The Smith-Rowe strike that gave Arsenal the lead. Correct decision?

Marwood said:
Guys none of you can genuinely believe he was so hurt he had to hit the deck and curl up in a ball. Not possible.

If the ref allows himself to be conned there he sets a terrible precedent for football. You can't have goalkeepers stopping the game whenever they feel like it.
Click to expand...
And you dont know how hurt he was? Look at his reaction when Fred stands on him, he is in severe pain. You can see it on the replay.
When you’re seriously hurt you don’t roll around, that’s been the accepted fact when judging dives, for example. Hurt players tend to stay still. Maybe not curled in a ball but it’s the visual that seems to be throwing people here
 
KingCavani said:
And if he had it would have been ridiculous as he was not seriously injured.
Click to expand...
How serious is serious? Isn’t serious needing treatment as what happened or do refs need to be psychic? How do you even judge that?
Remember, David got raked down the Achilles, it wasn’t a dive. Keepers don’t have to be dying to get a whistle
 
KingCavani said:
Exactly the opposite.

It hurts - will sting for a few minutes and probably again after the game. No one is saying it doesn't.

It doesn't cause you to go into the fetal position and turn your back to the play. A player would know if he was injured or not and he wasn't injured. To go down like that at the first sign of pain, on the job as a goalkeeper while defending a corner...There are no words for just how pathetic that is.

See off the danger, do your job and then go down and get treatment. He didn't know it was Fred and was looking for a foul. Everyone knows this but defends him anyways. Unbelievable.

The idea that Arsenal should feel ashamed for scoring when our player stands on his teammate who proceeds to play dead is just embarrassing. They did nothing wrong, nor did Atkinson.
Click to expand...
You never know the circumstances. What if Fred stepped right on an already injured spot may be during training or so. Could be momentarily very painful. We can only speculate sitting here. The only thing we can do is give some benefit of doubt to DDG who is not famous for cheating or faking injuries every now and then.
 
Yeah correct decision. We need a brave beast of a leader in goal again. Body on the line. Nice guy tweets “we must do better next week” big wages fc needs to die. Leave it all on the pitch. I know it was a sore one but you’d never see Pete or VDS lying in that position with their back to the play like that without even trying to get up or anything. It’s just Dave. Great shot shopper but not brave or commanding enough.
 
Last edited:
TheReligion said:
Your comparisons are like apples and oranges. That's the point and that's why you're wrong. Two totally different scenarios.
Click to expand...
The video was in reply to this:
Correct decision but Smith-Rowe is a little turd, obviously knew keeper was down and acted completely unsportingly. Embarrassing celebrations for an embarrassing football club.
Click to expand...
ESR and Arsenal IMO did nothing wrong for scoring that, and you scored a goal, celebrate. Even if its a cheap goal like Nani's was. They scored because of an opposition feck up, cheap goal or not, goal is a goal.
 
cyberman said:
I just think he got a bad challenge on his ankle and everybody is trying to fill in the blanks. Doesn’t matter who did it, he got raked down the back of the Achilles and was hurt. It wasn’t a dive or feigning contact, he was hurt. A lot of these posts criticising David are bordering on saying it was a dive which can’t be said so they’re rousing that line. I dont understand it.
David didn’t know the ref would kiss it since the normally wouldn’t and he didn’t know Smith Rose would smack it in so I cannot see how VAR even enters David’s head at the time
Click to expand...
I meant Atkinson. He realised that De Gea is down way too late, when he saw it the shot was basically already taken, blowing the whistle clearly crossed his mind but then he probably thought it would be extremely unfair to blow the whistle now so he didn't, hoping that VAR would intervene. At least that's what I think happened.

As for De Gea, I am not saying he was diving or cheating. I get that it hurt and you can go down but you still must be aware what happens around you and if the ref stops the play or not. He went down and turned his back to the play which is just stupid IMO.
 
bosnian_red said:
I guarantee you he wouldn't have stopped playing had he known Fred stepped on him and not an Arsenal played.

This is only being discussed because it happened against us. There's virtually a consensus from every non-United supporter that it's a perfectly fair goal and that De Gea/Fred just fecked up. That's it.
Click to expand...
I think the pain was real. Could he have played through it? Possibly. If he ended up stumbling and failed to make the save, would he be lambasted? Absolutely.
 
