The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[BigDub]

I would imagine it would be what happened vs Everton and we would use one defensive midfielder instead of two so either Wanyama or Dier would drop to the bench. The perhaps Eriksen or Alli moves back into midfield.

Agreed. Thought it was interesting that it was Dier who was brought off over Wanyama. Perhaps a fitness thing given he played in the Euros over the summer and Victor had a more complete pre-season?

 

[balaks]

Agreed. Thought it was interesting that it was Dier who was brought off over Wanyama. Perhaps a fitness thing given he played in the Euros over the summer and Victor had a more complete pre-season?

I'd say that was the reason yeah - Dier I would imagine will be first choice with Wanyama as his back-up but as you say, Dier played in the Euros and Poch I'm sure wants Wanyama to get more time to get used to playing in the team so you might see Dier being subbed often in the first month if Poch decides to use Janssen a lot (which I think he will)

 

[BigDub]

Yeah he wasn't great, moving him around may not be the best idea until he rediscovers his form

Also a good point and something to consider. I guess it's also possible Janssen could start ahead of Dele, with Kane dropping a bit deeper. Though as @balaks mentioned it would be a slight surprise for Poch to make a move like that after just one game.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Give it a rest.

You are by a distance the most insecure poster on this forum, constantly seeking validation from United fans on a United forum about the prospects of your team.

As if United fans are happier seeing the likes of City and Chelsea in the top four than a team like Leicester (I'm not including Spurs because no club has spent as much in the PL era for so little return). During that time, you've very much been an elite level club in terms of spending, without the elite level success. Crying poverty now the purse is empty is pathetic.

Seeing as Spurs have finished above United in 2 of the last 3 seasons, your claim lacks credibility.

It would be more true to say that some United fans are seeking reassurance that they can still mix it with the big boys, despite having dropped down into the EL. Hence their celebrating a world record fee for Pogba (as if paying so much money was something to be proud of), their constant references to club income and the obsession with signing big name players like di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovich and so on.

As for the rest, Spurs net spend during the Prem era is barely above Sunderland's, and this despite the fact that Spurs have been in the Prem the entire time whilst Sunderland have not.

Nor am I "crying poverty" ... in fact I'm very happy that the club is investing its money in a new stadium complex, in further development of our training centre, and in youth development.

 

[AR87]

I like Spurs' starting XI but I think they need to add another box-to-box type CM, CB and RB to manage to get top-4 this season. I guess they could get top-4 again if they have a similarly amazing injury record this season, but with the added CL matches they'll be even more knackered than they were at the end of last season when they seemed to run out of gas.

 

[BigDub]

I like Spurs' starting XI but I think they need to add another box-to-box type CM, CB and RB to manage to get top-4 this season. I guess they could get top-4 again if they have a similarly amazing injury record this season, but with the added CL matches they'll be even more knackered than they were at the end of last season when they seemed to run out of gas.

Agree about needing another CM. Ideally a Dembele-type player to pair with Wanyama, assuming Dier and Dembele remain first choice. RB, though, not so much. Walker has steadily improved and had a great season last year and Trippier is a capable backup. We also have Yedlin who really got better on loan at Sunderland last season and had a good preseason as well. CB is arguable. Alderweireld and Vertonghen were consistent last season, both in terms of quality and appearances. Went Jan did go down Wimmer stepped up and played well. Dier can also drop back and play there in a pinch and it looks like Poch is going to give the youngster Cameron Carter-Vickers a chance in the domestic cups.

I'd like to see us add another winger and/or creative player to provide some further depth and competition. Signing N'koudou still seems possible. If we could make a bigger signing in that position that really improves the first 11 it would be ideal in terms of the fight for top 4 and beyond, but I don't see that happening.

 

[Ruffian]

It would be more true to say that some United fans are seeking reassurance that they can still mix it with the big boys, despite having dropped down into the EL.

I don't see any of that. Only frustration that they have been so poorly managed in recent years. Spurs fans, on the other hand, seem riddled with insecurity and desperate for recognition.

