The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[AkaAkuma]

On the contrary, I've engaged several times in this thread with other Spurs fans. And we don't end up having furious arguments.

As I've already said, I originally replied to a post from Twigginater, essentially agreeing with and expanding upon the sentiment he expressed. At which point I was bombarded with furious posts from every direction from other United fans, outraged that Pogba was not being rated highly enough to suit his apparent "world class" status.

Now, I could choose to ignore all these butting-in posts, in which case I get accused of ignoring arguments to which I have (it would be claimed) no answer. Or I can reply to them (it being after all a discussion forum), in which case I get accused of "de-railing" threads or only being interested in "tit for tat".

Either way, the dominant narrative seeks to cast me as the villain. But in truth, it's simply that some posters don't like hearing opinions contrary to the herd view and so get rather nasty or tricksy about it. I've seen in the Pogba thread how when any United fan dares to question the gung-ho rush, even mildly, they get ganged up on and shouted down. So when a Spurs fan like me offers criticism of Pogba and this proposed deal, they obviously like it even less.

And they like it even less than that when they realise that I won't be shouted down or bullied out of expressing my views.

I understand some of what your saying, In the past Ive liked reading what you have to say, but eventually I came to the conclusion that you enjoy the arguments, and do like to play the WUM. How many times have you banged on about the Pogba fee?

Its up to you if you want to make this thread a bloated argument, you could just ignore certain posts. There are probably quite a few spurs posters lurking but don't want to step into here, hence the guy asking to change this thread to 'argue with glaston'.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Come on. If everyone that thought you behaved childishly put you on ignore your be posting on a ghost forum or on craigslist.

exactly.

 

[BigDub]

I think each of the 6-7 teams have a for and against regarding how its going to pan out for them. I think your negative might be the intensity you play and working rotation into it. Im not totally convinced you have the quality to compensate if an important player is out injured. You probably have enough to handle fatigue, but if Alli and Eriksen were out for a similar period Im not sure you could perform as well, fair point?

It seems you're implying that our depth still isn't where it needs to be, with Eriksen/Alli being out as a key example? If so, I think that's fair and that we could make another move or two to address it. I like both the Janssen and Wanyama signings and think we need at least one more addition on the wing. The Alli/Eriksen example you raise is an interesting one, and I think it partially hinges on Lamela's ability to take the next step. He can play centrally and I believe has the creativity and vision to play in a similar way that Eriksen does if called upon. He just needs to be more consistent with those aspects of his game. He made big strides last year and really began to show his quality. If he can continue that development I think it gives us a lot more flexibility when mixing and matching lineups for the various competitions we're in. Still, maybe we could still use another quality creative playmaker. Though I think any team would say the same. They're not exactly easy to come by.

 

[KingMinger22]

Wow ... a whole 0.38 rating more than Lucas Biglia (for example). That would make him 5.1% better than Biglia if my maths serve me well.

So, since you're so into Pogba-justifying stats, does that make Biglia 94.9% world class, or worth 94.9% of £100m? I guess it must.

Meanhile, back in the world of football as played not on paper, but on actual football pitches ...

I can't grasp why a fan of another team would post on a United forum.

It's bizzare.

 

[baanke laal]

It seems you're implying that our depth still isn't where it needs to be, with Eriksen/Alli being out as a key example?

IMO, losing Kane or Dembele for a stretch due to injuries, could be even more detrimental to your team's ambitions next season. Especially in CL, no easy games in Europe & the nature of games in CL is relentless.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

It becomes contradictory in Pogba's case, when you combine the above stats with Pogba's offensive passing stats (posted earlier) & his goals and assists return. What else does he need to do to impose himself on a game & show sheer drive or determination like Dele Alli for example?

It might be just a perception thing with the Alli comparison. Alli's shorter, lighter, a bit quicker off the mark and more prone to a flaring temper / ill-discipline. Those aspects visibly contribute to the illusion that someone cares more. I actually don't think it's in the natural game of Alli or Pogba to impose themselves on a game the way a natural playmaker will. In Pogba's case I believe he has the technique but not quite the mentality.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I understand some of what your saying, In the past Ive liked reading what you have to say, but eventually I came to the conclusion that you enjoy the arguments, and do like to play the WUM. How many times have you banged on about the Pogba fee?

