Surely you can appreciate that's a little naive. The players simply aren't available. Sanchez won't be sold to us, not at any price, and the player we had earmarked to unlock defences (Griezmann) is now unavailable due to circumstances beyond our control. We can't just demand the best players because we think we're entitled to them; if a player doesn't want to come to us or a club doesn't want to sell (or both) then it doesn't matter how much we're willing to pay.
The Striker Situation & Addressing the Goal Scoring issue this Summer
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
think Mbappe and Aubameyang are just as big a risk as any of the names mentioned in your second list, think if we keep creating the chances we did last year then any the strikers on either list could easily bag 25-30 goals for the season, lets be honest we missed some amount of sitters last season, hopefully the likes of Mata, Miki, Martial can be a big more ruthless as well and could all easily add more goals to there games, add to that the amount of times Pogba hit the woordwork, an inch either way could easily have added another 5-10 goals.
I don't think it matters who we bring in, we need to have a more even spread of goals throughout the squad. 3-4 Players hitting 15-20 goals a season will be a lot better than Zlatan scoring 28 and the nearest being someone with 8 league goals and that's it. No reason why Lingard/Martial/Pogba/Rashford/Miki/Mata can't score a few more goals at least this season when they play. Hopefully a new striker will score over 25 as well. 
two forwards, one midfield player & one attacking left back.
September 17
Fabinho
Herrera Pogba
Mkhitaryan Morata Martial/Perisic
January 18
Fabinho Pogba
Mkhitaryan Griezmann Perisic
Morata
I predict that January onwards we don't have any problems scoring goals. Until then I can see us having a few issues getting goals from our number 10s so I think Mourinho could start the season playing 433 until Griezmann signs.Fabinho
Herrera Pogba
Mkhitaryan Morata Martial/Perisic
January 18
Fabinho Pogba
Mkhitaryan Griezmann Perisic
Morata
I hope this happens, but I honestly think the ship has sailed permanently on Griezmann. Hope I'm wrong and you're right.
I actually disagree with your initial formation though; last season we were at our most potent in attack when Mikhi and Mata played together. I'd put Mikhi at 10 and Mata on the right where he can drift inside and let Valencia bomb down the right. Obviously that won't be practical for every game; I expect us to revert to a midfield 3 against tougher opponents.
Yeah I agree, if we were to start the season playing 4231 our best team would be:
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Lindelof Darmian/Mendy
Fabinho Pogba
Mata Mkhitaryan Martial/Perisic
Morata
Hopefully the signings happen now and in January and then we'll be a tough match for anyone.Valencia Bailly Lindelof Darmian/Mendy
Fabinho Pogba
Mata Mkhitaryan Martial/Perisic
Morata
That's stupid remark.
If your team is conceding a lot of goals, you sign a top goalie & quality defenders. As outfield player take 10 positions on the field & the goalie occupies one.
United Struggle in scoring goals so they need goal scorers. In the past when Utd were winning titles, the team was loaded with goal scorers. Its really not rocket science.
I suggest you go over to Wiki and check the top goal-scorers in the PL over it's history. The vast vast majority of teams winning the PL have one relatively high-scorer (18 to 25) and the next one is far lower (13-15) and you expect to have 3-4 hitting 15-20 ?! Dream onI don't think it matters who we bring in, we need to have a more even spread of goals throughout the squad. 3-4 Players hitting 15-20 goals a season will be a lot better than Zlatan scoring 28 and the nearest being someone with 8 league goals and that's it. No reason why Lingard/Martial/Pogba/Rashford/Miki/Mata can't score a few more goals at least this season when they play. Hopefully a new striker will score over 25 as well.
I suggest you go over to Wiki and check the top goal-scorers in the PL over it's history. The vast vast majority of teams winning the PL have one relatively high-scorer (18 to 25) and the next one is far lower (13-15) and you expect to have 3-4 hitting 15-20 ?! Dream on
Exactly. How many times players have scored more than 20 goals from same team?
Suarez and Sturridge
Drogba and Lampard (2009-10)
I checked till 2006-07, every season only 2-3 players scored most than 20 goals except 2009-10.
