The Road Trip Draft R1: Jim Beam vs Gio

[Gio]

Seems a bit mental that the opposition manager is happy to leave Zidane to his own devices, with Voronin apparently trying to cover him and Baggio. It's hard to forget just how incredible Zinedine Zidane was at Euro 2000. It's probably the only tournament since 1986 when the top player just stood out head and shoulders above everyone else. And it was a high quality tournament, perhaps the best of the modern era, with several of the traditionally strong European nations in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland and France really peaking and going at it full pelt. Even then Zidane was still absolutely fantastic - and that's coming from someone who thought he was a little over-rated compared to Rivaldo, Figo and Ronaldo before that summer.

The compilation video is worth a watch, if only to basque in his unparalleled balance and poise on the ball. I think he's well placed to shine in this game, with the Matthaus/Rijkaard axis behind him offering the greatest possible platform. Look at how dominant he was when ahead of box-to-box machines like Vieira and Davids. Imagine the impact when you ratchet up that box-to-box presence another notch or two. Not only that, a wee shimmy and he can slip a pass through to Baggio, Jairzinho or Suarez no less, all of whom know the whereabouts of the onion bag.

 

[Jim Beam]

Seems a bit mental that the opposition manager is happy to leave Zidane to his own devices, with Voronin apparently trying to cover him and Baggio. It's hard to forget just how incredible Zinedine Zidane was at Euro 2000.

Mental is that you don't know that Vasovic is fast mate

I would never pick on a player I know shit about.

 

[Gio]

I watch footage of Milan these days and find that part of the side quite boring.

Boring but effective they were. Best way to beat a Cruyff team anyway.

I disagree with the notion that Rijkaard was a better centre-back than defensive midfielder. He was excellent there and I liked his Euro '88 performances a lot. But his all-round game was best opened up in midfield IMO. He was unbelievably complete. Technically excellent - the video shows his range of tools in his locker; physically dominant and perfect as a two-way midfielder; and 'tactically perfect' as Cruyff described him. Cruyff waxes lyrical in Ajax, Barcelona, Cruyff about how Rijkaard was his main man, whose tactical intelligence was miles ahead of everyone else, and was great at adapting his game to the requirements of each challenge.

 

[Don Alfredo]

@Gio That video showed some great goals and a few good passes. His technique seems to be excellent indeed. Do you think he is a better passer than Bastian? I tend to think that Bastian is actually the central midfielder with the best / most consistent passing ability on the pitch.

By the way I see no issue with Matthaus and Zidane in one midfield. I like it very much because Matthaus gives you the goals and directness which Zizou lacked sometimes. I was not sure about Zidane and Baggio in one side if both are in central areas? Baggio may have to drift to the left much more. Especially with Suarez always occupying the central channel as well. Suarez could drift to the right, but it makes no sense because Jairzinho is always there.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I’d back the defensively-focused Gamarra to handle Stoichkov better than someone like Cafu would - think it’s weird you see it the other way round.

If that was true then we would see a lot more tactics with CBs playing as defensive FB against top inside forwards. But it doesn't work like that which is why we never see top managers do this unless they have no choice. If it did work then Belgium wouldn't have had so many problems the last three tournaments when they play with 3-4 CBs in defense.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Excellent team Jim. Some really good routes to upgrades as well in case you end up winning.

For Gio, I though the Suarez pick was an odd one and while he is good at bringing everyone into the game and being unselfish, it just looks a bit too crowded in same areas in the final third.

Thought Zizou, Baggio and Jairzinho was enough firepower up top with Zidane playing the false 9.

I half expected Didi and Zizou to start together with Zizou in a really advanced role in a front 3, but was skeptical after Gamarra was picked. Rijkaard, Didi, Matthaus and Zizou sounds tasty both from a football and discussion perspective.

While the Paraguay 1998 reference is an expert point, you would still expect someone helping out that right handed zone or it looks really disjointed with Gamarra and Jairzinho at two different extremes.

 

[Gio]

JAIRZINHO - POTENTIAL MATCH WINNER?

There is no more indelible mark of a player’s reputation than the World Cup. Starring on the grandest stage writes a name in legend, despite what else might happens in a player’s career. In turn, many a star player has shriveled under the glare of the greatest show on earth. 

