If you are really saying that it is a personnel issue over a style issue then I strongly disagree. I really don't think we have far far worse options going forward than liverpool (incl Zlatan who is gone) and that liverpool scored much more goals than us because of personnel and not their style. Strongly strongly disagree. If we attacked more we would score more.
The Striker Situation & Addressing the Goal Scoring issue this Summer
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Morata looks like its happening. So thats the starting #9. If you look at our starting 11 though, we would still ideally want a winger/inside forward capable of getting 15-20 goals next season. Martial one day but no chance mourinho puts his trust in him after last season. Perisic does have goals in him but no idea if its happening.
I still hope we sign griezmann around january time, as that would be a very good front 2, morata and griezmann, and having mkhitaryan pitch in with goals as well. More likely we go back in for him in the summer though and not january.
I still hope we sign griezmann around january time, as that would be a very good front 2, morata and griezmann, and having mkhitaryan pitch in with goals as well. More likely we go back in for him in the summer though and not january.
Sanchez, Salah and Insigne are all better than 1 goal in 3 when played out wide this season. They'd be good options to join Morata/Belotti with the Griezmann deal dead.
In terms of a goal-scoring midfielder, Tolisso, Naby Keita, Cyprien and Nainggolan would be the best options (in a #8 role).
In terms of a goal-scoring midfielder, Tolisso, Naby Keita, Cyprien and Nainggolan would be the best options (in a #8 role).
First half of the season we showed we can play attacking football that would excite and will put teams to the sword. Issue was players were a bit lethargic, bobbling their chances, not clinical enough - call it whatever you want, but from those chances 20% at least should've been goals (citing the home games vs Stoke, WBA, Bournemouth, Everton, West Ham, Arsenal, City, may be there are more).
Pogba was not sharp, nor Zlatan was sharp enough too. We need some quality in the final third. Rashford, Martial have talent, but they're not the complete package. We need someone to deliver every week, while these two get to that level.
Pogba was not sharp, nor Zlatan was sharp enough too. We need some quality in the final third. Rashford, Martial have talent, but they're not the complete package. We need someone to deliver every week, while these two get to that level.
It is not only striker. We need goal scoring winger like robben, bale , neymar. Winger who can dribble, assist and score.
Yeah exactly. Those three are a bit hard to lure, but Auba or O Dembele seem more attainable and would slot in perfectly I think.
I think if we sign Morata we can build a more balanced attacking unit and hopefully get more out of at least one of last years underperformers in the wide areas, but I do think we need to add at least one more attacker that will add goals and creativity to the forward line, we lack a bit of stardust, the type of player @Andycoleno9 mentions.
Berardi and Insigne are top class technically. They also score and assist goals. If they don't flop in EPL then they are more than welcome.
We need a good crosser of the ball now that we've most likely got Morata who loves to get on the end of crosses.
Reckon it is just a waiting game between us and Inter for Perisic, Jose scouting Croatia a few months ago indicates that we've planned that one for a while.
Inter has to sell for FFP, and we can wait.
Reckon it is just a waiting game between us and Inter for Perisic, Jose scouting Croatia a few months ago indicates that we've planned that one for a while.
Inter has to sell for FFP, and we can wait.
Good thread. We essentially need to replace Ibra and Rooney. So we need someone who can be an effective No.9 as well as someone who could play as a second striker or #10 role. That will allow Mikhitaryan or Mata to play on RW or Martial + new winger to play on LW.
I think Morata (or any relatively young striker with potential) will do since we also have Rashford who is more than an able deputy in the striker position. If his development continues, we would not need to depend that heavily on our first striker as we had to rely on Ibra for goals.
Personally, I wouldn't mind buying Griezmann in the winter transfer window too if that's an option. I can't see anybody else being as good as him and the cost of missing out for half a season is not that big compared to the long-term benefit of having him. But that too depends on whether Athletico are able to get a replacement for him in the winter transfer window, which is unlikely. If Griezmann is not an option, then I don't know what we will do.
I completely agree with this post, including the bit about it being a good thread.
