The Title Race 2017/18 | Done and dusted.

[padr81]

too many over reactions on here. 30 games to go, but it is drifting into a 3 horse race and probably eventually a 2.

8 Games in my take on it.
City: We won't walk it. In games where we score first and early we will be amazing but today proved we still have a slightly soft center as did the goal v Everton. We'll be there or there abouts I feel and are faves at the minute but there are 30 games to go. How we bounce back from our first defeat and the fitness of Kompany are huge for us.

Pluses this season is we're winning with almost the exact same team as last year bar Walker. What he and Mendy add to our defence when the latter was fit is sheer pace to get back and cover. Delph is doing ok at LB but can be got at.

United: Easily 2nd favourites now. Not near the attacking depth we have at City but still strong. Much better depth at CB. Much of United challenge will depend on how quickly you can get Pogba back and up to speed. Jose's negativity in big games could go one of two ways. It will either win you the league or dump you out of the race. How he sets up at home vs the big teams will define your season I feel. You'll be well in race I feel.

Spurs: Finally putting there Wembley struggled behind them? Solid team, great CF and a good side. So far they look a little like they've not fully settled at home. If they can they'll be involved but I feel not quite good enough to bring it home.

Chelsea: Hanging on by a thread after today I feel. 9 points behind and must win their big games vs United at home and Liverpool away in November to stay in contention. Their squad looks a little thin and they really need Morata back and soon. Losing Morata and Kante with Hazard only getting back from injury is some serious bad luck. They never seemed to have anyone injured last season. Still they have the quality to win 9 or 10 games straight if they get everyone fit. Can't afford to fall further behind.

Liverpool and Arsenal: Gone, already.
I know they have the same points as Chelsea but Liverpool remind me of last seasons City. As Pep would say "great between both boxes, but not good enough in either box.", they'll thump some teams, have a few great wins over the top sides (particularly at home) but in the end concede too many defensive clanger and mess up too many great situations as they have already this season. When a team consistently has 3-4 times the shots of the opposition but gives up CCC's like Liverpool do

Arsenal I just don't know what to make of them. Rock solid vs Arsenal, decent players, look like they've turned a corner and then they go and Arsenal it up like today... Like Liverpool they'll shoot themselves in the foot too much.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I think there's no point in completing the league. Give City the title now and cancel the rest of the games. Let the English teams focus on CL instead of pointless league fixtures.

Oh what a great post, im stunned. It is a sad way to run one's live. I will spell it out for you: The players have a duty to give their best and compete until its over. However, imho City will win the title.

 

[el3mel]

Oh what a great post, im stunned. It is a sad way to run one's live. I will spell it out for you: The players have a duty to give their best and compete until its over. However, imho City will win the title.

What was you expecting ?

The way you're saying they're putting teams to submission is ridiculous. City have always been starting that strong and always thrash teams like these every season with big margins it's nothing new. Last 2 seasons they have the same exact start with fans saying exact same thing as now don't make me believe you're watching something extraordinary !

If we're surrendering the league title because of their very usual excellent start then no point in wasting efforts in pointless games then.

Their form will fall at one point or another. It'll depend if we're close to them and will grab the chance or not, but surrendering the league title to them now is ridiculous.

 

[GlastonSpur]

too many over reactions on here. 30 games to go, but it is drifting into a 3 horse race and probably eventually a 2.

8 Games in my take on it.
City: We won't walk it. In games where we score first and early we will be amazing but today proved we still have a slightly soft center as did the goal v Everton. We'll be there or there abouts I feel and are faves at the minute but there are 30 games to go. How we bounce back from our first defeat and the fitness of Kompany are huge for us.

Pluses this season is we're winning with almost the exact same team as last year bar Walker. What he and Mendy add to our defence when the latter was fit is sheer pace to get back and cover. Delph is doing ok at LB but can be got at.

United: Easily 2nd favourites now. Not near the attacking depth we have at City but still strong. Much better depth at CB. Much of United challenge will depend on how quickly you can get Pogba back and up to speed. Jose's negativity in big games could go one of two ways. It will either win you the league or dump you out of the race. How he sets up at home vs the big teams will define your season I feel. You'll be well in race I feel.

Spurs: Finally putting there Wembley struggled behind them? Solid team, great CF and a good side. So far they look a little like they've not fully settled at home. If they can they'll be involved but I feel not quite good enough to bring it home.