In any country other than Brazil, Jairzinho would be a venerated legend. Only two players have ever scored in each match at a finals: Uruguay’s Alcides Ghiggia scored four in four in 1950, but Jairzinho scored seven in six in 1970.

Jairzinho, first a winger and later a striker, played at three finals tournaments. But Mexico '70, the first finals to be televised in colour, dominates his World Cup story. From Brazil's opening match against Czechoslovakia, to the final at the Azteca, where he struck his team’s third goal to stake Brazil to an unassailable 3-1 lead against Italy, his goals powered his nation’s third World Cup triumph. It was a perfect record in a tournament still recognised as the high point in World Cup history.  

Playing for what is often considered the finest team in the tournament’s history actually diminishes Jairzinho’s standing. He competes for the limelight with fabled teammates like Pele, Gerson, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto and Tostao, even if none of them matched his scoring feats.  

When people talk about the greatest forwards in history, they never remember him. It seems that he was only a forward that had his moment under the sun just during the 1970 World Cup, but he was much more than that.

Jairzinho was a bit like Neymar, playing from the side to the centre and striking with precision. He had speed, strength and a lot of skill. When we played him a long ball, he was spectacular. He bumped, gained his space with his body [see how he can outmuscle Junior to get shots or crosses away], and still managed to shoot with skill.

His six goals in Mexico were delivered through a wide range of finishes, from the delicate chip in the 2-1 win against Romania that followed a surging run past three defenders, to a power drive that beat England goalkeeper Gordon Banks -- something Pele had failed to do with a header earlier (see video below).

After playing as a 21-year-old at a 1966 finals where twice-consecutive winners Brazil disappointingly surrendered their crown, Jairzinho had replaced the great Garrincha on the right flank by 1970. The two were very different players: Whereas Garrincha weaved tricky magic on the touchline, Jairzinho was direct, always looking to be on the end of passing moves. Here you can see him relishing the type of incisive passes that the likes of Zidane and Baggio will serve up in behind Junior.

Jairzinho was not a crack. But he was a powerful and rapid winger who was brilliant.

His goal in the 1970 final came at a vital juncture. Gerson had given Brazil a 2-1 lead after taking a lay-off from Jairzinho who had run at Facchetti, but a jittery defence was living in fear of Italy’s sharp attackers. When Pele flicked on in the 71st minute, Jairzinho appeared on the scene, running at a breathtaking pace beyond Facchetti and the rest of Italy’s defenders. At the last, his touch evaded him, but the ball still squeaked into the net. Jairzinho’s momentum had taken it there; he achieved his perfect goal-scoring record with an imperfect finish.  

 

[Jim Beam]

JAIRZINHO - POTENTIAL MATCH WINNER?

Nope

 

[Gio]

If that was true then we would see a lot more tactics with CBs playing as defensive FB against top inside forwards. But it doesn't work like that which is why we never see top managers do this unless they have no choice. If it did work then Belgium wouldn't have had so many problems the last three tournaments when they play with 3-4 CBs in defense.

I’m not sure what problems these are. Belgium reached the semi final of the World Cup where they were only stopped by a completely stacked France side. And one of their key strengths was how solid they were at the back, particularly with Vertonghen shutting things down. Yeah it would have been nice if they had Carlos and Cafu dominating their flanks but instead they turned having Vertonghen into a strength. It’s pretty standard to have a tucked in defender on one side and a more expansive full back on the other. Look at Djalma/Nilton (behind Garrincha), Brown/Evra (behind Ronaldo), Ivanovic/Azpilicueta (more defensive than we have but still a title winning partnership), etc.

Anyway you need to look at the defence in the round. Both our centre-backs are tidy on the ball with Moore in particular the most expansive passer at the back on either side. Then the perennially under-estimated Marcelo has the best touch and feet of any of the 8 defenders on the park.

 

[Gio]

Nope

Thanks for your reasoned contribution. Is this part of the new draft thread debating tactic we’re seeing of persistent opposition leading to several pages of uninsightful back and fore fluff?