I think the Griezmann deal falling through completely moves the goalposts in respect of United's transfer activity. With Zlatan and Griezmann up front, I would have been delighted with adding Perisic and Fabinho.
With no Zlatan or Griezmann and someone like Morata coming in eating up a huge chunk of the transfer budget, the profile of winger and midfield player required completely changes. The team needs to replace the goals Griezmann was intended to add.
So, they will need to find a goal scoring number 10 (another Griezmann), a goal scoring winger (in the Sanchez, Hazard, Bale mould) or a more attacking central midfield player who can create and score (like Nainggolan). Or do they add another striker?
The issue is that United wouldn't have been laying the groundwork for these deals because Griezmann seemed likely. Do they now completely change tack or stick with the original plan and wait for Griezmann?
My preference is to get someone like Nainggolan in who now becomes a far higher priority than Fabinho (although I would be delighted with both), stick with Perisic and pick up Defoe as a squad option for free.
I think Martial can be our goalscoring winger. He got 17 goals under Van Gaal and I think his goals per game ratio wasn't so bad last season. If Mourinho can give him the starts next season, he can replicate that. It suits him because he's one of our more selfish players. Mkhitaryan, on the other hand, is more of a team player and I feel he can be an assist machine from the other wing.
We have Morata as our CF so all that's left is the ten (I presume we'll be playing 4-2-3-1). This player should be a goalscorer too. Ideally it would have been Griezmann and a front four of Morata in front of Mkhitaryan, Griezmann and Martial could have won us the league. The identity of this ten is the question to which we should next turn. I feel we need to get this player or we'll be going into next season hoping and wondering whether our team is good enough instead of with the confidence that we do have the quality.
I fear that player might not be gettable this summer, however, and we'll have to endure another year of purgatory.
We have Morata as our CF so all that's left is the ten (I presume we'll be playing 4-2-3-1). This player should be a goalscorer too. Ideally it would have been Griezmann and a front four of Morata in front of Mkhitaryan, Griezmann and Martial could have won us the league. The identity of this ten is the question to which we should next turn. I feel we need to get this player or we'll be going into next season hoping and wondering whether our team is good enough instead of with the confidence that we do have the quality.
I fear that player might not be gettable this summer, however, and we'll have to endure another year of purgatory.
Does he score many with his head?
Good thread. We need to replace Zlatan and Rooney who's been a passenger for 3 seasons. And add a winger/wingback, replace Carrick and add a CB to replace Rojo who's out until next year. In the midst of the most inflated summer ever. Wouldn't want to be in Ed's shoes...
Yes. His heading ability is among his best attributes.
Cheers, I dont know much about him but havent seen any goals scored with his head on youtube yet.
Just Youtube all goals he's scored this season. Also check out his outstanding header for Spain against Colombia the other day.
will do, thanks
Absolutely agree with this. This
Absolutely agree with this, beat me to it. I'd actually dread another season with Mata on the right. A striker and right winger is what's needed. Dembele, Insigne, Werner, even Mahrez would be an upgrade.
These are very rare. The players you just mentioned are comfortably among the best of their generation; the stars in the teams they play for. People around here seem to expect wingers to do everything, but the fact is most wingers are like Perisic; steady contributors who score about 10 a season, and mostly act as supporting cast rather than star players. I'm not saying I don't want us to sign the kind of dynamic, all-round winger you're talking about, just that we're unlikely to because they are very rare, and there probably aren't any available this window.
I think we need to buy one out and out striker (which seems likely).
Add to that one goal scoring wide man to help score and create.
Bring in a holding midfielder to give Pogba some more freedom going forward.
Rely on a bigger goal return from Rashford and Martial.
It seems likely that Morata will be the striker we sign. I'm not sure regarding the wide man.
Add to that one goal scoring wide man to help score and create.
Bring in a holding midfielder to give Pogba some more freedom going forward.
Rely on a bigger goal return from Rashford and Martial.
It seems likely that Morata will be the striker we sign. I'm not sure regarding the wide man.