Chelsea: Hanging on by a thread after today I feel. 9 points behind and must win their big games vs United at home and Liverpool away in November to stay in contention. Their squad looks a little thin and they really need Morata back and soon. Losing Morata and Kante with Hazard only getting back from injury is some serious bad luck. They never seemed to have anyone injured last season. Still they have the quality to win 9 or 10 games straight if they get everyone fit. Can't afford to fall further behind.

Liverpool and Arsenal: Gone, already.
I know they have the same points as Chelsea but Liverpool remind me of last seasons City. As Pep would say "great between both boxes, but not good enough in either box.", they'll thump some teams, have a few great wins over the top sides (particularly at home) but in the end concede too many defensive clanger and mess up too many great situations as they have already this season. When a team consistently has 3-4 times the shots of the opposition but gives up CCC's like Liverpool do

Arsenal I just don't know what to make of them. Rock solid vs Arsenal, decent players, look like they've turned a corner and then they go and Arsenal it up like today... Like Liverpool they'll shoot themselves in the foot too much.

Spurs have the same number of points as last season so far from the same/equivalent fixtures. Which means that you could say that - so far - we're on course to hit 86 points again, a total that would have won the title in many Prem seasons past.

It also means that to call "United easily 2nd favourites" (and to also presume this means that City are top favourites) is ridiculously premature.

 

[RedRom]

In my last post of the day at this high and esteemed level, I will say that things are still very much up in the air, it could be a three team battle royale, or it could be more, but one thing is for certain, it will be fun finding out, as we do have a very exciting young team.

There is just so much potential in here, that even if we don't win the league this season, the experience that the likes of Rashford and Martial will gain will be invaluable for the following seasons.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

too many over reactions on here. 30 games to go, but it is drifting into a 3 horse race and probably eventually a 2.

8 Games in my take on it.
City: We won't walk it. In games where we score first and early we will be amazing but today proved we still have a slightly soft center as did the goal v Everton. We'll be there or there abouts I feel and are faves at the minute but there are 30 games to go. How we bounce back from our first defeat and the fitness of Kompany are huge for us.

Pluses this season is we're winning with almost the exact same team as last year bar Walker. What he and Mendy add to our defence when the latter was fit is sheer pace to get back and cover. Delph is doing ok at LB but can be got at.

United: Easily 2nd favourites now. Not near the attacking depth we have at City but still strong. Much better depth at CB. Much of United challenge will depend on how quickly you can get Pogba back and up to speed. Jose's negativity in big games could go one of two ways. It will either win you the league or dump you out of the race. How he sets up at home vs the big teams will define your season I feel. You'll be well in race I feel.

Spurs: Finally putting there Wembley struggled behind them? Solid team, great CF and a good side. So far they look a little like they've not fully settled at home. If they can they'll be involved but I feel not quite good enough to bring it home.

Chelsea: Hanging on by a thread after today I feel. 9 points behind and must win their big games vs United at home and Liverpool away in November to stay in contention. Their squad looks a little thin and they really need Morata back and soon. Losing Morata and Kante with Hazard only getting back from injury is some serious bad luck. They never seemed to have anyone injured last season. Still they have the quality to win 9 or 10 games straight if they get everyone fit. Can't afford to fall further behind.

Liverpool and Arsenal: Gone, already.
I know they have the same points as Chelsea but Liverpool remind me of last seasons City. As Pep would say "great between both boxes, but not good enough in either box.", they'll thump some teams, have a few great wins over the top sides (particularly at home) but in the end concede too many defensive clanger and mess up too many great situations as they have already this season. When a team consistently has 3-4 times the shots of the opposition but gives up CCC's like Liverpool do

Arsenal I just don't know what to make of them. Rock solid vs Arsenal, decent players, look like they've turned a corner and then they go and Arsenal it up like today... Like Liverpool they'll shoot themselves in the foot too much.

Great post.

 

[Winrar]

As much as I hate to admit it I currently have city as favorites - Its only 8 games in but they look very good so far and it doesnt feel like they will drop too many points judging by their performances so far this season. I think whether or not they run away with it will depend on how we do.

Of course we cant predict how an entire season goes just by the first 2 months but I'm just working with what we got so far

 

[utdalltheway]

In my last post of the day at this high and esteemed level, I will say that things are still very much up in the air, it could be a three team battle royale, or it could be more, but one thing is for certain, it will be fun finding out, as we do have a very exciting young team.

There is just so much potential in here, that even if we don't win the league this season, the experience that the likes of Rashford and Martial will gain will be invaluable for the following seasons.

Be careful, you'll get splinters in your arse from sitting on that fence

 

[Adisa]

Another thing is they look likely to add Sanchez in January and get another LB.
Quite ridiculous to be honest.

