The Trump Presidency - Part 2

I mean, I mentioned before to people that were complaining about American foreign policy and Int'l relations that USA was actually playing with its kiddie gloves on for the past three decades, and that if the US actually took those gloves off shit would look real nasty.

Well folks, this is what the US taking the gloves off looks like. Double that with the fact that the gloves are being taken off...to deal with long term strategic partners and allies.

Anyway, welcome to the era of actual cynical and realpolitik American foreign policy, coupled in with lack of understanding of regional allies and their global alliance system.

We're in for a rollercoaster - expect explicit threats of economic power and threats of its hard power to secure its geopolitical interests. This isn't going to be a pretty four years.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Trump once owned a casino, a buisness where customers walk in and give you all their money, and you get to decide, via payout percentages for machines, how much of it you give them back.

And he went bust. Twice. In the first one, his dad bought $7 million of chips and handed them back without using them, to try and save him. Still went bust.

Never underestimate how stupid he is.
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And he got out of the casino industry scot free and became President twice.

Her’d argue he’s not stupid and at the very least he fell and continues to fall upwards, despite being a complete shitehawk moron
 
Bebe said:
My hope is that we (Canadians) use the time to work on trade partnerships with other countries. As much as I want to tell the orange cnut to feck himself, Canada's economy is already weak and we can't afford this fight at the moment. The commitments we made are the same ones made in November, except now there's a "Fentanyl Czar" as well. No idea what that is, but I'm assuming we can trot out some idiot in a hat and Trump will clap his tiny hands in delight.

Placate for now, and (hopefully) immediately begin working on divesting from the US.



I honestly think we could set some mannequins in fatigues on the border and get away with it.
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Well - there is the proposal of becoming part of the EU. At least youd still remain a large amount of sovereignty rather than being ruled by the Washingtonian religious oligarchy. Then threaten England for being pinched in the middle. Start by selling United for scraps.
 
FriedClams said:
Can we please threadban people who talk about USA invading Canada? Canada is a member of NATO, an American invasion is an all likelihood an end of the world as we know it scenario. It is NOT going to happen.
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What would any other NATO member really do to the US if this happened? feck all.

It’s not going to happen because it’s phenomenally stupid even for these lot, but there’s nothing anyone could do, the US have more military and economic might than anyone else by a long way.
 
Elon on a twitter spaces call with elected representatives. This is genuinely mad stuff. Elon is openly talking about walking into USAID, defining what he believes is "waste and fraud" and then announces HE is the one determining the outcome to shut it down. Elected representatives, albeit GOP, sat there and listened to this and are going along with it. There is no government when this is allowed to happen.

 
I'm hoping he will gradually lose concentration and spend most of his presidency chasing a ball of fluff, kitten style. Although I'm not hopeful.
 
Wibble said:
I'm hoping he will gradually lose concentration and spend most of his presidency chasing a ball of fluff, kitten style. Although I'm not hopeful.
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That was his first presidency. This time, he's got people with him that get things done and a brainlessly loyal majority backing him. I wouldn't be too optimistic.
 
Cheimoon said:
That was his first presidency. This time, he's got people with him that get things done and a brainlessly loyal majority backing him. I wouldn't be too optimistic.
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I know but he will hopefully he will again continually sack the people around him again and end up doing that instead of anything more destructive. Unlikely I know.
 
So, Musk is looting the treasury, while Trump is playing the public, getting credit for ending crisis he himself created.

Great stuff.
 
Bebe said:
My hope is that we (Canadians) use the time to work on trade partnerships with other countries. As much as I want to tell the orange cnut to feck himself, Canada's economy is already weak and we can't afford this fight at the moment. The commitments we made are the same ones made in November, except now there's a "Fentanyl Czar" as well. No idea what that is, but I'm assuming we can trot out some idiot in a hat and Trump will clap his tiny hands in delight.

Placate for now, and (hopefully) immediately begin working on divesting from the US.
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I am canadian. First generation. So if canada becomes us maybe he will deport me

But canada can divest much unfortunately. It has just one land neighbour, US. And the bext is literally an ocean away. Mexico is another one, but all commerce would need to be by biat as they would charge at tge border.

US will bully his way with canada. EU in the other hand has a chance if they get their shit together
 
Shane88 said:
So Mexico and Canada are bending the knee to him?
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No, the Canadian government were already going to spend $1.3B on border security, as announced in December. From what I can tell, the "new" thing is appointing a "fentanyl Czar", to track down the miniscule amount of fentanyl that crosses the border from Canada to the US, I guess.

Many US business leaders and economists are also breathing a sigh of relief, and many Republican politicians were pleading with Trump not to follow through with these idiotic tariffs
 
Tariffs on China are going ahead, and just now China announced retaliatory action. A trade war has begun.