I don't want United to emulate Liverpool because they scored more yes but conceded a tonne of goals. We should be looking to look up at Chelsea or Spurs who score a tonne of goals & conceded bare minimum.
Our defensive record was pretty decent last season, the goal scoring was a major issue. And the team missing chances due to poor finishing was personnel issue & can't be blamed on Jose's style!
Just signing Morata won't be enough in my opinion. Another goal scorer whether a no.9 or a no.10 or even a goal scoring no.11 is needed. Encouraged by the rumour that we are interested in signing Morata, Belotti AND Perisic. Not the best options in terms of top end quality considering the numbers being thrown around for these players but trust in Jose to know how to build a title winning squad!
We need at least a mobile second-striker and an experienced poacher, besides a winger.
Not sure what use two players who would never start would be.
Rather than two wingers and a defensive midfielder, which we don't have and would play most games.
Because not conceding wasn't a problem last season it was scoring goals.
Some goals on the bench wouldn't be too bad.
Spot on OP! Couldn't have said it better.
I've recently been mulling it over and realized the best Fergie teams had 4 proper forwards in them. My favourite combo had Ronnie, Rooney, Tevez.
So yes! imho, we need a minimum of 60- goals from our forwards.
At the moment we don't have anyone who scores 2 goals every other game like Kane does for spurs. If our overaching ambition is to win trophies and develop our players (Rashford in particular), we would definetly need another goal scorer in our starting line-up to pair with Morata.
My preference is Lacazette as he creates and scores, is available and wouldn't cosy a fortune.
I'd go:
De Gea
---Valencia----Bailly -----Jones------Shaw-----
Mkhitaryan-----Herrera-----Pogba-----Perisic
---------- Lacazette------Morata----------
Martial(LWF/ST)
Rashford (ST)
Edit: I suspect Belotti would not work well with Morata as they are both Target men and we would be tempted to just lump it forward
I've recently been mulling it over and realized the best Fergie teams had 4 proper forwards in them. My favourite combo had Ronnie, Rooney, Tevez.
So yes! imho, we need a minimum of 60- goals from our forwards.
At the moment we don't have anyone who scores 2 goals every other game like Kane does for spurs. If our overaching ambition is to win trophies and develop our players (Rashford in particular), we would definetly need another goal scorer in our starting line-up to pair with Morata.
My preference is Lacazette as he creates and scores, is available and wouldn't cosy a fortune.
I'd go:
De Gea
---Valencia----Bailly -----Jones------Shaw-----
Mkhitaryan-----Herrera-----Pogba-----Perisic
---------- Lacazette------Morata----------
Martial(LWF/ST)
Rashford (ST)
Edit: I suspect Belotti would not work well with Morata as they are both Target men and we would be tempted to just lump it forward
Not only our striker problem but the overall united problem can be solved in $200 mn.
Sell dead wood jones and buy direct replacement victor lindelof. Sell luke shaw and buy direct replacement b. mendy or anyone who js fit enough to last ninety minutes.sell young, sell rooney. The whole selling and buying would balance.
Buy dries mertens, buy pierre aubemyang for 100 mn each. = problem solved.
Have you realised why we couldn't score goals since fergie and why zlatan scored 28 goals? Look at the strikers we had since saf, falcao-injured, martial-unproven inexperienced, rashford - unproven inexperienced, rooney - lost his pace. How can we score goals with strikers like that. We got only one good world class striker and he scored 28 goals playing bad for us.
Our defense was okay this season, our midfield wad okay as well, our youth can be trusted, our past singings are good. We just need to put bullets in the revolver now instead of buying a bazooka and firing blanks.
Sell dead wood jones and buy direct replacement victor lindelof. Sell luke shaw and buy direct replacement b. mendy or anyone who js fit enough to last ninety minutes.sell young, sell rooney. The whole selling and buying would balance.
Buy dries mertens, buy pierre aubemyang for 100 mn each. = problem solved.