 

[Jim Beam]

I will admit there is something absolutely irresistible when it comes to Cruyff and that I'm no objective when it comes to his influence and mark on the game. A manager on the pitch, a player so influential that you wouldn't know whether to start from him as a person, player or a manager. I firmly believe that the idea of "total football" without Johan as great Michels was would never exist.

Worth a read if you catch time.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/johan-cruyff-icon

The style they invented is now known as ‘total football’. “We never called it that. That came from the English,” said Ajax’s outside-right Sjaak Swart. It was a game of rapid one-touch passing, and players endlessly swapping positions in search of space. Every player had to think like a playmaker. Even the keeper was regarded as the man who started attacks, a sort of outfield player who happened to wear gloves. Wingers and overlapping full-backs kept the field wide. Cruyff could go where he liked, conducting the orchestra with constant improvisation. The world first noticed in 1966, when Ajax beat Liverpool 5-1 on a night so shrouded with mist that hardly anyone saw.

His personality was so outsized that Michels hired not one but two psychologists to understand him.

Cruyff rethought everything from scratch, without caring about tradition. His greatest goal ever was a case in point. Ajax were playing a friendly against an amateur side, and there were no cameras, but what seems to have happened is that Cruyff was advancing on goal when the keeper came out to confront him. Cruyff turned and began running back with the ball towards his own half. The keeper pursued him until the halfway line, where he realised that Cruyff no longer had the ball. At some point he had backheeled it into the net without breaking stride.

In his last years at Barcelona, Cruyff grew ever more radical. He thought about giving a defender a pair of gloves and putting him in goal, so as to improve the passing from the back

Just some bits, but everything about the man is simply remarkable. Not purely attached to this game, but have to put it out there.


Do love that he goes head to head against another legend of the game in Bobby Moore who is probably (scrap that), who is the best defender the world has ever seen for me.

 

[Jim Beam]

Thanks for your reasoned contribution. Is this part of the new draft thread debating tactic we’re seeing of persistent opposition leading to several pages of uninsightful back and fore fluff?

Nah, was actually just stating my opinion. Sorry if it bothers you, but I don't think Jairzinho can win this match, in fact, I think he is the very downfall of the whole set-up where he is not likely to track back, leaving Gamarra on the open and constant bombing of Cruyff and Stoichkov on that side.

As for the uninsightful back and forth fluff, the constant bashing of my midfield being 2 levels below yours based on individual standing in the game and not taking into account the whole system is also not really meaningful at all. Hope this helps.

 

[Gio]

Nah, was actually just stating my opinion. Sorry if it bothers you, but I don't think Jairzinho can win this match, in fact, I think he is the very downfall of the whole set-up where he is not likely to track back, leaving Gamarra on the open and constant bombing of Cruyff and Stoichkov on that side.

As for the uninsightful back and forth fluff, the constant bashing of my midfield being 2 levels below yours based on individual standing in the game and not taking into account the whole system is also not really meaningful at all. Hope this helps.

By the same token I don’t see Stoichkov working back either which leaves Junior exposed to Jairzinho.

The notion that Cruyff and Stoichkov will double up on Gamarra whilst Moore, Santamaria, Rijkaard and Matthaus stand around twiddling their thumbs doesn’t really stack up. What will happen is the team will shift across, which is what happens when the ball is on one side and there’s an attempted overload. Moore will come across to support Gamarra, while Matthaus and Rijkaard will shuttle along as well. That’s all fairly standard practice for any defensive unit worth it’s salt.

 

[Jim Beam]

By the same token I don’t see Stoichkov working back either which leaves Junior exposed to Jairzinho.

The notion that Cruyff and Stoichkov will double up on Gamarra whilst Moore, Santamaria, Rijkaard and Matthaus stand around twiddling their thumbs doesn’t really stack up. What will happen is the team will shift across, which is what happens when the ball is on one side and there’s an attempted overload. Moore will come across to support Gamarra, while Matthaus and Rijkaard will shuttle along as well. That’s all fairly standard practice for any defensive unit worth it’s salt.

And as a result of what you are doing, we'll immediately switch the ball on Gullit side or to the upcoming midfielder. I don't mean to do overloads just to have Gamarra exposed, the very idea is to stretch and move your defense around so the rest of the team can benefit.