 

[Womp]

Another thing is they look likely to add Sanchez in January and get another LB.
Quite ridiculous to be honest.

We've got Shaw though

 

[Thunderhead]

Next two signings Sanchez and Messi for a combined for £20m

 

[acnumber9]

Spurs have the same number of points as last season so far from the same/equivalent fixtures. Which means that you could say that - so far - we're on course to hit 86 points again, a total that would have won the title in many Prem seasons past.

It also means that to call "United easily 2nd favourites" (and to also presume this means that City are top favourites) is ridiculously premature.

United are 6 points up on equivalent fixtures from last season. Extrapolated over 38 games that would have Utd on course for 95 points. We'd be bloody unlucky not to win the league really.

 

[Adisa]

We've got Shaw though

Depressing to be honest.
I'm a bit low right now. I didn't watch the game but reports that we parked the bus is dispiriting.
Make no mistake, it is a poor Liverpool side with one win in seven.
ANd our manager simply says, we had to defend cause they decided to attack.

 

[Womp]

Depressing to be honest.
I'm a bit low right now. I didn't watch the game but reports that we parked the bus is dispiriting.
Make no mistake, it is a poor Liverpool side with one win in seven.
ANd our manager simply says, we had to defend cause they decided to attack.

The doom and gloom is understandable but it's hardly the end of the world. This isn't a bad Liverpool side. Their form also means feck all coming into this game, they hate us and always play extremely well against us, always have. They were the better team against City before going down to 10 men and that was when they were away from home.

We went to probably the most difficult, or second most difficult place we will go to all season, without our best midfielder and our best defender and came away with a point.

I said I would have bitten anyone's hand off for a 1-0 win before the game, it wasn't to be but it's hardly the end of the world. Cheer up pal, I don't think we will win the title, but this result and the upcoming games against the big teams won't be the reason why. We are only 2 points behind and are still in the race, so if City ever do slip hopefully we can take advantage.

City's squad is complete whereas I still think we need a few more players imo. A left back, competition for Valencia and a proper attacker to play off the right.

Also it's true we parked the bus, but I don't think it was solely on Jose tbh. Everytime we got the ball, it was instantly dispossessed due to their press. They played very well and we didn't. Jose absolutely was cautious, but having Mkhitryan and Herrera putting through balls into no-one and losing the ball as soon as they got it didn't help.

Still love Herrera though

 

[ti vu]

The doom and gloom is understandable but it's hardly the end of the world. This isn't a bad Liverpool side. Their form also means feck all coming into this game, they hate us and always play extremely well against us, always have. They were the better team against City before going down to 10 men and that was when they were away from home.

We went to probably the most difficult, or second most difficult place we will go to all season, without our best midfielder and our best defender and came away with a point.

I said I would have bitten anyone's hand off for a 1-0 win before the game, it wasn't to be but it's hardly the end of the world. Cheer up pal, I don't think we will win the title, but this result and the upcoming games against the big teams won't be the reason why. We are only 2 points behind and are still in the race, so if City ever do slip hopefully we can take advantage.

City's squad is complete whereas I still think we need a few more players imo. A left back, competition for Valencia and a proper attacker to play off the right.

Also it's true we parked the bus, but I don't think it was solely on Jose tbh. Everytime we got the ball, it was instantly dispossessed due to their press. They played very well and we didn't. Jose absolutely was cautious, but having Mkhitryan and Herrera putting through balls into no-one and losing the ball as soon as they got it didn't help.

Still love Herrera though

Agree. People often forgot how L'pool is more motivated and overall performs well in big game, that goes back to last season. The City game was one off with a game changing event, it's not the norm. Well known game raising.

 

[Adisa]

The doom and gloom is understandable but it's hardly the end of the world. This isn't a bad Liverpool side. Their form also means feck all coming into this game, they hate us and always play extremely well against us, always have. They were the better team against City before going down to 10 men and that was when they were away from home.

We went to probably the most difficult, or second most difficult place we will go to all season, without our best midfielder and our best defender and came away with a point.

I said I would have bitten anyone's hand off for a 1-0 win before the game, it wasn't to be but it's hardly the end of the world. Cheer up pal, I don't think we will win the title, but this result and the upcoming games against the big teams won't be the reason why. We are only 2 points behind and are still in the race, so if City ever do slip hopefully we can take advantage.

City's squad is complete whereas I still think we need a few more players imo. A left back, competition for Valencia and a proper attacker to play off the right.