I feel confident that Mourinho will sort the defense and midfield into premium shape by the start of the season, but the attack will remain an uncertainty I feel. He's in a difficult position where every move he makes is filtered through the "What about Rashford?" question, and on top of that he has to try and work out what to with a very expensive youth buy who's nature doesn't really suit him.
This is why I will be more confident if we sign two attackers. I know signing both belotti and morata could be unreasonable and very expensive but then signing both will take the burden off each other. I know we all want rashford to develop but we cannot out all our eggs in one basket. Rashford is far from ready and he needs to be played gradually. I feel having 4 attackers of morata martial belotti and rashford will give us enough variety.
If belotti is too expensive , we can easily go for chicharito, proven in pl and knows manchester united . I feel he can give us a strong option from the bench and he can start games when needed. Jose has already praised Hernandez and said he wouldn't have sold him , so why can't he be an option.
If belotti is too expensive , we can easily go for chicharito, proven in pl and knows manchester united . I feel he can give us a strong option from the bench and he can start games when needed. Jose has already praised Hernandez and said he wouldn't have sold him , so why can't he be an option.
I suggest you go over to Wiki and check the top goal-scorers in the PL over it's history. The vast vast majority of teams winning the PL have one relatively high-scorer (18 to 25) and the next one is far lower (13-15) and you expect to have 3-4 hitting 15-20 ?! Dream on
Ok so maybe 10-15 may have been more realistic but theres no reason why the attacking players we have shouldn't be getting in to double figures at least. We were guilty of missing some absolute sitters last season and pretty much every one of our team should have scored a lot more. Not including Pogba hitting the post every 5 minutes even Ibra who was by far and away our top score missed some glorious chances. Hopefully Miki will be more consistent in front of goal and Martial will rediscover his shooting boots and form.
And that's before taking in to account that we should be signing another main striker and left winger. And if we do sign Morata/Belotti/whoever you would really really hope they would have at least 20 goals in them. If we sign both then you would hope that both score 20+ and still expect the likes of Pogba/Miki to be chipping in with double figures.
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Lalaland.
That's a false analogy, because there are plenty of Lambo's available if you have the cash, but there aren't plenty of top strikers available regardless of how much money you offer .... either because the players don't want to leave where they are and/or because they don't want to come to United and/or because their clubs just won't sell.
Yeah because its totally unreasonable to expect top class strikers to score 20 goals a season and our attacking players to score at least 10 seriously? Whatever.
Listen to yourself :
Hope Myki will score more
Hope Martial will discover his scoring boots
Hope we don't hit the post / miss as much (because it's not like all teams don't do that)
Hope our attacking players can each get to double figures
Hope our new striker(s) can get 20+ goals each (maybe over 25), in their first season in the PL
As I said before .. check Wiki and have a look at the scoring lists in the PL. It's enlightening.
You hope that your attacking players can all get even 10-15 with the one or two strikers getting 20+ ? So at least Myki, Martial, Perisic (if it happens) and Pogba in double figures ? Maybe also Rashford ? To say nothing of you thinking that your one or two new strikers will each hit 20+ each ? That alone (two strikers over 20 goals) has happened like only 3-4 times in the history of the PL ... and without all the other attackers being in double figures too.
Added to which United are coming off a season where scoring has been a major issue, yet all of a sudden you're going to start scoring for fun (which is what would need to happen to reach your targets) and let's not forget Mourinho's pragmatic tactical approach doesn't exactly encourage free-flowing football.
Of course that's what's going to happen, why would anyone doubt you
I'm hoping that 0803 refers to your month and year of birth. That would explain a lot and I could then easily forgive your misguided enthusiasm and optimism Play Rashford up top every game and he will get 15-20 goals in my opinion.
I doubt Mkhitaryan and Perišić could get 20 league goals between them. We're in trouble if Morata and Perišić are our only attacking signings.
It's a bit ridiculous to think that Mbappe would be better or provide more goals than Morata or Belotti and that he would come with a lesser element of risk than the other 2. Mbappe is an 18 year old who until last January wasn't even mentioned anywhere. A couple of good champions league performances has somehow created this media bandwagon which labeled him as some kind of a next coming of Ronaldo. 140m euros.
Sanchez + Morata would be perfect.
We obviously need some better players in the forward positions, although I feel the way Utd attack needs to be looked at too. To many times, our build up play became tediously slow. Players either lingering on the ball too long or turning back when there was acres of space in front of them.
