The Smith-Rowe strike that gave Arsenal the lead. Correct decision?

Marwood said:
You don't know why a footballer might be lying down if he's not actually injured?
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That is exactly when pkayer's reputation comes in pictures. DDG has played for United for 450+ times since 2011. How many times he rolled in pain while the ball is still in play near him leaving goal post empty. Do you have sizeable data to put a high probability of he faking it?

I don't remember such incidents of him. So I trust my player.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Nope, please enlighten me. Why exactly would a footballer be laying down after somebody just trod on his Achilles?
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Looked like he was trying to con a foul to me (and many other posters on here)
 
mu4c_20le said:
I think the pain was real. Could he have played through it? Possibly. If he ended up stumbling and failed to make the save, would he be lambasted? Absolutely.
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The worst sin he did was not face the play, had he off, he could have at least made an effort to save it. The problem a lot of us are having, we've all been in situations in games where you get hurt, you stay up until play has gone and then if needed take a breather. He took a chance thinking an Arsenal player "fouled" him, and got punished for it.
 
bosnian_red said:
I'd say the goalkeeper is daft in both. Just in one he thought an Arsenal played stepped on him as the reason he stopped playing. Whatever though. Irrelevant. It's a cheap goal to score, but it's still a goal and entirely fair from the attacking team. Literally would not be a discussion happening on here about it if it was the other way.
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This is the problem here. You're just giving opinion and being subjective. You don't know De Gea wasn't injured nor do you know he thought it was an Arsenal player that stood on him.

The question is was it unsportsmanlike. The clear answer is yes.
 
Roux said:
This is such a daft post. Somehow bringing up how long he's played for the club and 'respect all these years' means he didn't try to cheat! Arsenal did nothing wrong at all, this is on De Gea.
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He was actually injured or trying to cheat is anybody's guess. No one can claim to be 100% sure. You need to rely on past reputation, his previous such shenanigans if any and then draw probability.

It seems you are very sure of him cheating. I guess you have sizeable data of DDG chronic behaviour. Care to share?
 
Marwood said:
You seem completely unfamiliar with playacting and players exaggerating pain. How's that possible?
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There's not a chance he's play acting in that situation, when has he ever done anything like that before?

Even in times when he should have hit the deck he hasn't like against Everton when he got elbowed in the face.

It's quite obvious you don't realise how painful a stud down your achilles heel is.
 
Tony247 said:
He was actually injured or trying to cheat is anybody's guess. No one can claim to be 100% sure. You need to rely on past reputation, his previous such shenanigans if any and then draw probability.

It seems you are very sure of him cheating. I guess you have sizeable data of DDG chronic behaviour. Care to share?
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don't be silly - you look at his behaviour at the present time more than anything, and he started running after the ref after he gave the goal!!! Can't have been in that much pain could he - as others have pointed out, painful? sure - enough to spend a minute on the floor curled up like he'd been shot? embarrassing.
 
poleglass red said:
The worst sin he did was not face the play, had he off, he could have at least made an effort to save it. The problem a lot of us are having, we've all been in situations in games where you get hurt, you stay up until play has gone and then if needed take a breather. He took a chance thinking an Arsenal player "fouled" him, and got punished for it.
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This was my take seeing it live.
 
TheReligion said:
This is the problem here. You're just giving opinion and being subjective. You don't know De Gea wasn't injured nor do you know he thought it was an Arsenal player that stood on him.

The question is was it unsportsmanlike. The clear answer is yes.
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All we can do is be subjective here? I know from experience that a stamp in the foot/heel/ankle, yes it hurts, but in no way does it cause someone to fall like that and stay down. That's just footballers being footballers. Every footballer also knows instinctively that if the opposing player didn't foul you, that there is no use in rolling around on the ground. Common sense dictates that De gea wouldn't have abandoned the play had he known it was Fred.

Unsportsmanlike? Nah. Play to the whistle. Football has always been play to the whistle. Everyone knows VAR is now here in case a foul happened so if it's not a legit goal, it'll be ruled out. A goalkeeper being hit by his own player does not mean the attacking team should stop playing, no way. Like I said, you then get in situations that teams will just start dropping like flies in dangerous situations to ask for play to be stopped, because now it doesn't matter if the opposing team actually committed a foul or not.
 
Adam-Utd said:
There's not a chance he's play acting in that situation, when has he ever done anything like that before?
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You've never seen him go down after a corner? Because i've seen it plenty of times since his time here - he one of the weakest set pieces Gk's in the league.
 