Have you realised why we couldn't score goals since fergie and why zlatan scored 28 goals? Look at the strikers we had since saf, falcao-injured, martial-unproven inexperienced, rashford - unproven inexperienced, rooney - lost his pace. How can we score goals with strikers like that. We got only one good world class striker and he scored 28 goals playing bad for us.
Our defense was okay this season, our midfield wad okay as well, our youth can be trusted, our past singings are good. We just need to put bullets in the revolver now instead of buying a bazooka and firing blanks.
I think you will find that it really is that straight forward.
If you buy a quality striker, he will score you goals.
Shearer.
RVN
RVP
Henry
Yorke
C.Ronaldo
Rooney
are all top strikers who did will in the EPL. Very rarely, would you buy a top striker and he fails to score big numbers of goals. If you know of any, please list these names (and please don't include Falcao...that guy was just a disaster).
Even last season, we brought in Ibra, who score more league goals than Martial, Mata, Miki combined!
If you buy a Galactico class striker, he WILL score you goals. No question about it.
I think we only need three players capable of playing upfront while also being able to fill in on the wings (Rashford/Martial/Morata). Then maybe an out-and-out winger (Perisic) filling as a fourth. Plus, we already have Mkhi and Mata.
Personally, I just don't see how we can get in two main strikers (Morata and Bellotti) and expect one of them to be content with sitting on the bench in the way Rashford did behind Zlatan this season.
At worst, we can always assess our situation in January and go all out for Griezmann.
Personally, I just don't see how we can get in two main strikers (Morata and Bellotti) and expect one of them to be content with sitting on the bench in the way Rashford did behind Zlatan this season.
At worst, we can always assess our situation in January and go all out for Griezmann.
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I think Morata will be a good signing but we're going nowhere fast if Lingard, Fellaini and Rashford are frequently involved in our front six. They're just not good enough.
I'd say that Perisic isn't much better than that trio either so Morata simply wont be enough on his own as we'd have too many attacking deficiencies.
I'd say that Perisic isn't much better than that trio either so Morata simply wont be enough on his own as we'd have too many attacking deficiencies.
Presumably if conceding was an issue you'd have signed a lot of goalkeepers?
We cant buy a new starting XI, so we need to add as much quality as possible with the 4-6 transfers we will likely get
1. A solid defence is a needed platform for other players to push forward with more freedom. Getting Lindelof and (hopefully) Fabinho should address that.
2. Need to get a quality LB that can push forward and contribute to the attack. Not convinced on Semedo and Mendy defensively and Juve seems unwilling to sell Sandro
3. We need 1-2 high quality AM to either play as a #10 or on the flank. The players should be able to provide 10+ goals and 10+ assists in the league. James and Griezmann are the only players of that level that seem to be in the market.
4. Need a quality #9 and getting Morata should address that
If we get 5-6 quality additions, it should take us to another level where can compete for the PL next season.
1. A solid defence is a needed platform for other players to push forward with more freedom. Getting Lindelof and (hopefully) Fabinho should address that.
2. Need to get a quality LB that can push forward and contribute to the attack. Not convinced on Semedo and Mendy defensively and Juve seems unwilling to sell Sandro
3. We need 1-2 high quality AM to either play as a #10 or on the flank. The players should be able to provide 10+ goals and 10+ assists in the league. James and Griezmann are the only players of that level that seem to be in the market.
4. Need a quality #9 and getting Morata should address that
If we get 5-6 quality additions, it should take us to another level where can compete for the PL next season.
Don't know why people are discounting our current squad as if it's rubbish. Mkhitaryan and Martial will do better next season and get those goals we've been missing.
Morata is a great signing in that respect. His link-up play will create chances for midfielders around him. Mata will love playing with him.
I expect us to get at least 50 league goals from a front four of Mkhitaryan (10), Mata (10), Martial/Perisic (15) and Morata (15). Rashford will score 10 from the bench, Pogba and Fellaini about 5-10 from midfield/set-pieces. Even Rooney, with the added pace around him, I expect to get five.