The amount of players that Utd attack with was frustrating , 1-2 players in the box at most.. very rarely a run in from midfield or the wide areas.
Goal threats not in a position to score..
I always laughed when the ball was crossed in with Just Mhiki or Mata in the box vs half a dozen players while Zlatan had dropped deep or Fellani was on the wing..
Or during counter attacks it was mainly slowed down and a case of letting the opponents get set up.
It's significantly easier to defend a cross or an attack when you are waiting for that attack rather than running back to stop the attack / cross.
Being completely and overly reliant on valencia for any attacking threat..
I think this is a big one, the amount of times you could predict exactly what we would do in an attacking sense and it would usually involve Valencia.
Win the ball back - slowly pass the ball forward - opposing team is currently having a fecking cuppa while our players are strolling up the field.
Pass the ball to the wing, winger hogs it for 5 seconds then passes it back - slowly pass to the other wing. Repeat until lose ball or cross into box where 1 player is waiting.
Valencia was a beast last season but even he was frustrating, at times he'd pass the ball back or slow the game down for 10 seconds instead of crossing it first time or taking his man on.
Some of our attacking play was very very poor.
With better quality in forward positions, I think Utd would of scored 10 or so more goals but I don't think players alone is going to turn us into anything like Monaco last season (that is what I want to watch, the Utd where it wasn't a case of whether they'll score it's a case of when and only conceding 2 or 3 goals against a Utd team was considered good. . )
Making teams shit themselves every time Utd got the ball.
TLDR - New players are most certainly needed but our entire system could do with a revamp as the way Utd attack Isn't very effective.
Something to think on, over the last few seasons why have mid table teams kept up in goal tally with Utd? Do they have a similar quality of attack?
We obviously need some better players in the forward positions, although I feel the way Utd attack needs to be looked at too. To many times, our build up play became tediously slow. Players either lingering on the ball too long or turning back when there was acres of space in front of them.
The amount of players that Utd attack with was frustrating , 1-2 players in the box at most.. very rarely a run in from midfield or the wide areas.
Goal threats not in a position to score..
I always laughed when the ball was crossed in with Just Mhiki or Mata in the box vs half a dozen players while Zlatan had dropped deep or Fellani was on the wing..
Or during counter attacks it was mainly slowed down and a case of letting the opponents get set up.
It's significantly easier to defend a cross or an attack when you are waiting for that attack rather than running back to stop the attack / cross.
Being completely and overly reliant on valencia for any attacking threat..
I think this is a big one, the amount of times you could predict exactly what we would do in an attacking sense and it would usually involve Valencia.
Win the ball back - slowly pass the ball forward - opposing team is currently having a fecking cuppa while our players are strolling up the field.
Pass the ball to the wing, winger hogs it for 5 seconds then passes it back - slowly pass to the other wing. Repeat until lose ball or cross into box where 1 player is waiting.
Valencia was a beast last season but even he was frustrating, at times he'd pass the ball back or slow the game down for 10 seconds instead of crossing it first time or taking his man on.
Some of our attacking play was very very poor.
With better quality in forward positions, I think Utd would of scored 10 or so more goals but I don't think players alone is going to turn us into anything like Monaco last season (that is what I want to watch, the Utd where it wasn't a case of whether they'll score it's a case of when and only conceding 2 or 3 goals against a Utd team was considered good. . )
Making teams shit themselves every time Utd got the ball.
TLDR - New players are most certainly needed but our entire system could do with a revamp as the way Utd attack Isn't very effective.
Something to think on, over the last few seasons why have mid table teams kept up in goal tally with Utd? Do they have a similar quality of attack?
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Clearly not enough, if the other players don't score much more.
Of course, that's why I think we're trying to get both Morata and Belotti.
Very Sensible OP. However I think it should be more fair on Mourinho - He is not the one doing the transfer-deals and ultimately what we need is the huge players to win the title - ultimately that is Woodward's responsibility. Only in the case that we aim really low, is it Jose's fault. I doubt Jose doesn't want Mbappé, Bale, etc.