Its up to you if you want to make this thread a bloated argument, you could just ignore certain posts. There are probably quite a few spurs posters lurking but don't want to step into here, hence the guy asking to change this thread to 'argue with glaston'.

Why is it just up to me? Why is it not also up to those United fans - and I've noticed that it's mostly the same small group, now with the addition of one or two relative newcomers - who are always looking for a fight, who tend to hunt in packs, and who apparently can't bear to hear views contrary to the herd without reacting by bombarding me with an absolute blizzard of posts?

I stepped out of the Pogba thread a fair while ago to avoid being further accused of "de-railing it" (i.e. expressing views not to the liking of the gung-ho-ers, despite that thread now being filled with - bloated if you like - spurious trivia much of the time). Am I now supposed to partially step out of this Spurs thread (i.e. ignore many of the posts addressed to me) for the same reason?

 

[BigDub]

IMO, losing Kane or Dembele for a stretch due to injuries, could be even more detrimental to your team's ambitions next season. Especially in CL, no easy games in Europe & the nature of games in CL is relentless.

Losing Kane would hurt. No doubt about that. But any team losing a 25 goal a season striker would. Few teams have another 25 goal striker on their bench ready to come in. I think Janssen is a promising player and I'm excited to see what he can do under Pochettino. Certainly an unknown quantity in the PL but I think the talent is there. Dembele is a fair point and I would agree that we don't have a ready made replacement. I think that's partly due to squad composition and partly due to the fact that he's such a unique player. His strength on the ball and ability to breeze past players with ease in the way he does is a hard quality to find. The issue is further amplified by his injury history...he's no stranger to missing matches through injury.

We aren't the perfect squad by any stretch. But I do think we stand a good chance at improving our overall play on last season, especially with the depth we've added. Need to fit in a couple more pieces, but I'm hopeful we can succeed on multiple fronts.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Why is it just up to me? Why is it not also up to those United fans - and I've noticed that it's mostly the same small group, now with the addition of one or two relative newcomers - who are always looking for a fight, who tend to hunt in packs, and who apparently can't bear to hear views contrary to the herd without reacting by bombarding me with an absolute blizzard of posts?

I stepped out of the Pogba thread a fair while ago to avoid being further accused of "de-railing it" (i.e. expressing views not to the liking of the gung-ho-ers, despite that thread now being filled with - bloated if you like - spurious trivia much of the time). Am I now supposed to partially step out of this Spurs thread (i.e. ignore many of the posts addressed to me) for the same reason?

Im not trying to mediate, just helping you out. If you ignore them they will eventually go away and you will have better discussions here.

 

[AkaAkuma]

It seems you're implying that our depth still isn't where it needs to be, with Eriksen/Alli being out as a key example? If so, I think that's fair and that we could make another move or two to address it. I like both the Janssen and Wanyama signings and think we need at least one more addition on the wing. The Alli/Eriksen example you raise is an interesting one, and I think it partially hinges on Lamela's ability to take the next step. He can play centrally and I believe has the creativity and vision to play in a similar way that Eriksen does if called upon. He just needs to be more consistent with those aspects of his game. He made big strides last year and really began to show his quality. If he can continue that development I think it gives us a lot more flexibility when mixing and matching lineups for the various competitions we're in. Still, maybe we could still use another quality creative playmaker. Though I think any team would say the same. They're not exactly easy to come by.

If Lamela does improve, I think its a few more seasons away from him being as affective as Eriksen is for you. Does that make sense? I don't see a giant leap for him, but I think he has it in him to be a consistent 8-10 goal a season PL player.

I think your squad is a couple of seasons away from having the experience of managing rotation, handling loss of match rhythm etc. Did you have many multiple injuries last season?

 

[kouroux]

So will United, Chelsea and City ... all the more so considering the money spent, and even more so for United since another season outside top 4 will mean a big loss of sponsor money. Why are they all going to cope with it and not Spurs?

