The root of Manutd's problems

[Amir]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>He's one of the most talented defenders of recent times. He's now 37. You can't argue for a top team to have a 37 year old defender as first choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you also believe in the famous 'if you're good enough - you're old enough? slogan?

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Do you also believe in the famous 'if you're good enough - you're old enough? slogan?</strong><hr></blockquote>
With regards to youngsters, yes, you're building for the future and their pace isn't an issue. Blanc is a stop gap at best, a good one and probably the best available a few days into a new season. He's done very well considering his age, on account of his sheer technical brilliance and world class positioning. But not as well as other players might have, and no doubt about it, his addition was the main reason we lost the title last year.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
How old is Hitzfeld? Why would he want to, he's already managing Bayern where he's been more successful than us.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's the thing about Hitzfeld, he likes to move on once he's succeeded what he came to do. he did the same with Dortmund.

i mentioned in another thread that Hitzfeld's motivation will be winning another trebel with a different team. other than SAF, he's the only other person who's done a trebel of domestic league, domestic cup, and CL.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Kinky Melinky:
<strong>

It's true Dans - you are a twat, you're unfunny, unoriginal, and you strike me as the type of person who just posts replys to get on people's nerves - so perhaps you're a very bored person also ?

You're one of those extremely annoying people who always manages to get on people's nerves. You've written a heck of a lot of crap and have been generally unproductive and disinteresting. Come on, I mean it didn't take a new poster like RUnited long to see this.

To sum it up I'd say you're a dick

There ! That's my piece done

Oh and I'm expecting Dans' come back in the next hour or so. Should be an exciting variety of intelligence and whit </strong><hr></blockquote>

here here!

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
With regards to youngsters, yes, you're building for the future and their pace isn't an issue. Blanc is a stop gap at best, a good one and probably the best available a few days into a new season. He's done very well considering his age, on account of his sheer technical brilliance and world class positioning. But not as well as other players might have, and no doubt about it, his addition was the main reason we lost the title last year.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree to some extent. but you shouldn't say blanc was the main cause. we did have some horrendous displays between Brown and Barthez that i think caused us a lot of confidence at the back. our back 4 always had 1 missing in any game.. i think we somewhat lost focus. it took a while to regain it.

i would add the veron, 4-4-1-1, stam, cole, yorke, forlan, barthez, and of coz SAF himself into the reasons that we lost the title last year...

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
i would add the veron, 4-4-1-1, stam, cole, yorke, forlan, barthez, and of coz SAF himself into the reasons that we lost the title last year...</strong><hr></blockquote>

How was Forlan responsible?

With so many causes I can honestly say I see last season's Premiership disappointment as a team failure, not as that of individuals.

 

[kf]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
With regards to youngsters, yes, you're building for the future and their pace isn't an issue. Blanc is a stop gap at best, a good one and probably the best available a few days into a new season. He's done very well considering his age, on account of his sheer technical brilliance and world class positioning. But not as well as other players might have, and no doubt about it, his addition was the main reason we lost the title last year.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The team lost the title last year, to a very good Arsenal side. Blanc has been exceptional this season - it's much easier to see this when you're at Old Trafford rather than watching on the box. Also, we're not defending any deeper than usual imo. Don't understand why people want to slate Blanc.

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>
The team lost the title last year, to a very good Arsenal side. Blanc has been exceptional this season - it's much easier to see this when you're at Old Trafford rather than watching on the box. Also, we're not defending any deeper than usual imo. Don't understand why people want to slate Blanc.

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


the fans that slate him are ones that haven't seen him play live.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

How was Forlan responsible?

With so many causes I can honestly say I see last season's Premiership disappointment as a team failure, not as that of individuals.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that was my point. it was the team's failure.. not one specifics.. although i would put SAF's decisions to do a lot of things high on the list. first of, for saying he wanted to quit - i think that for a start already got a lot of players, including fans, to lose hope.

forlan was responsible because we have to be able to get more from our substitutes.. he came down in a lot of games and failed to produce.. i honestly think that had he scored half as regularly as Ole we would have atleast finished 2nd in the league and may have actually gone on the final of the CL.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


the fans that slate him are ones that haven't seen him play live.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's very very unfair IMO. you can't blame people for not being near OT enough to go see the game everyday.