Tony247 said:
Technically correct. Ref had no choice. However very unsporting from Arsenal. It is not like they had clear chance of scoring and David went down to negate their advantage.
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I don't even see it that way, if it was all the way around I would expect us to take advantage of it.

I'm tired of players faking injuries, so I'm glad those get punished.

Embarrassing from De Gea really.
 
Roux said:
Looked like he was trying to con a foul to me (and many other posters on here)
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I dont believe that for a second.

Could he have continued hopping on 1 leg? possibly

Did he expect the game to be stopped because he was injured? most likely.

The ref should have seen him down injured and stopped the game.

Roux said:
You've never seen him go down after a corner? Because i've seen it plenty of times since his time here - he one of the weakest set pieces Gk's in the league.
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Faking an injury? no. There's a difference between being clattered and pretending to be hurt.

You clearly have some sort of bias against him which is showing here.
 
Roux said:
don't be silly - you look at his behaviour at the present time more than anything, and he started running after the ref after he gave the goal!!! Can't have been in that much pain could he - as others have pointed out, painful? sure - enough to spend a minute on the floor curled up like he'd been shot? embarrassing.
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So basically you don't have sizeable data of similar incidents to call him cheat. Ok then.
 
Tony247 said:
So basically you don't have sizeable data of similar incidents to call him cheat. Ok then.
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No you're just blindly trying to defend the undefendable based on his 'respect' and history...
 
DevTheRed said:
The FA rules state ‘Play is allowed to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in their opinion, only slightly injured’, but it also states ‘Exceptions to this ruling are made only for: Injury to a goalkeeper’.

So shouldn’t play have been stopped as soon as the goalkeeper went down injured, regardless whether it was our player or an arsenal player that caused the injury?

Atkinson should’ve noticed De Gea was down injured and stopped play immediately.
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I think this is correct.

However, it is forgivable that he didn't see De Gea early enough to make the decision and unfortunately, because he doesn't blow the whistle, the goal has to stand. It was always going to be slightly risky for De Gea to go down with his back to the play, but I think he thought he'd been studded by an Arsenal player which is why he did it. On the other hand, at least curl up in the foetal position facing the bloody ref Dave!
 
King7Eric said:
To be fair to Smith-Rowe, I don't think he noticed De Gea was down, the ball bounced to him and he just kicked it goalwards. Even I didn't notice De Gea was down until the ball was travelling towards goal.
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Hmm I find it hard to believe he would do such a meek volley without knowing the keeper was down. Think he would have known he was down through his peripheral vision.
 
bosnian_red said:
All we can do is be subjective here? I know from experience that a stamp in the foot/heel/ankle, yes it hurts, but in no way does it cause someone to fall like that and stay down. That's just footballers being footballers. Every footballer also knows instinctively that if the opposing player didn't foul you, that there is no use in rolling around on the ground. Common sense dictates that De gea wouldn't have abandoned the play had he known it was Fred.

Unsportsmanlike? Nah. Play to the whistle. Football has always been play to the whistle. Everyone knows VAR is now here in case a foul happened so if it's not a legit goal, it'll be ruled out. A goalkeeper being hit by his own player does not mean the attacking team should stop playing, no way. Like I said, you then get in situations that teams will just start dropping like flies in dangerous situations to ask for play to be stopped, because now it doesn't matter if the opposing team actually committed a foul or not.
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No we can be objective and say that the goalkeeper was down with an injury. That's what we know happened and that's how we must interpret it.

You can debate the pain level of the injury and individual pain tolerances but that's a bit pointless don't you think as everyone is different in that respect and the only person that knows it's De Gea.

He had nothing to gain from being injured or pretending to be so why bother? He's never done that before either.

It's hardly like Jens Lehman and Drogba.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I dont believe that for a second.

Could he have continued hopping on 1 leg? possibly

Did he expect the game to be stopped because he was injured? most likely.

The ref should have seen him down injured and stopped the game.


Faking an injury? no. There's a difference between being clattered and pretending to be hurt.

You clearly have some sort of bias against him which is showing here.
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No he's actually been one of my favourite players. Just have to be honest and call it what it is. He should have done his job and then gone down - like all the other keepers have done unless it was serious injury.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I don't even see it that way, if it was all the way around I would expect us to take advantage of it.

I'm tired of players faking injuries, so I'm glad those get punished.