Who are the big boys? Please list them so I am clear. In terms of financial strength it is ludicrous to suggest Man Utd are not at the elite level.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

I like Spurs' starting XI but I think they need to add another box-to-box type CM, CB and RB to manage to get top-4 this season. I guess they could get top-4 again if they have a similarly amazing injury record this season, but with the added CL matches they'll be even more knackered than they were at the end of last season when they seemed to run out of gas.

I agree with BigDub, a Right back is not needed neither is a centre back, those positions are well covered. A Dembele type in midfield is certainly needed though. CL matches are not "added", spurs have played EL or CL for many seasons now, in fact the CL has less games than the EL.

 

[AR87]

I agree with BigDub, a Right back is not needed neither is a centre back, those positions are well covered. A Dembele type in midfield is certainly needed though. CL matches are not "added", spurs have played EL or CL for many seasons now, in fact the CL has less games than the EL.

You cannot compare the intensity or quality of the group stages in CL to the EL. Those will take a greater toll out of you earlier in the season.

In fairness I forgot about Trippier and he's good backup. CB isn't a necessity but it would be a very helpful luxury.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Seeing as Spurs have finished above United in 2 of the last 3 seasons, your claim lacks credibility.

It would be more true to say that some United fans are seeking reassurance that they can still mix it with the big boys, despite having dropped down into the EL. Hence their celebrating a world record fee for Pogba (as if paying so much money was something to be proud of), their constant references to club income and the obsession with signing big name players like di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovich and so on.

As for the rest, Spurs net spend during the Prem era is barely above Sunderland's, and this despite the fact that Spurs have been in the Prem the entire time whilst Sunderland have not.

Nor am I "crying poverty" ... in fact I'm very happy that the club is investing its money in a new stadium complex, in further development of our training centre, and in youth development.

Spurs finishing just 3 points ahead of United last season whilst United won a major trophy hardly means you're any more secure, especially given what's happened since. And as for Spurs finishing ahead of Moyes 3 years ago, the fact you'd cling to that as some sort of boast is fairly embarrassing. Moyes ffs. Come on Glaston, have some self-respect.

The only person here who cares about Pogba's fee seems to be you. United fans don't care. It's our money which we've earned and which we're capable of spending. We've signed a world class player capable of midfield masterclasses like tonight (which you probably watched through gritted teeth given your bizarre statements about him this summer).

Spurs have spent almost £700m in the Premier League era, for two League Cups. There's nowhere to hide on that one. Only four clubs have a higher outlay. You can't deny there's been terrible wastage.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Spurs finishing just 3 points ahead of United last season whilst United won a major trophy hardly means you're any more secure, especially given what's happened since. And as for Spurs finishing ahead of Moyes 3 years ago, the fact you'd cling to that as some sort of boast is fairly embarrassing. Moyes ffs. Come on Glaston, have some self-respect.

The only person here who cares about Pogba's fee seems to be you. United fans don't care. It's our money which we've earned and which we're capable of spending. We've signed a world class player capable of midfield masterclasses like tonight (which you probably watched through gritted teeth given your bizarre statements about him this summer).

Spurs have spent almost £700m in the Premier League era, for two League Cups. There's nowhere to hide on that one. Only four clubs have a higher outlay. You can't deny there's been terrible wastage.

Actually it was 4 points, but anyway, there are two sides to a balance sheet and "outlay" = purchases minus sales which is nowhere near 700 million. If for example a club buys players for 100 million and sells players for 50 million, the value on the pitch has only increased by 50 million, not 100 million.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Actually it was 4 points, but anyway, there are two sides to a balance sheet and "outlay" = purchases minus sales which is nowhere near 700 million. If for example a club buys players for 100 million and sells players for 50 million, the value on the pitch has only increased by 50 million, not 100 million.

3 points, 4 points, whatever, I doubt that extra point make you feel any more secure. It's a reversal of one weekend of results.

Outlay is what you spend on transfer fees. You have spent 700m on transfer fees for two league cups. That is money you've put onto the pitch in an attempt to win trophies. Well spent?