TV is not that bad IMO. plus we have analysts who come on TV all day long analysing blanc's game and showing replays of the things he does wrong.

i am absolutely gutted you would say we slate him because we have never seen him in person on the pitch. that's very very discriminating and appauling.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
forlan was responsible because we have to be able to get more from our substitutes.. he came down in a lot of games and failed to produce.. i honestly think that had he scored half as regularly as Ole we would have atleast finished 2nd in the league and may have actually gone on the final of the CL.</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's done all he possibly could when he played against Leverkusen but it wouldn't go it. It also didn't go in for Ole, Ruud, Giggsy, Scholes, etc. So to say that if Diego of all people had done more we'd gone through is wrong.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

He's done all he possibly could when he played against Leverkusen but it wouldn't go it. It also didn't go in for Ole, Ruud, Giggsy, Scholes, etc. So to say that if Diego of all people had done more we'd gone through is wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's what i said, it was the team's fault as a whole.. although his good displays would have definitely helped with the team's confidence on the field. wouldn't you say so? everybody in the team late into the season gave us hopes.. except for forlan.. and maybe veron also.. i'm not pinpointing at anyone in particular.. i'm a big fan of Forlan too.. but i think we have all the rights to have expected more from him.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
TV is not that bad IMO. plus we have analysts who come on TV all day long analysing blanc's game and showing replays of the things he does wrong.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Analysts like Terry Venables who then become managers again and find out that saying things are TV is so much easier than actually getting things done?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Analysts like Terry Venables who then become managers again and find out that saying things are TV is so much easier than actually getting things done?</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's not a good argument. there can be good analysts who suck doing it themselves.. sometimes it's better to see things from outside.. from the bird's eye view.. you see things much more detailed..

venebles got himself sucked in to managing again.. he's not watching TV anymore, he's actualyl doing it.. i think watching gives you much better ideas of things really are..

 

[kf]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
plus we have analysts who come on TV all day long analysing blanc's game and showing replays of the things he does wrong.

i am absolutely gutted you would say we slate him because we have never seen him in person on the pitch. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I didn't say that, I said it was easier to see how good he is when you can see all of the action rather than just a slice of it on TV. And beware of those analysts, most of 'em are scousers you know... I repeat, Blanc has been exceptional.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>
I didn't say that, I said it was easier to see how good he is when you can see all of the action rather than just a slice of it on TV. And beware of those analysts, most of 'em are scousers you know... I repeat, Blanc has been exceptional.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i know blanc has been exceptional.. i agree with that 100%. but, he's only been exceptional for what he's able to do.. honestly, we could have had better.. we could have kept stam.. you know it.. i know it.. we all know it..

i agree blanc has been superb for what he's able to do and i do not blame him for all these mishaps.. that's why i wrote my editorial (long ass post) on SAF.. because i believe it has been SAF all along who miscalculated stuff.. maybe he's got it right now. which will be good for the team and of coz, fine by me! i would like to see them win with style again...

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

that's not a good argument. there can be good analysts who suck doing it themselves.. sometimes it's better to see things from outside.. from the bird's eye view.. you see things much more detailed..

venebles got himself sucked in to managing again.. he's not watching TV anymore, he's actualyl doing it.. i think watching gives you much better ideas of things really are..</strong><hr></blockquote>


TV's ok.. but u don't get the WHOLE picture.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i know blanc has been exceptional.. i agree with that 100%. but, he's only been exceptional for what he's able to do.. honestly, we could have had better.. we could have kept stam.. you know it.. i know it.. we all know it..
</strong><hr></blockquote>

And then we might have said 'oh god, what a shame we didn't sell this player a year back'. Thats football.

As far as I am concerned, Blanc is superb and I wouldn't pick Stam over him. Not the current Stam. The one of 1998/99 i'd pick over any centerhalf in the world, just like I'd pick that Yorkie over any striker in the world.

But thats history.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


TV's ok.. but u don't get the WHOLE picture.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i know you can't exactly compare, but there always the obvious that stand out for everyone to see. some see it deeper, some it for what they are..

i think terry has been a terrfic analyst because he's been there and done that also.. so he KNOWS what he's talkin about.. gives him more creditability when he talks.. it's the same with othr analysts.. and also commentators.. like andy gray..

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

And then we might have said 'oh god, what a shame we didn't sell this player a year back'. Thats football.

As far as I am concerned, Blanc is superb and I wouldn't pick Stam over him. Not the current Stam. The one of 1998/99 i'd pick over any centerhalf in the world, just like I'd pick that Yorkie over any striker in the world.