Also it's true we parked the bus, but I don't think it was solely on Jose tbh. Everytime we got the ball, it was instantly dispossessed due to their press. They played very well and we didn't. Jose absolutely was cautious, but having Mkhitryan and Herrera putting through balls into no-one and losing the ball as soon as they got it didn't help.

Still love Herrera though

I predicted us to finish third, still stick to it. So in the grand scheme of things, the result is about par.
However, I think our approach to big games does us a disservice.
We are a better team than Liverpool with better ball players. Why should we be the ones being harassed?
Imo, our players are already put on the psychological backfoot by being told to play so deep against a team they know they're better than.

 

[RedRom]

Be careful, you'll get splinters in your arse from sitting on that fence

Ohh my first post of the next day!

Two more after this got to make them good ones!

Anyway, no fence sitting, we have had a good start to the season, one poor performance away at Liverpool doesn't change that.

It is still very early in the season, and there is the potential for a fair few twists and turns!

We look fantastic, City look good, Spurs are improving in every match, so far only really Chelsea have been below par (as I don't expect Arsenal nor Liverpool to be too involved at the top of the league).

I am looking forward to when we get our injured players back like Fellaini, Ibra, Pogba, Rojo and Jones.

When they are back respectively, then our squad improves massively, and we will then hopefully become even better than we currently are, (which is a scary thought in itself).

 

[Womp]

I predicted us to finish third, still stick to it. So in the grand scheme of things, the result is about par.
However, I think our approach to big games does us a disservice.
We are a better team than Liverpool with better ball players. Why should we be the ones being harassed?
Imo, our players are already put on the psychological backfoot by being told to play so deep against a team they know they're better than.

Because trying to dominate Liverpool in their half with the pace they have and with our squad being handicapped is suicide. People need some perspective, our best player - who also happens to be the only player in our squad who is happy to receive balls and be pressed was out. He's our only ball carrying midfielder. Herrera and Mkhitryan being shocking didn't help (something that is starting to become associated with Mkhi). We also missed Bailly's ability to push forward and close players down before they get close to the box.

TBF though, I don't think Jose asked them to go out and be as defensive as we were, so I don't buy that psychological backfoot stuff. We started the game off getting forward, we were just shocking and losing the ball high up the pitch and they were threatening so as a result the players dropped back, natural response to the fact that Liverpool were simply up for this game and had probably their best performance of the season so far imo anyway.

He also made two 'offensive' substitutions to try and nick a win - but it didn't work out. So I don't agree he came here to purely park the bus. Was he cautious? Absolutely, but he didn't come to only park the bus imo.

 

[GlastonSpur]

United are 6 points up on equivalent fixtures from last season. Extrapolated over 38 games that would have Utd on course for 95 points. We'd be bloody unlucky not to win the league really.

Extrapolating the same rate of increase over the course of the season is not comparable with what I posted.

Being 6 points up on equivalent fixtures from last season puts you on course currently to finish with 75 points.

 

[Adisa]

Because trying to dominate Liverpool in their half with the pace they have and with our squad being handicapped is suicide. People need some perspective, our best player - who also happens to be the only player in our squad who is happy to receive balls and be pressed was out. He's our only ball carrying midfielder. Herrera and Mkhitryan being shocking didn't help (something that is starting to become associated with Mkhi). We also missed Bailly's ability to push forward and close players down before they get close to the box.

TBF though, I don't think Jose asked them to go out and be as defensive as we were, so I don't buy that psychological backfoot stuff. We started the game off getting forward, we were just shocking and losing the ball high up the pitch and they were threatening so as a result the players dropped back, natural response to the fact that Liverpool were simply up for this game and had probably their best performance of the season so far imo anyway.

He also made two 'offensive' substitutions to try and nick a win - but it didn't work out. So I don't agree he came here to purely park the bus. Was he cautious? Absolutely, but he didn't come to only park the bus imo.

I'm not saying we should go gung-ho. We could be compact and still pose a serious attacking threat. I can't see why not.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Extrapolating the same rate of increase over the course of the season is not comparable with what I posted.

Being 6 points up on equivalent fixtures from last season puts you on course currently to finish with 75 points.

Every betting agency and probabilistic model has United as clear second favorites. Hardly 'ridiculously premature' to agree with them.

 

[RooneyLegend]

It's a one horse race, the sooner some accept it the better. The thing is, they are the only side that's close to the elites in Europe in the league, everyone else seems to have their own issues. We're stuck in 04, Spurs haven't improved and have Wembley blues, god knows what's up at Chelsea, Pool can't defend or put the ball in the back of the net and arsenal don't take winning titles all that seriously.

