Some talents are recognisably special at a very early age i.e. Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Rooney, etc.
He falls in that category, barring any unfortunate & unforeseen incident.
The Striker Situation & Addressing the Goal Scoring issue this Summer
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
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Some talents are recognisably special at a very early age i.e. Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Rooney, etc.
He falls in that category, barring any unfortunate & unforeseen incident.
While I agree that Lingard was a huge problem in the lack of goals (arguably the biggest problem for me, in terms of appearances to goals. Shocking ratio), Jose loves him for some odd reason so I fully expect him to be starting alot of games next season unfortunately. I wouldn't be shocked if he starts on Matchday 1 either.
We really need him, Martial and Rashford to be contributing more goals if it's only Morata we will be adding.
Griezmann isn't going to happen in January. Makes absolutely no sense to anyone involved. Plus he has signed to stay until next Summer so people suggesting he will come in January have the blinkers on a bit TBH.
If I'm not wrong Chelsea got 10 goals from Pedro & Willian each & 17 from Hazard, over & above the 20 from Costa.
We need our peripheral players to contribute with goals big time!
Rashford & Martial should target 15 goals each minimum. New no.9 whoever that maybe should be giving 20 & a no. or winger if signed should be giving 10 goals.
Mata, Mkhi, Pogba & Herrera should also target 20 goals between them.
And the best teams get a good no. of goals from their defenders, we have negligible return in that department.
I feel quite strongly that we need at least TWO top strikers.
Throughout a season one main striker can get injured (like ibrahimovic), and I am not completely convinced that either Rashford or Martial can deliver goals consistently.
Beyond that a quality midfielder and central defender. If we spend big on these four position I am happy to live with Valencia and Darmian or Blind at RB and LB for another season. Also, a few of our junior defenders will be a season older and I'd like them getting more games.
Throughout a season one main striker can get injured (like ibrahimovic), and I am not completely convinced that either Rashford or Martial can deliver goals consistently.
Beyond that a quality midfielder and central defender. If we spend big on these four position I am happy to live with Valencia and Darmian or Blind at RB and LB for another season. Also, a few of our junior defenders will be a season older and I'd like them getting more games.
Exactly. My point was just that all the top teams have players who can potentially produce a world class season and it's up to the manager to bring it out of his teams.
You already have a squad good enough to challenge for the league IMO after bringing in a striker. Just like many other PL teams, and I'm not buying the argument that your players are not good enough. In a correct system and if the players play to their ability I don't think there's much separating the top 6.
Willian 8. Pedro 9. Hazard 16.
And you expect Rashford (5 goals last season from 32 games) and Martial (4 last season from 31 games mostly on the wing - and he's not going to be played at CF, where he got 11 the previous season) to now score 15 each minimum ?!?! feck !? Where on earth are people's heads at !?!?!
Pretty sure couple of games aside Martial played on the left in his first season as well, it was Rooney or Rashford that were played in the no.9 role.
So you are saying, 5 & 4 goals from Rashford & Martial are acceptable returns from forwards? Shouldn't they be targeting 12-15 goals each? I'm hoping Rashford sees himself as a 25 goal striker some day, if not he will never survive as a striker at a club like United!
Where did I say they are acceptable returns ? Clearly I'm saying that to expect (to use your words) ' a minimum of 15 goals each' is about as unrealistic as me holidaying on the moon.
Whether Rashford will ever be a 25 PL goals a season striker I couldn't say, he hasn't looked it yet but it's still early days and strikers can suddenly bloom. However he's not going to achieve that at United because Mourinho will never him the time as a CF to sink or swim. United are always going to buy in proven top talent and will be near to impossible, in these times, for Rashford, or any other young striker, to rise to the top at a club like United. A season ago RC was creaming themselves over Martial's potential - well Mourinho has put that to bed as he won't get enough opportunities at CF either.
Ofcourse strikers will miss big chances
Sanchez, Aguero, Kane, they are all on that list. However what is important is the difference in the amount of big chances, Zlatan has 17 whilst they others are around 8 or 9. That is nearly double.
Imo it confirms my feeling about Zlatan that I have had every time I seen him play. He is still good but he has become sloppy, many games I have been frustrated about him missing clear cut chances that you would expect a prime Ibra to finish. It is impressive he scored 17 but if you take into account how much he has played and how many big chances he has missed, it paints a different picture.