But thats history.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i know it is history.. but you can look at this and hope something is done in the near future before it goes too far.. we're already going to lose blanc at the end of this season.. have we heard anything about his replacements? o'shea? i don't think he's ready to take up 60 games a year..i will maintain this until i see atleast 1 whole year of good form coming from him. we talked so much about brown and look at him.. on and off depending on his mood i reckon. and then the injury too.. i don't think we can exactly make an injury-prone player our first team player can we?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i know you can't exactly compare, but there always the obvious that stand out for everyone to see. some see it deeper, some it for what they are..


</strong><hr></blockquote>

The fact is, most of the fans that go to OT, recognise that Blanc's been excellent for us..

However, notice the ones that slate him....... all of them watch United on the box...


Coincidence?

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
i know it is history.. but you can look at this and hope something is done in the near future before it goes too far.. we're already going to lose blanc at the end of this season.. have we heard anything about his replacements? o'shea? i don't think he's ready to take up 60 games a year..i will maintain this until i see atleast 1 whole year of good form coming from him. we talked so much about brown and look at him.. on and off depending on his mood i reckon.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd still back O'Shea and Brown to battle for the place next to Rio, rather than going and spending big sums on another centerhalf. It's not first priority.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

The fact is, most of the fans that go to OT, recognise that Blanc's been excellent for us..

However, notice the ones that slate him....... all of them watch United on the box...


Coincidence?</strong><hr></blockquote>

there are fans like me who watch on the box and not slate him too y'know.. i don't slate blanc.. i like the guy.. like i said, i think he's done the best he can.. but the best he could was not good enough for us last season.

no one would slate blanc this season, except for devillish. but the facts are there, you can't afford to have other players covering for the slow center back. it's supposed to be the heart of our game, not a position we have to worry about all the time.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

there are fans like me who watch on the box and not slate him too y'know.. i don't slate blanc.. i like the guy.. like i said, i think he's done the best he can.. but the best he could was not good enough for us last season.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


er..... he was excellent last season. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

daft cnut.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

I'd still back O'Shea and Brown to battle for the place next to Rio, rather than going and spending big sums on another centerhalf. It's not first priority.</strong><hr></blockquote>

we were discussing this in another thread.. i and some other dude who started the topic, suggested that we need another 30+ years old player in the team.. someone who wouldn't mind the rotation thing we do to help develop o'shea and brown.. if we don't have this extra man i think we'll be in trouble for atleast 1 more year..

can we afford that though is the question i'm asking myself. i honestly would not mind seeing o'shea and brown making it, but i don't want us to lose more games the scoushit and the arse.. it's too painful..

btw, the choices came down to Thuram and Ayala.. both over 30 years old.. Ayala will become free next summer while Thuram would cost around 8-10m.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


er..... he was excellent last season. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

daft cnut.</strong><hr></blockquote>

not for the first 6 months.. are you sure you went the games? that first 6 months lost us a lot of points and mental strength.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

not for the first 6 months.. are you sure you went the games? that first 6 months lost us a lot of points and mental strength.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes i did go to some in the first six months.

u are talking bollox..

he was EXCELLENT after a couple of months.


sure u ain't an ABU? ..just come outta closet. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

yes i did go to some in the first six months.

u are talking bollox..

he was EXCELLENT after a couple of months.


sure u ain't an ABU? ..just come outta closet. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

i'm not an ABU.. trust me i wouldn't be making suggestions as to how i think we can win the title back. if i was in fact an ABU, i would have loved to see Blanc here for 2-3 more years though.. <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />

the thing is.. you know he went AWOL in a lot of goals we lost last season.. yes he was good.. good in his own potential - which was NOT and i repeat NOT good enough for United.

i don't argue about his potential and ability. i like him. but i don't think at 36 he could give us what we're lookin for. why do you think we need O'shea this season? why do you think blanc himself said he would only want to play about 30-40 games this season?

same case as SAF IMO. who's to argue with them when they themselves say they're not up for it anymore?