If the results are below expectations, it can be because we haven't got the right material or because Mourinho hasn't managed the players correctly. But the person responsible for big players is Ed Woodward. You simply cannot win anything big without 1 or 2 world class performers in the squad. Costa/Hazard, Mahrez/Vardy, Silva/Aguero, Lampard/Drogba, Van Persie, Rooney.
Right now we have none - and we certainly don't seem to get any with that level of performance^ this summer.
If the results are below expectations, it can be because we haven't got the right material or because Mourinho hasn't managed the players correctly. But the person responsible for big players is Ed Woodward. You simply cannot win anything big without 1 or 2 world class performers in the squad. Costa/Hazard, Mahrez/Vardy, Silva/Aguero, Lampard/Drogba, Van Persie, Rooney.
Right now we have none - and we certainly don't seem to get any with that level of performance^ this summer.
I don't think we can blame it on Woodward or Jose - the problem lies in that there is no world class performers that we can buy. We wanted Griezmann, till the CAS decision blocked it. Who else is there we can get who is world-class? Bale for 100m, who is injury-prone and reliant on pace while hitting 30 in a couple of years? Mbappe, who seems to only want to stay at Monaco or go to Madrid? There really is a lack of world class footballers available to choose from. So most of our shopping will come from the next tier - good/great footballers who are at an age where they might develop into world class - Morata, Lindelof, Fabinho, Belotti - names that we have been linked with who are all below 25 and have room to develop even further.
Jose likes his no.10 to be able to score goals, and I think that is really what is missing. Hence our preference for Griezmann to take up that role. If the reports of him signing a new contract but not raising the release clause are true, then there is a chance that he might join us next summer, or even in January, cup-tied though he may be. If we get someone like James together with Morata this window, then I think it will be end of our Griezmann interest.
Yeah you're probably right. Its a good mixture of what is available and what Woody brings home. I guess we can only tell which big players were available when the transferwindow has closed. For instance if Sanchez goes to City, then Id say its a bit on Ed. Aubameyang to PSG too. Clubs we can compete with.
And I totally agree on no 10. I think we will wait for our broken love that is Griezmann.
I don't think Jose fancies Auba, even if he is available. I think he would rather spend the money on Belotti if we wanted a striker to go with Morata, since Auba does not put in enough of a defensive shift for Jose I think. Getting another striker like Belotti will take no.9, while Morata takes no.7 and plays nominally on the right of a 433. Will mean the end of Griezmann though. Valencia will take up the entire right touchline anyway, and Herrera should push up from right midfield (assuming we get Fabinho as DM), allowing Morata to get into the box, take shots from outside the area or hold up/link up play in areas where there is space. Basically means Morata will take on the role we wanted Griezmann to play orginally.
As for Sanchez, yeah, if he goes to City without any competition from us, that would be strange. Just can't see Arsenal selling to a PL rival though - RvP was a big lesson for them. (thanks for title no.20 Arsene!)
Seriously ? You have 3 I can think of right off the bat and one of them has been your saving grace for 3 of the past 4 seasons : Pogba, Ibra and De Gea. That Pogba-Ibra duo contributed to Ibra only failing to challenge Kane as leading goal-scorer due to his injury. You now need to replace Ibra but I'm crying crocodile tears for your 'lack of world class players'. And according to half of RC both Martial and Rashford will soon be world class too
It's almost like you've never actually watched him play
Why do people write this shit ?I think this is a view in hindsight. Mahrez\Vardy for example were never seen to be world class before the season started. And last season was no different, you could say City had the players, as did Chelsea, Spurs and United. Zlatan, Martial and Mhiki wasn't worse than Hazard, Costa and Pedro on paper before the season started. It's not so easy as to buy players significantly better than the other top teams, and just like last season it's about getting the players to perform.
I don't think your squad was too bad to win the league last season, nor do I think they will be this season.
Seriously ? You have 3 I can think of right off the bat and one of them has been your saving grace for 3 of the past 4 seasons : Pogba, Ibra and De Gea. That Pogba-Ibra duo contributed to Ibra only failing to challenge Kane as leading goal-scorer due to his injury. You now need to replace Ibra but I'm crying crocodile tears for your 'lack of world class players'. And according to half of RC both Martial and Rashford will soon be world class too
Even you know that De Gea and Pogba wont get us from 54 goals to 83 goals (the average of a PL-winning side over the last 5 years) - The point was obviously that a PL-winning side needs 1 or two attacking performers for a whole season. No one can truly say that Rashford and Martial is at that level at all, and I'm sure even 50% in here doesn't think so neither. I'm sure you're also aware of Ibra's many missed chances and convertion-rate which was low. P.s. there's bits of chicken stuck in your spacebar.
