The search for a holding midfielder (Summer 2017 version)

The red panther said:
Put in a €25-30m offer and they will sell.

Dendoncker has already said he will not commit to staying at Anderlecht despite them asking him. If the right club shows up for him he would demand to leave and a Belgian club even Anderlecht can not say no to anything near €30m.
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Perhaps a year long loan for TFM as a little sweetner?
 
If we can only get one more in this is where the focus needs to be, we aren't going to challenge for the title so lets wait for a player in the Dembele/Pulisic/Lemar/Carrasco class for next summer for the wing, and solidify our midfiled this season so we don't need to keep using Fellaini, instead having a unit of Pogba/Herrera/Pereira/New DM/Carrick as the options to fill the midfield.
 
There's talk of Fiorentina selling Badelj, I think he'd be a solid option for a few years. Any time I watch Fiorentina he looks composed and has a much better range of passing than someone like Matic, not to mention he'd be significantly cheaper.
 
It's clear we won't sign any this summer, despite the manager's wishes. We are clearly laying all our eggs in the Perisic basket. Not sure I would have been happy if you told me back in May - United are signing (Lukaku, Perisic, Lindelof). However, considering the market today, it might not be a terrible window but certainly not a great one either for United. Hopefully there is some truth in the 'Griezmann next summer' rumours, we will feckin need him.
 
I can't believe we won't sign a midfielder.
It's still the middle of July.
 
El-Manos said:
It's clear we won't sign any this summer, despite the manager's wishes. We are clearly laying all our eggs in the Perisic basket. Not sure I would have been happy if you told me back in May - United are signing (Lukaku, Perisic, Lindelof). However, considering the market today, it might not be a terrible window but certainly not a great one either for United. Hopefully there is some truth in the 'Griezmann next summer' rumours, we will feckin need him.
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We cant start with just carrick as our only dm
 
If we are only signing one player we should go all out for fabhinho even if it means paying over the odds for him so he can fill in rb spot and we can also use Valencia as a wide winger again when required for wing play.
 
El-Manos said:
I agree but it's looking that way. Matic & Dier were our targets, Spurs won't sell and Chelsea will be adamant on selling Matic abroad.
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We need to find someone else.
 
devilish said:
We cant start with just carrick as our only dm
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Maybe Jose see's something in one of our younger players. I'd say Axel could well play the role in numerous game throughout the season. He's also used Fellaini there & Herrera, so we do have cover.
 
Red_toad said:
Maybe Jose see's something in one of our younger players. I'd say Axel could well play the role in numerous game throughout the season. He's also used Fellaini there & Herrera, so we do have cover.
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The same jose who wanted to spend some serious money on either dier or matic?

Ps axel is a cb, herrera is a box to box midfielder and fellaini is shit @Ramshock
 
devilish said:
The same jose who wanted to spend some serious money on either dier or matic?

Ps axel is a cb, herrera is a box to box midfielder and fellaini is shit @Ramshock
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Axel isn't just a centre back, he can play numerous positions and has played as holding midfielder for the first team.

PS how do you know Jose was prepared to spend some serious cash on Matic or Dier? Did he tell you, as I've never heard him utter a word about how much he was willing to offer.
 
Red_toad said:
Axel isn't just a centre back, he can play numerous positions and has played as holding midfielder for the first team.

PS how do you know Jose was prepared to spend some serious cash on Matic or Dier? Did he tell you, as I've never heard him utter a word about how much he was willing to offer.
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Poor arguments
 
#1 Fabinho (looks unlikely)
#2 Matic (apparently quite likely according to press)
#3 Gueye (love this guy - Everton surely won't sell but I rate him v highly)

#3443 Dier (£60m....jog on Levy)
 
Red_toad said:
Axel isn't just a centre back, he can play numerous positions and has played as holding midfielder for the first team.