 

[AshRK]

I thought I would come on here today and see some degree of City love but even I am surprised about the extent. They are easily the most loved side on RedCafe and that's even including United's best teams.

And that is very sad considering how much crap the bluemoon feckers talk about us. I know our fans are more classy but to overrate them for everything is irritating as feck

 

[red_devil83]

The amount of drama in here

 

[ti vu]

I'm not saying we should go gung-ho. We could be compact and still pose a serious attacking threat. I can't see why not.

Why? Because we didn't have that bridge to attack fluidly. That bridge being Pogba, or Fellaini to some extend give us a dimension to bring the ball out. That bridge was broken being Mkhi was shocking. Martial did well on ball but same old problem when it come to be alive off ball when the chance for quick counter come despite some improvement. That bridge did not exist since we didn't buy a proper winger and back the Ashley Young, former left wing, SS, as right winger this game.

Tactic, approach still needs personnel to work. You can't magically ask a player to play differently from their natural game however high their talent in a certain roles is . This game we lack personnel to gain the cutting edge. Even our better players can improve from the form show this game. DDG made bad kick, Jones nearly gifted L'pool a chance and couple poor clearance...

 

[breakout67]

And that is very sad considering how much crap the bluemoon feckers talk about us. I know our fans are more classy but to overrate them for everything is irritating as feck

The same posters climaxing over City are the same ones pissing on the way we play football. A win only counts if it involves 100 passes before a goal, our players are shite and City's are amazing etc.

City drew at home to Everton while we beat them 4-0. City beat Liverpool 5-0 while we drew 0-0.

I am confident that we can get a result out of our games with city; a draw away and win at home. Because City have already shown clear weaknesses in their team in games like Everton and Bournemouth. And they are very reliant on De Bruyne (who is an inconsistent player).

City were 3-0 up against stoke and let them get 2 goals on them; that is a dangerous way to play and a better team would have put them to the sword for an equalizer.

 

[padr81]

Spurs have the same number of points as last season so far from the same/equivalent fixtures. Which means that you could say that - so far - we're on course to hit 86 points again, a total that would have won the title in many Prem seasons past.

It also means that to call "United easily 2nd favourites" (and to also presume this means that City are top favourites) is ridiculously premature.

It doesn't matter though mate. United are way better off then last season so far (as are City) I believe it was matchweek 7 when you guys hammered us and knocked us out of our stride. You are on 17 points from 8 games, I don't know where you get 86 points out of but by my reckoning at your current rate you are heading for about 82-83 points. United are heading to as already said 95 and City 104-105. We know City won't get 104 points, I'm pretty sure United won't get 95 either. Why do you think your current rate is manageable but Uniteds/Cities are not?


You are behind United currently and you have Liverpool, United, Arsenal to play in the next two months with 2 games against Madrid and a trip to Dortmund coming up. Thats 6 proper tough games, 3 huge ones in the league and you'll be able to rest no one in the CL.
United have a home game vs you guys and games in the CL against Benfica and Basel in the next 2 months. The reality is they could be qualified in the CL after 4 games and have a much easier schedule then you guys.
City have Arsenal at home in the same time and despite a double header v Napoli in the CL and a home game with Feyenoord, we have a bigger squad and pile up of games should be less of an issue.

At the start of December I'll be surprised in you are with 8 points of the top. I'd expect you to make up ground over the Christmas but thats why I would say both Manchester clubs are bigger favorites then you.
City are favorites because we've been the best team, United 2nd favorites because they've been the second best team thus far.

It's not rocket science, there is a reason the bookies have you around 14/1 to win the title, with United 4 or 5/1 and City odds on. Are they ridiculously premature?

 

[OohAahMartial]

City have the best team by a distance.
Finishing second would be a great achievement considering where we have been.

Finishing second would be a huge leap forward for us. Even getting back into the top 4 is a leap ahead but to go from 6th to 2nd would be excellent especially as we are very much a work in progress with obvious weak positions in the starting XI at LB, RW and 10, and in the squad in midfield. Top 2 and making life difficult for an exceptional city side plus a good Cup run and quarters place in CL would be a great season and platform to really go for trophies next season with a finished team.

We also benefit from the fall of Arsenal and a drop off from Chelsea--and we have now helped end Liverpool's title hopes and maybe even Klopp's Anfield stay. If the top 6 battle becomes a three horse race its excellent news for us for the next few seasons, making CL qualification an annual occurence again.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The next month or so is absolutely huge for us. We play Spurs (H), Chelsea (A) and Arsenal (A) in a short time. Apart from winning the other easier games in between, I think we need two wins from those 3 otherwise City will build up a healthy lead.