 

[TheReligion]

The Pogba haters look a bit. .. er daft

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

3 points, 4 points, whatever, I doubt that extra point make you feel any more secure. It's a reversal of one weekend of results.

Outlay is what you spend on transfer fees. You have spent 700m on transfer fees for two league cups. That is money you've put onto the pitch in an attempt to win trophies. Well spent?

FFS, the value on the pitch is purchases minus sales. How the hell can you say the money spent is the value put on the pitch without subtracting the value of the players sold? The players sold are no longer there, their value is no longer on the pitch. Jesus that's basic common sense arithmetic.

 

[Kraftwerker]

FFS, the value on the pitch is purchases minus sales. How the hell can you say the money spent is the value put on the pitch without subtracting the value of the players sold? The players sold are no longer there, their value is no longer on the pitch. Jesus that's basic common sense arithmetic.

Ok, so focusing solely on the 700m spent, do you feel Spurs 1992-present have done well with that?

 

[Sweech]

Ok, so focusing solely on the 700m spent, do you feel Spurs 1992-present have done well with that?

I think Vicar's point is that looking at something like that in a vacuum does no good at all.

We used to lose our best players and then had to re-invest and rebuild constantly. The money spent was money earned, it wasn't just a steady outlay in an attempt to improve a squad - It was earned money in an attempt to rebuild one.

We've finally got a squad that looks good and is staying together. I think it's fair to say we have reason(s) for optimism.

 

[Kraftwerker]

I think Vicar's point is that looking at something like that in a vacuum does no good at all.

We used to lose our best players and then had to re-invest and rebuild constantly. The money spent was money earned, it wasn't just a steady outlay in an attempt to improve a squad - It was earned money in an attempt to rebuild one.

We've finally got a squad that looks good and is staying together. I think it's fair to say we have reason(s) for optimism.

Not really, it's absolutely fine to look at only the players you've brought in. After all, players leaving has often been out of your control, but the players you bring in has always been firmly in your control. We can accept players have had to be sold, fine, we accept that. Now we look at all the players signed and money spent.

And it's this aspect where I feel Spurs have wasted a considerable amount of cash for very little reward. I mean wasting money is a fact of football, every major club has done it to some degree. But it's been part of an ongoing search for success or a means to an end, crucially with major trophies often following. This is where Spurs have failed. And until the current side actually win something it will be the same.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Not really, it's absolutely fine to look at only the players you've brought in. After all, players leaving has often been out of your control, but the players you bring in has always been firmly in your control. We can accept players have had to be sold, fine, we accept that. Now we look at all the players signed and money spent.

And it's this aspect where I feel Spurs have wasted a considerable amount of cash for very little reward. I mean wasting money is a fact of football, every major club has done it to some degree. But it's been part of an ongoing search for success or a means to an end, crucially with major trophies often following. This is where Spurs have failed. And until the current side actually win something it will be the same.

You're just not getting it are you? How can a team win trophies when they keep losing their best players? You have to spend money to replace them but the replacements are never the same quality as the player that was sold. Two years ago Southampton were gutted of most of their best players, Man Utd bought two of them. Liverpool bought two or three, so Southampton had to spend a shedload of cash to replace those players. According to your theory, Southampton should have won the league, or at least one trophy the following year, simply because they spent a load of cash, but ignoring the value of the players they sold. It just doesn't work as you are suggesting.

 

[Kraftwerker]

You're just not getting it are you? How can a team win trophies when they keep losing their best players? You have to spend money to replace them but the replacements are never the same quality as the player that was sold. Two years ago Southampton were gutted of most of their best players, Man Utd bought two of them. Liverpool bought two or three, so Southampton had to spend a shedload of cash to replace those players. According to your theory, Southampton should have won the league, or at least one trophy the following year, simply because they spent a load of cash, but ignoring the value of the players they sold. It just doesn't work as you are suggesting.

But Southampton have spent nothing close to 700m on transfers in.

