England U21 captain James Ward-Prowse and Roy Keane to coach him the role.
Schneiderlin until that bears fruit.
Schneiderlin until that bears fruit.
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
Rooney, post 'transition'.
As good as Pogba is, United could have potentially had a midfield - albeit unlikely to get all three especially in the same window - of:
-----Pjanic----
Xhaka--Kante
For virtually the same price. That would have been terrific balance IMO. Kante the busy B2B engine, Xhaka the controlling passer alongside him who can provide a bit of defensive bite aswell, and Pjanic the creator and set-piece specialist just ahead of them.
-----Pjanic----
Xhaka--Kante
For virtually the same price. That would have been terrific balance IMO. Kante the busy B2B engine, Xhaka the controlling passer alongside him who can provide a bit of defensive bite aswell, and Pjanic the creator and set-piece specialist just ahead of them.
I'd choose Pogba.
Agree with this.
Crying shame as the player he was becoming looked like it was going to be amazing, then his illness took it all away. Feel so sorry for the guy. Still remember the 2010 season. Such a shame.
Apparently Steven N'zonzi became half decent player since he joined Sevilla.
he did indeed, pretty much the heart of that team
Edit: Barca were supposedly interested in him & Chelsea are interested
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That would be no good in terms of game defining inventiveness/ability to control the proceedings. And functionally a bit like Kanté + Pogba + Matuidi, come to think of it, which was rather dreary to watch for France. We don't just have to relieve Ander and Pogba in terms of defensive duties. We need someone who can actively control the game à la Carrick, Alonso, Scholes, Modrić, Pirlo - as either the DLP if Ander is used as the right sided box-to-box, or the positionally aware and defensively decent right sided CM if Ander stays as the #6 (like the Verratti position at PSG where he builds in tandem with Motta). Neither Pogba nor Ander can do that to the level that is needed (Ander can, to an extent, but he can't be your primary), which is a bit of a concern in terms of our setup and personnel.
In terms of the ideal template, it should be like one of these:
The first one is more defensively secure, and the second is more sexy.
Is the unnamed player in the corner Phil Jones?
William Carvalho has looked rather decent this season, got a good passing range on him, very composed and is like a brick wall.
I could even see us going for him in Jan because he is alot like Matic but more mobile and has better ball control.
I could even see us going for him in Jan because he is alot like Matic but more mobile and has better ball control.
Pogba - Herrera
Carvalho
Carvalho
Was watching Sevilla this season a bit and he is really looking half decent now. Has size but he's incredibly agile for a tall man, can tackle and not afraid of passing forward also sending few long balls forward every now and then.
He has experience in EPL tho his long balls need some fine tuning he would certainly be an improvement over Fellaini and Schneiderlin, as well as the fact that he's the type of player Jose loves.
Don't know about Barca because they have plenty of players that can play in that position and his passion tho good is not on the level for Barca style of play.
A Young Carrick type player I reckon will be our next signing along with a CB.
Carvalho is too limited on the ball to ever be more than a water carrier.
He could work in a mourinho side I guess.
I think herrera is the answer to your midfield woes though. Good on the ball and seems to be taking to defensive responsibility. If he can nail the holding role, it's a lot easier to find a player for the advanced midfield role alongside Pogba.
He could work in a mourinho side I guess.
I think herrera is the answer to your midfield woes though. Good on the ball and seems to be taking to defensive responsibility. If he can nail the holding role, it's a lot easier to find a player for the advanced midfield role alongside Pogba.
Only one that comes to my mind, who's young and has that understanding of the game as well as passing and playmaker abilities is Weigl from Dortmund. Tho I'm concerned about his gentle build, he would get eaten alive in Pl.
Veratti would also be an interesting option but he isn't too keen on joining some England side, he prefers to go back to Italy.
Yeah, N'Zonzi has been immense for Sevilla. Him and Nasri absolutely dominate midfields.
I liked him at both Blackburn and Stoke but he's seemed to step up another level at Sevilla. I'd be all for us going for him, though he does seem comfortable at Sevilla so, even with all the supposed interest in him, I wouldn't be surprised if he stays for years to come.
I liked him at both Blackburn and Stoke but he's seemed to step up another level at Sevilla. I'd be all for us going for him, though he does seem comfortable at Sevilla so, even with all the supposed interest in him, I wouldn't be surprised if he stays for years to come.
N'Zonzi and Nasri are dominating midfields in La Liga?
From what I've seen, absolutely!
There's a 3rd player alongside them like a Vaquez or a Vitolo who are both good as well, but they are a lot more advanced compared to those two (though Nasri does roam a lot). I've been really impressed with how they've done, dictating the play from deep.
Not dominating but they're surprisingly good.
What's his passing range like and how mobile is he?
I always thought of him as more of a destroyer type (and a limited one at that) when he was playing in the Premier League.
In my opinion his passing range is very good. For the most part, he'll just keep it simple, moving the ball with the CBs and playing short passes to the more creative players in Nasri, Vitolo and Vazquez etc, but, if needed, he has it in his locker to pass between the lines (much like how Blind and Carrick do for us) switching their slow paced possession into a quick attack and can switch the ball to the other flank with relative ease.
I see him similar to Carrick in terms of his mobility. He looks like a very laboured type of player but has good technique and positioning to make up for it. He may look slow but once he gets going he's quite fast. He copes very well under pressure as he shields the ball very well, has good close control and picks the right pass. He can also, but rarely, make bursting runs with or without the ball as, when he gets going, is quite the bulldozer. Plus, being as big as he is, he's very good at intercepting the ball and keeping misplaced passes to him in play.
