The root of Manutd's problems
- Thread starter devilish
- Start date
Still don't understand why you all feel the need to slate Blanc. He was a bit shakey right at the start. If you take a few seconds to think about it you'll remember that Jaap was a bit shakey at the start also. I had scousers slagging me for us buying a donkey. After the first few (and I mean few) games, Blanc's been outstanding. What you don't see on TV is the way he's organising the defence. Rio is learning from him, John O'Shea definitely is. I've said before, Blanc reminds me of Bobby Moore. And from someone as old as I am there's no higher praise. The problems last year were collective defensive play throughout the team. Read Keano's book about this, he happens to be right. The other problem, which I think we should acknowledge, was that Arsenal were playing rather too well for my liking. This season we've tightened up defensively - the problem's at the other end just now, but that will come. And Arsenal have just lost 5 of their last 6 games I think? Cheer up and get behind the team!!!! 
Yes we're all behind the team. Have been for the last 45 years ! That doesn't preclude us from discussing, fan to fan, the issues of the day and airing our views from time to time even they are a little critical.
As far as Blanc is concerned, my problem is that he's no longer wholly reliable. You're never quite sure when he's going to be beaten for pace or caught out of position or found out for slack marking. Yes he still reads the game well but he 's ponderous and at times indecisive. He's less influential as well and sad to say he really looks too old to last the pace in the cut and thrust of the modern game.
It's a long time ago when I first saw him playing against us for Montpellier in the ECWC back in 1991. I thought at the time what a fantastic CB he was and that he must be the best in Europe. I'm sure the same thoughts were going through Fergie's mind as well because Larry became a bit of an obsession. We didn't really need him at the time because Pally and Bruce were at the height of their powers. When that was no longer the case, Larry was not available for one reason or another. Fergie tried to get him on numerous occasions without success. It was only when his career had reached something of a dead end, sitting on the bench at Inter, that Fergie finally realised his long held obsession by finally securing the services of the man he had admired for ten years.
Yes there are still things to admire and enjoy, but he's very much yesterday's man. Fergie would do well to rather develop and give every opportunity to the Rio/O'Shea partnership than relying on the dwindling qualities of the man he first admired all those years ago and was determined to sign, come what may.
As far as Blanc is concerned, my problem is that he's no longer wholly reliable. You're never quite sure when he's going to be beaten for pace or caught out of position or found out for slack marking. Yes he still reads the game well but he 's ponderous and at times indecisive. He's less influential as well and sad to say he really looks too old to last the pace in the cut and thrust of the modern game.
It's a long time ago when I first saw him playing against us for Montpellier in the ECWC back in 1991. I thought at the time what a fantastic CB he was and that he must be the best in Europe. I'm sure the same thoughts were going through Fergie's mind as well because Larry became a bit of an obsession. We didn't really need him at the time because Pally and Bruce were at the height of their powers. When that was no longer the case, Larry was not available for one reason or another. Fergie tried to get him on numerous occasions without success. It was only when his career had reached something of a dead end, sitting on the bench at Inter, that Fergie finally realised his long held obsession by finally securing the services of the man he had admired for ten years.
Yes there are still things to admire and enjoy, but he's very much yesterday's man. Fergie would do well to rather develop and give every opportunity to the Rio/O'Shea partnership than relying on the dwindling qualities of the man he first admired all those years ago and was determined to sign, come what may.
Three years ago during a serious Italian media tv program, Hector Cuper pointed out a small weakness in Blanc's play that is proving lethal.
Blanc lack of pace, but covers it magnificently thanks to his positioning and experience. But the problem is that when he advances with the ball ( something you need to do regularly in a 4 flat backline) he is easily caught in counter attack
This weakness was discovered and exploited by many teams. And world class managers ( Capello and Lippi) confessed that they had used it to the full.
this weakness is Manutd's main defensive problem at the moment.
Blanc lack of pace, but covers it magnificently thanks to his positioning and experience. But the problem is that when he advances with the ball ( something you need to do regularly in a 4 flat backline) he is easily caught in counter attack
This weakness was discovered and exploited by many teams. And world class managers ( Capello and Lippi) confessed that they had used it to the full.
this weakness is Manutd's main defensive problem at the moment.
Blanc has always been as fast as a tortoise. How come he has achived some much in the game with this " weakness"?
To say blanc is slow and its a weakness is just plain delusion. Even as a lad of twnety he moved with that same speed he has now.
To say blanc is slow and its a weakness is just plain delusion. Even as a lad of twnety he moved with that same speed he has now.