 

[deafepl]

Everyone is overrating City as the favourite team regardless of their performance against Chelsea and Liverpool. They played a 10 mans Liverpool with the third-worst defence this season, only got one goal against Chelsea while Morata got injured, drew with Everton and scored a late goal against Bournemouth.

Man City have 50/50 to drop points against next game, Burnley is not easy, they drew Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham away this season

Manchester United still keep their most clean sheets and at least conceded the fewest goal and are beat second scoring goal team this season. they are going to rival the Manchester City for the title.

Manchester City may drop some points, lose some games and get a draw. Just like any teams, it'd be silly to expect a team to walk the league away with 38 wins. it is still too early to say who will win.

 

[LoneStar]

Imagine if the players had as little faith/fight/backbone/spirit/optimism as some of the fans? Season well and truly would be over....

Good thing the opinion of fans on here and elsewhere online means feck all then, eh? Handing City the title with 30 games to go. And people laugh at Moyes and his mentality.

 

[AgentP]

Lets see how the top 6 have performed against each other so far

City - Liverpool(H) win , Chelsea(A) win - 6/6
United - Liverpool(A) draw - 1/3
Spurs - Chelsea(H) loss - 0/3
Chelsea - Spurs(A) win, City(H) loss, Arsenal(H) draw - 4/9
Liverpool - Arsenal(H) win, City(A) loss, United(H) draw - 4/9
Arsenal - Liverpool(A) loss, Chelsea(A) draw - 1/6

Except City, the rest have all dropped points. Arsenal will end up with the worst score as always.

 

[Rafateria]

Agree. People often forgot how L'pool is more motivated and overall performs well in big game, that goes back to last season. The City game was one off with a game changing event, it's not the norm. Well known game raising.

This 'game-raising' term I often seen thrown about here is actually a load of bollocks. You can't play above your abilities, ever, what you are doing is meeting your potential, whether that's as a team or as an individual, that's the standard you could reach and play at every week (though of course no-one ever does). Basically yesterday showed that Liverpool have a good team but individual mistakes at both ends will rule them out of any form of challenge (still good for Top 4 IMO).

The league fixture list has thrown up some anomalies that have, IMHO, made United look better than they actually are. Their improvement up front with an in-form Lukaku has seen them walk over some teams from the nether reaches of the PL and their defence has been as solid as it was for most of last season, even if a big dollop of luck due to Liverpool's continued profligacy contributed mightily to yesterday's point. This doesn't mean they won't improve as the season goes on but Lukaku and Matic have already gelled so it's not as if new players still need to settle. United fans can complain about the loss of Pogba but then Chelsea have lost Morata & Kante, & Liverpool have lost Mane, Lallana and Clyne so United are far from the only ones suffering injury issues and arguably with their extended strength in depth it's affected them less even though bringing their performances down a notch.

Before the season started I predicted City would win the league (and I predicted Chelsea last season too - buy your lotto tickets now) due to attacking strength, having rectified their FB issues with 4 new players and overall strength in depth, it's what a gazillion spent on transfer fees buys you. Clearly they are a much better team, will still win the PL comfortably for me ... and could do very well in the CL too.

United are difficult to judge. Improved on last season but not even close to the finished article I believe and nowhere close to Mourinho's PL winning CFC team which is the archetypal formula he seems to be basing this new United style on. I'm still to be convinced, at this point in time, that they are Top 2 standard, Top 3 or 4 for sure.

Of the others then Spurs look solid again, though were lucky to escape with the points versus Bournemouth yesterday - a lack of finishing by both teams contributing to a low scoring match, it's a long season and I'm yet to be convinced as they have looked very hit or miss and with CL commitments and a lack of squad depth any injuries to key players could seriously hinder them.
I had them out of the Top 4 before the season began however I may have over-rated Chelsea who seem to lack depth and consistency. Chelsea have been very very lucky in recent seasons with injuries, maybe this one is when the chickens come home to roost.

Arsenal are clearly the weakest of the Top 6 as far as I'm concerned and should fulfill my prediction of 6th. Wenger should have gone and they should have used this season to rebuild under a new manager, maybe they are waiting on someone.