Having just checked he's also only 27 going onto 28 next month which, for a player of this mould, would be as good a time as any to buy.
N'Zonzi was always great for Stoke so not sure why people are only rating him now he's at Sevilla.
He's really not good enough on the ball for us though.
He's really not good enough on the ball for us though.
I'll still have Pogba, of the 3 midfielders you listed, only Kante has continued something close to his last season form. Pjanic has struggled, Xhaka doesn't really set the world alight, at his best, he's a good player, nothing more. I'll have Pogba, thanks.
I think a midfield of:
Blind/Carrick
Herrera Pogba
I so desperately hope the Blind gets a shot this season as the holding player.
I wouldn't say no to that, Carvalho has stepped it up a notch this season
I've never been overly impressed with Carvalho, his mobility isn't good enough IMO. I thought N'Zonzi was more of an all action box to box midfielder, rather than a proper holding CM.
Hope so too, he has proved that he can cope in the premise a CB, don't see why he can't as a CDM
I think he is . His problem was always consistency
Leandro Paredes, by far the standout holding midfield option available imo, some would say Weigl, but Paredes ability on the ball is a couple levels above, will be at a top team before long.
Either would be incredible, both very exciting young midfielders.
We desperately need a DM and CB. William Carvallho looked alright to me at the Euro's. Weigl sounds like the best possible option as a replacement for Carrick but I don't think he's gettable.
I think we need an addition to both positions in January to reach top 4. Carrick is doing great but we can't play him every game since he doesn't have the legs. Sooner or later we'll need someone else.
This N'Zonzi is supposed to have a relatively cheap buyout clause right? Maybe we should go for him so that we have another player to screen the back four, since Schneiderlin and Fellaini haven't convinced me.
I think we need an addition to both positions in January to reach top 4. Carrick is doing great but we can't play him every game since he doesn't have the legs. Sooner or later we'll need someone else.
This N'Zonzi is supposed to have a relatively cheap buyout clause right? Maybe we should go for him so that we have another player to screen the back four, since Schneiderlin and Fellaini haven't convinced me.
What about Allan, 25, from Napoli, Iv seen around 12 maybe 15 games of Napoli this and last season and he is quite unique, very similar style to Kante, better on the ball than him though and has the non-stop bull dog approach like him.
Here is a fairly long video of him showing his stuff, I can assure you from watching him for entire matches that his stamina is ridiculous.
Don't just watch the first couple minutes because the vid shows different aspects of his game in order,
first shows his attacking play
Then passing range
Then defending ability
Now imagine having this kind of player alongside or behind Pogba and Herrera, could he be the missing piece in the puzzle??
Here is a fairly long video of him showing his stuff, I can assure you from watching him for entire matches that his stamina is ridiculous.
Don't just watch the first couple minutes because the vid shows different aspects of his game in order,
first shows his attacking play
Then passing range
Then defending ability
Now imagine having this kind of player alongside or behind Pogba and Herrera, could he be the missing piece in the puzzle??
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If we sign a player like this than we need to ditch Herrera for a playmaker or to transition to 3-4-3 like Chelsea and overrun opponents on the flanks.
Weigl fits the bill perfectly. Given the midfielders we already have (Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini and Schneiderlin), we would do well to sign a controlling midfielder because that alone makes Carrick despite his age a key player in our squad.
The only player we currently have who could attempt this is Blind but I don't think Jose fancies him in deep midfield (he's probably not Jose's type of midfielder). That said, I would give Weigl a couple more years to develop before going all out. He still needs the games and is getting them now at Dortmund.
The only player we currently have who could attempt this is Blind but I don't think Jose fancies him in deep midfield (he's probably not Jose's type of midfielder). That said, I would give Weigl a couple more years to develop before going all out. He still needs the games and is getting them now at Dortmund.
An underrated role. While we love the excitement of a new forward or winger, the holding MF is key - supports defence when needed, slows/speeds up game as required and links play.... without it, defence and midfield are disjointed and work separately.
We should have gone for Kroos, both before Madrid and before recent contract extension.
Out of current squad, don't know why managers haven't trusted Blind..... he's a 'stand in' CH or FB at best but a good passer of the ball and intelligent. I think he'd do fine sitting in front of the defence, at least until we find someone better.
We should have gone for Kroos, both before Madrid and before recent contract extension.
Out of current squad, don't know why managers haven't trusted Blind..... he's a 'stand in' CH or FB at best but a good passer of the ball and intelligent. I think he'd do fine sitting in front of the defence, at least until we find someone better.
Completely agree with this. It's annoyed me for a while. If my memory serves me correctly I thought when he was bought he was earmarked as a DM before being shifted to stand-in LB, then stand-in CB.
He has the attributes to sit in front of the defence distributing the ball intelligently. When Carrick doesn't play there, Blind should. At least until we have a long term replacement. Shouldn't Fosu-Mensah also be considered?
Surely if we were looking at Napoli centre midfielders in the context of a holding controlling midfielder, Jorginho would come to mind over Allan? He plays more like Carrick, in that he's composed on the ball and got a decent passing range.
Here's a video of him:
Why is Wiegl an unachievable target? Dortmund are a selling club.
Why are there threads about controlling midfielders and strikers when defense is quite clearly our biggest weakness? We have Rojo, Jones and Blind playing in defense. It's not even a joke anymore to suggest we may have the weakest defense in the league currently
Usually when the player is at the end of their contract.
It seems to me like there are two types of player we could get, a deep-lying playmaker (eg Weigl) or an energetic defensive midfielder (eg a payr like Kante) who fufill different roles on the pitch.
Which type should we be going for?
Which type should we be going for?