 

[Gio]

And as a result of what you are doing, we'll immediately switch the ball on Gullit side or to the upcoming midfielder. I don't mean to do overloads just to have Gamarra exposed, the very idea is to stretch and move your defense around so the rest of the team can benefit.

You can’t immediately switch the ball like that when the opposition is compact and leaving you no space. Best hope is for it to be recirculated in a U-shape back via your defence and out to the right.

 

[Jim Beam]

You can’t immediately switch the ball like that when the opposition is compact and leaving you no space. Best hope is for it to be recirculated in a U-shape back via your defence and out to the right.

Cruyff can't switch to the other flank immediately? That's a news for me. Even if by your theory goes back to my midfield (not defense) it will go to the other flank pretty quickly.

 

[Gio]

Cruyff can't switch to the other flank immediately? That's a news for me. Even if by your theory goes back to my midfield (not defense) it will go to the other flank pretty quickly.

Not under pressure from Moore / Matthaus / whoever.

 

[harms]

Regarding the midfield battle I have perhaps a bit self-contradictory opinion that, while Rijkaard/Matthäus/Zidane is, without argument, a superior unit man to man, it won't be able to dominate Beam's trio (even if we discount Cruyff/Gullit/Vasovic/Junior joining in), because it's in the nature of Beam's players to negate other side's superiority. Same way how Robson levelled up his game to match France's carre magique, for example — he wasn't a better player than Platini and I'm not sure if I'd take him over Tigana (probably would, but only just), he was vastly outnumbered, but he was able, at the same time, elevate his game and drag the others to his level. He did not dominate them, but his quality was enough to make it a fair fight — which is what I expect to happen here.

I prefer Rijkaard - Matthäus as an all-powerful 2 man midfield personally, but I would be lying if I'd said that, given the chance, I wouldn't pair them with an all-time great number 10.

 

[The Red Viper]

Damn.

I expect Hristo to annihilate Gamarra but I really liked rest of Gio's team.

 

[harms]

I think this is third or fourth time I’m opening this thread to vote for JB but ending up doing nothing. It’s so easy to imagine Rijkaard and Matthäus completely neutralising that space in front of his defense and a genius of Baggio or Zidane deciding the game on the other side of the pitch. But so is imagining Cruyff taking everything in his hands and orchestrating Gio’s defeat through that vulnerable zone on the right (his left), by himself or through his disciples.

Gamarra's performance in 1998 was very good, but I'd still see him as a relative weakness, considering the attacking talent present. His success against Stoichkov's Bulgaria in the same tournament isn't really relevant, since Stoichkov was way past his peak by them.

The thing is, I can't decide if in 10 games it's 5 wins for JB and 5 wins for Gio (let's saw that draw isn't an option) or 6/4 wins respectively. If Gio goes through and gets lucky in his first reinforcement round, he'll be practically unbeatable.

 

[harms]

I expect Hristo to annihilate Gamarra but I really liked rest of Gio's team.

I think that Achilles' heel is an appropriate idiom here
You should probably delete the first part, since we're not supposed to reveal the score (or hint towards it). I didn't know how the game was going, for example.

 

[Indnyc]

I think this is third or fourth time I’m opening this thread to vote for JB but ending up doing nothing. It’s so easy to imagine Rijkaard and Matthäus completely neutralising that space in front of his defense and a genius of Baggio or Zidane deciding the game on the other side of the pitch. But so is imagining Cruyff taking everything in his hands and orchestrating Gio’s defeat through that vulnerable zone on the right (his left), by himself or through his disciples.

Gamarra's performance in 1998 was very good, but I'd still see him as a relative weakness, considering the attacking talent present. His success against Stoichkov's Bulgaria in the same tournament isn't really relevant, since Stoichkov was way past his peak by them.

The thing is, I can't decide if in 10 games it's 5 wins for JB and 5 wins for Gio (let's saw that draw isn't an option) or 6/4 wins respectively. If Gio goes through and gets lucky in his first reinforcement round, he'll be practically unbeatable.