This lys the problem with Jose Mourinho, not only is guys like lingard and fellaini a major problem in how we play, Mourinho is very ultra defensive at times and this is why we don't score enough goals. Now look at how real madrid play the game, and look at the midfield 3 and front 3, all function, and are relentless in hurting sides. If Mourinho has any hope of winning the PL, he's got to evolve in how the team plays. United will remain toothless if the side remains very cautious, especially if see guys like lingard start mixing in the team holding back, who he will do nothing for most of the game, and he is an attacking player. Its like a boxer without hands
It looks like Jose is targeting only one striker this summer, which is a like for like replacement of Ibra with Morata.
So all in all, United forwards would be Morata, Rashford, Martial & Rooney.
This would be a huge error in my opinion & a lost opportunity for the club to finally have a great season in the post-Fergie era.
So all in all, United forwards would be Morata, Rashford, Martial & Rooney.
This would be a huge error in my opinion & a lost opportunity for the club to finally have a great season in the post-Fergie era.
If that happens then we will have a similar goal scoring season to last and I will lose complete faith in Mourinho.
We need to bring in 2-3 players for the first team that will guarantee goals. If we don't do that then this summer transfer window will be a disaster.
Exactly my fear. Even if Morata has an excellent first season & scores 30 goals in all comps (which is super optimistic), that just replaces Zlatan's goals from last season & leaves the team short of goals overall!
The thing is the rest of the pitch should be contributing more to goals ala Mata, Martial, Mkhitaryan, Pogba (depending on his role next season), Rashford etc.
Also, I honestly dont think Morata's the solution. Seriously if this kid's 24, just get Lewandowski for like 40 million more at most! It may be hard to convince him but thats where these people get there money. I've been saying this since the window started and we lost out on Greizzmann that Lewandowski is perfect for us and Mourinho's system. He's a perfect striker for the prem; tall, strong, broad, hard as fck, skillfull, excellent in the air, and he comes from a cold climate so he's not a wimp/fairweather like Morata coud be.
Seriously... If we could convince him he has the potential to be better and more impactful then RVN was for us in terms of goal returns, he's an absolute monster, and would be even better in our system with Mourinho.
Also, I honestly dont think Morata's the solution. Seriously if this kid's 24, just get Lewandowski for like 40 million more at most! It may be hard to convince him but thats where these people get there money. I've been saying this since the window started and we lost out on Greizzmann that Lewandowski is perfect for us and Mourinho's system. He's a perfect striker for the prem; tall, strong, broad, hard as fck, skillfull, excellent in the air, and he comes from a cold climate so he's not a wimp/fairweather like Morata coud be.
Seriously... If we could convince him he has the potential to be better and more impactful then RVN was for us in terms of goal returns, he's an absolute monster, and would be even better in our system with Mourinho.
We seem to be willing to spend an exorbitant sum on the right attacking player but unfortunately none of the heavy hitters are available.
I'd be disappointed if we just ended up bringing in Perisic in addition to Morata. We need more than that. We should use that money to get someone like Dembele. Make it count and all that.
I'd be disappointed if we just ended up bringing in Perisic in addition to Morata. We need more than that. We should use that money to get someone like Dembele. Make it count and all that.
I wouldn't worry. That's just the way it must seem from rumors and supposed leaks. Griezman I think was the only solid link and with that having panned out the way it did, I'm sure we have another option lined up for now.
Only signing Morata will almost guarantee it will be another season of battling to make the top four.
If we end up with only Morata and this Perisic guy then it will be a complete failure of a transfer window.
If we end up with only Morata and this Perisic guy then it will be a complete failure of a transfer window.
Not many players around that are available.
Dembele \ Dybala is out of the question since they are Barca\Spain bound and won't entertain the idea of the PL. Monaco isn't likely to sell us Lemar either with Silva already having left, Mbappe is a no go due to Madrid etc.
Not really a lot of inspiring options around.
Such a shame that Lorenzo Insigne literally is a midget, he would have been great for us, but Mourinho will never sign a 1,63m player
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We have to free the attacking wide players of there defensive duties to get the best out of them in final third with attacking freedom.
Let the 3 man midfeild contribute Defensively.
Let the 3 man midfeild contribute Defensively.
I think the plan was to play Griezmann off Morata, I never bought the idea that Morata was chosen over Griezmann. we needed two big attacking additions to make a title challenge but now it looks like we'll only get one along with a mediocre winger, so in line with that I think we'll have to modify expectations going into the season, the firepower just isn't in this team.