I didn't said that did I ? Just that Spurs will be the club that struggles the most with it because of their inexperience and young squad.

No they haven't improved. They bought players. Those two things are not the same, whether the new players improve the team performances remains to be seen. However, assuming those new players do improve performances, why do you ignore the fact that spurs have also bought players that will improve their performances? Rather one sided view you have.

United has instantly improved by Mourinho there and that is without taking into account the players and no I haven't forgotten that Spurs bought some too but in the end I see them as the teams with the least room for improvement in comparison for the others. I can understand not agreeing with this since you're Spurs fans but I find it funny how both of you manage to assume things from stuff I didn't even say.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Oh dear, glaston has taken an almighty pounding here

Shame, cuz the other Spurs fans seem decent enough to engage in a debate with, and are no where near as deluded, bitter and delusional.

 

[BigDub]

If Lamela does improve, I think its a few more seasons away from him being as affective as Eriksen is for you. Does that make sense? I don't see a giant leap for him, but I think he has it in him to be a consistent 8-10 goal a season PL player.

I think your squad is a couple of seasons away from having the experience of managing rotation, handling loss of match rhythm etc. Did you have many multiple injuries last season?

Eriksen has had a bigger impact than Lamela....definitely agree with that. He does have matches where he disappears a bit, though. Still, he is a vital player for us, easily one of the most important in the squad. Lamela was unlucky to suffer a bad injury his first season and his development was very much affected by that. It's been a slow process to be sure but, even if the stats didn't jump out in terms of goals/assists, he did play much better last season. Especially as the season wore on. He's been far and away our best player in pre-season. Hoping that's a sign of things to come this season.

Overall, we were lucky on the injury front. Especially up front. We didn't have another recognized striker in the squad and Kane was able to stay healthy all year. That said, Dembele missed games through injury and Vertonghen missed a long while as well. Wimmer stepped in admirably and we were still able to finish with the joint-best defensive record in the league. It was also important having capable backup fullbacks. Being able to rotate Walker and Rose with Trippier and Davies helped keep the entire group fit.

 

[jungledrums]

You mentioned it all in the first paragraph of the post, before namedropping the players (Comical Alli being one of them), which was called "crock of shit" by another poster here.
Are you delusional my friend? Or are you shifting the goalposts yet again when countered by real facts?

Glaston is the master of the straw man argument. He ignores a person's actual point of view and replaces it with some distorted version of that point of view, so that it becomes easier for him to argue against.

Example: In response to a poster stating that Pogba was the highest rated player in serie A, Glaston ignores that and instead targets Lucas Biglia, a player that has not once been mentioned in this discussion.
"Wow ... a whole 0.38 rating more than Lucas Biglia (for example). That would make him 5.1% better than Biglia if my maths serve me well.

So, since you're so into Pogba-justifying stats, does that make Biglia 94.9% world class, or worth 94.9% of £100m? I guess it must.

Meanhile, back in the world of football as played not on paper, but on actual football pitches ..." @GlastonSpur

It's why you can't have honest rational debate with him. There are many decent Spurs posters in here, but Glaston stinks the space up unfortunately. If people want actual Spurs debate, this is not the place for it.

 

[baanke laal]

Eriksen has had a bigger impact than Lamela....definitely agree with that. He does have matches where he disappears a bit, though. Still, he is a vital player for us, easily one of the most important in the squad.

I recall Eriksen being one of your most important players in the 2014/15 season, even more so than big daddy Kane, when it came to scoring those vital late goals. He was quality throughout the season.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Why is it just up to me? Why is it not also up to those United fans - and I've noticed that it's mostly the same small group, now with the addition of one or two relative newcomers - who are always looking for a fight, who tend to hunt in packs, and who apparently can't bear to hear views contrary to the herd without reacting by bombarding me with an absolute blizzard of posts?

I stepped out of the Pogba thread a fair while ago to avoid being further accused of "de-railing it" (i.e. expressing views not to the liking of the gung-ho-ers, despite that thread now being filled with - bloated if you like - spurious trivia much of the time). Am I now supposed to partially step out of this Spurs thread (i.e. ignore many of the posts addressed to me) for the same reason?