Liverpool need to overcome their serious profligacy, it's actually a bigger issue than the defence. Maybe that is actually the level of the players and it can't be overcome but it's going to cost them. They have been the 'better' team (in terms of chances created) in every single match they've played this season (bar City but even then they were slightly the better team prior to the Red Card) but that failure to put teams away gives everyone they play a chance. I think they have enough to make Top 4 again though (especially if they get Keita and/or VVD in January) as they will do well enough in the Top 6 matches to stop other potential 'Top 4' teams pulling away.

 

[ti vu]

This 'game-raising' term I often seen thrown about here is actually a load of bollocks. You can't play above your abilities, ever, what you are doing is meeting your potential, whether that's as a team or as an individual, that's the standard you could reach and play at every week (though of course no-one ever does). Basically yesterday showed that Liverpool have a good team but individual mistakes at both ends will rule them out of any form of challenge (still good for Top 4 IMO).

The league fixture list has thrown up some anomalies that have, IMHO, made United look better than they actually are. Their improvement up front with an in-form Lukaku has seen them walk over some teams from the nether reaches of the PL and their defence has been as solid as it was for most of last season, even if a big dollop of luck due to Liverpool's continued profligacy contributed mightily to yesterday's point. This doesn't mean they won't improve as the season goes on but Lukaku and Matic have already gelled so it's not as if new players still need to settle. United fans can complain about the loss of Pogba but then Chelsea have lost Morata & Kante, & Liverpool have lost Mane, Lallana and Clyne so United are far from the only ones suffering injury issues and arguably with their extended strength in depth it's affected them less even though bringing their performances down a notch.

Before the season started I predicted City would win the league (and I predicted Chelsea last season too - buy your lotto tickets now) due to attacking strength, having rectified their FB issues with 4 new players and overall strength in depth, it's what a gazillion spent on transfer fees buys you. Clearly they are a much better team, will still win the PL comfortably for me ... and could do very well in the CL too.

United are difficult to judge. Improved on last season but not even close to the finished article I believe and nowhere close to Mourinho's PL winning CFC team which is the archetypal formula he seems to be basing this new United style on. I'm still to be convinced, at this point in time, that they are Top 2 standard, Top 3 or 4 for sure.

Of the others then Spurs look solid again, though were lucky to escape with the points versus Bournemouth yesterday - a lack of finishing by both teams contributing to a low scoring match, it's a long season and I'm yet to be convinced as they have looked very hit or miss and with CL commitments and a lack of squad depth any injuries to key players could seriously hinder them.
I had them out of the Top 4 before the season began however I may have over-rated Chelsea who seem to lack depth and consistency. Chelsea have been very very lucky in recent seasons with injuries, maybe this one is when the chickens come home to roost.

Arsenal are clearly the weakest of the Top 6 as far as I'm concerned and should fulfill my prediction of 6th. Wenger should have gone and they should have used this season to rebuild under a new manager, maybe they are waiting on someone.

Liverpool need to overcome their serious profligacy, it's actually a bigger issue than the defence. Maybe that is actually the level of the players and it can't be overcome but it's going to cost them. They have been the 'better' team (in terms of chances created) in every single match they've played this season (bar City but even then they were slightly the better team prior to the Red Card) but that failure to put teams away gives everyone they play a chance. I think they have enough to make Top 4 again though (especially if they get Keita and/or VVD in January) as they will do well enough in the Top 6 matches to stop other potential 'Top 4' teams pulling away.

Your first paragraph summed it up. Playing up to full potential in an occasion. It's hard to measure an inconsistent team full potential given their individual players hardly show up at top form all at one, let alone a full team. The other team can't not be sure all of their players would turn up at 100%. The likelihood of L'pool turned up in game raising mode in game vs us is evidently high. The occasion just naturally motivate and close the gap created by the consistency of 2 teams.

L'pool starting line up may have some flaw just like ours, but its quality is not to be underestimated. However, over the course of the season, squad depth, tactical flexibility play a huge role which L'pool likely downfall for L'pool. Against United, having this kind of performance and 1 point would feel good. However, this kind of result against some lower team just trying to nullify L'pool would create frustration and meantally stress the players. L'pool rotation options ain't as good and Klopp showed to be stubborn in his approach regardless of opponent may backfire over the season.

City has been for a while having the squad with quality and depth to challenge. That's why their coaching the last few seasons should be judged. Despite the change in coaching staff, head coach, City has clear vision to follow for quite a while. It's different from us having different style employed and different profile of players being bought.

 

[Sarni]

Have you seen them play? They force teams into submission. They played Everton off the park with 10 men. They will win the title with a considerable margin.

It's 8 games into season. They are always good for the first 5-10 games.