All I'm saying is that if you accept players have had to be sold which was outside your control, and look at transfers in which was absolutely inside your control, then Spurs have done a pretty poor job 1992-present, hence the lack any notable silverware. I'm not even talking about winning the league. Even an FA Cup or a lesser European trophy would be something worthwhile.

You can dispute this but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my view.

 

[Sweech]

But Southampton have spent nothing close to 700m on transfers in.

All I'm saying is that if you accept players have had to be sold which was outside your control, and look at transfers in which was absolutely inside your control, then Spurs have done a pretty poor job 1992-present, hence the lack any notable silverware. I'm not even talking about winning the league. Even an FA Cup or a lesser European trophy would be something worthwhile.

You can dispute this but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my view.

You're taking a complex thing (transfers), looking at it in a vacuum (transfers in only), stretching it across a massive amount of time in sport (24 years) which is longer than a few careers as a whole laid back to back, and comparing it directly to something non analogous (trophies).

Using your theory:
Portsmouth & Wigan Athletic are better at buying players than Spurs.

Except I'd argue that's not true. We've built a very strong squad through player trading and youth development. Portsmouth and Wigan aren't even in the same league.

 

[Varun]

I would actually like to read about Spurs and how they're actually doing on here but it's impossible because of this same bullshit that gets discussed over and over again. How hard is it to not care so much about a topic that's already been debated to death and actually stick to how their season progresses?

 

[Kraftwerker]

You're taking a complex thing (transfers), looking at it in a vacuum (transfers in only), stretching it across a massive amount of time in sport (24 years) which is longer than a few careers as a whole laid back to back, and comparing it directly to something non analogous (trophies).

Using your theory:
Portsmouth & Wigan Athletic are better at buying players than Spurs.

Except I'd argue that's not true. We've built a very strong squad through player trading and youth development. Portsmouth and Wigan aren't even in the same league.

My last reply on the matter.

Dragging Portsmouth and Wigan into the debate, much like Southampton, is a misnomer. You can't compare their level of spending to Spurs.

But it's hardly a point in your favour that despite those clubs being run diabolically (Portsmouth and Wigan), they have their names on a major trophy, and Spurs do not. History doesn't remember the losers. And until this current side wins something notable, no one will remember them either.

I don't see what's the issue with analysing the poor transfers in. You had direct control over that side of things. I've already accepted you were forced into selling players at times, so I'm not analysing it in a vacuum.

But can see we won't agree here.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Question is what they could've realistically won, though. Cups are a bit random. You can't say that spending X million and not winning cups necessarily amounts to abject failure.

Some might say that what they've spent is largely in line with where they've ended up in the table over the relevant period of time: Top four-ish but never a proper contender. If they had bagged a couple of league titles with that spend, it would have been a huge and very surprising success (given the nature of the competition).

What happened last season was arguably that Spurs failed to exploit what was pretty much a shambles: It wasn't a case of them failing miserably to turn their huge spend into a league title (that criticism is far more fitting if you direct it at United, City or Chelsea).

Spurs' main target: Top 4 (not domestic cups – those are bonuses, obviously, not something you target specifically).

Spurs' main competition: Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool (all of whom have greater resources and more pull in the transfer market). In addition to that come outliers like Leicester or whoever has a great season.

That's the context (over the last few seasons). So, it's with that in mind you have to judge 'em, and consider whether they've wasted money or not.

 

[balaks]

Alli dropped to the bench today, I think thats the right move as he needs a break and Janssen looked very bright last week.

 

[BigDub]

Alli dropped to the bench today, I think thats the right move as he needs a break and Janssen looked very bright last week.

Agreed. Thought his performance against Everton was poor. Happy to see Poch willing to give Janssen and Harry a start together.

 

[NK86]

Alli dropped to the bench today, I think thats the right move as he needs a break and Janssen looked very bright last week.

Is Janssen a second striker or will Spurs play 4-4-2 today?

 

[BigDub]

Is Janssen a second striker or will Spurs play 4-4-2 today?

4-4-2 would be my guess, or Kane slightly behind

 

[Sweech]

Is Janssen a second striker or will Spurs play 4-4-2 today?