Embarrassing from De Gea really.
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Did you even see the incident? You're acting like nobody actually touched him. Fred quite clearly stands straight on the back of his achilles heel.

Who are you to judge how much it should hurt and whether he's ok to continue. It's just bonkers to even try and pretend that he should have zero pain and iron tendons.

It wasn't a dive or pretending to be hit.
 
Roux said:
No you're just blindly trying to defend the undefendable based on his 'respect' and history...
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No, I am approaching it scientifically by trying to take a context and see if I have sizeable data to predict a conclusion. Without good data there could be bias.
 
Roux said:
No he's actually been one of my favourite players. Just have to be honest and call it what it is. He should have done his job and then gone down - like all the other keepers have done.
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if he's in that much pain he can't stand on his leg then what can he do?

do you really think he's going to just jump on the floor and pretend he's hurt in the hope that somebody notices?

It wasn't even a dangerous situation at that point, the ball is heading high outside of the box ffs.

It's quite clear to me who the lads are that haven't played any type of football or contact sport in general for a long time. They've forgotton how painful things can be :lol:
 
Tony247 said:
No, I am approaching it scientifically by trying to take a context and see if I have sizeable data to predict a conclusion. Without good data there could be bias.
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Scientifically? Jesus. That unfathomable that a football player would gain an advantage huh?
 
TheReligion said:
No we can be objective and say that the goalkeeper was down with an injury. That's what we know happened and that's how we must interpret it.

You can debate the pain level of the injury and individual pain tolerances but that's a bit pointless don't you think as everyone is different in that respect and the only person that knows it's De Gea.

He had nothing to gain from being injured or pretending to be so why bother? He's never done that before either.

It's hardly like Jens Lehman and Drogba.
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Nothing to gain? He tried to get a foul and stop play as he felt a boot step on him. It's what every goalkeeper does, stop a dangerous sequence and relieve pressure. Only it wasn't an Arsenal player and that's why nothing was called.

Since when are we not allowed to use common sense to clearly read into what happened here? It can be reasonably assumed that this is what is likely to have happened.
 
Marwood said:
He stops play there and sets a precedent.

Any goalkeeper can then go down and stop play when the opposing team is in a good position.

I'm glad the goal was given.
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It's not like he saw the guy about to shoot and fell to the floor is it? He got studded right on his ankle and went down.

You can argue whether it was foolish to stay down (it was but I don't think he knew it wasn't an Arsenal player so also unlucky), but what you can't argue is that he was genuinely hurt, even if not severely. The guidance to the refs is that you should stop play if the goalkeeper's hurt. If the ref thinks the goalkeeper is faking though he's well within his rights to book him for simulation.
 
Adam-Utd said:
if he's in that much pain he can't stand on his leg then what can he do?

do you really think he's going to just jump on the floor and pretend he's hurt in the hope that somebody notices?

It wasn't even a dangerous situation at that point, the ball is heading high outside of the box ffs.

It's quite clear to me who the lads are that haven't played any type of football or contact sport in general for a long time. They've forgotton how painful things can be :lol:
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Look - this has happened to me many times playing football, you hobble or drop to a knee and it hurts to jog for a few mins, in this time teammates have unknowingly passed the ball to me and i just stop it or kick out of play - you don't fall flat on the floor in fetal position and then chase the ref a minute later. Get real.

You guys are acting like he broke his leg or something.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Did you even see the incident? You're acting like nobody actually touched him. Fred quite clearly stands straight on the back of his achilles heel.

Who are you to judge how much it should hurt and whether he's ok to continue. It's just bonkers to even try and pretend that he should have zero pain and iron tendons.

It wasn't a dive or pretending to be hit.
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Have you ever had any type of injury? Literally every footballer exaggerates every contact. There's almost no knock that actually causes you to drop down like that, put your face in the floor and roll around in pain. It's not about pain tolerance. Nobody is that soft where you need to roll around like that if nothing is broken or you didn't get shot by a fecking gun. Professional footballers do it all the time and we accept it, it is what it is, but let's not pretend like it isn't all just for show to win a foul. Go to a Sunday league game and suddenly there is much less time wasted by a player pretending to be hurt. They just get up and get on with it.
 
Disallowing this would have created shocking precedent for future use cases, where defenders can just kick each and fall down when the opponent is about to score..
 
bosnian_red said:
Nothing to gain? He tried to get a foul and stop play as he felt a boot step on him. It's what every goalkeeper does, stop a dangerous sequence and relieve pressure. Only it wasn't an Arsenal player and that's why nothing was called.