I actually like some of your posts. It's good for the forum and makes for discussion

The rest of your posts is so nuts you seem like a wind up.

I'm so up in the air whether you are real or just here to piss people off. Most would say your a wind up. But iI still think you actually believe the shit you post .


I'm pro Spurs. You know the team that won the league that time when we all weren't alive.

 

[jungledrums]

Im not trying to mediate, just helping you out. If you ignore them they will eventually go away and you will have better discussions here.

All I ask is that he shows a reasoned and balanced view. @BigDub is a Spurs poster and he does not get shot down. It's because he produces good content and is open to both sides of a debate. People aren't targeting Glaston per se, they are targeting posts that they find irrational or erroneous. It just so happens he is the main producer of said posts. He can continue to push the sob story that he is victimised on here, or he can become a little more reasoned in his approach. I'm guilty myself of turning this into an "argue with Glaston" thread, but it is not in the name of some agenda towards him. So no, no one will ignore him.

 

[NK86]

Yes, but nonetheless the main emphasis has been on a very big net spend.

That is because we can and to get the best talents, you need to spend big more often than not. Yes some of our big buys are not up to the standard as expected but every big club gets them. Even Barca have had many unfortunate big buys.

 

[TheReligion]

Glaston is the master of the straw man argument. He ignores a person's actual point of view and replaces it with some distorted version of that point of view, so that it becomes easier for him to argue against.

Example: In response to a poster stating that Pogba was the highest rated player in serie A, Glaston ignores that and instead targets Lucas Biglia, a player that has not once been mentioned in this discussion.
"Wow ... a whole 0.38 rating more than Lucas Biglia (for example). That would make him 5.1% better than Biglia if my maths serve me well.

So, since you're so into Pogba-justifying stats, does that make Biglia 94.9% world class, or worth 94.9% of £100m? I guess it must.

Meanhile, back in the world of football as played not on paper, but on actual football pitches ..." @GlastonSpur

It's why you can't have honest rational debate with him. There are many decent Spurs posters in here, but Glaston stinks the space up unfortunately. If people want actual Spurs debate, this is not the place for it.

This pretty much sums him up.

Ultimately if you come on the Caf and chat shit you'll get banged.

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

Well this thread went down an interesting route.

 

[Varun]

Well this thread went down an interesting route.

You a Spurs fan or a Utd fan from the future?

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

If Lamela does improve, I think its a few more seasons away from him being as affective as Eriksen is for you. Does that make sense? I don't see a giant leap for him, but I think he has it in him to be a consistent 8-10 goal a season PL player.

I think your squad is a couple of seasons away from having the experience of managing rotation, handling loss of match rhythm etc. Did you have many multiple injuries last season?

Lamela doesn't quite get as many goals/assists as Eriksen, but he battles incredibly well. In some of our big games he was our most vital player, because his work rate and energy were superb. Added to that, it's not as if he's not scoring/assisting at all, 5 goals and 9 assists in the league is hardly poor. For example, Willian had 5 goals and 6 assists despite playing 4 more games, and is generally considered to have had a fantastic season. Both players provide other qualities though.

Lamela has come a long way from the shrinking violet he was at first. He's bought in to the Pocchetino way more than most in our squad. He's proof that you don't need to be particularly physically strong to make it in the Premier League, just have the grit to fight for everything. I love him, he could so easily have run off back to Italy with his tail between his legs, but he put his head down and is now an important player for us.

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

You a Spurs fan or a Utd fan from the future?

Surely you'd prefer Mason!

(please don't take our Alli away)

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Lamela doesn't quite get as many goals/assists as Eriksen, but he battles incredibly well. In some of our big games he was our most vital player, because his work rate and energy were superb. Added to that, it's not as if he's not scoring/assisting at all, 5 goals and 9 assists in the league is hardly very poor. For example, Willian had 5 goals and 6 assists despite playing 4 more games, and is generally considered to have had a fantastic season. Both players provide other qualities though.