It looks like Kane will drop into a pseudo number 10/striker role while Janssen will go up top.

 

[NK86]

4-4-2 would be my guess, or Kane slightly behind

Cheers. Kane, imo, is better as the lead. I do think he has a very good all round game but feel he will be wasted further away from goal.

 

[BigDub]

Cheers. Kane, imo, is better as the lead. I do think he has a very good all round game but feel he will be wasted further away from goal.

I tend to agree, which is why I'm hoping to see a bit more of a traditional 4-4-2. Janssen to me is definitely an out-and-out striker. His hold up play is what impressed me most against Everton. No reason to waste that by pushing him any further back.

 

[Sweech]

I'm interested to see if Lamela is put on the left or right. When we threw on Janssen against Everton Lamela shifted to the left and while he's not an orthodox winger he looked good in the role and scored a goal and nearly had another if not for a great stop from Stekelenburg.

 

[Boycott]

My opinion on Lamela has drastically changed in the last year. He was to be frank a pansy before Poch got his hands on him. Now he's a critical part of the team. Stronger, more smarter. Has natural balance and ball control but now he picks out good passes and is a terrier.

Just needs to become more prolific in front of goal.

 

[skidmark]

Yeah that's fair enough. IF people go you should get a lot of money from it, that's if loads go though.

There have been a few games played in London already, at Wembley I think. I tried to get tickets a while back but they'd sold out quickly.

 

[BigDub]

Janssen was brilliant for us against Palace. Really liking the impact he is making so far. Flubbed a good chance in the second, yes, but his overall play was fantastic. Holding the ball up, bringing others into the play, relentless work rate in the press. Definitely warranted his start.

 

[balaks]

Janssen was brilliant for us against Palace. Really liking the impact he is making so far. Flubbed a good chance in the second, yes, but his overall play was fantastic. Holding the ball up, bringing others into the play, relentless work rate in the press. Definitely warranted his start.

He does look well suited to the Premiership and should be a great player for us - just hope he gets a goal soon as he has had 2 excellent chances to score so far and has fluffed his lines. Let's not have another Soldado situation!.

We have not really got playing anywhere near the level we hit last season but at least we have points on the board and have had a better start than last season in that sense. Next up Liverpool and it will depend on which Liverpool turn up on the day.

 

[Dumbstar]

He does look well suited to the Premiership and should be a great player for us - just hope he gets a goal soon as he has had 2 excellent chances to score so far and has fluffed his lines. Let's not have another Soldado situation!.

We have not really got playing anywhere near the level we hit last season but at least we have points on the board and have had a better start than last season in that sense. Next up Liverpool and it will depend on which Liverpool turn up on the day.

What Liverpool turns up depends on how you turn out. Play open football and we've got you. Play like Burnley and you'll do us 3-0.

So it's not us, it's you.

 

[Sunny Jim]

In the last 7 seasons Spurs always totaled between 64-70 points. They only get to to top four if one of the big clubs fail miserably. I don't expect them to a serious threat to our season.

 

[GlastonSpur]

In the last 7 seasons Spurs always totaled between 64-70 points. They only get to to top four if one of the big clubs fail miserably. I don't expect them to a serious threat to our season.

The accurate figures are between 62 and 72 points, with the average being 68.

 

[Klopper76]

What Liverpool turns up depends on how you turn out. Play open football and we've got you. Play like Burnley and you'll do us 3-0.

So it's not us, it's you.

Agreed. We're not hard to figure out. It all depends on how Spurs set up on the day.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

He does look well suited to the Premiership and should be a great player for us - just hope he gets a goal soon as he has had 2 excellent chances to score so far and has fluffed his lines. Let's not have another Soldado situation!.

We have not really got playing anywhere near the level we hit last season but at least we have points on the board and have had a better start than last season in that sense. Next up Liverpool and it will depend on which Liverpool turn up on the day.

I don't agree that he fluffed the one against Everton. He was off balance for that shot and even then it took a world class save from the keeper to keep it out. Definitely fluffed it against Palace though.