 

[giggzy]

you're a miserable cnut.


there's no way in hell, you're a united fan. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

 

[RUnited]

sure blanc can pull off good games with less competitive sides.. but against the likes of scoushit and the arse.. we stand very small chance against the lightening speed of owen and henry.. we're get caught out. and if we don't lose goals it will be the good work of rio, gaz, and barthez who keep protecting blanc's limitations.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>you're a miserable cnut.


there's no way in hell, you're a united fan. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

you can't find valid reasons to argue with me and you call me a cnut and an ABU.. great..

first you discriminate fans watching football on TV then you call genuine fans who would like to see better things at United a cnut. fecking great.

i'm gonna stop now, i think i'm wasting time with you.. you clearly have your heads stuck on cloud 9 where we're not anymore.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>sure blanc can pull off good games with less competitive sides.. but against the likes of scoushit and the arse.. we stand very small chance against the lightening speed of owen and henry.. we're get caught out. and if we don't lose goals it will be the good work of rio, gaz, and barthez who keep protecting blanc's limitations.</strong><hr></blockquote>

oi abu.

when did owen do well against blanc?


the fact is blanc had him in his pocket.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

you can't find valid reasons to argue with me and you call me a cnut and an ABU.. great..

first you discriminate fans watching football on TV then you call genuine fans who would like to see better things at United a cnut. fecking great.

i'm gonna stop now, i think i'm wasting time with you.. you clearly have your heads stuck on cloud 9 where we're not anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

good, now feck off.

kin miserable cnut.

 

[RUnited]

last thing, i hope you get a good seat in OT this weekend when Blanc vs Anelka. we're gonna win this game, but Barthez will have to save the day. i see blanc getting caught out a few times this game. he will get his deserved 7 or 8 for the rating because he has tried, but he won't stop anelka.

he tries really hard and will always get A+ for his efforts, but if it's enough for United is a different issue entirely.

chadwick gives his all to united.. is he making it? did irwin stay on with the team? why didn't we give him more opportunities when he was clearly fit and the best left back we've ever had? wasn't it because was old and was getting caught out at times?

the point is at United, we cannot afford to get caught out even once. especially at the moment.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

oi abu.

when did owen do well against blanc?


the fact is blanc had him in his pocket.</strong><hr></blockquote>


owen on a good day will get through anyone. he's the key reason for why liverpool is here today.

if we face liverpool on owen's good day i really wouldn't want to be in OT to watch blanc get an onslaught. i only pray RVN and forlan will get a couple past dudek for us to win the game.

the only reason why i can tolerate this as a fan is because of my faith in our players and the team.. i know blanc will do his best and i will be satisfied with his performance.. but like i said, his best doesn't have to mean United's best.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by kf:
<strong>
I didn't say that, I said it was easier to see how good he is when you can see all of the action rather than just a slice of it on TV. And beware of those analysts, most of 'em are scousers you know... I repeat, Blanc has been exceptional.</strong><hr></blockquote>
From the games I've been to I've always wanted to watch it on tele later to see what those little people over there actually did, and to see who it actually was, and whether there really was contact etc. You get to see off the ball play better, though the different camera views on sky interactive are making this less of a problem.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
chadwick gives his all to united.. is he making it? did irwin stay on with the team? why didn't we give him more opportunities when he was clearly fit and the best left back we've ever had? wasn't it because was old and was getting caught out at times?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The point is, Irwin was clearly past his best and on the downhill. Is Blanc? I'd be a fool to say that at 37 he's as good as he's ever been, but he's not very far. He never had great pace which didn't prevent him from being one of the best centerhalves around, even at 35 when he's won Euro 2000.

 

[Im red]

Fact is all our players try their best but some are getting too old like Blanc(who has had some good performances) who is really not as good as he once was. Diego will get better with time he is gonna be very good in my opinion. We simply need to get back to the system that seen us win the league by Christmas and do the treble, and that is 4-4-2. That is our style we attack, we eat our opponents that is what Manchester United is for me. please can we have our 4-4-2 back? 4-4-1-1 is ok away in the champions league.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Giggzy, stop talking out of your arse. Blanc is nowhere near as loved as Jip Japp, and doesn't have his name sung. Rio does now though. Blanc is a great player, like Irwin, but age catches up with you, and the lack of pace affects the shape of the team. Modern centre backs need pace. Blanc was a stop gap, nothing more, and wasn't expected to last another year (he was only offered a one year contract initially).

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong> Blanc was a stop gap, nothing more, and wasn't expected to last another year (he was only offered a one year contract initially).</strong><hr></blockquote>

United don't offer old players long term deals, just like we didn't give Teddy a two-year deal. Blanc intended to retire last summer, otherwise I think Fergie would have been happy to give him a 2-year deal originally.