 

[Sarni]

And that is very sad considering how much crap the bluemoon feckers talk about us. I know our fans are more classy but to overrate them for everything is irritating as feck

Yeah it's frustrating because you just know their fans almost universally hate us but our fans on here actually largely love them.

 

[GlastonSpur]

It doesn't matter though mate. United are way better off then last season so far (as are City) I believe it was matchweek 7 when you guys hammered us and knocked us out of our stride. You are on 17 points from 8 games, I don't know where you get 86 points out of but by my reckoning at your current rate you are heading for about 82-83 points. United are heading to as already said 95 and City 104-105. We know City won't get 104 points, I'm pretty sure United won't get 95 either. Why do you think your current rate is manageable but Uniteds/Cities are not?


You are behind United currently and you have Liverpool, United, Arsenal to play in the next two months with 2 games against Madrid and a trip to Dortmund coming up. Thats 6 proper tough games, 3 huge ones in the league and you'll be able to rest no one in the CL.
United have a home game vs you guys and games in the CL against Benfica and Basel in the next 2 months. The reality is they could be qualified in the CL after 4 games and have a much easier schedule then you guys.
City have Arsenal at home in the same time and despite a double header v Napoli in the CL and a home game with Feyenoord, we have a bigger squad and pile up of games should be less of an issue.

At the start of December I'll be surprised in you are with 8 points of the top. I'd expect you to make up ground over the Christmas but thats why I would say both Manchester clubs are bigger favorites then you.
City are favorites because we've been the best team, United 2nd favorites because they've been the second best team thus far.

It's not rocket science, there is a reason the bookies have you around 14/1 to win the title, with United 4 or 5/1 and City odds on. Are they ridiculously premature?

Your figure of 95 points for United is based merely on projecting your current average points-per-game across the rest of the season, but that's far less realistic than actually taking the fixture list into account and looking at results compared to the same/equivalent fixtures last season.

If you do the latter it turns out that United are currently on track to get 75 points (6 points more so far than last season) and Spurs 86 points (the same points so far as last season) ... and this is also why talking about the start of December has little relevance.

Of course there are a variety of points/league place projection systems - including the par-scores system as discussed in https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the...a-the-peterstorey-table.432884/#post-21600251 - but looking at the current points-per-game-average after just 8 games is one of the least realistic.

Bookies odds reflect in part the amounts of money bet. So if I weighed in today with a £100m bet on Spurs the odds for them would tumble.

 

[acnumber9]

Extrapolating the same rate of increase over the course of the season is not comparable with what I posted.

Being 6 points up on equivalent fixtures from last season puts you on course currently to finish with 75 points.

Yes it is. Because Utd have shown improvement while Spurs have shown themselves to stand still. Why should Utd's improvement just stop? You're using the first 8 games to show the probability of what Spurs will achieve but not doing the same for Utd. It's no great surprise.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Your figure of 95 points for United is based merely on projecting your current average points-per-game across the rest of the season, but that's far less realistic than actually taking the fixture list into account and looking at results compared to the same/equivalent fixtures last season.

If you do the latter it turns out that United are currently on track to get 75 points (6 points more so far than last season) and Spurs 86 points (the same points so far as last season) ... and this is also why talking about the start of December has little relevance.

Of course there are a variety of points/league place projection systems - including the par-scores system as discussed in https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the...a-the-peterstorey-table.432884/#post-21600251 - but looking at the current points-per-game-average after just 8 games is one of the least realistic.

Bookies odds reflect in part the amounts of money bet. So if I weighed in today with a £100m bet on Spurs the odds for them would tumble.

It’s not the be all end all - bookies still decide odds using an actuarial process. Ultimately it reflects sentiment and what people see with their own eyes. If that makes them place bets on a side winning the league then it’s a reflection of how well that team is doing.

People have seen United blowing away teams this year in a manner not seen last year. People aren’t seeing anything new with Spurs, except perhaps some underwhelming home performances and a quieter Dele Alli.

United’s position as second favourites makes sense and is a fair reflection of what’s happened so far.

 

[acnumber9]

Which if projected forward unchanged 'til the season end would mean:

Man. City - 81 points
Man. Utd - 76 points
Chelsea - 75 points
Spurs - 74 points
Arsenal - 70 points
Everton - 67 points
Liverpool - 64 points

Interesting, but of course it won't work like that. For the remaining same/equivalent fixtures compared to last season, and based on the trends so far, I'd guess that:

* Man. Utd's drop-off will get worse.
* Everton, Liverpool and Man. City will further improve a bit.
* What happens with Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs is more difficult to assess.

I'm just going to leave this here and bold the important parts.