Since when are we not allowed to use common sense to clearly read into what happened here? It can be reasonably assumed that this is what is likely to have happened.
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The ball was cleared to over 20 yards out.
 
Roux said:
Look - this has happened to me many times playing football, you hobble or drop to a knee and it hurts to jog for a few mins - you don't fall flat on the floor in fetal position and then chase the ref a minute later. Get real.

You guys are acting like he broke his leg or something.
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Yeah its laughable to be honest. Some people actually seem to think that this rolling around all footballers do is actually a genuine reaction? I thought everyone knew it was just a big exaggeration but just part of it to highlight the foul. If you didn't get shot, you didn't break something, didn't tear a muscle or ligament or tendon, why are you rolling around? There are very few things that cause pain to that degree that results in what De Gea did (or most footballers do at any foul). Hell, even with a broken bone adrenaline can usually push through the pain for a bit of time until you need to lay down.
 
Embarrassing by De Gea. 100% a goal! Even worse was his decision to lie with his back to play. Even if both his legs were broken he should have defended his goal until the ball went out of play! What happened to the days when Men were Men?
 
Goal by the rules: yes
Fair play move. No.
Do i care for fair play? No

Those who are blaming Dave. feck off (with all due respect)
 
De Gea is a pussy. Always has been. He has his strengths and his weaknesses.

But because of that, he gets much less protection than most (any?) other keeper in the league. I can't think of any other time when a keeper went down at a corner that play wasn't stopped. Andy Carroll just used to launch himself at De Gea whenever there was a cross.

There was a goal against us last year where De Gea was pushed in the back that was allowed to stand.
 
I believe that the ref had no decision but to give it.

Whether I would want my team scoring as a result of that is another story.

Celebrating a goal like that with so much enthusiasm then going onto lose should go down in the long line of cringeworthy Arsenal moments.
 
Roux said:
Look - this has happened to me many times playing football, you hobble or drop to a knee and it hurts to jog for a few mins, in this time teammates have unknowingly passed the ball to me and i just stop it or kick out of play - you don't fall flat on the floor in fetal position and then chase the ref a minute later. Get real.

You guys are acting like he broke his leg or something.
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Exactly. DDG should be embarrassed at that.
He surely knows that VAR will have a look if he is hobbling about and unable to save a shot properly. He guessed incorrectly it was an Arsenal player when what he should have been doing was playing on and then going down when the ball was out of danger. All these "but it might have really hurt" comments - have a word with yourselves please. Sometimes things hurt when you play football, you don't have to curl up like a 5 year old.
Its a goal every day and twice on Sundays.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah its laughable to be honest. Some people actually seem to think that this rolling around all footballers do is actually a genuine reaction? I thought everyone knew it was just a big exaggeration but just part of it to highlight the foul. If you didn't get shot, you didn't break something, didn't tear a muscle or ligament or tendon, why are you rolling around? There are very few things that cause pain to that degree that results in what De Gea did (or most footballers do at any foul). Hell, even with a broken bone adrenaline can usually push through the pain for a bit of time until you need to lay down.
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i think it just people trying trying to defend him out of blind loyalty really - its all i can put it down to! I love the player, but sometimes you just have to call it what it is.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah its laughable to be honest. Some people actually seem to think that this rolling around all footballers do is actually a genuine reaction? I thought everyone knew it was just a big exaggeration but just part of it to highlight the foul. If you didn't get shot, you didn't break something, didn't tear a muscle or ligament or tendon, why are you rolling around? There are very few things that cause pain to that degree that results in what De Gea did (or most footballers do at any foul). Hell, even with a broken bone adrenaline can usually push through the pain for a bit of time until you need to lay down.
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I haven't played competitively in years but from what I remember anything to do with feet getting raked or trodden on hurt the most.
 
DevTheRed said:
The FA rules state ‘Play is allowed to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in their opinion, only slightly injured’, but it also states ‘Exceptions to this ruling are made only for: Injury to a goalkeeper’.

So shouldn’t play have been stopped as soon as the goalkeeper went down injured, regardless whether it was our player or an arsenal player that caused the injury?

Atkinson should’ve noticed De Gea was down injured and stopped play immediately.
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This is an important part of the rule I’m guessing. Means that the goal shouldn’t have stood.
 
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