So that's 70-75 goals in the league. Of course, ideally we would push for more, perhaps add another striker just to be safe and a replacement for Rooney. But we certainly don't need wholesale changes like many on here are advocating.
It's neither practical nor desirable. Making a successful football team is more than about "balancing the books."
Morata is a great signing in that respect. His link-up play will create chances for midfielders around him. Mata will love playing with him.
I expect us to get at least 50 league goals from a front four of Mkhitaryan (10), Mata (10), Martial/Perisic (15) and Morata (15). Rashford will score 10 from the bench, Pogba and Fellaini about 5-10 from midfield/set-pieces. Even Rooney, with the added pace around him, I expect to get five.
So that's 70-75 goals in the league. Of course, ideally we would push for more, perhaps add another striker just to be safe and a replacement for Rooney. But we certainly don't need wholesale changes like many on here are advocating.
It's neither practical nor desirable. Making a successful football team is more than about "balancing the books."
Excellent post. Interestingly, I'm assuming you're banking on a combination of better chemistry and Fabinho? I mean, the majority of the people you mentioned are already in our team, you're just talking about better cohesion as a whole. About the only thing I'm not sure about is banking on Rooney, as we don't know what's going to happen there.
Agree with you regarding the fact that a total rebuild some people are clamoring for is unnecessary. We've got SO much quality in our team that just needs to start firing (Martial, Rash, Pereira - hopefully). Do you think there are any formation or tactical adjustments Mou will make compared to last season? Do you think with the upcoming signings it will allow him to make any changes, or is it more a refinement now?
His ratio was awful .... in the 1 goal per 350+mins range in the PL (I've posted this once, can't be arsed looking for it again) and he got plenty of minutes last season (not quite as many as Rashford but not too far off). It's amazing that in this thread most people seem to have completely binned Rashford and Martial, both enthusiastically espoused here on RC as new world class superstars. Martial scores when he's played at CF, he's not a winger.
However, SirMattBusby above poses the right question, how is it everyone is writting off some of your current squad ? And has Mourinho done the same ?
You need to look at why Martial crashed and burned last season. He's much better than that but it seems Mourinho, as his history proves conclusively, is no lover of giving sufficient time to develop young talent, and if you end up buying half of the players put forward in this thread then I forecast Martial will be gone Summer 2018.
Rashford is another one, yes you're going to have plenty of games but he is another one with a very poor goal return in the PL, again 1 goal per 300+ mins (even Origi had almost a 50% better return by ratio of goals to mins and so far he's not in Rashford's class). Lingard is surely gone 2018 too as where is he going to get serious game time next season ? The LC and FAC won't do it. So does Mourinho have the patience to persist with them ?
Personally I see United as requiring players in nearly the same positions as Liverpool : LB, CB, CM, Striker. Four top class players (though not sure Keane falls into that bracket as he seems like he'll be your new CB) and it wouldn't mean the end of Martial & Rashford, though they would be pushed out onto the wings, or playing off the CF though I don't see that happening.
If you don't, however, see them as wide midfielders then they will see little action, they didn't get as many minutes as they would have liked last season, with new players in the squad their opportunities will only decrease, and that won't go down well with them in a WC year.
You have to consider, as one of the posters made the point above, at whether the lack of goals is due to the players or the manager (formation & tactics). The manager isn't going to change, Mourinho being set in his ways and his title winning Chelsea team is now his PL blueprint, he rarely plays with two strikers on the pitch, and why are people calling for another AM when you already have Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Mata ? Pogba will clearly play as the most advanced midfielder, effectively as AM, next season and that leaves a striker and two wide players.
So instead of playing FM and concentrating all your attention on bringing in a whole host attacking players (LW, AM, 2 strikers), as posters have mentioned in this thread, you need to think like Mourinho, because a) that isn't him and b) I'd be shocked if he's suddenly going to suddenly bin all of his attacking players and start next season with virtually a whole new attack. As I said LB, CB, CM & one Striker, that's what I think you'll get.
Agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm sick of people saying "we need a Robben or a Neymar" while completely ignoring the fact that those are once in a generation players that simply aren't available this window. Griezmann was the one X factor player that we could have got and we missed out. Tough. We have to make do with what we've got. I particularly agree that Mikhi and Martial are set for vastly improved seasons.
More generally, it's really important not to generalise the lack of goals this season as though it was just down to players not getting enough. There were three periods in the season that saw vastly different outputs from our team. The first was where we had a long string of draws after our bright start, when we were still working out our system. The second period was when we started winning regularly, and even though we didn't score as much as we should have, we were largely excellent going forward, with Mikhi, Mata, and Pogba the creative architects in chief. The third period was when we were hit with injuries to our two most prolific players (Mata and Zlatan) plus a host of defenders that basically resulted in Mourinho throwing the league. In my opinion, our last ten league games this season simply cannot be compared to the rest of the campaign, as we were basically in damage control.
I honestly believe (and I could understand being called excessively optimistic here) that we can sustain the form we had for that middle period of the season much longer this time around. Jose knows his players a lot better now and although we'll never be the top scorers in the league with only Morata and Perisic as our attacking additions, I think in combination with the improvements from the likes of Mikhi, Martial and Rashford we can expect a much better and more consistent output.
It's impossible to say that with any certainty. There's as much chance of them being just as bad next season.
Better chemistry is key, and something Mourinho uses to great effect. At Chelsea it was Costa-Fabregas, this season Zlatan-Pogba. Next season might be even better because of Morata's link-up and mobility, the latter of which Zlatan lacked.
Don't think there will be any drastic formation changes, in the sense we wouldn't be having a 3-4-2-1 like Chelsea. Back four, Pogba and Herrera in midfield and Morata striker. Remaining three positions would depend on opposition and current form (extra man in central midfield against strong opposition, extra attacking mid against West Brom, Rashford plus Morata against three-man backline, etc).
One thing is for sure though. Lingard will be playing less.
My only worry here is, Mourinho has always had a clear-cut first eleven. Here, with prospective signings, it will be more of a 'first eighteen', from which the choice of eleven might change from time to time and at certain stages, even match to match.
Obviously I'm sure he'll be up to it, but it will be interesting to see, for example, how he handles a possible competition between Perisic and Martial.
Of course, it's nothing more than an educated guess.
Thing is, Martial had perhaps his first experience with the hard work he might have to put in to consistently succeed at the top level, while Mkhitaryan, like at Dortmund, took some time to settle. Come next season, I believe they have the quality to play a bigger role and contribute more in attacks. Just my opinion though.
For me, the striker situation needs more than 1 major signing, and I'd really like to see some dynamic players brought in - players like Sanchez who can unlock a defense but aren't flimsy or lightweight.
It's genuinely odd for the richest club in the world to not have the best forwards in their respective league - even more so to have the richest club in the World not having a single one of the top 5 forwards in their respective league...
The mind baffles. But anyway, it needs to be fixed.
If you're the richest man in the World, you don't go into the car dealership and come out with a 'nice' Renault or Nissan, you come out revving a fecking Lambo!
It's genuinely odd for the richest club in the world to not have the best forwards in their respective league - even more so to have the richest club in the World not having a single one of the top 5 forwards in their respective league...
The mind baffles. But anyway, it needs to be fixed.
If you're the richest man in the World, you don't go into the car dealership and come out with a 'nice' Renault or Nissan, you come out revving a fecking Lambo!
Could a 4-4-2 diamond work?
Two strikers harassing centre backs, ideally mobile strikers like Morata and Belotti. Then a mobile 10 who can create, find space in front of the defence and behind the midfield, that player occupying any team playing with a DLP.
Midfield 3 with a DLP, Pogba on the LCM role, Herrera b2b, solid back 4.
Makes sense to me.
Two strikers harassing centre backs, ideally mobile strikers like Morata and Belotti. Then a mobile 10 who can create, find space in front of the defence and behind the midfield, that player occupying any team playing with a DLP.
Midfield 3 with a DLP, Pogba on the LCM role, Herrera b2b, solid back 4.
Makes sense to me.