PS how do you know Jose was prepared to spend some serious cash on Matic or Dier? Did he tell you, as I've never heard him utter a word about how much he was willing to offer.
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Very poor argument
 
tomaldinho1 said:
#1 Fabinho (looks unlikely)
#2 Matic (apparently quite likely according to press)
#3 Gueye (love this guy - Everton surely won't sell but I rate him v highly)

#3443 Dier (£60m....jog on Levy)
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I really wonder why Jose does not want Fabinho. He's had a brillliant season, one of the few midfielders who's actually gettable and plays in a position we have to enforce. Matic on the other hand, I dont see. Chelsea do not want to sell to United which I understand
 
This search is over now i think. Jose has admitted he would settle for just one more additional signing and imo that signing will be Perisic. We have tested the water over 2 or 3 CM, and haven't really looked that interested in taking the plunge with any of them. Keita looks like he may now be available, yet we don't seem interested in him at all, which i find baffling tbh.

Whereas the lengthy pursuit of Perisic is still ongoing, and with no other secondary target for that position ever being mentioned, he surely now has to be viewed as our primary and only real target. So looks like we are actually going to let Inter bend us over the barrel on this one.

I admit i am bitterly disappointed we won't be getting a DM of sorts, but it is what it is, and maybe this will give a chance to Pereira in the middle. I just don't see it being enough to make us all conquering next season myself. Hope im wrong, but im getting a sinking feeling that we are really missing a trick with Keita, and whoever gets him will be very serious contenders next year.
 
apotheosis said:
This search is over now i think. Jose has admitted he would settle for just one more additional signing and imo that signing will be Perisic. We have tested the water over 2 or 3 CM, and haven't really looked that interested in taking the plunge with any of them. Keita looks like he may now be available, yet we don't seem interested in him at all, which i find baffling tbh.

Whereas the lengthy pursuit of Perisic is still ongoing, and with no other secondary target for that position ever being mentioned, he surely now has to be viewed as our primary and only real target. So looks like we are actually going to let Inter bend us over the barrel on this one.

I admit i am bitterly disappointed we won't be getting a DM of sorts, but it is what it is, and maybe this will give a chance to Pereira in the middle. I just don't see it being enough to make us all conquering next season myself. Hope im wrong, but im getting a sinking feeling that we are really missing a trick with Keita, and whoever gets him will be very serious contenders next year.
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Where did you read the bolded part?
 
No CM has been linked with us except Dier and Matic. I really wonder why that is when it's clear our midfield lacks depth. I wonder who else is on Jose's list but there are quality players around who are obtainable. Not buying a winger will not hurt us, but no midfielder could be an issue
 
Red_toad said:
I wasn't arguing, maybe that's why you perceive it as a poor one....
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It's a poor one because Tuanzebe is not a DM. He has played CB at our youth system forever and only played DM in the first team due to sheer lack of option. If TFM had not been injured, Tuanzebe would have never played DM. Fosu-Mensah played DM at Ajax and at our Youth system, and also replaced Pogba a few times during the season.

If we fail to get an additional midfielder, I recon TFM will be playing at DM, while Pereira will be an option at CM. If he plays, then Herrera will drop back a bit to play the holding position with Pogba en Pereira in front of him (depending on the formation we play ofcourse).
 
Infra-red said:
If either of these players are targets, it would be as a #8 to rotate/compete with Herrera/Pogba. They aren't holding midfielders.
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Yh true unless Mou is planning to convert him. I actually think it might work quite well having a 3 of (Sanchez - Herrera - Pogba) - would be very high energy and can all contribute offensively & defensively.
 
TheForgottenOne said:
It's a poor one because Tuanzebe is not a DM. He has played CB at our youth system forever and only played DM in the first team due to sheer lack of option. If TFM had not been injured, Tuanzebe would have never played DM. Fosu-Mensah played DM at Ajax and at our Youth system, and also replaced Pogba a few times during the season.

If we fail to get an additional midfielder, I recon TFM will be playing at DM, while Pereira will be an option at CM. If he plays, then Herrera will drop back a bit to play the holding position with Pogba en Pereira in front of him (depending on the formation we play ofcourse).
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TFM is way too rash and undisciplined to play a holding role in midfield. Axel actually looked very comfortable in his first team games as a midfielder against Spuds and Southampton. Regardless of where he's played in the past, Jose hasn't been afraid to use him in the middle of the park. I'm struggling to remember any games where TFM has looked comfortable playing in the middle of the park for United. I'll base my debate (not argument) on what they do on the pitch, not what they did in the past for youth teams.

