable. Pricks like Musk and co. will continue dismantling the state.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I feel like people who are comparing US to China unfavourably after Trump's first few weeks and his threats against his allies and partners haven't actually followed the "diplomatic" interactions between China and most of its neighbours since Hu Jintao finished his term.

It's the same shit.
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Which, considering your opinion on China, should be more than enough for America‘s allies to reconsider their relationship and try to find new and more reliable partners. The US is not a friend of Europe anymore. That has been made abundantly clear, by the US government and the citizens who cheer all this on.
The US is no different from Russia or China anymore.
 
HTG said:
The EU immediately needs to set up programs aiming to poach researchers from the US. They wage war on research? We give researchers „asylum“. Let their feck up be our chance.
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It should do that, but recently the EU lowered the budget for their ERC grants (the elite grants for professors).

Also, need to increase salaries of professors and postdocs to stay competitive.
 
HTG said:
Which, considering your opinion on China, should be more than enough for America‘s allies to reconsider their relationship and try to find new and more reliable partners. The US is not a friend of Europe anymore. That has been made abundantly clear, by the US government and the citizens who cheer all this on.
The US is no different from Russia or China anymore.
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Precisely. The right wing nutters do not see things in alliances, but in zero-sum games. They want to win, regardless if that destroys one-century old alliances, because if you see everything as a zero-sum game, not a cooperative one, you'll either win or lose.
 
Revan said:
It should do that, but recently the EU lowered the budget for their ERC grants (the elite grants for professors).

Also, need to increase salaries of professors and postdocs to stay competitive.
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Sadly so. I don’t really believe they will do much to seize the opportunity. It’s incredibly frustrating, that the EU is in crisis itself. A strong, confident EU would make all the difference right now.
 
Revan said:
It probably won't change much. Biden was quite demented and people behind him were able to fill his/their agenda.

I guess the same will happen if Trump becomes mentally uncapable. Pricks like Musk and co. will continue dismantling the state.
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Depressing
 


It's difficult to deny it now Trump and all his technocrats are regurgitating Yarvin's anti-egalitarian doctrines in public. Scary this video is 2 months old.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I feel like people who are comparing US to China unfavourably after Trump's first few weeks and his threats against his allies and partners haven't actually followed the "diplomatic" interactions between China and most of its neighbours since Hu Jintao finished his term.

It's the same shit.
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That's definitely not the case for me at least as It's got little to do with Trump. I have felt the same worry about the US for decades. Trump has just pushed it closer to midnight for me. Moreso this time because he's on a mission for revenge and to prove how big and strong he is under the guise of making it about the USA, and of course as usual it's about money.
 
langster said:
That's definitely not the case for me at least as It's got little to do with Trump. I have felt the same worry about the US for decades. Trump has just pushed it closer to midnight for me. Moreso this time because he's on a mission for revenge and to prove how big and strong he is under the guise of making it about the USA, and of course as usual it's about money.
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For us developing countries it's all the same with US. The US dollar debt, every once in a the UD has recession and all our debts tripled.

In 1990 one USD is equivalent to 2500 Rupiah, now it's 16.500 rupiah. We're basically never gonna be able to pay our foreign debt.

Either that's by nature or by shrewd design, we're no better. At least with China we're seeing contruction back home and cheap affordable goods.

And if you happened to be on the shit hole country list, good luck with the aid with strings attached, and god forbid you're somehow living on direct colition with the US national interest like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, you won't be so welcoming to the word Democracy
 
HTG said:
The EU immediately needs to set up programs aiming to poach researchers from the US. They wage war on research? We give researchers „asylum“. Let their feck up be our chance.
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would love it if that happened. right now, EU funding is well below US funding, and it's china which is doing what you ask.

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Fridge chutney said:
No, the Canadian government were already going to spend $1.3B on border security, as announced in December. From what I can tell, the "new" thing is appointing a "fentanyl Czar", to track down the miniscule amount of fentanyl that crosses the border from Canada to the US, I guess.
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RoyH1 said:
Orange man is not getting anything the Biden administration didn't already have. And they don't report on the concessions he made verbally (which I know he won't keep but we know how this goes) like addressing the flow of guns from the US to Mexican cartels.
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Not exactly. Canada announced the CA$1.3B in border investment in their Fall Economic Statement, exactly because Trump had already started warning with tariffs due to the leaky (immigrants, fentanyl) border. So the investment is because of Trump. They also added some small further measures now, like that fentanyl czar (whatever that means - but it's the sort of thing Trump seems to like).

So yes, Canada have Trump what he specifically asked for. This is reasonable stuff though, nothing extravagant that doesn't make sense from a Canadian perspective. But it'll be interesting to see what happens in 30 days. Trump will feel like the pressure worked, so I expect a round 2 - and he's already mentioned some of the possible arguments: he wants a new economic deal that helps erase the trade deficit and lets US businesses (dairy, banks, etc.) operate more freely in Canada. Let's see what Canada responds then, cause that would be a much harder sell, given it would really change sectors of the Canadian economy.

So, to be continued.
 
HTG said:
The EU immediately needs to set up programs aiming to poach researchers from the US. They wage war on research? We give researchers „asylum“. Let their feck up be our chance.
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I would imagine that, rather than needing to poach anyone, this kind of thing will make european researchers second-guess whether they should move to the U.S. for 'better' opportunities.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I feel like people who are comparing US to China unfavourably after Trump's first few weeks and his threats against his allies and partners haven't actually followed the "diplomatic" interactions between China and most of its neighbours since Hu Jintao finished his term.