It's almost like you've never actually watched him play
From what I have seen, Auba does press the defenders and GK, but nothing out of the ordinary. Don't feel he is the best at holding on to the ball with back to goal, which is something that Jose seems to like to have in his strikers. We do have our own "speed merchant" striker in Rashford and even Martial who may one day be even better than Auba. Auba is a great striker presently, but I just don't see him as the kind of player that Jose will want to lead the line.
Haha - taking pot shots at Ibra now to excuse yourself. 0.61 goals per game (that's immense), 55% of shots on target (far, far above average) .... and that's from an average of only 4 shots per game. Do your research before making outrageous claims.
Let's review what you said " You simply cannot win anything big without 1 or 2 world class performers in the squad AND Right now we have none" such bullshit. Let's see what excuses you can come up with for Pogba.
It sure is a view in hindsight. I prefer to call it analysis of what it takes though. It basically just shows that a team winning the PL simply cannot do without 1-2 world-class performers in attack. I'm not saying Vardy or Mahrez are world-class - im saying their performances last year was.
I can't remember any premier league side with say 3 players scoring 10-15 goals each winning the league. The closest I can think of is 2010/11 with Berbatov: 20, Chicharito: 13, Rooney: 11.
Right now United are not close to that. There's a huge gap we need to bridge with scoring goals.
Calm down sir, you're embarrasing yourself. We are in the thread that is called "The striker situation - adressing the goal scoring issue this summer". Clearly we're not talking about De gea and Pogba.
And I love your cockiness - how about looking at the relevant stats to my statement - key chances missed: This is from when Zlatan had 15 goals (ended on 17). So this is taking a pot shot at Ibra? He's missed 17 key chances!
No way will we buy 2 out and out strikers that cost around 150m together
Roughly our strikers will need to get 25-30 league goals between them, our wide men another 30 between them all. Then we'll need the midfield to get 10 and our defenders say 5.
Morata and Rashford should be enough to do their job. Its our wide men that i have no confidence in tbh, both Martial and Mkhi need to start showing why we spent that money. If they show form we're fine.
Morata and Rashford should be enough to do their job. Its our wide men that i have no confidence in tbh, both Martial and Mkhi need to start showing why we spent that money. If they show form we're fine.
Key Chances depends on how they are assessed, not everyone would agree on what constitutes a key chance ...... and the reason he gets those chances in the first place is because he has the instinct to be there, which many strikers do not. Regardless: 4 shots per game, 55% on target and 0.61 goals per game are the only relevant details unless you are trying to deliberately find a way to belittle his performances, which in general were awesome .... and this from a Liverpool fan.Calm down sir, you're embarrasing yourself. We are in the thread that is called "The striker situation - adressing the goal scoring issue this summer". Clearly we're not talking about De gea and Pogba.
And I love your cockiness - how about looking at the relevant stats to my statement - key chances missed: This is from when Zlatan had 15 goals (ended on 17). So this is taking a pot shot at Ibra? He's missed 17 key chances!
As for your other comment trying to exclude Pogba - you named 5 successful pairings, 2 of which are very similar indeed to Pogba+Ibra (Eriksen+Kane and Silva+Aguero) so yes, Pogba is very relevant to this debate and yes clearly we are (or you should be) talking about him.
N.B. Silva 4 goals last season, Pogba 5 goals, Eriksen 8 goals.
N.B. 2 : and you are still asserting you had no world class players
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I think you'll find many in here who would agree that Zlatan's season was great compared to the fact he was old and to be honest what an achievement - and almost anyone in here would say he missed so many big chances too. We could have won at Anfield for instance. I would say 4-5 games at least we could have won if he hadnt missed those really big ones.
To pick out missed chances is really to miss the big picture, big time. Every striker in the league has missed big chances at key times. Almost every team can also say had their striker(s) not missed big chances they would be 10 pts or more better off. However the fact is that every striker misses far more than they score.