As long as we score 1 more goal than we conceed we will be fine, griezmann can be done next summer.
The winger will provide right balance in the team when played.
We need more firepower added than just Morata, it's why we failed last season to make the top 4 and will be the same problem this season, adding a low quality winger isn't going to make any difference and if Morata is it for the attack then we are barely replacing Ibra's goals.
Jose almost did not get the United job because a lot of people were skeptical about him. Three issues stood out for them in relation to United traditions: his perceived record in blooding young talents, his style of football and his often confrontational character.
I think Jose was determined to change those perceptions about himself either because he is keen on staying at United for a long time or simply because he wanted to improve his reputation. You may recall his 49 list of young players blooded.
Based on that likely resolve, it was predictable that he would give Rashford and Lingard lots of playing time afterall, those two are academy graduates. I suspect playing them frequently had a lot to do with making a statement and warming his way into the hearts of United fans as much as it had to do with liking players who put in the shift on and off the pitch.
It's a VERY tricky situation from where I sit.
Rashford, Martial, Mikhi, Mata and Lingard must be giving Jose problems right now.
What do you do with Rashford and Martial for instance? United has not been more excited about two young players in years than those two, perhaps minus Januzaj. Do you still want to give them a chance after last season? If yes, then you have to be careful how you bring in new players. Two top strikers coming in will certainly mean far less playing time for Rashford. Do you then move him wide? If yes, be ready for constant criticisms about how he is being misused by the manager because, they argue, his natural position is CF.
How about Mikhi and Mata? Do you buy a new number 10 and winger? If yes, what happens to those two? If no, can you afford to rely on those two next season considering how they underwhelmed last season?
If Jose gets a new striker, a winger and an attacking midfielder who is a number ten, something/someone has to give way. Somebody has to suffer siting on the bench a lot more. Knowing us, once that happens, we will begin to heap blames on Jose and forget about days like this when we are advocating for more buys.
Yes we need more firepower, but it's aslo important to make use of the firepower we have already which dint fire last season in martial mkh rashford and pogba as a goal scorer.
A better midfeild with the addition of the missing piece will really free up pogba to do the damage in the final third, and wingers with no defensive duties staying higher up the pitch with a mobile creative focal point will provide better penetration than last season and more team goals from other sources.
people seem to be forgetting much chances we actually created last season, if do the same next then any of the names mentioned i would fancy to score a shed load of goals for us, Rashford, Martial a bit more experienced, Miki and Pogba more settled, add in Perisic who had a good goal return last season, even if they all get 2/3 more goals then last season could see us mounting a title challenge,
Have we ever had weaker attacking options than we do now?
That conundrum can be solved easily buy changing how we play. Play 3 up top, with martial, a new striker who is top class like Robert lewandowski, and rashford or Mikhitaryan. Sell mata as we dont need him right now even though i totally love him as a player of immense quality and play pogba as attacking midfielder. Buy another central workhorse midfielder. Allow andres perriera to play as 10 sometimes and make pogba sit back as central midfielder with herrera or the new midfielder or maybe even blind.
On top of that buy a good winger to give martial a competition from left wing, or at times play rashford on left and the new signed winger on right.
Basically we need a very top striker, top quality winger, a cabaye like Central midfielder and maybe a left back.
It's not THAT tricky! Rashford will be second-choice forward, Martial will compete for the left wing position with new signing (probably Perisic) and Lingard will play much less, mostly as cover for Mkhi.
As for Mkhi and Mata, José will either play them or sell them imo, especially if Rooney stays and we buy more attacking mids. Mkhi will be a starter for sure, Mata not so sure. Ideally I'd want him at least on the bench but if Rooney ain't leaving, we get a new signing and Pereira is to get a chance, it's better we let him go.
There's a good chance though that we don't sign a no. 10. Mata has the potential to combine really well with Morata. In fact, I'm really looking forward to the 4 M's combining in attack. Pre-season will give a better idea.
It's up there with the worst in my 30 odd years of supporting United.
We need two world class forward players. A central striker and a goal scoring/game changing wide player.
I can't for the life of me understand why we aren't even in the running to sign Sanchez.
If Morata and Perisic are Mourinho's only two attacking signings then he really is placing an awful lot of faith in Rashford, Martial and Libgard majorly stepping up. It's a huge huge gamble.