The way first round matches are going Gio had a pick between arguably 2 GOAT right backs

 

[Moby]

Regarding the midfield battle I have perhaps a bit self-contradictory opinion that, while Rijkaard/Matthäus/Zidane is, without argument, a superior unit man to man, it won't be able to dominate Beam's trio (even if we discount Cruyff/Gullit/Vasovic/Junior joining in), because it's in the nature of Beam's players to negate other side's superiority. Same way how Robson levelled up his game to match France's carre magique, for example — he wasn't a better player than Platini and I'm not sure if I'd take him over Tigana (probably would, but only just), he was vastly outnumbered, but he was able, at the same time, elevate his game and drag the others to his level. He did not dominate them, but his quality was enough to make it a fair fight — which is what I expect to happen here.

I prefer Rijkaard - Matthäus as an all-powerful 2 man midfield personally, but I would be lying if I'd said that, given the chance, I wouldn't pair them with an all-time great number 10.

Yes, this is what I alluded with Bastian having that warrior mentality in him to take on as big a proposition as this one and fight till the end. In terms of quality I personally don't regard him much below someone like Matthaus anyway, which brings me to what I was going to ask.

How do people especially the German posters in here view Matthaus and Bastian in terms of everything they have achieved on both club and country level. After all, they share one common thing and that is dominating a GOAT level player in a WC final, although Bastian finished the job he had in his hand. Matthaus is of course the usual name taken as the GOAT box to box CM and of course he has tremendous pedigree. However Bastian's back to back treble winning and World Cup winning exploits in 2013 and 2014 do put him on a very high level given how integral he was to those campaigns especially the WC final. Technically I take Bastian as the better passer and more versatile having been a winger during his early career and similarly able to defend out wide and in the middle with Matthaus being the more direct marauding presence with a quality goal threat. Pretty close overall if I'm being honest.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Yes, this is what I alluded with Bastian having that warrior mentality in him to take on as big a proposition as this one and fight till the end. In terms of quality I personally don't regard him much below someone like Matthaus anyway, which brings me to what I was going to ask.

How do people especially the German posters in here view Matthaus and Bastian in terms of everything they have achieved on both club and country level. After all, they share one common thing and that is dominating a GOAT level player in a WC final, although Bastian finished the job he had in his hand. Matthaus is of course the usual name taken as the GOAT box to box CM and of course he has tremendous pedigree. However Bastian's back to back treble winning and World Cup winning exploits in 2013 and 2014 do put him on a very high level given how integral he was to those campaigns especially the WC final. Technically I take Bastian as the better passer and more versatile having been a winger during his early career and similarly able to defend out wide and in the middle with Matthaus being the more direct marauding presence with a quality goal threat. Pretty close overall if I'm being honest.

Lothar is the better player no questions asked. Bastian was never the best player in the world, he was just the best CM in the world between Xavi and Modric. International fans have his world cup heroics in their minds and we Germans love him for that, but his peak level was 2013 for sure. I think Lothar is the best midfielder ever and there are quite a few guys who are between Lothar and Bastian.

The great thing about Bastian though is that he is among the most complete CM I know. People like to call Lothar the most complete CM ever, but I don't believe he was an elite playmaker in the mould of Xavi or Falcao. Bastian is not the greatest in one category, but he is unique in the sense that he is a genuine playmaker, the centre piece of his teams, all the while he is still very good defensively. I would call him more complete than Xavi or Falcao for sure. Redondo is the one which peak is higher in terms of "elite playmaking" plus "elite DM ability", just his body of work is maybe a bit weaker because of his national team career.

Still I can't put him too high up because he wasn't that good. More than half a dozen CM's reached a higher peak level than him, look at players like Keane, Robson, Luis Suarez etc. He would probably not even make it into Germany's All-Time XI.

As midfielder rankings in Germany go, it is

1. Lothar
2. Breitner
3. Bastian

With Netzer and Overath counting as #10s of course.

So, to conclude, Bastian is not even close to being the greatest midfielder ever (= being Lothar). Yet I like how you put it that he will always find a way to battle the opposition. I think it depends on the tactics and if he is part of a great midfield with someone like Voronin, you can expect him to hold his own against any opposition.