Willian's considered as having been good (at best) when most of his teammates lacked motivation under Mourinho, reverting to his usual average form afterwards.

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

Willian's considered as having been good (at best) when most of his teammates lacked motivation under Mourinho, reverting to his usual average form afterwards.

Well, he won Player of the Year for Chelsea I suppose. Though, that's not difficult.

Still, overall he had a good season. I don't think it's fair to label him average afterwards, I just don't think he's a player than has a great deal of end product. Whenever I saw Chelsea play he was one of their brightest players and caused problems.

A lot of his goals were free kicks though if I remember correctly, had that period where for some reason he became world class at them.

 

[Varun]

Lamela doesn't quite get as many goals/assists as Eriksen, but he battles incredibly well. In some of our big games he was our most vital player, because his work rate and energy were superb. Added to that, it's not as if he's not scoring/assisting at all, 5 goals and 9 assists in the league is hardly poor. For example, Willian had 5 goals and 6 assists despite playing 4 more games, and is generally considered to have had a fantastic season. Both players provide other qualities though.

Lamela has come a long way from the shrinking violet he was at first. He's bought in to the Pocchetino way more than most in our squad. He's proof that you don't need to be particularly physically strong to make it in the Premier League, just have the grit to fight for everything. I love him, he could so easily have run off back to Italy with his tail between his legs, but he put his head down and is now an important player for us.

Agree about lamela. The change he's shown last season has been very refreshing to see. He's turned into a real battler which is superb to see given he didn't seem to have it in him earlier. Always had the technical ability and now with the sea change in his mentality and desire to battle it out on the pitch, he's turned it around for himself.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The last few pages of this thread Why do people still engage with Glaston? @jungledrums summed him up perfectly. Just ignore him he's the most obvious WUM on here and I'm shocked he's lasted this long.

Back on topic, are Spurs fans happy with the move to Wembley to play their CL games? I find that a bit strange tbh. I know WHL won't be Spurs home for much longer but still you can't beat playing important and potentially historic matches in your proper stadium.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

The last few pages of this thread Why do people still engage with Glaston? @jungledrums summed him up perfectly. Just ignore him he's the most obvious WUM on here and I'm shocked he's lasted this long.

Back on topic, are Spurs fans happy with the move to Wembley to play their CL games? I find that a bit strange tbh. I know WHL won't be Spurs home for much longer but still you can't beat playing important and potentially historic matches in your proper stadium.

We don't have a choice. The reason CL games are at wembley this year is that part of the existing stadium has already been demolished which has brought the capacity down below Uefa regulations.

 

[theyneverlearn]

We don't have a choice. The reason CL games are at wembley this year is that part of the existing stadium has already been demolished which has brought the capacity down below Uafa regulations.

What has your capacity gone from and to?

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

What has your capacity gone from and to?

Capacity before demolishing one corner was 36,284 it's now about 4000 less.

 

[Kag]

There's something admirable about their transfer business in this summer of madness. They've bought depth in areas they needed to improve and they're keeping the base of a very good first team secure.

It might work, it might not, but they'll be a tough side to play next season irrespective. Big, big seasons for Kane and Alli upcoming. Alli to a greater extent than Kane is under pressure to perform and replicate or even better last season's breakthrough.

 

[acnumber9]

Glaston gets abuse here because he clearly has a chip on his shoulder about Manchester United. It's obviously going to rile up people on a Manchester United forum. He also has no consistency to it so it's obvious that he's doing it. For example if anyone was to suggest that Liverpool would finish above Spurs he'd say it ridiculous because they've only finished above Spurs once in x number of years. But he has no problem saying that Liverpool could finish above Utd despite the exact same thing being true for Utd.

 

[theyneverlearn]

Glaston gets abuse here because he clearly has a chip on his shoulder about Manchester United. It's obviously going to rile up people on a Manchester United forum. He also has no consistency to it so it's obvious that he's doing it. For example if anyone was to suggest that Liverpool would finish above Spurs he'd say it ridiculous because they've only finished above Spurs once in x number of years. But he has no problem saying that Liverpool could finish above Utd despite the exact same thing being true for Utd.