Edit he also played as a midfielder with TFM at right back against Palace. So he only started there due to TFM's injury?
 
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tomaldinho1 said:
Yh true unless Mou is planning to convert him. I actually think it might work quite well having a 3 of (Sanchez - Herrera - Pogba) - would be very high energy and can all contribute offensively & defensively.
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I duno, Mourinho's midfields are usually a little more structured than that and I imagine he'd only trust Sanches as a backup at this point in his development.
 
apotheosis said:
No more of a DLP if anything, but regardless, he will be the one who comes into the middle now instead of a new DM, which was the point i was making really.
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A dlp is not a dm. Its like replacing a gk with a lb really
 
schwalbe said:
Where did you read the bolded part?
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Bild did an article last week which claimed RB Leipzig may now be prepared to consider the sale of Keita for a huge enough bid. I don't know how true it is of course, but it has also been rumored that Pool have had a 66m bid rejected. So it would appear that Liverpool suddenly have found enough reason to be optimistic enough to submit an official bid. So there may be some truth to Leipzig's sudden change in stance.

http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/rb-leipzig/80-mio-fuer-keita-52312422.bild.html

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-to-Liverpool-RB-Leipzig-transfer-news-gossip

http://www.101greatgoals.com/news/naby-keitas-liverpool-move-may-happen-silly-money/

If there is any encouragement being given, then this is the type of player we should be looking for in my view.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
A DLP is a type of DM. The DM is the position while DLP is the role.
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Not that anything hinges on this, but I'm not sure that makes much sense. Scholes (in the latter part of his career) and Pirlo both played much deeper in the midfield than Kante does. Would you describe the former two players as defensive midfielders and the latter not?
 
SwansonsTache said:
With his low release clause for next year we should start the groundwork already this season, if only in preparation for signing him next summer.

Will be a struggle though, every top club will be all over him with that clause.
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One thing I've often thought about in the past few weeks (with all the talk of Mbappe, Dembele and Keita) is where are all the players about to have their breakthrough seasons? Surely there's many of these guys out there in the Belgian, French and German leagues?
 
Infra-red said:
Not that anything hinges on this, but I'm not sure that makes much sense. Scholes (in the latter part of his career) and Pirlo both played much deeper in the midfield than Kante does. Would you describe the former two players as defensive midfielders and the latter not?
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If you spend most of your time as a midfielder in your half of the field behind the ball then you are a DM. DM (just like other positions on the pitch like CM, AM, LB, CB, CF, LWF etc) is defined by positioning and not necessarily role or effectiveness.

You can push up a CB (like Pique does) to become a CF cos he is no longer a CB when he spends most of his time in or around the opposition box.

Not every DM is a destroyer. A DM whose primary role is to dictate play from his deep or holding position is a DLPM e.g. Carrick, Alonso, Pirlo etc. How good they are as ball winners and the tradeoff of playing them in that position and/or role is a different and broader discussion.
 
devilish said:
A dlp is not a dm. Its like replacing a gk with a lb really
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Yes i understand that, but all im saying is that if we don't buy a DM, then that will allow opportunity for Pereira to come in -although not as a DM- but as probably more of a DLP option. We must be looking at an alternative option to playing with an actual DM, especially if we haven't got any and we are not going to buy one. Whether or not TFM or another youngster was to come in for that role, then i don't really know, but i would find it unlikely to be first looking at the experience of Matic, and then simply settling for a untested youngster as a regular DM.

Tbh hard to say, i would have thought his primary plans will have been affected by us not getting a DM, so maybe some re-evaluating and revising of them is currently underway?

Interesting to know how has he setup us up so far in the friendlies? (i haven't seen any of them myself as yet, too late for me!) Is there anything tactical we can determine from them so far, generally speaking?
 
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