It's the same shit.
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I wonder if we'll witness more states arming themselves with nukes again. Honestly speaking, as a European I'm very worried about the developments in the US and I think it is a genuine possibility that they turn into an authocracy considering all that is happening. And with the brute strength the country does possess, the only real thing that can deter them is the threat of nuclear warfare.


Bebe said:
My hope is that we (Canadians) use the time to work on trade partnerships with other countries. As much as I want to tell the orange cnut to feck himself, Canada's economy is already weak and we can't afford this fight at the moment. The commitments we made are the same ones made in November, except now there's a "Fentanyl Czar" as well. No idea what that is, but I'm assuming we can trot out some idiot in a hat and Trump will clap his tiny hands in delight.

Placate for now, and (hopefully) immediately begin working on divesting from the US.



I honestly think we could set some mannequins in fatigues on the border and get away with it.
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The former German foreign minister Sigmar Gabriel has suggested that Canada joins the EU. Have to say, I think the idea is worth consideration.



AfonsoAlves said:
I mean, I mentioned before to people that were complaining about American foreign policy and Int'l relations that USA was actually playing with its kiddie gloves on for the past three decades, and that if the US actually took those gloves off shit would look real nasty.

Well folks, this is what the US taking the gloves off looks like. Double that with the fact that the gloves are being taken off...to deal with long term strategic partners and allies.

Anyway, welcome to the era of actual cynical and realpolitik American foreign policy, coupled in with lack of understanding of regional allies and their global alliance system.

We're in for a rollercoaster - expect explicit threats of economic power and threats of its hard power to secure its geopolitical interests. This isn't going to be a pretty four years.
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Can you elaborate on that or link a read that sheds more light on China's geopolitical strategies? I know that they are aggressive towards their neigbours but I have to admit that I'm not familiar with the details. Read that they are withdrawing a bit from Africa.

Thing is, America has proven that it can flip in an instance and you can't adapt your economic and geopolitical alliances within the span of a few years. So looking for different strategic partners is essential for Europe I think.
 
Cheimoon said:
Not exactly. Canada announced the CA$1.3B in border investment in their Fall Economic Statement, exactly because Trump had already started warning with tariffs due to the leaky (immigrants, fentanyl) border. So the investment is because of Trump. They also added some small further measures now, like that fentanyl czar (whatever that means - but it's the sort of thing Trump seems to like).

So yes, Canada have Trump what he specifically asked for. This is reasonable stuff though, nothing extravagant that doesn't make sense from a Canadian perspective. But it'll be interesting to see what happens in 30 days. Trump will feel like the pressure worked, so I expect a round 2 - and he's already mentioned some of the possible arguments: he wants a new economic deal that helps erase the trade deficit and lets US businesses (dairy, banks, etc.) operate more freely in Canada. Let's see what Canada responds then, cause that would be a much harder sell, given it would really change sectors of the Canadian economy.

So, to be continued.
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A smart thing for Canada to do (after they take down those ridiculous interprovincial trade barriers) would be spend say 40billion or so on their defence (buying most of it from the states and effectively net zeroing the trade deficit) and using it to bolster defences in the north ( deters Russia) and strengthen the borders with the states, eliminating almost all illegal fentanyl. Sure, you can't stop all of it, but that kind of expenditure would go down really well with trump, who would be left with nothing to use as a reason to annex Canada. Canada meets its NATO requirements, North America becomes stronger as a whole and both countries end up better off for it.
 
Also, make no mistake, if Canada elects Pollievre, Canada is turning its natural resource taps on and rightfully positioning itself as a global power.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I would imagine that, rather than needing to poach anyone, this kind of thing will make european researchers second-guess whether they should move to the U.S. for 'better' opportunities.
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My cousin all went back after doing their degree in the states.

High crime rate, constant political uncertainty, not to mention their city has now become much worse with the homeless and general shabyness, the shooting, culture war, etc

They have the luxury to choose between Singapore, China (which pays very well), and many other prefered destination.

These things are very unheard of in the 1990s where coming to USA is the dream of every Asian.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I mean, I mentioned before to people that were complaining about American foreign policy and Int'l relations that USA was actually playing with its kiddie gloves on for the past three decades, and that if the US actually took those gloves off shit would look real nasty.

Well folks, this is what the US taking the gloves off looks like. Double that with the fact that the gloves are being taken off...to deal with long term strategic partners and allies.

Anyway, welcome to the era of actual cynical and realpolitik American foreign policy, coupled in with lack of understanding of regional allies and their global alliance system.

We're in for a rollercoaster - expect explicit threats of economic power and threats of its hard power to secure its geopolitical interests. This isn't going to be a pretty four years.
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This is why arguments by analogy are so poor.

What this really is, is what happens when a reactionary right wing movement gains traction in a liberal democracy and starts making it illiberal. This is not being driven by realpolitik, its being driven by a revival of a completely outdated mercantilist economic policy and regressive religious conservative social views powered by personal megalomania and sprinkled with some self-interested billionaires.. This is not at all Kissinger style realpolitik, its something much more nefarious and it needs to be opposed from within. If you actually care about these Western values you've gone on about, I hope you speak out for what it is and not just euphemistically reduce it to "just realpolitik".
 
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