Well, that reads a bit confusing, I hope my point became clear

 

[2mufc0]

Surprised there has been very little discussion of Litamanen playing in a 3 man midfield here.

 

[harms]

As midfielder rankings in Germany goes, it is

1. Lothar
2. Breitner
3. Bastian

With Netzer and Overath counting as #10s of course.

What's your opinion on Schuster by the way, in terms of those rankings? Even though it's hard to compare him to those three stylistically, of course. Not having an international career aside from that enigmatic Euros (and only 2 games at that) significantly influenced his reputation, obviously, but I have been watching Barca's games from the 80's and boy, what a player he was

 

[Jim Beam]

Surprised there has been very little discussion of Litamanen playing in a 3 man midfield here.

I have put the post before and will copy it again.

Jari Litmanen

Why? And if has to play, why on that specific position? Because he is absolutely perfect for this system.

Jari Litmanen was a key component of big Ajax side. The team trumped all others and there was no room for the roaming nomad. Each player had their role, and they were expected to sacrifice themselves for the team

Ajax’s number 10 had a unique role, offering the first line of defence by pressing the back line and midfield. Dutch football writers Kormelink and Seeverens believed that Litmanen “had to set an example by pursuing his opponent”. It meant that Jari’s abilities were, at first, somewhat stifled due to his defensive duties.

Putting Litmanen in the team I'm gaining:

- The player who is brilliant in harassing and pressing the opponent

- The player who is willing to sacrifice his ego for the team and play the role his teams need in order to win

- Brilliant playmaking ability which can find the open teammate at any given time split the defense or just keep possession if there are no gaps at a certain time and try again

- Fantastic movement and scoring ability which will see him push forward when Cruyff drops deeper and get him into scoring positions around or inside the area

Because of this set of skills, not only does he has to play in this team, he might easily win the game for us.


Will be honest, Litmanen position was inspired by @harms and @Šjor Bepo playing him in a pretty similar role against Moby in Roulette draft. Personally, I loved how they used him there and think that this tactic with Cruyff elevates him even more. Can see some people having an issue as he was seen more as a number 10, second striker, but he really often dropped deep and organize the game from behind and than just burst forward to finish the moves.

For example:

 

[Don Alfredo]

What's your opinion on Schuster by the way, in terms of those rankings? Even though it's hard to compare him to those three stylistically, of course. Not having an international career aside from that enigmatic Euros (and only 2 games at that) significantly influenced his reputation, obviously, but I have been watching Barca's games from the 80's and boy, what a player he was

He is not comparable to the players above. He's seen as a #10 in Germany and only became that kind of deeper midfield general in his late 30s at Leverkusen. He is comparable to Netzer or Overath, I like to think he is behind Netzer in terms of talent and behind both in terms of career achievements. We are really getting into fine margins here, especially that "talent" aspect could be discussed to death.

I did a post a few months ago where I said how the standing of players with a lesser NT career is suffering big time here in Germany. I think he is more appreciated among spaniards, draft managers and Argentinian cokeheads.

 

[harms]

He is not comparable to the players above. He's seen as a #10 in Germany and only became that kind of deeper midfield general in his late 30s at Leverkusen. He is comparable to Netzer or Overath...

...
I think he is more appreciated among spaniards, draft managers and Argentinian cokeheads.

Oh, okay. Yeah, it's understandable that his career in Spain, including his positional transformation, went pretty much unnoticed in Germany.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I’m not sure what problems these are. Belgium reached the semi final of the World Cup where they were only stopped by a completely stacked France side. And one of their key strengths was how solid they were at the back, particularly with Vertonghen shutting things down. Yeah it would have been nice if they had Carlos and Cafu dominating their flanks but instead they turned having Vertonghen into a strength. It’s pretty standard to have a tucked in defender on one side and a more expansive full back on the other. Look at Djalma/Nilton (behind Garrincha), Brown/Evra (behind Ronaldo), Ivanovic/Azpilicueta (more defensive than we have but still a title winning partnership), etc.

Anyway you need to look at the defence in the round. Both our centre-backs are tidy on the ball with Moore in particular the most expansive passer at the back on either side. Then the perennially under-estimated Marcelo has the best touch and feet of any of the 8 defenders on the park.