China announced an investigation into Google and imposed new tariffs on a range of US products moments after President Donald Trump slapped a 10% tariff on goods from Beijing, reigniting a trade war between the word’s largest economies.
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China will probe the US tech giant for alleged antitrust violations, according to a Tuesday statement from the State Administration for Market Regulation. Beijing also announced 15% levies on coal and liquefied natural gas and 10% on oil and agricultural equipment from the US.
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utdalltheway said:
Feckin eejits are standing by watching democracy fall apart. History will not judge them well.
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The most irrelevant statement there is. They don’t give a shit. Especially since they are the ones judging those kindly, that history is supposed to judge harshly.
 
HTG said:
Is it? I know it’s somewhat necessary at this point. But getting closer to China isn’t something that fills me with joy.
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Well, in the context of the current situation. I mean during WW2 the allied forces included Stalin's Russia. Needs must in certain situations.

Trump's America is an extremely unpredictable and volatile force right now, and there's no guarantee that stops during his term or that his term ends in four years.

China is far from perfect, but they are at least a relatively stable power compared to what Trump is doing. I don't see how America can be viewed as a reliable ally in light of all of this, so I don't see exploring other avenues as a bad thing, rather than just hoping Trump and America comes to their senses and allowing Trump and Musk to erode things over here.

In before Alfonso replies to this post reprimanding me and reminding me that China is the root of all evil, the devil, Cthulhu and the heat death of the universe all rolled into one.
 
Cloud7 said:
Well, in the context of the current situation. I mean during WW2 the allied forces included Stalin's Russia. Needs must in certain situations.

Trump's America is an extremely unpredictable and volatile force right now, and there's no guarantee that stops during his term or that his term ends in four years.

China is far from perfect, but they are at least a relatively stable power compared to what Trump is doing. I don't see how America can be viewed as a reliable ally in light of all of this, so I don't see exploring other avenues as a bad thing, rather than just hoping Trump and America comes to their senses and allowing Trump and Musk to erode things over here.

In before Alfonso replies to this post reprimanding me and reminding me that China is the root of all evil, the devil, Cthulhu and the heat death of the universe all rolled into one.
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Alfonso wouldn’t be completely wrong. The issue is that the US is doing what they can to become just as bad, while being much less reliable.
But drifting closer to China feels like fleeing from Scylla and seeking refuge with Charybdis. I get the necessity. But it’s not something I would cheer on.
Ideally the EU would seek maximum independence from foreign powers. But that won’t work as we lack natural resources. It’s just a very, very shitty situation all around.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Well folks, this is what the US taking the gloves off looks like. Double that with the fact that the gloves are being taken off...to deal with long term strategic partners and allies.
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This is what the death of an empire looks like. Multipolar world orderings on the rise soon.
 
HTG said:
Alfonso wouldn’t be completely wrong. The issue is that the US is doing what they can to become just as bad, while being much less reliable.
But drifting closer to China feels like fleeing from Scylla and seeking refuge with Charybdis. I get the necessity. But it’s not something I would cheer on.
Ideally the EU would seek maximum independence from foreign powers. But that won’t work as we lack natural resources. It’s just a very, very shitty situation all around.
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I rather the powers that be being proactive and trying to get ahead of whatever Trump is trying to do rather than just waiting and getting caught with their pants down.

Perhaps my use of the word “good” made it seem like I’m more excited about this than I am. It’s a necessity that needed to be explored and I prefer that it is being looked into rather than waiting until it’s too late and we are forced to go along with America’s madness.

I prefer to think of it in that way, that it is a good thing we are trying to figure out the best solution to a crap situation rather than just lamenting that the situation is crap.
 
His tarriff plan is dumb. How to alienate the entire world and make friendly nations averse to China/Russia etc., decide to go with them.

Don't see why the EU would not just start buying Russian oil and gas again. That's a huge amount of American gas gone.

If you want to play hardball, then do it. The American continent is isolated, the rest of the world is connected by rail and so on. Market for EU (contiguous) is enormous (Eurasia). It just needs to make some kind of natural resource deal and feck that war off.
 
HTG said:
Alfonso wouldn’t be completely wrong. The issue is that the US is doing what they can to become just as bad, while being much less reliable.
But drifting closer to China feels like fleeing from Scylla and seeking refuge with Charybdis. I get the necessity. But it’s not something I would cheer on.
Ideally the EU would seek maximum independence from foreign powers. But that won’t work as we lack natural resources. It’s just a very, very shitty situation all around.
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I'd put the USA as much worse and a far higher threat to world security than China. But what do I know?
 
langster said:
I'd put the USA as much worse and a far higher threat to world security than China. But what do I know?
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Everyone except anti-Chinese people (students of history included) would have to agree.