All true.

I find that whenever he is asked a question about a Spurs negative, he always has to bring United into it, rather than acknowledging the post and responding. He can never bad mouth his own team without throwing United into the mix, even if there is no reason to.

Whether its Alli and Pogba, the finishing positions in the past few years, spending etc. he can't just discuss Spurs without having to first of all point out all these strange trends and stats that back him up when it does, but as soon as it doesn't he totally ignores a post, or dismisses it with some bullshit.

 

[sincher]

There's just not much to argue about until Spurs actually win something, is there?

I mean we were total shite last season but we still have a trophy to show for it.

Manchester United > Spuds

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Glaston gets abuse here because he clearly has a chip on his shoulder about Manchester United. It's obviously going to rile up people on a Manchester United forum. He also has no consistency to it so it's obvious that he's doing it. For example if anyone was to suggest that Liverpool would finish above Spurs he'd say it ridiculous because they've only finished above Spurs once in x number of years. But he has no problem saying that Liverpool could finish above Utd despite the exact same thing being true for Utd.

I suspect you are making stuff up here. For sure Glaston will claim it's illogical to predict Liverpool to finish above Spurs, I've said the same because there is no basis for such a claim if the recent several years are anything to go by. However, I have never seen Glaston claim that Liverpool will finish above Man Utd. I would be interested to see that, can you back up your claim?

 

[Attila]

I suspect you are making stuff up here. For sure Glaston will claim it's illogical to predict Liverpool to finish above Spurs, I've said the same because there is no basis for such a claim if the recent several years are anything to go by. However, I have never seen Glaston claim that Liverpool will finish above Man Utd. I would be interested to see that, can you back up your claim?

I may well change this before the transfer window closes, but right now:

1. Arsenal (settled squad and manager + unlikely to be a Leicester City miracle this time around)
2. City (new manager will take time adjust + lots of squad changes will take time to gel, but many talented players)
3. Tottenham (settled squad and manager, several young first XI players who will likely improve further, better squad depth than last season)
4. Liverpool (Klopp has now has benefit of a pre-season and full season as coach + No burden of European games)
5. United (the circus will cause too many distractions, long EL trips in prospect, likely to be lots of squad changes which will take time to gel)
6. Chelski (will improve from last season, but too many ageing players in back four and new manager will take time to adjust; on flip side no burden of European games)

 

[acnumber9]

1. Arsenal
2. City
3. Spurs
4. Liverpool or United

This may change before the window is nearly closed and the season about to kick off

I suspect you are making stuff up here. For sure Glaston will claim it's illogical to predict Liverpool to finish above Spurs, I've said the same because there is no basis for such a claim if the recent several years are anything to go by. However, I have never seen Glaston claim that Liverpool will finish above Man Utd. I would be interested to see that, can you back up your claim?

You're wrong then. There's the most recent example. There have been others. Some of us have the benefit, if you can call it that, of having read his nonsense for years. Back in the day trends of where teams finished didn't matter when it came to predicting that Utd would easily finish above Utd. Now it's all the rage for him. Then last night you had him going on about Pogba's fee and net spend and then saying meanwhile football will be played on the pitch. Spot the hypocrisy?

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

You're wrong then. There's the most recent example. There have been others. Some of us have the benefit, if you can call it that, of having read his nonsense for years. Back in the day trends of where teams finished didn't matter when it came to predicting that Utd would easily finish above Utd. Now it's all the rage for him. Then last night you had him going on about Pogba's fee and net spend and then saying meanwhile football will be played on the pitch. Spot the hypocrisy?

No I'm not wrong, that doesn't say Liverpool will finish above Man Utd, it says "Liverpool OR United"

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

@Attila Ok fair enough.

 

[acnumber9]

No I'm not wrong, that doesn't say Liverpool will finish above Man Utd, it says "Liverpool OR United"

That's why I said could. It's worthy of ridicule to suggest they'd finish above Spurs though. Like I said, many here have been reading the same stuff for years. You haven't.