De Gea just doesn't have the right mentality to play for us. I'm sorry I know people are gonna say that's rubbish, but I can't think of any other top goalkeeper who instead of keeping an eye on the ball because play hasn't stopped just jumps down onto the floor to try and get a freekick (from his own player no less) Even if you are hurt, you're in goal, you get up and watch play even if you have to limp who the feck cares, this is playing for Manchester united not Aldershot town - I could understand if he was injured, but he wasn't he was fine 30 seconds after getting up. Can you imagine the likes of Schmikes, Ederson, Peak Czech etc doing this?

It's the attitude you expect from a school kid, he's the goalkeeper, the only line of defense for shots directly on goal and he thinks it's acceptable to lay on the floor facing away from play in order to try and get a free kick. He knew what he was risking by doing so and he chose to do it all the same. It's pathetic quite frankly for a top level keeper to be taking a risk like that and I cannot fathom why the hell anyone would do so. It's simply callous.
 
I do not think there is anything in the laws that says that if keepers get injured by their own player or if he goes down on his own the play should be stopped. It was not a long stretch of play anyway. It is the correct decision. Now if there was a foul committed on him then the goal would not have stood at all.
 
My gut is that I'd have been fuming if it had been disallowed against us. I also think it genuinely hurt him but perhaps he could've made more of an effort to stay up until the danger was gone.

What would have been interesting is if he'd have stayed down and said he needed to go off. Would the ref have changed his mind I wonder?

Also, he (the ref) was clearly going to blow the whistle and then stopped as he saw the shot going in. Very odd sequence all around with bonus comedy points for Arsenal celebrating it 5 minutes later like they'd scored a worldie. :lol:
 
Yeah De gea needs to be stronger there, as a former GAA goalkeeper I wish we got the protection that soccer goalkeepers get. It’s obviously a nasty knock to take but would he have went down if he knew it would have resulted in a goal? I doubt it.
 
Marwood said:
Genuine injury I'd agree.

But you can't ask for high morals from Arsenal when our own keeper is cheating.
Click to expand...
He wasn't cheating. Fred stood right on his achilles. Do you really think he's going to lay on the floor for 2 minutes in wintery conditions just to try and win a fairly pointless foul? come on :lol:
 
bosnian_red said:
The video was in reply to this:

ESR and Arsenal IMO did nothing wrong for scoring that, and you scored a goal, celebrate. Even if its a cheap goal like Nani's was. They scored because of an opposition feck up, cheap goal or not, goal is a goal.
Click to expand...

In my opinion they are different situations. Infact my opinion doesn't matter; they are objectively different. No two ways about it.

A player is injured in one. A player is daft in the other.
 
I mean we have prior art almost every other game where the GK bumps into his own goalpost making a save, rolls around a bit and play is stopped.

Goalkeepers are generally given protection because the position is so special.
 
cyberman said:
And you dont know how hurt he was? Look at his reaction when Fred stands on him, he is in severe pain. You can see it on the replay.
When you’re seriously hurt you don’t roll around, that’s been the accepted fact when judging dives, for example. Hurt players tend to stay still. Maybe not curled in a ball but it’s the visual that seems to be throwing people here
Click to expand...

We do know how hurt he was. We're all humans, we know how pain works, how much certain things hurt. We've all played football numerous times. We've all been stood on. We also saw him up and about shortly after.

Cheating is the worst part of football. Closely following it is the normalisation of cheating, to the point fans don't even recognise it anymore.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Refs always blow the whistle when keepers go down. They are given extra protection. Atkinson didn't see that De Gea was down and not moving When he did he went to blow his whistle but the ball had already gone in. It's very simple and we don't need to bash our players for anything on this one.
Click to expand...
Refs do not blow the whistle when keepers go down. VAR checked if there is any foul on DeGea. There was none. It was not a head injury either. The goal rightly stood.
 
Nothing wrong with the decision once the ball had gone in before the ref stopped the game, but the Arsenal players all celebrating like they'd won the league when it was eventually given was probably the most pathetic aspect of the whole thing. Especially since they managed to end up losing anyway so were literally celebrating nothing other than their own lack of sportsmanship. Bunch of weird twats.