I think Belgium was noticeably affected by losing Meunier for the France match. I think a side loses more than it gain when using CBs at FB . that's why that side, despite being so stacked elsewhere on the pitch, always seems to play with an Achilles Heel. There are just too many ways elite players can exploit makeshift options like CB at FB at the highest level that this is why we don't see it happen except in cases like Belgium where they don't have more FBs.

 

[harms]

13:6, wow! I understood from the comments that @Jim Beam was leading, but would've never thought just by how much.
I had both @Gio and @Arbitrium as potential draft winners

Although when you think of it, the drafts are more than often won by teams that are originally unbalanced (but can be significantly improved by 1-2 picks in the reinforcements), so if Gio and Arbitrium would've made it through the first round, they would've definitely been draft favourites (with Djalma/Cafu and van Basten/Zidane/Baggio respectively).

 

[Deleted member 101472]

13:6, wow! I understood from the comments that @Jim Beam was leading, but would've never thought just by how much.
I had both @Gio and @Arbitrium as potential draft winners

Although when you think of it, the drafts are more than often won by teams that are originally unbalanced (but can be significantly improved by 1-2 picks in the reinforcements), so if Gio and Arbitrium would've made it through the first round, they would've definitely been draft favourites (with Djalma/Cafu and van Basten/Zidane/Baggio respectively).

Gio is almost always a draft favourite, I just wanted a semi final!

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I voted for jim Beam in this game because I can see all of gio’s players doing just fine and what’s expected of them, but I see cruyff elevating someone like litmanen to such a scintillating level that I think the guys in gio’s team would be in for a shock.

 

[Jim Beam]

13:6, wow! I understood from the comments that @Jim Beam was leading, but would've never thought just by how much.
I had both @Gio and @Arbitrium as potential draft winners

Although when you think of it, the drafts are more than often won by teams that are originally unbalanced (but can be significantly improved by 1-2 picks in the reinforcements), so if Gio and Arbitrium would've made it through the first round, they would've definitely been draft favourites (with Djalma/Cafu and van Basten/Zidane/Baggio respectively).

The draws are lottery also. I got lucky in terms that his only relative weak spot was where my strongest one was. As you said Achilles' heel... When you go into these all-time draft games, it is pretty hard to separate so such thing can prevail making the score unfair in the end.

Brilliant team from @Gio as usual.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Litmanen's an interesting player from a career perspective. His career peak in European tournaments can go head to head with any other Attacking midfielder/supporting forward from his generation, but obviously injuries badly hampered his progress after the mid-90s. watching him play in his prime, i get the sense he could have easily been an all-time great with a bit more luck and slightly different circumstances in his career(being Finnish was not exactly a boon for chances of having a great international tournament for instance). Of course, there are usually always a bunch of players we can say this of each generation, especially when the talent was more spread out.

 

[Indnyc]

The draws are lottery also. I got lucky in terms that his only relative weak spot was where my strongest one was. As you said Achilles' heel... When you go into these all-time draft games, it is pretty hard to separate so such thing can prevail making the score unfair in the end.

Brilliant team from @Gio as usual.

This.. Draws matter a lot in winning the whole thing

 

[MJJ]

13:6, wow! I understood from the comments that @Jim Beam was leading, but would've never thought just by how much.
I had both @Gio and @Arbitrium as potential draft winners

Although when you think of it, the drafts are more than often won by teams that are originally unbalanced (but can be significantly improved by 1-2 picks in the reinforcements), so if Gio and Arbitrium would've made it through the first round, they would've definitely been draft favourites (with Djalma/Cafu and van Basten/Zidane/Baggio respectively).

If I was Gio, I wouldnt leave south america immediately.

Also, you have the draft won now.

 

[Indnyc]

If I was Gio, I wouldnt leave south america immediately.

Also, you have the draft won now.

He would have pick Djalma and the draft would be over

 

[MJJ]

He would have pick Djalma and the draft would be over

Yeah thats what I would have done in his position although disagree with the draft being over, harms and moby have pretty awesome sides too.

 

[Ecstatic]

I generally write "Not surprised by the outcome" but here I have to say I'm surprised.