I'm not sure, but it's pretty bad. As it stands we have a pretty shit forward line and even the ones who should be good on paper, are not looking like United level forwards. Our best front three right now would probably be:
Martial Rashford Mkhitaryan
And two of those are playing out of position, none of them are world class or offer a level of threat that a top level PL player would (Sanchez, Hazard, Aguero, etc.) we have the worst front line in the top 6 and we desperately need to improve it. Martial has real potential and if he's nurtured and gets his mojo back he could be a top player. Rashford I think has the potential to be good, but not first choice, and Mkhi is a classy forward who should become more consistent this year, but is a #10. Of course, we also have Lingard who I don't rate, Rooney who is pointless etc.
We are supposedly only targeting Morata and Perisic this summer, which means we'll still be using Mkhi out of place and relying on a CF who, while a good player and one I like, hasn't ever been the main forward for a club and scored consistently. I'm not sure that Perisic is a big improvement over Martial, other than defensively (and has a lower top level I think too), while Morata is definitely not on Zlatan's level, so we're looking worse, or at best, unimproved in an area where we struggled last season.
That part is never going to happen under Mourinho, you just needed to look at the workhorse winger we are hellbent on signing to see that.
I rate our 3 best wingers (Mkhi, Mata, Martial), and I'm very comfortable with Rashford as our backup 9. I think we just need a starting quality 9 like Morata or Lukaku there and we're decent up front, though lacking a proper star.
If we need to score more goals, and we do, I think we should seriously look at buying a box to box CM rather than a 6, assuming we can't get a passer like Weigl. Herrera did well as a 6 and adding a proper box to box 8 to play in front of him, next to Pogba, would give us extra juice going forward and Herrera and Lindelof would give us a good platform to move the ball from deep, rather than a normal DM who doesn't provide much playmaking or mobility.
I'd like to see us sign a 9, an 8 and an LB. I rate Shaw, but who knows how much he'll play. If Keita is the CM people seem to think he is, then this team would create too many chances for us not to score more than 54 league goals this time:
------Morata-----
Martial---Mkhitaryan
--Pogba-Keita--------
-----Herrera--------
Mendy---------Valencia
--Lindelof-Bailly------
-------De Gea--------
and then next summer we'll have only a few spots to fill, i.e a feck off star attacker like Mbappe, Bale, Griezmann, Ousmane Dembele or whoever the best attacker we can get is, with Mata or Lingard leaving, an RB to replace a 33 year old Valencia as the starter like Semedo or Henrichs (with Young or Darmian leaving), and a DM/CM to replace Carrick (retiring) and that's a proper team that shouldn't be crippled by injuries.
If we need to score more goals, and we do, I think we should seriously look at buying a box to box CM rather than a 6, assuming we can't get a passer like Weigl. Herrera did well as a 6 and adding a proper box to box 8 to play in front of him, next to Pogba, would give us extra juice going forward and Herrera and Lindelof would give us a good platform to move the ball from deep, rather than a normal DM who doesn't provide much playmaking or mobility.
I'd like to see us sign a 9, an 8 and an LB. I rate Shaw, but who knows how much he'll play. If Keita is the CM people seem to think he is, then this team would create too many chances for us not to score more than 54 league goals this time:
------Morata-----
Martial---Mkhitaryan
--Pogba-Keita--------
-----Herrera--------
Mendy---------Valencia
--Lindelof-Bailly------
-------De Gea--------
and then next summer we'll have only a few spots to fill, i.e a feck off star attacker like Mbappe, Bale, Griezmann, Ousmane Dembele or whoever the best attacker we can get is, with Mata or Lingard leaving, an RB to replace a 33 year old Valencia as the starter like Semedo or Henrichs (with Young or Darmian leaving), and a DM/CM to replace Carrick (retiring) and that's a proper team that shouldn't be crippled by injuries.
Herrera is not a first choice player for a PL winning side, and not even a first choice DM for a top 6 side.
If you're playing 3 up top you need a left footed winger on the right which United do not have. Mkhi should have his chance at 10 this season, and move on if it doesn't work.
Defensive midfield and the wings will be the key to a successful Mourinho second season. At present, I'm not convinced.
It can happen in a midfeild 3.
The 3 in midfield doesn't alter that, especially for a manager like Jose, look at even Barcelona, Neymar in particular is not absolved of defensive tasks.
Well a mid 3 only let's the defensive duties of wings to cover 50 m up and down and not 100 m so it's easier than a mid two.