But yeah otherwise fault lies mainly with De Gea. Maybe slightly with Atkinson but he was probably as baffled as everyone else.
 
It was the correct decision but it was a bit dickish by Arsenal. If it was the other way around we would be having fits if our players didn't put the ball in the net. Isn't it "Play to the whistle?"

I don't see how people are blaming De Gea, that's actually a very painful area to be stomped especially when a player is going full throttle and Fred almost always is.
 
cyberman said:
The ref did think the keeper was seriously injured and it’s why he tried to rule it out at the last second?
Click to expand...

He didn't. He got the VAR to check if there was any foul on DeGea. There was none.
 
The most surprising thing about arsenal's lack of compassion was that they didn't try to hit the ball in again and score a second.
 
I seriously don't understand some United supporters. Here is a player who has been playing for almost a decade for the club, have a very good reputation against cheating or faking injuries or time wasting. He goes down in pain, the ball is cleared from the box, arsenal (and mind you this is fecking Arsenal) player sees him down, takes the opportunity and put ball in empty net from outside of the box. And these supporters instead of giving benefit of doubt to their veteran player and lamenting arsenal's unsporting behaviour, are calling DDG names!

DDG has not earn any respect from you for all these years ffs!!
 
Ref had no choice.
But what does this say about the non-decisions (other than hand ball) taken inside the 6 yard box from corner kicks. We see time after time wrestling matches between defenders and attackers and no decisions taken or very few, and usually to the benefit of defenders, resulting from this type of set piece play?
Perhaps at corners most refs get an attack of 'temporary blindness'? However, the all seeing VAR also seems to miss out on these things as well. Surely a non-decision (inside the 6 yard area) is the same as a incorrect decision in the greater 18 yard area... as demonstrated with the penalty last night?

Also what the hell was Fred doing stood so close to De Gea? Was he supposed to be protecting him?
 
(...) said:
Why is it morally questionnable ? De Gea wasn't injured. He wasn't hurt by an Arsenal player.
If your teams scores after the last defender falls and asks for a foul but the referee doesn't stop play, would you find it morally questionnable and expect your team to score an own goal?
Or maybe it's only for goalkeepers ? Even if it's easier to score a 1v1 with plenty of time(example above) than scoring that volley.
Click to expand...
Eh? he quite clearly was injured. It doesn't matter if the pain only lasted for 2-3 minutes.

What else was he doing, lying down for fun?

You scored a goal in an empty net with an injured goalkeeper and celebrated like you won the world cup. That's very poor sportsmanship.

Glad you lost :)
 
Foxbatt said:
Refs do not blow the whistle when keepers go down. VAR checked if there is any foul on DeGea. There was none. It was not a head injury either. The goal rightly stood.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that VAR informed him the ball had crossed the line before he blew the whistle and that the goal had to stand because of that.

And yes, keepers are afforded extra protection and get easy whistles from refs often. Atkinson was going to stop the play once he noticed De Gea was down.
 
Correct decision but everyone keeps saying ESR wasn’t to know, when you can clearly see he glances at the goal before he even receives the ball, and likely took the shot on because he knew De Gea was on the deck. He’s within his rights to play by the whistle, though it’s a bit dickish to take to goal and celebrate like they did. It would have been more controversial if it’d been disallowed.
 
(...) said:
Why is it morally questionnable ? De Gea wasn't injured. He wasn't hurt by an Arsenal player.
If your teams scores after the last defender falls and asks for a foul but the referee doesn't stop play, would you find it morally questionnable and expect your team to score an own goal?
Or maybe it's only for goalkeepers ? Even if it's easier to score a 1v1 with plenty of time(example above) than scoring that volley.
Click to expand...

Your team were embarrassing and were punished by the footballing God's (and God Ronaldo) accordingly.

You shouldn't have poked the bear.
 
I am betting that if it was an Arsenal player then the goal would not have stood. Because Fred took out his own player the goal stood and rightly so. It was a single phase of play too. The ball cleared then it was passed and hit it first time. Only Fred was appealing because he knew that he had taken out DeGea. Everyone else including the referee did not notice it until too late.
 
dove said:
I meant Atkinson. He realised that De Gea is down way too late, when he saw it the shot was basically already taken, blowing the whistle clearly crossed his mind but then he probably thought it would be extremely unfair to blow the whistle now so he didn't, hoping that VAR would intervene. At least that's what I think happened.