Enough. Just let it bloody go. Thats the fourth thread in less than two weeks that has become 'Blanc is not good enough'. All thanks to devilish ofcource who has brought it up in all four threads.
Larry is pure class. His memory, and teachings, will live on in the likes of Rio, Brown and O'Shea - and they all have pace too.
ps. I'm only following this thread in anticipation of Dans reply to those earlier scathing attacks.... or maybe he's learnt his lesson ?!?
ps. I'm only following this thread in anticipation of Dans reply to those earlier scathing attacks.... or maybe he's learnt his lesson ?!?
Regarding devilish's deconstruction of United's problems. A lot of it is good common sense, but must take some issue about devilish's thoughts on 4-4-2.
Have you been watching the fecking Premiership? United play, with the odd exception, 4-4-2 in the Premiership. There's no good having a go at 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 in Europe, cos it's working. If you haven't noticed, United hace succeeded ONCE in the Champions League using the old 4-4-2 system.
You need a degree of sophistication in Europe. In the Premiership, the form's just not ignited yet.
BTW, agree about Chadwick, he's a fecking loser. Ain't got a fecking clue what he's doing.
Have you been watching the fecking Premiership? United play, with the odd exception, 4-4-2 in the Premiership. There's no good having a go at 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 in Europe, cos it's working. If you haven't noticed, United hace succeeded ONCE in the Champions League using the old 4-4-2 system.
You need a degree of sophistication in Europe. In the Premiership, the form's just not ignited yet.
BTW, agree about Chadwick, he's a fecking loser. Ain't got a fecking clue what he's doing.
Originally posted by MancFanFromManc:
<strong>Larry is pure class. His memory, and teachings, will live on in the likes of Rio, Brown and O'Shea - and they all have pace too.
ps. I'm only following this thread in anticipation of Dans reply to those earlier scathing attacks.... or maybe he's learnt his lesson ?!?
Are you sure about this ? I don't know how much of an influence he is on the pitch. On the training ground and behinmd the scenes maybe. My final thoughts on this are that Blanc was a great player but no more. It's not just about lack of pace - he's always been a little on the pedestrian side, he is no longer completely dependable in any situation. I do not want to see him keeping JOS out of the side because JOS is good enough and therefore old enough for a regular first team place. Besides don't underestimate Rio's influence which is considerable and quite sufficient imo.
Amir if you dont like my posts then just dont read them.
This is a democratic forum where freedom of speech is accepted.
I have written on Manutd's problem and as I see Blanc as a weakness (my opinion)I didn;t went out of the subjecy
Maybe in a land where terrorists invade other ppl's lands and where freedom of speech is hampered by military tanks this cannot be understood
But I am sure than we can understand democracy, cant we Amir?
This is a democratic forum where freedom of speech is accepted.
I have written on Manutd's problem and as I see Blanc as a weakness (my opinion)I didn;t went out of the subjecy
Maybe in a land where terrorists invade other ppl's lands and where freedom of speech is hampered by military tanks this cannot be understood
But I am sure than we can understand democracy, cant we Amir?
We have seen an expert but slow French defense being slaughtered but unexpert forward lines like that of Senegal.
We have seen great gaffers ( some even more succesful than SAF) like Sacchi and Capello pointing the finger on Blanc's weaknesses
I AM NOT AGAINST BLANC, but football has changed. Pace had become predominant in today's football
Neverless there are ways how to utilise Blanc wisely without suffering the setbacks we are currently suffering
Ideally Blanc should be utilised as a sweeper in a fixed 3 central defense or at least he should be ordered not to counter attack. This will prevent him from being caught single footed.
We have seen great gaffers ( some even more succesful than SAF) like Sacchi and Capello pointing the finger on Blanc's weaknesses
I AM NOT AGAINST BLANC, but football has changed. Pace had become predominant in today's football
Neverless there are ways how to utilise Blanc wisely without suffering the setbacks we are currently suffering
Ideally Blanc should be utilised as a sweeper in a fixed 3 central defense or at least he should be ordered not to counter attack. This will prevent him from being caught single footed.
I am certian that Hypia is faster than Blanc and even better.