China may one day start overseas wars and so on but it isn't doing it yet (you only have limited internal problems and that threat to world security USA types call the "south China sea".
 
neverdie said:
If you want to play hardball, then do it. The American continent is isolated, the rest of the world is connected by rail and so on. Market for EU (contiguous) is enormous (Eurasia). It just needs to make some kind of natural resource deal and feck that war off.
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Meh, it's alright for you lot. We are in Europe, but not in Europe and also not connected either. There could be opportunity for the UK to repair some damage caused by Brexit but I don't have much faith in that happening anytime soon.
 
langster said:
not connected either.
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Channel Tunnel.

Just make trade deals. But the UK has been the tail which has wagged in whatever direction the US lurched ever since 1945. Does it dare disturb that? Maybe. It's a dying empire. No sense in staying with it long-term. In 30 years it might even be third, PPP, in economic terms (certainly won't be first in either GDP or PPP within 15).

Indeed, if the UK were to rejoin the EU it would be easily a competitor to the US (if the US were fecked off). Would take time but it would happen. Easier access to fuel, larger contiguous market, etc.

Or let Starmer run the UK into the ground after 15 years of the Tories having just done the same thing. Depressing nation atm. More so than any other "first world" nation I can think of.
 
neverdie said:
Everyone except anti-Chinese people (students of history included) would have to agree.

China may one day start overseas wars and so on but it isn't doing it yet (you only have limited internal problems and that threat to world security USA types call the "south China sea".
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That's exactly the way I see it too.
 
neverdie said:
Channel Tunnel.

Just make trade deals. But the UK has been the tail which has wagged in whatever direction the US lurched ever since 1945. Does it dare disturb that? Maybe. It's a dying empire. No sense in staying with it long-term. In 30 years it might even be third, PPP, in economic terms (certainly won't be first in either GDP or PPP within 15).
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Yeah, the Chunnel does connect us, but I did mean more that we are an island. Again, I have to completely agree with you. Sadly I doubt very much if Kier has the balls to upset Trump and I have no doubt Trump will upset him sooner rather than later, but Kier like all before him will just make excuses and apologise (even if he did nothing wrong) and do anything he can to keep the special relationship going. Although, I don't think it's been all that special for the last decade.

Trump even managed to royally piss the Queen off when he visited by ignoring all the protocols meant to be adhered when with her. It still pisses me off he was given a State visit. Shouldn't have let the prick in the country.
 
langster said:
Yeah, the Chunnel does connect us, but I did mean more that we are an island. Again, I have to completely agree with you. Sadly I doubt very much if Kier has the balls to upset Trump and I have no doubt Trump will upset him sooner rather than later, but Kier like all before him will just make excuses and apologise (even if he did nothing wrong) and do anything he can to keep the special relationship going. Although, I don't think it's been all that special for the last decade.

Trump even managed to royally piss the Queen off when he visited by ignoring all the protocols meant to be adhered when with her. It still pisses me off he was given a State visit. Shouldn't have let the prick in the country.
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Without all the brashness the truth is the Trump is doing what most people who own America, let's say the richest 50, want him to do. Cutting government spending, etc. Neoliberalism. Soon to be massive tax cuts for that percentile. I give you 100 million, cash, you give me hundreds of millions in tax policies (or billions depending on who you are). They've all done it.

The dying empire is the add on.
 
FriedClams said:
Can we please threadban people who talk about USA invading Canada? Canada is a member of NATO, an American invasion is an all likelihood an end of the world as we know it scenario. It is NOT going to happen.
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I think people will stop talking about it when the president does

saying it's impossible is not right either because there's a power-hungry borderline fascist running the country
 
Tarrou said:
I think people will stop talking about it when the president does

saying it's impossible is not right either because there's a power-hungry borderline fascist running the country
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It is basically impossible to be fair. It would put the US in North Korean company. The whole world, often against it periodically, would be against it for the rest of the century. Also, the Greenland thing will force the EU to move directly to China imo if anything like that does happen. France offered to send troops of course.

So far it's all bluster with the exception of some genuinely mental shit. More to come though.
 
neverdie said:
It is basically impossible to be fair. It would put the US in North Korean company. The whole world, often against it periodically, would be against it for the rest of the century. Also, the Greenland thing will force the EU to move directly to China imo if anything like that does happen. France offered to send troops of course.

So far it's all bluster with the exception of some genuinely mental shit. More to come though.
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it's incredibly unlikely, that is obvious yes

but nothing is impossible under fascism which is the direction we're heading right now

so putting up imaginary lines that can't crossed is futile
 
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