As for De Gea, I am not saying he was diving or cheating. I get that it hurt and you can go down but you still must be aware what happens around you and if the ref stops the play or not. He went down and turned his back to the play which is just stupid IMO.
Click to expand...
But I dont think he makes a save anyway. If he gets up and can’t move and the shot still goes in, we would all be shouting at him for not staying down and getting the refs attention since he was genuinely hurt. The ref should see it, David didn’t drop right when the shot came in after all. Ref sees it, blows and everybody laughs at Fred since nothing is out of the Ordinary with the scenario but Smith Rowe shoots and David should pop up like the Undertaker and dive off that injured foot.
There’s a reason why all the well he wasn’t that hurt posts don’t actually have evidence of other players getting the same injury and immediately popping up from the oh it only hurts for a few seconds etc crowd. The reason it’s anecdotal is because every player on the receiving end stays down and gets treatment because it really bloody hurts.
It’s a weird goal and should really be forgotten about but I never knew we had so many Terry Butchers on here!
 
Adam-Utd said:
Eh? he quite clearly was injured. It doesn't matter if the pain only lasted for 2-3 minutes.

What else was he doing, lying down for fun?

You scored a goal in an empty net with an injured goalkeeper and celebrated like you won the world cup. That's very poor sportsmanship.

Glad you lost :)
Click to expand...

You don't know why a footballer might be lying down if he's not actually injured?
 
Hughes35 said:
Yep, correct decision and shocking from De Gea. Don't think there is any argument really.

Deserves a goal given against him for being such a drama queen.
Click to expand...

Have to agree with you. Typical of most players nowadays. Far too soft.
 
Marwood said:
You don't know why a footballer might be lying down if he's not actually injured?
Click to expand...
Nope, please enlighten me. Why exactly would a footballer be laying down after somebody just trod on his Achilles?
 
Adam-Utd said:
Eh? he quite clearly was injured. It doesn't matter if the pain only lasted for 2-3 minutes.

What else was he doing, lying down for fun?

You scored a goal in an empty net with an injured goalkeeper and celebrated like you won the world cup. That's very poor sportsmanship.

Glad you lost :)
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
antohan said:
VAR doesn't override the ref, it assists the ref in making his decision. The ref will have considered his intention and discarded it as irrelevant. Had he blown before then he would be in a bit of a pickle, absolutely.
Click to expand...
He made a decision that the game should be halted so the injured player could get treatment. If he blows the whistle before the ball goes in that intention and action still stands. Regardless how how De Gea was injured, he still needed treatment for the game to continue in the way the game was intended to be played.

The issue with this is that it’s more ungentlemanly conduct from Arsenal and our players presuming a whistle would go that’s caused the issue, which has done the referee a big favour in being too slow to blow up.

What would have happened if De Gea just rolled his ankle instead? The goal still stands?
 
TheReligion said:
In my opinion they are different situations. Infact my opinion doesn't matter; they are objectively different. No two ways about it.

A player is injured in one. A player is daft in the other.
Click to expand...
I'd say the goalkeeper is daft in both. Just in one he thought an Arsenal played stepped on him as the reason he stopped playing. Whatever though. Irrelevant. It's a cheap goal to score, but it's still a goal and entirely fair from the attacking team. Literally would not be a discussion happening on here about it if it was the other way.
 
Tony247 said:
I seriously don't understand some United supporters. Here is a player who has been playing for almost a decade for the club, have a very good reputation against cheating or faking injuries or time wasting. He goes down in pain, the ball is cleared from the box, arsenal (and mind you this is fecking Arsenal) player sees him down, takes the opportunity and put ball in empty net from outside of the box. And these supporters instead of giving benefit of doubt to their veteran player and lamenting arsenal's unsporting behaviour, are calling DDG names!

DDG has not earn any respect from you for all these years ffs!!
Click to expand...

This is such a daft post. Somehow bringing up how long he's played for the club and 'respect all these years' means he didn't try to cheat! Arsenal did nothing wrong at all, this is on De Gea.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Nope, please enlighten me. Why exactly would a footballer be laying down after somebody just trod on his Achilles?
Click to expand...

You seem completely unfamiliar with playacting and players exaggerating pain. How's that possible?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.