The solidity that Liverpool rely on majorly comes from
1 An experienced defense where EVERYONE knows his role well and is capable to do it consistantly. The treble team and AC Milan ( in thier golden age ) had it
2 A defensive mentalitity
3 Adequate cover in nearly all position.
4 Everyone knows his role in the team
Manutd lack on these points
why? simple
1 Our defense is filled with players whom every now and then can give you wonderful games but are not consistant ( P Nev and Blanc for example)
Only Silvestre, Gaz, R Ferdinand and O Shea can perform week in week out
2 I dont want a defensive mentality it is not in our nature ( that is why the 4-4-1-1 formation is crap)
3 Adequate cover?? comeon when you have Chadwick covering Becks you are really in deep trouble ( SAF admits that we suffer from strenght in depth sooo aviod to critise me on this issue)
4 Changing players role week in week out will never stablise the team. We have seen Giggs, Veron, Scholes, Beckham, P Nev and Forlan lose form thanks to this merry go round's strategy
Much of Manutd's strenght relied on the understanding between our players, something that we do not possess anymore
The solidity that Liverpool rely on majorly comes from
1 An experienced defense where EVERYONE knows his role well and is capable to do it consistantly. The treble team and AC Milan ( in thier golden age ) had it
2 A defensive mentalitity
3 Adequate cover in nearly all position.
4 Everyone knows his role in the team
Manutd lack on these points
why? simple
1 Our defense is filled with players whom every now and then can give you wonderful games but are not consistant ( P Nev and Blanc for example)
Only Silvestre, Gaz, R Ferdinand and O Shea can perform week in week out
2 I dont want a defensive mentality it is not in our nature ( that is why the 4-4-1-1 formation is crap)
3 Adequate cover?? comeon when you have Chadwick covering Becks you are really in deep trouble ( SAF admits that we suffer from strenght in depth sooo aviod to critise me on this issue)
4 Changing players role week in week out will never stablise the team. We have seen Giggs, Veron, Scholes, Beckham, P Nev and Forlan lose form thanks to this merry go round's strategy
Much of Manutd's strenght relied on the understanding between our players, something that we do not possess anymore
Devilish, your point 4 is what concerns me the most, recently our teams seem to be quite random with everyone out of position. Against Leicester, and yes I know it was only the Worthington Cup, we had O'Shea as a left back, Beckham as a central midfielder, Forlan as a right winger (I don't subscribe to the view that he is a winger just cos he wasn't scoring - even though he is a good crosser of the ball), Phil as a central midfielder etc. Against Maccabi Quinton was a central midfielder too, and when Mads came on it was as a right midfielder! These aren't even mentioning Scholes who IS a central midfielder repeatedly being forced into a forward or striker role which he's not ideally suited to.
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>
Blanc lack of pace, but covers it magnificently thanks to his positioning and experience. But the problem is that when he advances with the ball ( something you need to do regularly in a 4 flat backline) he is easily caught in counter attack
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
That's why we bought Rio.
Look, even if Stam advance with the ball he wouldn't be able to cover back in time. That's what a CB partner supposed to do, to give cover while the other one goes up.
<strong>
this weakness is Manutd's main defensive problem at the moment.</strong><hr></blockquote>
and I guess that's why we have the meanest defence in the league..
We have a so called strong defense ( watch Zalagueb AND M Haifa'S games) because SAF is playing a total defensive formation (4-4-1-1) which is killing our attack
BTW Middlesbrough have a better defense
Grow up man the gaffers critising Blanc have won more than our own SAF.
BTW Middlesbrough have a better defense
Grow up man the gaffers critising Blanc have won more than our own SAF.
BTW spending 30M to cover Blanc's back shows how good the frenchman is
Check on Sacchi and Capello and you will know
That's why we bought Rio
You have said that not me( I was joking)
Let get serious now. I may understand a slow defender but only if he accepts his limitations.
For example you have never seen Pally, Brucie or Hypia running the half pitch with the ball like Blanc. And having Silvestre and G Nev constantly running in the wings our defense is already too much exposed( Im not critisising the full backs its their job to provide added fire power)
Now 1 either Blanc stays at the back for good
Or 2 He should run out of OT.
You have said that not me( I was joking)
Let get serious now. I may understand a slow defender but only if he accepts his limitations.
For example you have never seen Pally, Brucie or Hypia running the half pitch with the ball like Blanc. And having Silvestre and G Nev constantly running in the wings our defense is already too much exposed( Im not critisising the full backs its their job to provide added fire power)
Now 1 either Blanc stays at the back for good
Or 2 He should run out of OT.
Agree with Amir. Guys I didn’t get what this longest thread about. Is Larry or even all our defense line the very root of our problems? Absolutely no. So why is this fierce debate about Blanc? Lets him to play this season (and may be next one), then he’ll be retired.